Seemed like a good time for talks months ago. The US has positioned itself to be a bad candidate for suggesting peace. Maybe one of the new NATO members can facilitate the process before China attempts to broker a deal.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
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Seemed like a good time for talks months ago. The US has positioned itself to be a bad candidate for suggesting peace. Maybe one of the new NATO members can facilitate the process before China attempts to broker a deal.
It would be wise to see what happens. Maybe Ukraine will drive them out completely.
But I think it’ll be what was pretty clear by last summer- a bloody stalemate that we have prolonged and wasted money on.
But I think it’ll be what was pretty clear by last summer- a bloody stalemate that we have prolonged and wasted money on.
Censorship...People have lost their minds.
consortiumnews.com
Suspended for Providing Balanced News on Ukraine
An editor at Radio New Zealand has been suspended and is under investigation for the time-honored practices of providing balanced and factual reporting, writes Tony Kevin. By Tony Kevin in Canberra Special to Consortium News On Friday The Guardian Australia website carried a news repor
consortiumnews.com
Given our intelligence did not expect a successful counter offensive, a bloody stalemate appears to be what we paid for.
Putin ally says nuclear weapons "must" be used to strike NATO countries
Vladimir Solovyov predicted that the use of tactical nukes is "inevitable" before listing targets including Germany, Poland and Slovakia.
www.newsweek.com
Russia state tv has said more insane stuff than this. They openly called for nuking the east coast a few months ago. Russian state TV are insane. But they shouldn't reflect the thoughts of Putin and his generals. They aren't that insane. In fact, if you saw Putin's speech a few days ago, he says that russia will win soon because ukraine is almost out of their own equipment. Doesn't sound like someone who is ready to launch nukes.Putin ally says nuclear weapons "must" be used to strike NATO countries
Vladimir Solovyov predicted that the use of tactical nukes is "inevitable" before listing targets including Germany, Poland and Slovakia.
You go, guys.
www.19fortyfive.com
“Have you captured a Russian tank or armored personnel carrier and are worried about how to declare it? Keep calm and continue to defend the Motherland! There is no need to declare the captured Russian tanks and other equipment, because the cost of this … does not exceed 100 living wages (UAH 248,100),” NAPC’s press service said, adding that “Thanks to the courage and victory of the defenders of the Ukrainian state, enemy military equipment usually comes to you already destroyed and disabled, which makes it impossible to evaluate it in accordance with the law On the valuation of property, property rights and professional valuation activities in Ukraine. Therefore, it is also impossible to find out how much such property costs.”
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
'Tanks Stolen': Ukraine's Farmers Keep Stealing Russian Tanks with Tractors
As the war wages on, more footage depicting heroic and unique defense efforts taken by Ukrainian civilians will hopefully surface.
www.19fortyfive.com
“Have you captured a Russian tank or armored personnel carrier and are worried about how to declare it? Keep calm and continue to defend the Motherland! There is no need to declare the captured Russian tanks and other equipment, because the cost of this … does not exceed 100 living wages (UAH 248,100),” NAPC’s press service said, adding that “Thanks to the courage and victory of the defenders of the Ukrainian state, enemy military equipment usually comes to you already destroyed and disabled, which makes it impossible to evaluate it in accordance with the law On the valuation of property, property rights and professional valuation activities in Ukraine. Therefore, it is also impossible to find out how much such property costs.”
I wonder if that rag tag group of Ukrainian amateurs that blew up the Nordstream pipeline would be willing to lend their expertise to the nation states and organizations who are having trouble finding the Titanic sub.
This article suggests the war's endgame is to a) let U's current offensive play out, and then b) reach territorial agreement of Russia getting "some" U land while U gets the security of fast track NATO membership.
"With support for the war against Russia waning in the U.S., the counteroffensive may define a new border."
"2023 will be the decisive year for the war—and that by the end of the year, support for a cease-fire as a prelude to negotiations will become too strong to resist, even if some Eastern European allies doubt the wisdom of this course. .... hard to believe that the coalition is prepared to maintain its current level of effort for a trench-warfare conflict lasting as long as World War I."
"The good news is that NATO is moving closer to agreement on such a security package as it prepares for its annual meeting next month. Although recent signals have been mixed, Mr. Biden may be open to the suggestion, promoted by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, that Ukraine could join NATO after the war without going through the lengthy and elaborate preparatory steps typically required of applicants. France, Germany and many Eastern European countries are also indicating they are open to this plan. Within this framework, it should be possible to work out the security guarantees that Ukraine would need before it joins NATO.
But why would Ukraine agree to arrangements that would probably mean the permanent loss of a substantial portion of its internationally recognized territory? The answer is U.S. domestic politics. At the beginning, support for Ukraine in the U.S. was strongly bipartisan. No longer. While Democrats continue to back current levels of assistance, the share of Republicans who believe that we are doing too much has risen steadily, from 9% in March 2022 to 44% today, according to Pew. Recently, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy rebuffed a plan backed by both Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell that would provide supplemental aid for Ukraine " Net, McCarthy is a warhawk rino, LOL.
"Now it’s clear that Europe must end at Ukraine’s border with Russia. For the peace of the world, the West must establish this border and defend it against future aggression from a nation that will never be European."
www.wsj.com
"With support for the war against Russia waning in the U.S., the counteroffensive may define a new border."
"2023 will be the decisive year for the war—and that by the end of the year, support for a cease-fire as a prelude to negotiations will become too strong to resist, even if some Eastern European allies doubt the wisdom of this course. .... hard to believe that the coalition is prepared to maintain its current level of effort for a trench-warfare conflict lasting as long as World War I."
"The good news is that NATO is moving closer to agreement on such a security package as it prepares for its annual meeting next month. Although recent signals have been mixed, Mr. Biden may be open to the suggestion, promoted by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, that Ukraine could join NATO after the war without going through the lengthy and elaborate preparatory steps typically required of applicants. France, Germany and many Eastern European countries are also indicating they are open to this plan. Within this framework, it should be possible to work out the security guarantees that Ukraine would need before it joins NATO.
But why would Ukraine agree to arrangements that would probably mean the permanent loss of a substantial portion of its internationally recognized territory? The answer is U.S. domestic politics. At the beginning, support for Ukraine in the U.S. was strongly bipartisan. No longer. While Democrats continue to back current levels of assistance, the share of Republicans who believe that we are doing too much has risen steadily, from 9% in March 2022 to 44% today, according to Pew. Recently, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy rebuffed a plan backed by both Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell that would provide supplemental aid for Ukraine " Net, McCarthy is a warhawk rino, LOL.
"Now it’s clear that Europe must end at Ukraine’s border with Russia. For the peace of the world, the West must establish this border and defend it against future aggression from a nation that will never be European."
Opinion | Ukraine Could Be Forced to Compromise
With support for the war against Russia waning in the U.S., the counteroffensive may define a new border.
www.wsj.com
You pro-war morons really f’d this one up. You let your hate of Trump cause tens of thousands of people to be killed.
Yea, the pro-Putin crowd couldn't have been happier had he overrun Ukraine killing ten of thousands along the way. They have no shame.
Support waning and a negotiated end?This article suggests the war's endgame is to a) let U's current offensive play out, and then b) reach territorial agreement of Russia getting "some" U land while U gets the security of fast track NATO membership.
"With support for the war against Russia waning in the U.S., the counteroffensive may define a new border."
"2023 will be the decisive year for the war—and that by the end of the year, support for a cease-fire as a prelude to negotiations will become too strong to resist, even if some Eastern European allies doubt the wisdom of this course. .... hard to believe that the coalition is prepared to maintain its current level of effort for a trench-warfare conflict lasting as long as World War I."
"The good news is that NATO is moving closer to agreement on such a security package as it prepares for its annual meeting next month. Although recent signals have been mixed, Mr. Biden may be open to the suggestion, promoted by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, that Ukraine could join NATO after the war without going through the lengthy and elaborate preparatory steps typically required of applicants. France, Germany and many Eastern European countries are also indicating they are open to this plan. Within this framework, it should be possible to work out the security guarantees that Ukraine would need before it joins NATO.
But why would Ukraine agree to arrangements that would probably mean the permanent loss of a substantial portion of its internationally recognized territory? The answer is U.S. domestic politics. At the beginning, support for Ukraine in the U.S. was strongly bipartisan. No longer. While Democrats continue to back current levels of assistance, the share of Republicans who believe that we are doing too much has risen steadily, from 9% in March 2022 to 44% today, according to Pew. Recently, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy rebuffed a plan backed by both Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell that would provide supplemental aid for Ukraine " Net, McCarthy is a warhawk rino, LOL.
"Now it’s clear that Europe must end at Ukraine’s border with Russia. For the peace of the world, the West must establish this border and defend it against future aggression from a nation that will never be European."
Opinion | Ukraine Could Be Forced to Compromise
With support for the war against Russia waning in the U.S., the counteroffensive may define a new border.
Sounds familiar. Did I see those thoughts in this thread months back?
If that happens, it will be because Ukraine does not perceive a probable pathway to victory.
Thats idiotic. What was the alternative? Oh yeah, allow Russia to attack and conquer a sovereign nation, overthrow its government and make a mockery of international law, borders and human decency.
I mean shit, we can’t have anyone upstaging all the hard work being done making a mockery of international law, borders and human decency at the US souther border. We’re number 1!!!!!
He’s a fool. Ignore the guy. He sees one thing and that’s it. He thinks nato comprises the world. It’s delusional at best.
Btw how this has happened twice to the tune of 6-7 billion dollars. I will tell you it’s gonna be twice what Congress appropriated because they aren’t considering the cost to replace all of the weapons we’ve sent Ukraine. Accountants don’t make 3 billion dollar errors. Especially twice.
'Going back into the pot': The Pentagon just made a stunning $6.2 billion accounting error — and it provides extra aid for Ukraine. Here's exactly what happened
The mistake has in no way impacted support for Ukraine.
And immediately the found money is spent.
us.yahoo.com
Pentagon orders AMRAAM missiles worth over $1 billion for Ukraine
The U.S. Air Force has announced that it is ordering AMRAAM missiles worth $1.15 billion from Raytheon Missiles and Defense to supply to Ukraine, the U.S. Department of Defense reported on June 20.
W/o military equipment support & what little they may gain in this attack mode, well yea.
As if you know that's where the $1B came from. LOL. If you were even half a genius.And immediately the found money is spent.
Pentagon orders AMRAAM missiles worth over $1 billion for Ukraine
The U.S. Air Force has announced that it is ordering AMRAAM missiles worth $1.15 billion from Raytheon Missiles and Defense to supply to Ukraine, the U.S. Department of Defense reported on June 20.
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How much “military support” do you think they would need to defeat Russia and push them out?
I 100% know that’s where the money came from. It’s all the same 50 billion pot Congress appropriated. You don’t get that?
That doesn't even make sense. Our treasonous "leaders" are allowing this to happen on purpose. That isn't the case in Ukraine so your overly clever post quickly becomes ignorant babble.
Your post claimed it was from the $6B revision to value. Yet you state otherwise here..
The alternative is realizing when you can’t win and cutting your losses.
The problem for Ukraine is the east has been like a laboratory and Russia is much much more efficient now tactically. I think though we are past the point of putting the genie back in the bottle. Russia has framed it as a war against NATO and the west to their people and NATO. I think Ukraine would have to give up territory with out a doubt and agree to regime change for Russia to even start to listen.
Gotcha. Our treasonous leaders are sacrificing the United States and intentionally allowing the border to be overrun, but we need to trust that our treasonous leaders are doing the right thing “protecting the sovereignty” of a podunk foreign country at the cost of $100+ billion because Russia taking over a small sliver of a shithole country you couldn’t find on a map two years ago is the end of democracy in the world.
Seems like if the leaders of the US are committing treason like you allege, saving the US would be a bigger priority than saving Ukraine, and maybe you’d stop to wonder if those treasonous leaders actually have the best intentions.
Girkin and Prigozhin would disagree with that assessment, they both predict a Russian loss.
Team DeSantis as well but he needs to clarify and lay out a consistent roadmap/plan on A.) Ending the war or B.) A strategy for a Ukrainian victory, or a combination of A & B.
He’s said no American boots on the ground but that’s about all I’ve heard from him.
If I'm reading you right, so regardless of what the current Ukraine government concedes, you think Russia will keep fighting unless Zelensky's government is replaced with one more friendly to Russia?
Is this the end for Putin, Shoigu, and friends? Or total BS? We'll find put soon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66005256
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66005256
He wants Shoigus job. And for all intents and purposes he’s right about Shoigu and the Russian military leaders. I’ll say this though. The 25000 he has under his wings as he says are the felons and rejects from the prisons. He doesn’t have much left in the way of skilled fighters I wouldn’t be surprised if the FSB and Russian military hunt him down and kill him and his prison mercenary group
It’s not what I think that’s according to Russian demands. Doubtful they come off of that as that is the primary reason for this war. Denazification means regime change.
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