The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
I'm not serious with clowns like you, that much is true. Get your head out of Putins butt. Sounds like you need to send a rescue rope for your brother too.
Dude you’re entire schtick is based on your ignorance of the world. I mean hence you starting and naming the thread what you did. You can’t live up to your own expectations. I’ve read how you communicate with others. You either ass kiss or youre like the guy who continuously acts out in class because he can’t keep up. It’s classic behavior for people who feel inferior I’ve seen it a thousand times as a teacher.
And from a point of substance. Putin could get whacked tonight and idgaf. You’re so eaten up with Putin man. You kept saying “he ll be dead by Christmas”. It’s friggin June dude. He’s in youre head like trump in a libs.
Uhhh, the whole “Christmas” thing I think is true, buuut,
I don’t think BigBluFanGa specified which Christmas would post-date Putin’s death.
So, we have major competing predictions from the first Ukraine Thread: (1) Nuclear War (at an unspecified date), and (2) Putin dying prior to Christmas (of an unspecified year).
Sounds like we should take some wagers!!
BUT, if Putin dies on December 24th because of a Nuclear War, it’s a Push!!!!
At least our discussions have not devolved to the dreaded “Cat-In-The-Hat” level!
[I have always preferred Green Eggs and Ham, anyhow.].
You wanna talk policy? You want to talk substance? I’m down. I’m not down for the constant bs that derails educated discourse. You want to act like a child. I can talk to you like a child. It’s your choice ultimately.
Your giving that carrot too much credit
I’ve given you a specific time period. 3-5 years before there is a nuclear exchange. Im not a believer that there will ever be an all out nuke exchange and I believe nuclear winter is the stuff of science fiction. There have been some 2000 nuclear tests and it doesn’t seemed to have had a negative effect on the planet. A lot of people will die as a result without a doubt and civilization turned on its head.
That is probably a bit liberal an estimate given irans ability to ramp up enrichment to 90%. They have enough fissile material on hand to build a bomb. If Israel doesn’t stop them they will use it. Man I’m looking at this conflict on a global scale. The Russian Ukrainian war that continues to escalate is only one factor. You think there is going to be some kind of halt to the global escalations? What’s gonna prompt it? Israel would use nukes before any other country. That I am certain. They have the hairiest of triggers. They are not bound by any treaty, they have no obligation to not use them as the USA asserts upon all other nations. If you want to keep your eyes shut then be my guest. You want to mock me? That’s what makes you feel like a man? Whatever. I am speaking the truth here. And since my prediction what’s happened? Russia and Iran have become so close there is no daylight. Not to mention the Israelis have stopped warning Russia of strikes against hezbollah targets in Syria.
We are in the most dangerous time in human history. The world is in upheaval after a killer virus that has ruined many economies globally. Tech is being built without knowing the consequences. There are weapons that can now wipe out cities. When economies tank under the stress of debt you think that’s gonna de-escalate things? They survive on government spending. Be honest with yourself. And hack let’s apply common sense here. If there is unchecked escalation where does it end?
Btw your boy made it clear which Christmas as I counted down the days. So yeah it was also specified
You are correct. Then add in the escalation of the ongoing open lukewarm war and it doesn't even come close to anything halfway worth this level of cost or risk.
Well, let’s me say this: if there is a huge exchange of nuclear weapons. even should we both survive, the internet will be down until after I die, so you won’t be able to say, “told you so!”
And until then . . . .
As to your prediction, ie, “limited” nuclear war, focusing on the Middle East, I suspect Israel can achieve conventionally about anything they want in the Middle East without resorting to nuclear weaponry.
We’ve lived for more than 70 years with the “Sword of Damocles” at our collective necks and I have some hope that all the actors on the world stage are rational enough to avoid the tripwires that could end it all.
“That’s what makes you feel like a man? Whatever. I am speaking the truth here.”
No!
I might have some fun with you, but it makes me feel like an overbearing intellect, which I have been since shortly after birth. You taught school and make frequent prideful reference to it. So who was I in your classroom recollection?
I was the obnoxious little bastard who thought he was smarter than you and wasn’t satisfied until I had proved it!
And then I proved it!
This “admission” is completely independent of “feel[ing] like a man.” That’s what football and NASCAR are for!!
I do believe you speak.from a legitimate conviction as to your fears and dread of Nuclear War. And I both think and hope you are wrong.
Where you really “tore your shirt with me” on the old thread was a lengthy, rambling post questioning the ultimate value of our Republic approaching its 250th’year. You denigrated the value of defending our freedoms, pointing out some obvious flaws.
No, we will never be perfect. If there is “perfection,” anywhere, it is on a Platonic or Godly level.
But I think Churchill was right: our system is the worst in the World, until you consider all the rest!
When I was at the tender age of 8, in a tiny family graveyard on a farm in Central Kentucky, my father pointed to the graves and told the stories of my Great, great, great Grandfather (a native Virginian who fought in the Revolution) my Great-great grandfather (a farmer and a school teacher) and my Great grandfather.(a Union Soldier who volunteered and marched with Sherman from Atlanta to Savanah to crush the slave system he had inherited).
I inherited the cockiness and intellect of men who not only owned a whole lot of land, but “owned” a whole lot of people.
And then “rebelled” against that very system, by wearing Blue.
You might not think the maintenance of representative government is worth the risk of war, the heartbreak of potential failure, or the massive cost of defense. You have a far broader level of international experience than I have, but I will stand upon my convictions that Liberty is worth every sacrifice made since my English forebears developed the foggy notion, and began the slow evolutionary process we continued through centuries of war and contentious and expensive peace.
Upon those centuries of work and hope, of evolution, Revolution and Civil War
I retain hope in our future, and upon the values I have learned and inherited, I will always take my stand!!
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Damn.
Wagner Chief Prigozhin has been reading some Stokley Carmichael!
“
But the symbolism of striking Rublyovka was not lost on Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the Russian private military company Wagner.
In response to a question from a journalist, the Wagner boss launched into an expletive-laden rant against the leaders of the Russian Ministry of Defense following the strikes.
Lev Sergeev/Reuters
A view shows a damaged multi-storey apartment block following a reported drone attack in Moscow, Russia.
“Why the f*** are you allowing these drones to hit Moscow?” he said. “The fact that they are flying to Rublyovka to your home, to hell with that! Let your houses burn.”
Burn, Baby, Burn!
amp.cnn.com
Wagner Chief Prigozhin has been reading some Stokley Carmichael!
“
But the symbolism of striking Rublyovka was not lost on Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the Russian private military company Wagner.
In response to a question from a journalist, the Wagner boss launched into an expletive-laden rant against the leaders of the Russian Ministry of Defense following the strikes.
Lev Sergeev/Reuters
A view shows a damaged multi-storey apartment block following a reported drone attack in Moscow, Russia.
“Why the f*** are you allowing these drones to hit Moscow?” he said. “The fact that they are flying to Rublyovka to your home, to hell with that! Let your houses burn.”
Burn, Baby, Burn!
Drone strikes in capital bring Ukraine war to Russia | CNN
It’s a familiar routine for Ukrainians: Explosions ring out in the city, then videos emerge of drones overhead. Air defenses spring into action, and the authorities put out preliminary statements confirming a strike.
Uh, as an American elite, let me say that I want a Ukrainian offensive, quite soon.
And I’ll go out on a limb, just a tad, and predict a major move beginning on June 6th!!
Zelenski has been pretty historically relevant in speeches to Congress and Parliment, making frequent use of each counties’ historical road markers.
June 6th would be a pretty symbolic date for the offensive!!
You might be surprised to know that many union soldiers from Kentucky fought to KEEP slavery. They thought if they stayed with the union they would be allowed to keep their slaves, rather than try a risky and untried confederacy that would mean certain death to slavery if they lost the war. That civil war is very nuanced.
I already agreed that I was wrong on that. I can actually admit my mistakes. You and your posse NEVER admit being wrong, its simply hasn't happened yet.
You're the one who spews Putins propaganda, almost verbatim at times. I never do, ever.
Explain.
True.
My Great Grandfather’s best friend was a slave who’d been raised with him, the same age.
He volunteered in ‘63, after the Emancipation Proclaimation, and Lincoln’s address proclaiming a “new birth of freedom,” for the nation.
I know the limits of the EP, but the future was pretty clear from that point forward: upon it’s issuance, future Justice John Marshall Harlan considered resigning his Union commission. He lived to be the strongest advocate of Civil Rights for African descendants, being both the only Southerner, and former slave owner on the US Supreme Court.
The whole era was marked by complexity and there were few, absolute, clear-cut demarcations.
The Confederate commander of Vicksburg was a Pennsylvanian. The Union “Rock of Chickamagua,” General Thomas, was from a huge plantation in Virginia.
What regiment did your Great grandfather serve in?
Here's my GGGG grandfather swearing allegiance to the union in 1865. A poor farmboy from Barren County!
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We ordered his federal papers in 1988, and I have them, but do not remember the regiment.
The “papers” were from his application for the “retirement” money paid to the GAR. As I recall, he filed in the early 20th Century, like in 1908. He lived until 1925, and age 92 . . . he was 29 years old when he volunteered . . . depression from a rare 19th Century divorce helping him make the plunge. He remarried after the war and had eight kids, my Grand Dad the youngest, born in 1890 (till 1980).
I know that he never spoke of Chattanooga (or Chickamagua), and the experiences he related to my grandad, his youngest son who died in 1980, were apparently post-Chattanooga, from North Georgia until Savannah.
His “papers” revealed he became sick late in the March to the Sea, when their food supply dwindled to rice near the coast.
He told my grandfather of helping tie “Lincoln Neckties” with heated Southern rolling stock, but also claimed to have never seen a major, conventional battle, instead, seeing fast hit-and-run raids, and persistent clearing of downed trees often booby-trapped with some kind of explosives.
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You know, its pretty weird to think about it. My family was shooting your family with muskets 160 years ago. My kin from Barren county were all in those trenches in GA in 1864 and 65. Defending it from Sherman.
Yeah, but those that survived had some hellacious reunions!
And shared some tobacco and such even during the war, in down-time!
Oh, my GGD had 4 first cousins from Anderson County in the Confederate “Orphan Brigade.” Three were killed at Shiloh. There is still a huge monument in front of the old Courthouse showing the massive death toll on Anderson County . . . more than 100. More than Mercer County had in WWII!! (Bataan and Jap captivity cost Mercer 29 fatalities, along with many more elsewhere in the war . . . 29 of their Guard Unit of 58!).
Yep. I had 2 uncles, a Grandfather, and 3 cousins in the orphan brigade. All in the 6thKY. Another GGGG grandfather was in the 28thTN and a GGG uncle rode with Forrest in the 8th/13th TN Cavalry.
2nd Cousin Pvt. George Peden. Killed in 1864 in GA. 6th Kentucky Orphan Brigade.
Well, Forrest was a bad Mamma-Jamma!
A former slave of his delighted in describing his tactics in exaggerated “Ebonics” . . . “General Forrest believed in coming the firstest with the mostest!”
My God, had the War lasted another month, you wouldn’t be here, RR!!
Yeah. My Uncle was captured in 1864 when he went back home to Jackson County on furlough. Was holed up in Louisville in a union jail. Forrest kept a 12 star battle flag because he was mad at Kentucky for not joining the rest of the south.
Let’s join in shared celebration they didn’t always us hit their mark(s)!!!
No you’re an intellect. I’ve known since I met up with you on the FB forum. And tbh that post you made is the most rational reasoning I’ve read for supporting Ukraine. It would get a ton of clicks if it were a blog post or even for a media outlet.
As for which student you would be. Probably the one who day one pisses me off but by the end of the semester we re having regular conversations about the content because not only would you seek knowledge you also would want to challenge and debate on a level your peers didn’t offer. Especially since history seems to be a passion for you. You may get under my skin at first but undoubtedly we would have a positive impact on each other. Im not ashamed to say that I have learned alot from kids. I love dynamic divergent thinkers and you seem to fit that bill based on that post.
Thanks for sharing your family history and you’re right. Those willing to fight for liberty should do so. I have some skepticism/trepidation of our government though. And it’s because of our adventures in Iraq and turning Afghanistan to the taliban. It’s the way we pulled out of Iraq and left a void filled by isis using our military hardware left behind. Billions left to enemies. I have a mistrust of our lawmakers to allocate money to the proper causes for our national defense. I also have concern that our leaders are great at getting into conflicts, however, have no exit strategy. That’s why I ask about escalation in the face of so many conflicts occurring at once.
I have total empathy for the Ukrainian people but similarly I want the war to end. Our freedom I would never denigrate. I will criticize politicians for bad decisions but at the end of the day I want our republic to be strong. More cohesive and more fiscally responsible and mostly stay out of foreign conflicts for a time.
My dad and the rest of my family escaped Egypt and nassar in the 60s for France then the USA. My mothers family left germany sometime in the 30s. I don’t have as extensive knowledge of them because they were uprooted and the family divided. Whereas my dads family I can trace back about 1000 years with specificity but assuming some things can trace back thousands of years due to surnames and the familial meaning in Judaism. So I’m no fan of authoritarian rule. My parents escaped it and it’s fresh in my dna memory. I cant like Russia the way some of you think I do because Iran threatens my ancestral homeland. I’m certain of a quid pro quo between Russia and Iran for those drones and it concerns me that it benefits their nuclear program. All of this will come to light soon.
I wish for a fair government in Ukraine but I’m not willing to risk my family’s freedom for them by pushing Russia to direct conflict. Israel is another story. Not because I’m an evangelical end times whatever rather I have skin in the game. many many family members in Israel who live in fear like you can’t imagine. When I visit Jerusalem I stay at the ymca hotel. I know it sounds crazy. One trip to Israel the French consulate across the street set off fireworks. The result was catastrophic. Israelis screaming in panic, hiding under whatever they could because they thought they were being attacked.
You know I think it’s that connection to Israel that sours me a little on Ukraines cause in the east. Israel since they were attacked by Syria; Jordan and Egypt in the late 60s Israel since has been pushed by the USA and Europe to “give land for peace”. Israel gave up a major buffer in the Sinai with Egypt and the golan heights in syria. The difference is of course it’s the Middle East and the hitler connotation that still raw in Europe supersedes the policy implemented in Israel. In europe the connotation is appeasement in Israel is for the sake of peace. That double standard bothers me. And yes I know Israel took that land through conflict but they not only extracted the invading militaries on all fronts they were able to seize territory to secure its future. In my view that was a legitimate seizure of land.
I appreciate the positive dialogue hack. Hope we can win 10 games this regular season and beat UT and UF.
I had a cousin from Jackson-Breathitt that got in a bad feud and left the County, to join the first army he encountered . . . it was also a Union Army. He just wanted to find a safer place than Jackson-Breathitt, and survived the War.
Jackson County, TN is what I was talking about. My direct line from my dad runs straight down to Jackson County TN. GGG Grandfather came up here in the 1890s. I was almost a vol! But I consider TN my 2nd home state. Would never cheer for those damn vols though.
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Putin i give zero shit about. I speak my mind. I don’t buy anything the media peddles man. In my view it’s two brothers at war and we should stay out of it because A. We have spent enough on war for many years and Europe is more than capable to deal with this. and B. I want the war to end. Like I said in my other post Israel since the 70s has been expected to give up some territory for peace why is Ukraine immune to that policy? There’s a lot that doesn’t make sense about this war and our involvement for instance what’s our limit on support and our exit strategy? These are problems the usa has had in every war since Korea.
Circling back to Putin. Go dig up the original thread not the previous but the one merged into the poltical thread. Prewar I knew Putin was a tyrant and would attack. I even shared what some of my Russian friends felt that Putin would have a slip and fall in the shower. The thing is Putin isn’t going anywhere and he’s who we have to deal with on several fronts. From Iran to Syria to Ukraine. At the same time though I know Putin is a fairly rational actor. He’s brutal but he probably is the most stable leader we can hope for in Russia right now. It’s like hacks Churchill quote “our system is the worst in the World, until you consider all the rest!” this line of thinking can be applied to Russian leader ship. Consider the rest….
I had a self-described “radical leftist”
economics professor in college: not a “Marxist,” but a follower of Thorstein Veblen, a socialist thinker who suggested engineers and developers of technology should rule, perhaps foreseeing the “positives” of AI as early as the late 19th/early 20th Centuries.
But he was close enough to a Marxist that I had to take him on, every-damn-day!!!
I saw him in the post-office and asked if he was offended by my debates. He laughed, said he was from Michigan, and that typical Southern politeness and discretion sickened him: he loved the rough and tumble of debate and argument.
So he got a lot more of it.
So, ironically, 15 years ago, an elderly couple in Danville that had taken he and his Yankee wife “in” in the early 70’s when he started at Centre, died without children, leaving their estate (half-a-million) to my old Lefty bud!
I did the Estate work!
As we left the District Court the last time, I whispered to him that he was “the richest Goddamned Commie, I’d ever met!”
He loved it!
Israel for me has always been like Northern Ireland: I keep quiet for fear somebody gets shot in those places if I open my mouth and f@$k something up. I’ve always considered myself a Southern-Christian Zionist on the order of Harry Truman, and ethnically a blend of Scotch, Irish and English. But the troubles and histories in those places run so damn deep it’s hard to comprehend.
My ethno-centric memory runs back to Good Queen Bess (my Dad always said “Good” Queen Bess killed the Catholics, but “Bloody Mary” killed the Protestants . . . and then he’d laugh from the absurdity of English Christian’s killing each other like so many pigs).
Our modern existence is tough. But we’ve had hideous times, prior. One out of sixteen Americans died between 1861 to 1865. England expelled her Jewish population, in the 12/13th Centurues, many of whom settled in the comparatively “liberal” Germanic areas of Europe. This left Christians without Jews to persecute in England, so they went after each other for 400 years, and seven Centuries later, beginning in 1860, through the 1930’s, Germany developed a bizarre, mid-evilish paranoia about Jews. A great book to try to understand the unfathonable is Hitler’s Willing Executioners, a doctoral thesis converted to an encyclopedic examination of the rise of German anti-semitism. The upshot of that book: from 1860 through 1930, there were thousands of publications, books and articles in Germany pushing an “eliminationist” policy, most suggesting forced exportation of Jews, and some suggesting they be killed.
The Germans were so warped by their beliefs that the a national Presbyterian organization in Germany wrote a letter to their American equals (fully published in the book), in 1940, casually mentioning in an offhand manner, “we are liquidating our Jewish problem.”
The American Presbyterian Church wrote back, suggesting there must be a mistake, and that the German letter suggested genocide. The Germans never wrote back!
The author of Hitler’s Willing Executioners quotes dozens of examples of the Nazi government having to restrain their population from going too far in violence against Jews, for fear of economic consequences. By page 40, he declares, “I will stop referring to the ‘Nazies,’and use the proper names of those that carried out the Holocaust . . . it was the Germans.” He then proves his thesis in 300 pages.
I agree that power must be distrusted. But our system is the best for its limitation: you might be a crook, and make the White House, but not for long. Hence the Federalist (56?) quotation “if men were angels, or angels governed men, checks and balances would be unnecessary. . . .”
We need Congressional term limits, along with our limits on Presidential terms.
Anyhow, as bad as things are, they could be far worse.
Putin is not Hitler, but he’s a self-described opponent of the West, trained by the KGB, who has awkwardly tried to reclaim the mantle of the mother Church of Eastern Orthodoxy. My one good Russian friend warned me in the early 2000’s to never trust Putin. He thought he was nothing more than a thug. Time has proved my friend right!
If I could stop the war in Ukraine, by snapping my fingers, I would have done so on February 24, 2022. Lacking that power, I must exercise my moral and rational judgment, such as I have to the circumstances.
Ukraine is far from a perfect Republican utopia, but it is a victim of invasion by a far more hideous form of government than has developed in Kiev. If our assistance merely weakens the aggressor, we will have followed the Centuries-old grand strategy of our closest national forebears, the English. They have consistently supported the perceived lesser power in European conflicts, pragmatically preventing the greater power victory to then target England as the next victim.
In addition to this cynical, pragmatic self-preservation, the Ukrainians for all their warts, have the clear-cut moral high ground. They might be bastards, but they did not invade Russia.
Can the Ukrainians win?
There are always upsets!
I am a Kentucky football fan!!
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My Mom was from Morristown, Tennessee. She had the good fortune of going to Berea College, and soon after meeting a Ky. State Trooper.
2/3rds of my kin wear Orange!
Everyone says I have a deeper Southern accent than most Kentuckians. I probably sound more like Hamblin County, Tennessee!!
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This makes sense. To give up your slaves, for most southerners, meant giving up most everything you had. One of the reasons Washington freed his slaves as part of his will.
Lol.
A hundred-fiddy-grand for a liberal arts education and what do you get?
Four jackass nerds up ‘till 5:00 a.m. arguing bullsh!t!!
Damn!
I had no idea that existed!
Oh . . . Fort “Thomas,” . . . I guess I know where it got it’s name, now!
