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Taylor Swift - Would we have even heard of her if she existed in the 70's?

Queens of the Stone Age are a all timer band for me. Love those guys and their current drummer is one of my favorites all time.

You mention 3 chord structure not working in the 70s as if she wouldn't cater her music to what is popular at the time. This is why this is so fool hardy.

Would "Bad Blood" be a hit in 1974? Probably not. Most people would listen to a song like that and wonder how some of those sounds are possible.

The top song of 1974, according to Google, was The Way We Were by Streisand which featured an Orchestra. Would Taylor swift have used an Orchestra back then? Maybe? I bet she would also implement more complex chord structures like you find in another top hit of 1974, John Denvers Annie's Song.

All that said, the whole thread just reads like sour grapes. The woman is wildly popular and has a gigantic fan base. Something she is doing resonates with her fans.

Also, Philadelphia was heavily in the house last night at the super bowl. Those animals booed Santa Claus and have a statue of rocky balboa. I'm not taking their opinion on anything seriously.
I agree on QOTSA.

We can certainly agree to disagree. She is certainly a Grade A marketer. Songwriter - lyrically? Her stuff certainly must resonate with teenage females. Musically? Nah. Steely Dan or PFloyd would laugh at her while handing her a crayon. She sails, surrounded in a sea of mediocrity. There is NO competition. There is no actual comparison for her to pale to in comparison. She is the one eyed woman in the land of the blind. The 70's or 80's would not be the best era to drop her into. Too many sighted. JMHO.
 
I agree on QOTSA.

We can certainly agree to disagree. She is certainly a Grade A marketer. Songwriter - lyrically? Her stuff certainly must resonate with teenage females. Musically? Nah. Steely Dan or PFloyd would laugh at her while handing her a crayon. She sails, surrounded in a sea of mediocrity. There is NO competition. There is no actual comparison for her to pale to in comparison. She is the one eyed woman in the land of the blind. The 70's or 80's would not be the best era to drop her into. Too many sighted. JMHO.

Steely Dan and Pink Floyd would run circles around a pop star? No shit? They ran circles musically around the pop stars of the 70s too.

Its weird because the 70s wasn't the era of solo female vocalists, so it's another moot point to make. If Taylor Swift was popular in the 70s, it's unlikely that she's doing it alone. Abba, Fleetwood Mac, etc would have been the required route. In the same way Stevie depended on Lindsey to make the music fit her lyrics, solo pop artist now collaborate with producers.

All indications point to TS writing her own music and lyrics in an era where you just don't see that anymore. Her competition walks into the studio to prepared music. It's hyper commercialized and the fact that TS (originally) wasn't so prepackaged was likely something that initially attracted fans to her. And, as a parent to a daughter, the fact that she didn't immediately decide to try to sell her body rather than her music was a nice change of pace.

Having had to listen to more TS than I care to admit, I preferred her singer/songwriter/country phase over the more bubblegum pop stuff she has done of late. But none of it is revolutionary.

She's not a better artist than Stevie, but she is dominating a period in time when ears can listen to nearly anything they want with a simple click of a button and that is remarkable.

Which brings me to another point. Music is more diluted than it's ever been. I the 70s you listened to the radio. It was likely the sole source of new music for a ton of fans. It was infinitely harder to be heard and make it then, but there seemed to be a lot less competition for attention once you got through that initial barrier. If there's an artist that can perform and create music better than TS, all they need is a PC and social media to get started.

So while the competition isnt as stiff, the pure number of artists TS competes with is much larger.
 
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Steely Dan and Pink Floyd would run circles around a pop star? No shit? They ran circles musically around the pop stars of the 70s too.

Its weird because the 70s wasn't the era of solo female vocalists, so it's another moot point to make. If Taylor Swift was popular in the 70s, it's unlikely that she's doing it alone. Abba, Fleetwood Mac, etc would have been the required route. In the same way Stevie depended on Lindsey to make the music fit her lyrics, solo pop artist now collaborate with producers.
It was pretty much exactly my point. You didn't mention the Wilson sisters. It was the BAND and not the pop star era. Would she have become Debbi Harry? Very possibly...but as a "Blondie." Now we may be finding some common ground.

Would she succeed as a vocalist in the 70's? Her voice is not that good or at least as those you and I have referenced. Not even close. Christine McVei level, maybe. She also is not as attractive as those above either which matters. I just don't think she could crack through on her own doing what she does now. In the '70s you did not typically find female acts at the top of the charts. Spare me Debbie Boone, Carol King, Aretha etc.... They are female artists who had amazing voices that didnt require a video to sell the song.

Now female music is all there is. No bands. (I can cherry pick random KPop or boy bands too). The industry is different today and not in a good way.
 
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Linda Ronstadt
Aretha Franklin
Carly Simon
Dolly Parton
Olivia Newton-John
Diana Ross
Roberta Flack
Carole King
Loretta Lynn

....all were in their prime in the 70's, and their singles and awards were numerous.

You aren't very good at this.
His point is universally accepted in the music industry. If you look at the charts it really was an era dominated by male acts, especially bands. Were there some female acts that cracked through...certainly. Your list has a lot of them.
 
His point is universally accepted in the music industry. If you look at the charts it really was an era dominated by male acts, especially bands. Were there some female acts that cracked through...certainly. Your list has a lot of them.

You can say that about every era, but that wasn't his statement. The 70's were iconic for epic female vocalists, and I left out many. They definitely didn't just "crack through".
 
You can say that about every era, but that wasn't his statement. The 70's were iconic for epic female vocalists, and I left out many. They definitely didn't just "crack through".

If the 70's were iconic for female vocalists, the public didn't get that message. Based on record sales, the top 20 artists of the 70's were:

Pink Floyd 176m
Eagles 169m
Led Zeppelin 144m
Queen 140m
Elton John137m
Abba (As mentioned above) 132m
Bob Marley 118m
Rod Stewart 110m
Bee Gees109m
Eric Clapton 102m
Fleetwood Mac (again, see above) 100m
Santana 76m
Billy Joel 75m
Rolling Stones 74m
AC/DC 73m
David Bowie 72m
Deep Purple 71m
Paul McCartney 69m
Black Sabbath 64m
Aerosmith 63m

Your first solo female artist to make the list, which I also mentioned, was Barbara Streisand at 25 (57m). Diana Ross is 44 (26m) and Aretha Franklin moved 17m for 48th place.

So, while it was certainly the case that there were solo female acts in the 70's the public was more interested in solo male artists or bands.

It would be 1986 (the first era of female solo artists, in my opinion) that a female solo act actually topped the charts and moved the most records with Whitney Houston's self titled album.

You know you can just look this stuff up rather than guessing, right?
 
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I'll go even further. If you just look at individual record sales only Carole King had a top 50 selling album in the 70's with Tapestry. And past that, only Linda Ronstadt had a top 100 selling album and it was a greatest hits album. That doesn't scream PRIME to me.

The only other female to crack the top 150 for record sales was Janis Joplin, who might actually be the best case study for TS making it in the 70's given how, um, unique she was. Not the best singer, not the best looking, but the music was good, it just worked.

Edit : Unless you're making some weird argument about the quality of their music being the best that I'm not understanding. Aretha Franklin's best selling album came in 1972 with Amazing Grace. It sold 2m copies. I'm not arguing about whether Aretha, Carole King, Carly Simon, etc. are good artists. I'm arguing what was popular in the 70's. Solo lead female artists were not that.
 
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Donna Summer had a nice run, wrote some of her own songs.

I actually really enjoy Donna Summers. The 70's, by comparison, didn't appreciate her music by the same token. She peaked at 2.5m records sold for her album Bad Girls. It's a drop in the bucket compared to the top 100 artists of the decade.

Again, I'm not discrediting artists for the quality of their music. I'm simply stating facts as they exist about what was most popular in the 70's. Solo female artists didn't move the charts back then like they do now.
 
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What is all this talk about album sales? Most of the female artists you are talking about (Donna Summer the best example) were singles artists. She had several number one singles though. People weren’t buying her albums like they were Pink Floyd or Boston because those were album acts. I mean it is just a dumb comparison.

At the end of the day, focusing on album sales, Grammy awards, hit singles, etc is the wrong way to look at it. Taylor Swift is a cultural phenomenon. She is not just the most successful music star currently, she is the most successful entertainment star. She has fame and celebrity that is almost unprecedented. On a level of Elvis and The Beatles. And some of you are claiming she would be unknown or some minor star in another era.
 
Of the top 10 Billboard 100 singles (averaged based on radio play/45's for the entire year) from 1970-1979, solo female artists made up 14 of 100 top 10 singles.

No one is saying they didn't have hits. No one is saying they weren't popular. No one is saying that by comparing them to "album artists" they are somehow less popular. I'm just saying that, by comparison to today, that era wasn't Solo Female artist dominated in the same way that it is now with 7 out of the top 10 singles at any given time being one of Doja Cat, Nikki Minaj, Taylor Swift, Chappell Roan, Sza, etc. etc.

That's it.
 
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Somewhat OT, but I was surfing YouTube the other day and saw two great videos of Linda Rondstadt, a studio version of Tracks of My Tears, and a live version of Desperado. She was not only a great singer, but also pretty much a smoke show. At least IMO.

Probably everyone knows that her first big hit was Different Drum (Stone Poneys) written by Mike Nesmith of the Monkees.
 
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I actually really enjoy Donna Summers. The 70's, by comparison, didn't appreciate her music by the same token. She peaked at 2.5m records sold for her album Bad Girls. It's a drop in the bucket compared to the top 100 artists of the decade.

Again, I'm not discrediting artists for the quality of their music. I'm simply stating facts as they exist about what was most popular in the 70's. Solo female artists didn't move the charts back then like they do now.
I’d like to know how singles did because that was a big deal back then.
 
I’d like to know how singles did because that was a big deal back then.

Donna Summers led the solo female artist number 1 singles in the 70's with five. Hot Stuff, Macarthur Park, I Feel Love, Bad Girls, Love to Love you Baby. She was definitely one of the biggest stars of the 70's, particularly as it shifted to disco.

Solo female artists did well with top singles in the 70s with Diana Ross, Donna Summers and Barbara Streisand all in the top 10 for Number 1 singles but the era was pretty much dominated by the Bee Gees, Stevie Wonder, Elton John, John Denver, Rod Stewart, etc.

The culture of music changed drastically though, and now nearly every top streamed artist is a solo artist and the majority are women (with the exception of BTS).
 
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I'm a Donna Summer fan and sometimes listen to her Greatest Hits in my car. But yes; mostly singles. I believe how long she held that note in Dim All the Lights was some kind of record at the time for a pop song. Killer voice. She did Broadway musicals before going into disco. (not my most manly post ever)
 
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It was pretty much exactly my point. You didn't mention the Wilson sisters. It was the BAND and not the pop star era. Would she have become Debbi Harry? Very possibly...but as a "Blondie." Now we may be finding some common ground.

Would she succeed as a vocalist in the 70's? Her voice is not that good or at least as those you and I have referenced. Not even close. Christine McVei level, maybe. She also is not as attractive as those above either which matters. I just don't think she could crack through on her own doing what she does now. In the '70s you did not typically find female acts at the top of the charts. Spare me Debbie Boone, Carol King, Aretha etc.... They are female artists who had amazing voices that didnt require a video to sell the song.

Now female music is all there is. No bands. (I can cherry pick random KPop or boy bands too). The industry is different today and not in a good way.
McVie>>>>>>>>>Stevie
 
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Of the top 10 Billboard 100 singles (averaged based on radio play/45's for the entire year) from 1970-1979, solo female artists made up 14 of 100 top 10 singles.

No one is saying they didn't have hits. No one is saying they weren't popular. No one is saying that by comparing them to "album artists" they are somehow less popular. I'm just saying that, by comparison to today, that era wasn't Solo Female artist dominated in the same way that it is now with 7 out of the top 10 singles at any given time being one of Doja Cat, Nikki Minaj, Taylor Swift, Chappell Roan, Sza, etc. etc.

That's it.

Exactly. The ratio of 14/100 has totally flipped today. Also the same can be said about the number of Bands with the singles then to now. There are so few bands now that the script has flipped there too.

I liked your comparison with Janis Joplin. But I think Janis deserves a bit more credit. She had a unique, powerful voice. She didn't have to be seen on MTV. In that era she would have had to get a makeover to become more than a curiosity. Tracy Chapman. TS just doesnt seem to have anything about her voice to make her stand out. People embrace a unique voice, back to Dylan, Joplin, Geddie Lee, Bon Scott, if the music fits.
 
Yeah, no one would have heard of her had she been competing against bangers like this that went #1 in the 70's.



Oh my god that song. I had it on my Kazaa or Shazam or whatever the hell song sharing program I was on in college and it was mislabeled as Janis Joplin. Either way we would get high as hell and listen to it in the regular rotation. Was a banger. Always thought it was Janis Joplin until seeing your post. I mainly listen to EDM which wasn’t even a genre of music up until 20 years ago. Would make people’s ears bleed in this thread I would suspect.
 
As a 40 year veteran bar band guitarist, I gotta laugh hard at those measuring "talent" with "record sales".
 
As a 40 year veteran bar band guitarist, I gotta laugh hard at those measuring "talent" with "record sales".
Agreed. it reminds me of when you read an obituary of a music artist in a mainstream publication and it often begins with the number of Grammys they won. Like - "Leonard Cohen, songwriter who won 2 Grammys, died yesterday".
 
You told on yourself immediately by listing how may # 1 hits an artist has. You may as well go on and confess that Beyonce deserved the country grammy this year.

You better stick to bubble gum pop and not try to bring actual musicianship to the table.
So..The Beatles, Elvis, MJ, were not good? They are the top-selling male artists of all time.
I prefer rock ‘n’ roll to rap and whatever else is played today, but I can’t deny that the most successful artists today are good at what they do, even if I happen not to like what they do.
 
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As a 40 year veteran bar band guitarist, I gotta laugh hard at those measuring "talent" with "record sales".

Except no one did that. If you can't measure popularity by record sales, tour figures and business acumen, I don't know how else to have this conversation. Some of the biggest metal bands played shitty blues riffs they stole and added distortion. The first major rap groups just sampled music from the previous decades. Nearly every piece of new music is stolen from previous iterations. When it isn't people hate it and say it doesn't appeal to them because it's different/weird.

You can argue about TS's talent all you want. I'm not doing that, I'm saying that it's ridiculous to think she wouldn't be known (not #1 best selling artist of all time, just known) in the 70's.

It's about as dumb as HMT5000 saying she has a small fan base.
 
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I just realized Cole made fun of Wayne for listing the number of No. 1 hits/awards TS has but used the same metric to try to prove the 70's was about iconic female singers.

Always talking out of both sides of his mouth.
 
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