Which dictionary do you use? Mine clearly distinguishes between salary and expense. Do you honestly think Sandy Bell would have pursued his eligibility if he was collecting a salary. To you all money might be the same but to the rest of the world, how it's spent makes a huge difference. If you expect to ever understand eligibility of today's top athletes, you will have to get a better grasp of the definitions.
Skal eligible
- Thread starter melvinm
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Which dictionary do you use? Mine clearly distinguishes between salary and expense. Do you honestly think Sandy Bell would have pursued his eligibility if he was collecting a salary. To you all money might be the same but to the rest of the world, how it's spent makes a huge difference. If you expect to ever understand eligibility of today's top athletes, you will have to get a better grasp of the definitions.
Not only that but soon after the NCAA's ruling against Kanter, the NCAA's mouthpiece at the time, John Infante, penned an article on his blog arguing that the NCAA couldn't be expected to follow their own precedent they set in this case because of the havoc it would cause going forward.
And of course soon afterward the NCAA did just that when they allowed Alex Len to be deemed eligible. Len, BTW, was under a professional contract (AFAIK) albeit one of a small amount.
This was different from Kanter in that Kanter never signed a pro contract and was never paid a salary.
From an NCAA eligibility standpoint Len should have been ruled ineligible well before Kanter, but that's not how the NCAA decided to rule.
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There are some around this board that think the NCAA runs a "strict" enforcement of a certain set of rules, and zero bias takes place. Any person who believes otherwise, is an ole red kneck UK fan that ain't no nuthin.....
GIDOUT UR TINN FOYAL HATS!!! HARR HARR
Clearly sandy bell wasted her time on things mjk was clearly aware of.
I've heard the paper work the Kanters had ready to go was as on the mark as it gets. All money reserved to hand directly back, and UK had crossed every T and dotted every I. Even Bilas made comments to the effect that people knew at the NCAA ahead of time. That's why everyone estimates it was the switch frol UW to UK and the shoddy interpretations that happened to Kanter.
Wow thanks for calling my post stupid, esp since in no way was I saying that the two were even close to being the same! I was mainly expressing my frustration that nothing ever gets done, and nobody ever stands up to the NCAA.
As far as weather UK or Kanter could've taken action, I'm not a lawyer and admit that maybe it wasn't plausible, but there were many people hoping that action would be taken and it didnt, which was frusterating.
I'm not sure how any true UK fan could read my post and not sympathize with my frustration, and calling it stupid was out of line, esp since at no point did I say the cases were similar at all. I still wish that Cal would've sued, or will sue the NCAA should he be discriminated against, esp when you can show the inconsistency with the Camby case to the Maggette, the Rose case where they vacated his FF due to Rose not talking while Thomas and Duke skated for the exact same thing, the Manger situation, and his getting in trouble for celebrating his 50030th win, while others with vacated wins have done the same thing. As far as Kanter, they thought about it, but decided against it, so it wasn't out of the rhealm of possibility, esp if you know the TRUE FACTS of the case.
As for those who think I'm going overboard, you're Prolly right, but I'm a FANATIC who wants nothing more than for ANYONE to sue the NCAA and make them answer in court! Could you imagine them trying to justify going after Cal, while letting Duke and UNC skate ( I know, they could still penalize them, which I doubt much will happen ).
As far as weather UK or Kanter could've taken action, I'm not a lawyer and admit that maybe it wasn't plausible, but there were many people hoping that action would be taken and it didnt, which was frusterating.
I'm not sure how any true UK fan could read my post and not sympathize with my frustration, and calling it stupid was out of line, esp since at no point did I say the cases were similar at all. I still wish that Cal would've sued, or will sue the NCAA should he be discriminated against, esp when you can show the inconsistency with the Camby case to the Maggette, the Rose case where they vacated his FF due to Rose not talking while Thomas and Duke skated for the exact same thing, the Manger situation, and his getting in trouble for celebrating his 50030th win, while others with vacated wins have done the same thing. As far as Kanter, they thought about it, but decided against it, so it wasn't out of the rhealm of possibility, esp if you know the TRUE FACTS of the case.
As for those who think I'm going overboard, you're Prolly right, but I'm a FANATIC who wants nothing more than for ANYONE to sue the NCAA and make them answer in court! Could you imagine them trying to justify going after Cal, while letting Duke and UNC skate ( I know, they could still penalize them, which I doubt much will happen ).
The way I see it now is other fans are so worried about our team this year they have to troll us about ineligibility.
The amount of money in question in the Kanter case was $33,000. That was the amount deemed over and above necessary expenses.
Of that amount $20,000 was used for educational expenses, and the other $13,000 was still sitting in a bank account.
Harvard tuition alone is $45,000 a year. For $20K, I'm not sure he could afford Sayre. Suggesting that $20,000 is some outlandish figure to pay for quality education is simply incorrect.
how many soon to be nba lottery picks dont get to play basketball in the us when their 18? ones not under contract? Acould ask the same question both ways you see. he was made an example of. that's pretty clear. his story is noteworthy beyond bbn's title hopes. how many nba starters have been victims of the one yearor 19 rule? i'll answer that...not many. because they just go overseas. as their intent is usually to earn money for themselves and or/their family asap. this was not the case with the kanters. in fact if you remember an ncaa spokesman applauded their intent as genuine (attending school), and for being forthcoming. forget his compensations, the kanter's were not poor, and the ncaa knew that. so he was one of the unique failures of the rule. a special case, with no special exceptions granted. it didn't ruin his career. it just ruined it for all basketball fans who didn't get to see him play. not very compassionate.
I have no idea why some UK fans don't think Emmert and the NCAA specifically went after us. Emmert even admitted to such.
Oh yeah MJ, to show your ignorance on the case, Mangers money was for EDUCATION, which was allowed, but only if the club payed for it to the school instead of giving stipends! The money, every penny of it was untouched, and in a bank account, with the Kanters willing to give it back if asked for!
Learn some facts before calling names and hijacking threads, lol!
Learn some facts before calling names and hijacking threads, lol!
Yeah, I think the kid got screwed to the wall. That's the inequity of the NCAA that is so frustrating. I don't believe it has anything to do with KY. I think they are truly that incompetent.
Good point. One thing to keep in mind about the money is that the NCAA only looked at receipts from Kanter's final year with the club. This was misleading from the standpoint that many of the expenses were paid that year for earlier years which Fenerbahce had been late in paying. So in effect what the NCAA was looking at wasn't representative of a single year with Fenerbahce but for a extended timeframe, so naturally the monies were larger than one would expect to see for a single year.
That was a big problem for the Kanters, and largely was traced to the NCAA's completely inept way of investigating this case.
Another issue was that part of the expenses paid were for living expenses. The problem with this being that the NCAA decided to adopt a cost of living standard of an average Turkish town, rather than Istanbul. This would be like being reimbursed for living expenses by a company for staying in New York City, and then being audited and the auditing company assumes a reasonable cost of living standard to be Peoria Illinois! Of course there's going to be a discrepancy between the two. That's not the Kanter's fault.
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What also didn't help Kanter's case was that coach who spoke to the media, making the claim that he was paid something like 100K. It was clearly for the purposes of torpedoing his chance of becoming eligible. I believe they still wanted to use him in Turkey so they had every reason to make sure he wasn't cleared.
When you read the other tweet by the same guy, an NBA exec. said that he would get a lot of time this year... Besides, what NBA exec. said either one of those things? No names? Then don't bring this garbage on here... I think Cal knows more than any NBA exec. who probably knows nothing... We'll see...
A ton of soon to be NBA lottery picks don't get to play basketball in the US. Just this past June you had 2, and there were 5 others going back to 2011 (6 counting Enes). All of those guys were playing for professional teams in Europe. Just like Kanter.
And we can act like Kanter was completely different because he came to the US when he was 17, but the reality of that is that he did so mainly because he wanted to escape from any possible obstacles his pro team could have placed on him entering the draft when he turned 19. It wasn't exactly a case of a kid saying "Oh how I want to attend school in the good ole' US of A", it was the case of an exceptionally talented teenager and the people around him not trusting the biggest pro team in his home country. Fenerbahce was trying to rope him into a contract in which they would have been due a large payoff if Kanter left for the NBA at 19, and Enes and his family wanted no part of it.
iirc he was not under contract while he was here. so he did not play for money in the year before he was drafted. this is from memory, as i thought he played games when he was 15 or 16 in turkey. you're referring to players that played under contract during the year leading up to the draft, while kanter hung around UK waiting on the ncaa for that period. he was trying his best to be an amateur. now why would he do that, when they can move to the usa and still play in the nba anyway?
it's not just UK fans who reference the kanter situation. you make it sound like they were running, and maybe they were. i don't recall every fact. but i know it doesn't matter because kanter to the nba was going to happen whether turkey or the ncaa got in the way or not. and it's not the ncaa that gets to judge their motive. they tried to play by the rules and actually reached out to that association.
Source is unreliable. Don't pay attention to it. I'm not saying we are out if the woods yet but this source can be casted aside.
I already provided you with a link which goes into excruciating detail about the Kanter case. You claim that you read it, or at least have responded back to me about the page. Given that, it's funny to me that most of what you've said since then would have already been addressed if you had actually taken the time to read the page in question.
Kanter had plenty of opportunities to stay in Turkey and/or Europe and sign with a professional team, including opportunities with teams other than Fenerbahce. You are correct that they didn't trust Fenerbahce, and for good reason, but he wasn't legally tied to Fenerbahce.
Instead he chose to go to the USA with a stated desire to attend school and receive an education, and every single thing he did since that time was consistent with that idea. This includes, I might add, Kanter's decision to stay at UK and finish his classes even AFTER the NCAA ruled him 'permanently ineligible'.
If there ever was a time for him to stop studying that would have been a good one, but to his credit Kanter continued and finished out the school year.
I don't know what else you expected him to do before you decide to give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
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my first thought too. just a hit-seeking blog missile.I'm not putting too much stock into this... looks like it was written by a drunken frat boy from Syracuse.
With the season 3 weeks away, I'm more concerned about the NCAA dragging
their feet and Skal held out of games for fear of playing an ineligible player.
What are the chances Skal is in street clothes at the Duke game?
their feet and Skal held out of games for fear of playing an ineligible player.
What are the chances Skal is in street clothes at the Duke game?
Look, I'm not saying that Kanter didn't have an argument. He did. The NCAA rejected that argument, and though you can act like they singled him out, there have been no cases similar to Kanter's since in which a player was ruled eligible. You can point to Alex Len, but Len played a few games for his hometown team in a Ukranian pro league, not for the A level team of a club competing at the very highest level of European basketball (and also a team, in Kanter's case, that was happy to show the NCAA financial records documenting a $6,500+ a month salary). The only guy I know of who actually played games in the Euroleague and then played in college is Domantas Sabonis, and his family was sophisticated (and wealthy) enough to know exactly how to avoid compromising his college eligibility, and went out of their way from the start to make sure college remained an option.
Beyond disagreement about the nature of Kanter's ineligibility, the whole point, and one that I hope is obvious to most people, is that it was completely different from anything related to Labissiere. Whether you agree with the NCAA's logic in regards to Kanter or not, they could point to specific things- he played there, he received this- and say that was the reason he was ineligible. If they try to rule Skal ineligible, or just dawdle and leave him in limbo, they currently would appear to have NOTHING along those lines, other than rumors.
For starters, these guys are just guessing and have the same info all of us on this board have..which is a bunch of speculation.
I won't go crazy one way or the other until more facts are revealed, right now the only people who have all the info are the UK staff and the NCAA.
I won't go crazy one way or the other until more facts are revealed, right now the only people who have all the info are the UK staff and the NCAA.
When you truly believe you are the smartest guy in the room, you'll find yourself backed into a corner more times than not.
. I don't know what's fact from fiction anymore. It's not a source of any kind, just some coaches that I talk to. I think it's a good sign they keep changing the situation. I just want to stay out of it mostly. Every time I've mentioned anything everyone wants proof that I don't have and want the info on a DeadSea scroll with certification and stamped by a notary. the only reason I replied to it here is because we've got some fans that believe nothing can happen because, basically, Cal spent "time" recruiting him. I just don't go for that. When I saw the reference to Gerald Hamilton I was just wowed.
I would say to the people who don't want me to sign this in blood, there are some people around here who believe there was something that was received prior to his commitment from another school. Judging by the NCAA and Kansas/Duke/UNC and the banishment of "strict liability" all of a sudden, I keep telling them it wouldn't matter now as long as Skal didn't know. Isn't this how The NCAA operates in 2015?
Couple that with all the other academic "rumors" and I'm out until we find out. Lol.
if you follow the exchange you'll see kanter's situation really is unique. you say they've never ruled eligible someone with his status, but they've never dealt with someone with his exact status. at least this is what i think. personally i think they were too lazy to investigate it properly. a jealous turkish club. overseas payments etc. it almost goes beyond their capabilities. my gripe is they did not put in the same effort that the kanters did to get him eligible. which is what it should be about with any kid.
And this could be spot on. The NCAA is a governing body. Academic governing bodies are the absolute worst at doing this correctly. Just take a look at politics in 2015. An absolute mess due to ideological mind minions trying to play "rules" as they see them in time. They will screw up more times than not. Academics are some of the absolute worst we have to offer.
Id rather have 100 regular people with no college background and 40 year work histories make the calls. I promise you right now things would be enforced cleaner, fair, and without all the over-kill-over-thought that the so called "intellectuals" bring to the table.
might want to check the following.
http://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/t...al-wont-be-cleared.121739/page-2#post-2448722
http://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/t...al-wont-be-cleared.121739/page-2#post-2448722
Don't sweat it. I just laugh at people who get bent out of shape over a screwup thread. The idiots are literally waiting for someone to screw up. Just laugh at them they show their age.
Absolutely lovely avatar u got there. Wouldn't mind yours and mine hooking up for some UNC study sessions.
All I know is that the NCAA better not drag it out like they did with Kanter. That was total BS and I think they got so much heat from it that the NCAA would probably be scared to pull that ish again. Also, it had to be so demoralizing for them to do that with Kanter, only to have Coach Cal work his magic and turn Harrellson into a beast and still take that team all of the way tot he Final Four.
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