That is precisely Putin's calculation. I hope you take comfort in helping him achieve his aim. He is counting on you.
Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions
- Thread starter Canned Heat
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Do you perhaps remember what you paid for gas 4 years ago? And now?
This is a 3rd grade conversation, both our dumbasses are more than qualified to speak on it.
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Mitt should just focus on winning back his seat in Utah. Utah voters don’t feel the same about him as they did when he ran for President. He has a the next 1.5 years to get them back.
Bullies don’t stand up to bullies. Trump bent over to Russia and North Korea.
I know the defining facet of the American right is just "the left is bad" but the incoherence of the right is on display in this thread as it seems there's no agreement on whether the left is at fault for wanting and driving us into a war or if the left is at fault for being so weak that Russia doesn't have to worry about us being involved in a war. Depending on what exactly happens, Biden will either be a weakling or a warmonger, to the right, with nothing in between as an option.
We aren't going to war over Ukraine, which is good. The problem is that our President informed that to the world, including Putin.
None of that matters as the same President also knew, and told us, that a small incursion would be acceptable. The rest of this noise since that moment is just fluff to make it appear the West wasn't in on it.
What utter nonsense. "Energy destitute?" We spent one year as a net exporter (in a year, 2020 under Trump, where our production DECREASED). As with practically everything to do with economics, this shift we're in had more to do with the pandemic than anything else. We had just BARELY become a net exporter, when our consumption then plummeted in 2020 even more than our production dropped - and so we remained a slight net exporter despite producing less. Consumption has now rebounded faster than production has (though production has returned to 2018 levels, which are still more than double the levels seen just a few years prior). By a bare margin we were net exporter last year and by a bare margin we are forecast as a net importer this year. The EIA projects us returning to net exports in 2023. Hardly "flipping a switch" between energy independent and energy destitute.
Can't have objective conversation about situation when it bubbles down to Trump good vs Biden bad. Whole lot of politicos missing bigger picture due to agenda in domestic politics.
Can you not be both? Biden’s horrendous leadership over the past 13 months has signaled to the world that America is weak and rudderless. Yes, Biden is a weakling. Look no further than the absolutely incompetent Afghanistan withdrawal.
But he and his owners are determined to engage Russia. Again, why the **** do we care what happens in Ukraine. The answer basically boils down to two things - the MIC and Chinese influence wants a war with Russia and the political class does as it’s told. So yes, Biden is absolutely a warmonger. It’s all anyone who’s been in Washington for five decades (with a handful of exceptions) knows how to be.
Generally, if you’re a strong enough figure you don’t need to be a warmonger. If you are, it’s a pretty good indication you’re a weakling.
If we don’t get involved I’ll be pleasantly surprised but you’re kidding yourself if you think Biden and the rest of the gang aren’t itching to do so.
Be a strong enough leader so that entanglements don’t happen and we don’t end up with another endless, costly war. Not sure how any of that is incoherent.
-was there something going on in 2020 that would lead to less global demand for oil? Can't put my finger on it. FOH.
-dems own this mess*, congrats. You did it!
*not just Ukraine...but inflation, rising crime, unnecessary lock downs...the list is long.
-dems own this mess*, congrats. You did it!
*not just Ukraine...but inflation, rising crime, unnecessary lock downs...the list is long.
Both appear to be a real option. Time will tell.
This was avoidable, the bigger picture is that the West is fine with it happening. The question is why?
Putin doesn’t make this move unless he knows the West won’t retaliate militarily.
All eyes should be on Taiwan, China wants Taiwan. Will they take the inaction militarily by the West as an open door?
But let's be accurate and fact-based. The west is not fine with this happening, which is why the west in unison is coming out against the invasion. Germany today has at very minimum paused the Nordstrom deal. The EU is preparing a sanction package. The US is preparing a sanctions package. All western countries are providing support in some way or form. Nearly all former USSR satellites, except the handful who are pro-Russia, have condemned the action.
China itself has condemned the behavior of Russia. Russia is using China as a pawn for leverage. China has their own aspirations in Taiwain, but it's also not in Chinese interest to mobilize and militarize western Europe.
Meanwhile, we are talking about a conflict of nuclear powers. US has limited options, even more limited when you consider this conflict is on the other side of the planet on the border of the second strongest militaries in the world.
We must also remember this conflict would exist with or with out the United States. The rift in Ukraine is both cultural and political. We take a side here because Ukraine is a democracy and a border state of the western alliance.
So, I guess I am missing your point.
For those of you in favor of going to war with Russia.
How many American lives are you willing to give up to achieve your desired results?
How many American lives are you willing to give up to achieve your desired results?
The US has really only drawn one line in the sand. An invasion of a NATO country is analogous to an invasion of all NATO countries. It's going to take an act of serious provocation for NATO to leave those boundaries when it comes to direct conflict.
Keep going. You're off to a good start listing more reasons this administration is dog shit.
The right is a joke. An absolute joke. Everyday they show themselves to be more stupid than the day before. Fortunately the right on here are the extreme and don’t completely represent the right. Thank god
The West is fine with it as long as it stops at the Donbas region. Nordstream 2 as we've been told ever since Biden removed sanctions, isn't operational yet. If they weren't, it wouldn't be happening. Russia does not go in to Ukraine if they think it will create a military response from the West, they don't care about sanctions.
China just agreed to buy 100 million tons of coal from Russia last night. Putin went to see Xi a week or so ago, they didn't move on Ukraine without his approval. You're right that Russia is playing China and the West against each other, but Xi wants to see how the US responds. Taiwan will likely fall to China in the next 3 years IMO.
You're right that the US has limited options, but you damn well don't remove any doubt beforehand.
The conflict exists only in a lack of will from the US to oppose it. We have weak leadership.
Intellectually challenged.
You are again veering from facts and quite frankly, the argument of "this wouldn't occur if Trump was President" is a hypothetical argument that can't be proven or disproven because it's not real. It's a waste of time.
But again, you state that the The West is fine with the invasion of even the Donbas region. This is factually incorrect given the actions of western Europe and NATO since beginning of the invasion. What you mean is that NATO / US will not take direct military action in the conflict.
In terms of Nord Stream 2, Germany announced today it no longer plans to certify the pipeline.
Ukraine-Russia: Germany suspends Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline
Chancellor Olaf Scholz says Germany has taken steps to halt the process of certifying the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia.
apnews.com
In summation, your argument is that the US should take a more militarily aggressive stance and defy another nuclear power (Russia). I won't say there is not merit to that, as I am not Nostradamus, but any time you deal with another nuclear power, we have no choice but to respect their arsenal.
Everyone's fault but President Vlad. So many comrades.
It’s exhausting to correct the propaganda they were fed but good job doing it anyway.
No, I don't think the West should take military action, I do however think that the POTUS removing it as an option increased the liklihood of this happening.You are again veering from facts and quite frankly, the argument of "this wouldn't occur if Trump was President" is a hypothetical argument that can't be proven or disproven because it's not real. It's a waste of time.
But again, you state that the The West is fine with the invasion of even the Donbas region. This is factually incorrect given the actions of western Europe and NATO since beginning of the invasion. What you mean is that NATO / US will not take direct military action in the conflict.
In terms of Nord Stream 2, Germany announced today it no longer plans to certify the pipeline.
Ukraine-Russia: Germany suspends Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline
Chancellor Olaf Scholz says Germany has taken steps to halt the process of certifying the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia.
In summation, your argument is that the US should take a more militarily aggressive stance and defy another nuclear power. I won't say there is not merit to that, as I am not Nostradamus, but any time you deal with another nuclear power, you must respect that nuclear power.
This wouldn't be happening if Trump were President. You think Putin just started wanting Ukraine in April of 21? They took Crimea in 14, nothing for the years of Trump, and immediately of him leaving office start building up troops on Ukraine. In all liklihood he wouldn't have used the military either, but there was doubt in Russia's mind that he wouldn't. Biden removed that doubt in the opening salvo.
Russia has stated that they don't care about sanctions, Europe is still reliant on their Natural Gas, it doesn't matter which pipeline it comes through. They sanction Nordstream 2 now, in a year or 2 they lift them, and it's business as usual.
My overall point is this, and you and I likely agree more than we disagree. The United States can't pussyfoot around with people like Putin and Xi, that doesn't mean go to war, but it must be an option they believe.
To reiterate, hypotheticals about Trump are both unprovable and unfalsifiable because they are hypotheticals. That conversation exists as a means of swaying public opinion to win elections.
The Russian parliament just passed a resolution allowing Putin to extend troops outside of Russia. Many people are envisioning this to be a repeat of Crimea, but Putin in his speech yesterday expressed intent to take all of Ukraine. I don't think this is something that goes away in a few months or years. Russia is challenging the order that has been in place in Europe since the fall of USSR and before that the end of WW2.
The important thing is for you to find a way to justify your failed worldview so you can continue feeling good about it.
The conflict is about the largest collection of troops and invasion in Europe since WW2 and many in this thread think the solution is in Democrats and Republicans. All of you. You all aren't getting it. What is going on is bigger than domestic politics and campaign bumper stickers.
I think people are under-estimating how serious this can actually be.
I think people are under-estimating how serious this can actually be.
You chumps are in charge. It’s been a year of one debacle after the next. But muh “the right”.
Im not.
Keep our troops home. Lives are precious especially American lives
Just add this to the list of things of Biden's administration has done that has proven he's done a real bang up job of being president. 🙄
A hypothetical? Putin had 4 years to make this move, he didn't. He started building up troops last April, and less than a year later here we are, thats following his actions in 2014 that were met with sanctions and nothing else. Leaders and leadership matter, we have none now.
He may take Ukraine, if he believes the West will do nothing militarily. Europe relies on Russia for heat in the winter, how long will they hold out? Are they going to sanction themselves?
hypothetical
[ˌhīpəˈTHedək(ə)l]
ADJECTIVE
- of, based on, or serving as a hypothesis.
"that option is merely hypothetical at this juncture"
synonyms:
exploratory · investigational · probing · fact-finding · trial and error·
[more]
(hypotheticals)
- a hypothetical proposition or statement.
"Finn talked in hypotheticals, tossing what-if scenarios to Rosen"
A lot of people ITT eager to see American teenagers die
Did Raytheon and Lockheed Martin infiltrate this board?
Did Raytheon and Lockheed Martin infiltrate this board?
Ok, so it was complete fluke. The gas gods just blessed us with cheap gas.
Gas is $4 and rising. During this trying time, should we focus on decreasing the cost of gas?
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