Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions

[Catemus]

The bad thing is that Zelensky is basically a dictator too. He's banned political opposition and shut down media that is critical of him and has enriched himself handsomely since being elected.

W

Where is the evidence for such a strong opinion?

Ukraine is literally in survival mode. They have a warrior President who Putin wants dead.

Zelensky is the embodiment of Ukraine’s struggle to fend off absorption into the New Soviet Union that Putin dreams of creating. Last night’s address to Congress showed his loyalty to Ukraine’s people.

No amount of negative propaganda and lies will convince the Ukrainian people or Ukraine’s western allies that Zelensky is anything but a patriot who wants his nation to be free from Russian tyranny.

 

[VaxxedObamaCat]

Ukraine is literally in survival mode. They have a warrior President who Putin wants dead.

Zelensky is the embodiment of Ukraine’s struggle to fend off absorption into the New Soviet Union that Putin dreams of creating. Last night’s address to Congress showed his loyalty to Ukraine’s people.

No amount of negative propaganda and lies will convince the Ukrainian people or Ukraine’s western allies that Zelensky is anything but a patriot who wants his nation to be free from Russian tyranny.

Pathetic.

Zelensky is a dictator POS whose country is notorious for money laundering.

 

[VaxxedObamaCat]

The only things he's banned, you simpleton, are people and groups tied to Russia. Only a fool wouldn't ban them. Im guessing you'd let them roam freely.

Man, I wish this board was around so we could get your take on the Japanese internment camps under FDR.

 

[VaxxedObamaCat]

Do you actually think the little we're spending on helping Ukraine is causing our economic issues? Really?

So $100B couldn't be of better use in America for Americans? It's better spent going to a BS proxy war so it can be laundered through elites?

 

[Catemus]

Pathetic.

Zelensky is a dictator POS whose country is notorious for money laundering.

Before Zelensky, Ukraine was a puppet state of Russia, almost identical to Belarus. Putin and his minions are discovering that the people of Ukraine don’t want to be part of Russia. Zelensky is leading them in their fight to be free from Putin’s dictatorship.

 

[VaxxedObamaCat]

Wait til the Patriot Missiles get there along with targeting tech. Russian troops are about to go to the slaughterhouse. Good.

How much room do you have in your yard with the Ukraine and BLM signs?

 

[VaxxedObamaCat]

Before Zelensky, Ukraine was a puppet state of Russia, almost identical to Belarus. Putin and his minions are discovering that the people of Ukraine don’t want to be part of Russia. Zelensky is leading them in their fight to be free from Putin’s dictatorship.

Fascinating.

It's incredibly fascinating to listen to your all's take regarding Ukraine and its government and then listen to you all dismiss American concerns and resistance to tyranny (and an invasion).

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Man, I wish this board was around so we could get your take on the Japanese internment camps under FDR.

Straw man argument. Try refuting what i actually said.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Pathetic.

Zelensky is a dictator POS whose country is notorious for money laundering.

Really? Fine. Support your position.

 

[Catemus]

So $100B couldn't be of better use in America for Americans? It's better spent going to a BS proxy war so it can be laundered through elites?

The US has frozen $300 billion in Russian assets. The EU has frozen more than that. It can be said that Russia is funding Ukraine’s resistance to their aggression and the reconstruction of the country after Ukraine defeats Russia.

Fascinating.

It's incredibly fascinating to listen to your all's take regarding Ukraine and its government and then listen to you all dismiss American concerns and resistance to tyranny (and an invasion).

It’s equally fascinating to see so much support for another Russian dictator who wants to bring back the Soviet Union. Also, a bit disturbing.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

So $100B couldn't be of better use in America for Americans? It's better spent going to a BS proxy war so it can be laundered through elites?

"Laundered" again. First, do you know what that means and second, can you give an example.

 

[Bill Derington]

Except it’s been about 72 years since DPRK invaded South Korea. With the exception of some cross-border skirmishes, they won’t make that mistake again.

Only took 40000 US soldiers killed to drive them back.
That’s what those of us that oppose want to prevent in Ukraine, but we’re getting closer and closer.
It’s why this should’ve been prevented before it occurred, and could’ve been.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

How much room do you have in your yard with the Ukraine and BLM signs?

Poindexter, I'm a hard right evangelical Christian. I'm not, however, alt-right, which most Ukraine haters seem to be.

You'll have to do much better than sound bites, straw man arguments and unintelligent emotional rants if you want to challenge me.

I'll welcome the exercise if you're up to it. So far you've just been another

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Only took 40000 US soldiers killed to drive them back.
That’s what those of us that oppose want to prevent in Ukraine, but we’re getting closer and closer.
It’s why this should’ve been prevented before it occurred, and could’ve been.

No, it couldn't have been. Putin is chasing his legacy. He was taking Ukraine back...period. We aren't going into Ukraine. We are no closer than we were 9 months ago. You keep saying it but it doesn't happen.

 

[Bill Cosby]

"Laundered" again. First, do you know what that means and second, can you give an example.

As has been explained to you, the corrupt assholes in Washington have a pile of money they can’t use yet for personal expenses - my tax dollars. Under the guise of fighting Russia, they send tens of billions of dollars to Ukraine, and fight any transparency or accounting. That money is then funneled back to those corrupt assholes for their personal use in the form of high paying jobs with overpaid, unaccountable defense contractors, or campaign contributions (which are then used to hire friends and family).

And that’s just the “above board” way to do it, not the direct payments the presidents family was getting from Ukraine and Russia for favors.

And as we’ve seen over the past few weeks, the federal government is outsourcing its propaganda campaigns to Twitter (and obviously other media outlets Musk doesn’t have the literal receipts for).

Yet after having this explained to you numerous times, and seeing the clear proof of the propaganda campaigns the US is running, YOU STILL FALL FOR IT.

Unless you are a self interested defense contractor or consultant in Washington, it defies all logic how you could still support this bullshit.

 

[Catemus]

As has been explained to you, the corrupt assholes in Washington have a pile of money they can’t use yet for personal expenses - my tax dollars. Under the guise of fighting Russia, they send tens of billions of dollars to Ukraine, and fight any transparency or accounting. That money is then funneled back to those corrupt assholes for their personal use in the form of high paying jobs with overpaid, unaccountable defense contractors, or campaign contributions (which are then used to hire friends and family).

And that’s just the “above board” way to do it, not the direct payments the presidents family was getting from Ukraine and Russia for favors.

And as we’ve seen over the past few weeks, the federal government is outsourcing its propaganda campaigns to Twitter (and obviously other media outlets Musk doesn’t have the literal receipts for).

Yet after having this explained to you numerous times, and seeing the clear proof of the propaganda campaigns the US is running, YOU STILL FALL FOR IT.

Unless you are a self interested defense contractor or consultant in Washington, it defies all logic how you could still support this bullshit.

It must be repeated often that the military aid being sent to Ukraine is in the form of weapons, equipment and training. There is also some humanitarian aid for the millions of Ukrainians who have been forced from their homes because of Russia’s invasion.

Also, most of the military equipment being sent is from surplus stock. Even the famous (or infamous if you support Putin) HIMARS rocket launcher is from outdated stock.

The Patriot missile defense system is current technology but it’s necessary because of Putin’s relentless use of missiles against civilian infrastructure. Most of the Russians’ antiquated missiles are being shot down by the very capable Ukrainian military but enough are getting through that many hundreds of thousands of civilians are facing the threat of freezing in the cold weather.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

worlds richest pimp stopped in America to check on his stable. Telling his whores they aren’t giving him enough money.

Btw I see the whores were waving another country’s flag at our Capitol. That’s as disrespectful as giving the corrupt pimp our tax money.

 

[SDC888]

Much easier to fool the NPCs than it is to convince them they've been fooled.

 

[Bill Cosby]

We’ve really jumped the shark at this point.

Zelenskyy is a corrupt little twerp, propped up 100% by the US government, fighting an enemy that is holding back from completely obliterating him, because Ukraine isn’t worth the literal nuclear option. He’s no more a hero than any other Sesame Street puppet.

To the extent anyone is propped up as a hero for what’s happening in Ukraine, it should be my son and his future taxpaying children who will reap the consequences of the uncontrollable debt the ruling class has saddled upon his future.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

As has been explained to you, the corrupt assholes in Washington have a pile of money they can’t use yet for personal expenses - my tax dollars. Under the guise of fighting Russia, they send tens of billions of dollars to Ukraine, and fight any transparency or accounting. That money is then funneled back to those corrupt assholes for their personal use in the form of high paying jobs with overpaid, unaccountable defense contractors, or campaign contributions (which are then used to hire friends and family).

And that’s just the “above board” way to do it, not the direct payments the presidents family was getting from Ukraine and Russia for favors.

And as we’ve seen over the past few weeks, the federal government is outsourcing its propaganda campaigns to Twitter (and obviously other media outlets Musk doesn’t have the literal receipts for).

Yet after having this explained to you numerous times, and seeing the clear proof of the propaganda campaigns the US is running, YOU STILL FALL FOR IT.

Unless you are a self interested defense contractor or consultant in Washington, it defies all logic how you could still support this bullshit.

Actually, thats the best anyone has explained the position. Perhaps others have meant to say that but without the clarity.

It is possible but I'd need to see some examples of it. I understand you think its happening and to some degree, I'm sure it is. Some of that is the unfortunate way of the world but can you demonstrate anything at all that is illegal?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

We’ve really jumped the shark at this point.

Zelenskyy is a corrupt little twerp, propped up 100% by the US government, fighting an enemy that is holding back from completely obliterating him, because Ukraine isn’t worth the literal nuclear option. He’s no more a hero than any other Sesame Street puppet.

To the extent anyone is propped up as a hero for what’s happening in Ukraine, it should be my son and his future taxpaying children who will reap the consequences of the uncontrollable debt the ruling class has saddled upon his future.

And now you've lost my attention again. You're right back to the whacko, alt-right sound bites that are demonstrably false.

You are correct about our national debt but our expenditures in Ukraine are almost insignificant in that regard.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Actually, thats the best anyone has explained the position. Perhaps others have meant to say that but without the clarity.

It is possible but I'd need to see some examples of it. I understand you think its happening and to some degree, I'm sure it is. Some of that is the unfortunate way of the world but can you demonstrate anything at all that is illegal?

As noted, conveniently those sending the money to Ukraine have defeated attempts to account for the money. Since those benefiting from the payments write the laws, they ensure it is legal, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t unethical or corrupt.

Even if we continue wasting money in Ukraine, not a single additional dollar should be sent until every single dollar that has been sent is accounted for.

 

[Bill Cosby]

And now you've lost my attention again. You're right back to the whacko, alt-right sound bites that are demonstrably false.

You are correct about our national debt but our expenditures in Ukraine are almost insignificant in that regard.

Which part is false?

We will disagree on the significance of $100 billion dollars.

 

[SDC888]

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

As noted, conveniently those sending the money to Ukraine have defeated attempts to account for the money. Since those benefiting from the payments write the laws, they ensure it is legal, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t unethical or corrupt.

Even if we continue wasting money in Ukraine, not a single additional dollar should be sent until every single dollar that has been sent is accounted for.

I certainly don't mind oversight. Most of what we've sent so far has been in equipment, I think.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I certainly don't mind oversight. Most of what we've sent so far has been in equipment, I think.

A quick google shows that’s not true. And even if we were just sending them our weapons stockpiles, it’s all going to need to be replenished at an inflated cost. So the point still remains.

I’m sure they’re also sending pallets of cash like the people running this administration did with iran, but obviously that will be a small percentage of 100 billion.

 

[Bill Derington]

No, it couldn't have been. Putin is chasing his legacy. He was taking Ukraine back...period. We aren't going into Ukraine. We are no closer than we were 9 months ago. You keep saying it but it doesn't happen.

It absolutely could’ve been, and I contest this is exactly what DC wanted to happen.

We are going to either get embarrassed or send in troops. The DC establishment doesn’t give a damn if thousands of Americans are killed, as long as their defense contractor supporters get fat govt contracts.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

A quick google shows that’s not true. And even if we were just sending them our weapons stockpiles, it’s all going to need to be replenished at an inflated cost. So the point still remains.

I’m sure they’re also sending pallets of cash like the people running this administration did with iran, but obviously that will be a small percentage of 100 billion.

So far we've signed off on about 60B but we're a long way from "spending" all that. Most has not been cash but has been military aid.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

It absolutely could’ve been, and I contest this is exactly what DC wanted to happen.

We are going to either get embarrassed or send in troops. The DC establishment doesn’t give a damn if thousands of Americans are killed, as long as their defense contractor supporters get fat govt contracts.

Well, much of the world tried to no avail. I'm not sure what magic wand you think exists but Putin was chasing his legacy regardless. Trump wouldn't have been able to stop it either. Your assertions are baseless. Russia is losing and losing badly. They are out of much of their equipment. They aren't supplying their troops properly at all. What war fairy is floating around that makes you think Russia can stop the tide that is swelling? I'm not being ugly but it makes no sense. There is NOTHING happening that should make you think this way other than you've always had this position and you aren't changing it.

Our troops are not going to Ukraine.

 

[Bill Cosby]

So far we've signed off on about 60B but we're a long way from "spending" all that. Most has not been cash but has been military aid.

How much has been spent? And how much do you classify as “military aid”?

 

[bcw1029]

It absolutely could’ve been, and I contest this is exactly what DC wanted to happen.

We are going to either get embarrassed or send in troops. The DC establishment doesn’t give a damn if thousands of Americans are killed, as long as their defense contractor supporters get fat govt contracts.

Nope, not true at all. Even Zelensky said he doesn’t want American troops on his soil, and even if he did, Biden is too weak to advocate for that anyway.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

How much has been spent? And how much do you classify as “military aid”?

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?

Nine charts illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

Aid to Ukraine Explained in Six Charts

Six charts show where the $68 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine goes, how much of it buys weapons, how long it will take to spend the money, and what other countries are doing. With no settlement in sight, the war will go on for many months, as will U.S. aid to support it.

www.csis.org

 

[bcw1029]

Only took 40000 US soldiers killed to drive them back.
That’s what those of us that oppose want to prevent in Ukraine, but we’re getting closer and closer.
It’s why this should’ve been prevented before it occurred, and could’ve been.

So with that logic, do you think WWII and the Korean War could have been prevented?

Trump was influential in helping bring about Middle East peace with certain countries, but claiming he or a stronger leader could have prevented this is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Bill Cosby]

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?

Nine charts illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

Aid to Ukraine Explained in Six Charts

Six charts show where the $68 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine goes, how much of it buys weapons, how long it will take to spend the money, and what other countries are doing. With no settlement in sight, the war will go on for many months, as will U.S. aid to support it.

www.csis.org

Can you quote the relevant data from those links that support your assertions?

 

[SDC888]

I'd bet the farm against Ukraine winning back their territory, absent something significant occurring like Russian governmental and societal collapse from within, or more substantial direct NATO involvement.

This actually ends one of two ways, the battlefield simply gets exhausted over (significant) time where after suffering innumerable casualties, they both finally settle down to peace talks.

Or we step in and stop it, triggering a war of unimaginable consequence.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Can you quote the relevant data from those links that support your assertions?

You can read.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I'd bet the farm against Ukraine winning back their territory, absent something significant occurring like Russian governmental and societal collapse from within, or more substantial direct NATO involvement.

This actually ends one of two ways, the battlefield simply gets exhausted over (significant) time where after suffering innumerable casualties, they both finally settle down to peace talks.

Or we step in and stop it, triggering a war of unimaginable consequence.

What do you mean by "their" territory? There is no question that Donbas belongs to Ukraine no matter how much Putin kicks, screams and supports separatists who are nothing more than terrorists.

Now, on to your other assertion, Russia is losing ground constantly. Their soldiers don't want to be there, they are poorly equipped and Russia is running low on pretty much everything their military needs. I think you are stuck on Russia supposedly being a super power. They have proven they are only a super power in regards to nuclear weapons and as poorly as their weapons have performed, I'm not too sure about that either.

They have a weak, antiquated and demoralized military. So long as we provide enough support, Russia will be forced out of Ukraine. I don't think that is debatable any longer. The interesting issue is what becomes of Crimea. I still think that will be the bargaining chip to end this mess.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I'd bet the farm against Ukraine winning back their territory, absent something significant occurring like Russian governmental and societal collapse from within, or more substantial direct NATO involvement.

This actually ends one of two ways, the battlefield simply gets exhausted over (significant) time where after suffering innumerable casualties, they both finally settle down to peace talks.

Or we step in and stop it, triggering a war of unimaginable consequence.

There is no way Russia can keep up with this. Their men will turn on them at some point.

The Chechen jihadis taking on Putin's 'empire of evil' in Ukraine who say Russian troops are like 'cattle for slaughter'

Chechen separatists - who are some of Russia's oldest enemies - have joined forces with Ukraine in a bid to win the war, with the hope they can one day take their holy war back to their homeland of Chechnya.

news.sky.com

 

[Bill Derington]

So with that logic, do you think WWII and the Korean War could have been prevented?

Trump was influential in helping bring about Middle East peace with certain countries, but claiming he or a stronger leader could have prevented this is a bit of a stretch.

No it isn’t, for 4 years it didn’t happen. It did in 2014 and in 2022.
Putin knew Biden would not intervene with US air power, or blockade the Black Sea. Hell, Biden told him he wouldn’t.

What Biden did was the opposite of peace through strength. I guarantee Trump wouldn’t have stated publicly the US wouldn’t involve our military.

Keep on believing your fairy tale that this couldn’t have been prevented.

 

[Bill Derington]

Well, much of the world tried to no avail. I'm not sure what magic wand you think exists but Putin was chasing his legacy regardless. Trump wouldn't have been able to stop it either. Your assertions are baseless. Russia is losing and losing badly. They are out of much of their equipment. They aren't supplying their troops properly at all. What war fairy is floating around that makes you think Russia can stop the tide that is swelling? I'm not being ugly but it makes no sense. There is NOTHING happening that should make you think this way other than you've always had this position and you aren't changing it.

Our troops are not going to Ukraine.

The magic wand was the threat of the US intervening militarily. Putin knew Biden wouldn’t.