Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions
- Thread starter Canned Heat
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I just pulled up a google list. I know its like 87 countries the US has used bombs or guns to kill people since ww2 ended. It shocked me when I saw the number. Clearly you think we can run around and kill people without pushback or fomenting hate. Sure Al Qaeda was expressly attacking us because of our involvement in ME politics.... but we need to just say "they hate us because of our freedom" and it makes that go away. Now Russia says they attacked because they felt nato was arming Ukraine for an offensive and we video evidence that we were and yet we have to say... "no, Putin invaded Ukraine because he is a horrible person that just wants to kill children".
You should go back and reread the Minsk agreement and then think about who was willing to live with it and who wasn't. Then tell us with a straight face that we didn't have anything to do with this invasion.
It seems like if we boil your argument down to its basic argument, it's that America can do whatever we want anywhere in the world and nobody can stop us or we will call them names and attack them.
If you say something about how stupid I am on the Al Qaeda part... Rob Oneil, the guy who shot Bin Laden, said the exact same thing. He was actually much more critical of our response.
It’s not a simplistic view, it’s an accurate view. All Eastern European countries with the exception of Serbia hate Russia, and wanted not only to be closer to the West, but in a security alliance. Can you blame them? Eastern Europeans are much friendlier to Americans than Western Europeans for good reason. Hungary’s leader Orban may have a friendship with Putin but most Hungarians hate Russians.
NATO is a defensive organization, period. Thankfully, NATO’s recent military actions has been limited to bombing campaigns in Serbia and Libya. And again, membership of the member states was voluntary.
If NATO is a defense org then how many times have they operated on offense?
It is so wearisome to hear the same falsehoods. There’s not one neighbor that China can move against that we’re not allied with or sworn to protect. Same as Russia and NATO. A Chinese or Russian move against either would be a near certain trigger of WW3.
Ukraine is not like these.
I didn’t agree with the Libya action because the military strikes were not approved by Congress and the refugee catastrophe that happened as a result. The Bosnian/Kosovo campaigns were seen by those respective countries as defensive due to ethnic cleansing.
What falsehoods? Do you really believe weakness doesn’t invite aggression? The residual effect of a Ukrainian victory cannot be overstated, the leader post-Putin of Russia and China will think twice of aggressive and/or imperial desires towards their neighbors. Not to mention helping Ukraine is the right thing to do, sorry that it interrupts your isolationist stance.
Orban has decent relations with Putin but most Hungarians don’t care for Russians. I’ve been to Budapest.
But you should poll starting a war with them and see how that comes out. Of course people have hard feelings about Russia due to the communism of the 30's to 80's.... If we, as the west, are being honest, Russia isn't the devil that communist USSR was. It just simply isn't. It's like people in Poland being whipped into a frenzy over the 30's but yet they turn a blind eye to Bandera in Ukraine and the 100,000 poles he killed because they weren't true Ukrainians. Damn man, we can find anything to hate about any other country.
The Holodomor happened. Ukraine has the right to be pissed. It was communism that caused those deaths. Ask yourself if there are communist parties in Ukraine right now????
But Orban won reelection on stopping the influx of african immigrants that the EU seems hell bent on having absolutely no end to.... Just like the US with South Americans.... Just no acknowledgement of borders and what they mean.
Even worse... Why the hell did we go into Syria. I know the war mongers keep saying "you know why went in there".... But Assad was fighting isis to keep his country as a pretty diverse state by ME comparisons. Assad had jews, christians, kurds, muslims, and a couple other groups I'd never heard of, all living together for years until we decided that Russia's pipeline needed to go and our new pipeline needed to be approved.
Assad said no so we bombed the shit out of his country to remove him.
Tired of arguing. What do you think about this...
I don't think you get what war does to humans. Even the people that don't die are seriously fooked up. If you are that gung ho to keep up the fight then atleast have the balls to go yourself.
I agree with you on Assad on many points with the exception that he was a proxy for Iran. Raqqa was ISIS’s hub in the northeast, was liberated under Trump while we helped the SDF.
On paper, UN Resolution 1973.
But the real reason was regime change. The Hillary laugh about Qaddafi’s death was cringeworthy
Assad was fighting isis. The whole war was isis trying to turn Syria into a islamic state istead of a tolerant state. Not sure how you can defend us fighting Assad when he was isis while we were fighting isis in Iraq and Afgan?
Where did I say in any of my posts that we needed to fight Assad? I only said Assad was/is Iran’s bitch. I said Raqqa was liberated under Trump and was a hub for ISIS.
Well we were fighting Assad who was fighting ISis... So why the fook were we there?
I think you're taking a page from the liberals emotional playbook. That doesn't negate the need for action, but it does highlight how much soldiers sacrifice. Their efforts shouldn't be taken lightly. Their injuries also shouldn't be used by the cowards of the world to justify inaction.Tired of arguing. What do you think about this...
I don't think you get what war does to humans. Even the people that don't die are seriously fooked up. If you are that gung ho to keep up the fight then atleast have the balls to go yourself.
Assad was not fighting ISIS. Once again you prove yourself to be totally ignorant.
The Assad Regime’s Business Model for Supporting the Islamic State
The Syrian government got off the hook for facilitating the terrorist group's rise and funding its operations.
www.lawfareblog.com
I’m not sure how to make you understand this: the Chinese and Russians have ALREADY thought twice about it because there are ALREADY strategic alliances in place. Nothing going on in Ukraine changes that.
The “right thing to do” is not a security strategy. If that were true, we’d be involved in every conflict on earth.
When you all can see for yourself that none other than George Kennan predicted this and you STILL can’t admit that it’s a mistake, you have some serious denial.
Good article. I had forgotten about the prison amnesties and joint oil dealings. About the only positive thing that could be said about Assad is that he was secular and left the Christians alone.Assad was not fighting ISIS. Once again you prove yourself to be totally ignorant.
The Assad Regime’s Business Model for Supporting the Islamic State
The Syrian government got off the hook for facilitating the terrorist group's rise and funding its operations.
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George Kennan, you mean the guy who was against the creation of NATO, against the Monroe Doctrine, against the idea of an independent West Germany, and called the threat of the Soviet Union “exaggerated”? 😆 K.
Shocking that an isolationist would like another isolationist.
You are right, the right thing to do is not a security strategy, but a moral calculation.
Well, we're quickly heading to US soldier involvement. Will it be worth it then?
He spends most days in HMT's fallout shelter or in the fetal position under his desk. It's been that way for 10 months now.
US troops will be manning or around the Patriot missile battery's, what do you think will happen when Russia strikes them and kills US troops, you can almost hear the call to arms now in DC. How long before we have "advisers" on the ground in Ukraine, if we don't already.
Ukraine is not faring well, if you think they shot down 27 of 30 missiles in Kyiv today I've got a bridge to sell you. They are being ground up by Russia, unfortunately. The citizens will suffer mightily this winter, how long before they start calling for their leaders heads? It's a terrible situation that we've fostered, and unnecessarily lengthened. The only way Ukraine wins is if we get involved with troops.
We're planning to train them on how to use patriot missiles and other equipment in Germany. Does that ruin your whine?
That's some of the worst analysis I've seen so far. The Ukrainian people want to fight. They know winter will be hard. The question is how Russia will fare. We've made sure Ukraine troops are properly outfitted for the weather. The Russians aren't and don't even care. No one is winning this war by launching missiles.
Far-right plotters led by Prince planned armed coup & asked RUSSIA to help
A GERMAN aristocrat is at the centre of a Russian-linked plot to violently overthrow the government and install himself as leader so he could bring about the return of the Second Reich. Prince Hein…
www.thesun.co.uk
The action in Libya wasn't controlled by NATO. It was in response to 1973 by the United Nations. The US led the intervention with some other NATO members. It is a mischaracterization to refer to this as an offensive action by NATO.
It's not the troops, its the citizens. There is a point of no return for the West, what will we do at that point?
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