POLITICAL THREAD

[Bill Derington]

The unspoken issue behind complaints about Free Trade treaties is that the treaty is not what is driving jobs abroad. The difference in wages drives jobs abroad. Nothing prevents a capitalist from closing his grommet factory in Tulsa and re-opening it in Tokyo or Tibet. NAFTA didn't exist when the New England mills closed. Ditto for the North Carolina mills that opened when they shifted from New England to North Carolina. When the Korean mills closed after arriving from North Carolina and shifted to China, no trade treaties were involved. Capitalists chase profits. Substitute cars for grommets or whatever. You can have protectionism or capitalism. Free Trade treaties just try to balance levels of protectionism. The trade off is jobs vs lower prices. It's home owned appliance stores vs Wal-Mart.When you shop at a Wal-Mart rather than at McCostly you've decided that Wal-Mart's shareholders get that profit rather than Mr. McCostly. A free trade treaty is an arrangement trying to apportion winners and losers. People who promise you there will be no losers if they're in charge are lying.

Listen, Our current trade policies have crippled the middle class, there is no refuting that. I don't think Trump is going to bring every job back, but something has to change.

I don't blame the companies that move, it's a no brainer to move a plant right across the border where wages are dirt cheap, and environmental laws are nonexistent. I do blame the politicians that have created this environment.

As we stand now the factory workers have to compete with the fear of their plant leaving, and the poor people have to compete with illegal immigrants, that in a nutshell is why pay has been stagnant or most likely gone down, while executive pay has skyrocketed.

 

[Teachable Moe]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-trump-and-putin-thing-a-detailed-response

Since this is a fairly detailed discussion of Putin and Trump, I imagine the number of readers from here will approach 0. Since it comes from a site called Talking Points Memo, I imagine hours of braying. What is useful -- even if you absolutely refuse to actually read it -- is to note the manner. Marshall quotes the argument he's responding to in detail. And (this might seem unimaginable) doesn't put words in the mouth of the man he's arguing with!!! And this will seem like madness: Marshall doesn't even insult him.

Included is a link back to Marshall's original report on Trump/Putin.

 

[fuzz77]

Im all for those issues except the amnesty. illegals gotta hit the road and don't come back until they go through the legal process only.

While that sounds like a reasonable position it is in reality on par with "got to keep out illegal drugs until they are legalized". While legalized marijuana has generated lots-o-tax-revenue it has done little to stem the black market for marijuana in those states where it is now legal. It's cheaper on the streets so that market still thrives.

98%+ of illegals would never be granted legal work status because they are laborers and nobody who wants to hire them, use their labor is going to sponsor them because of the expense of the process and the commitment it requires. It kind of defeats the purpose of why they want them. It would also create the need for agents/middle-men to hook up prospective laborers with prospective employers...which adds to the expense.

You can start spending a chit-load of money on capturing and deporting illegals...or spend an even bigger chit-load sending them to jail.

Despite all efforts we find it impossible to keep drugs from crossing the border. If you can't stop drugs you sure as hell can't stop humans from doing the same. As long as the demand for their services exists, they will find their way here.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Listen, Our current trade policies have crippled the middle class, there is no refuting that. I don't think Trump is going to bring every job back, but something has to change.

I don't blame the companies that move, it's a no brainer to move a plant right across the border where wages are dirt cheap, and environmental laws are nonexistent. I do blame the politicians that have created this environment.

As we stand now the factory workers have to compete with the fear of their plant leaving, and the poor people have to compete with illegal immigrants, that in a nutshell is why pay has been stagnant or most likely gone down, while executive pay has skyrocketed.

Politicians didn't create economics, Of course, workers have to fear their plants leaving. Plants leave all the time. I talked about that. The once-thriving mill culture of New England cratered well before anyone dreamed of NAFTA. or TPP. Etc. We could scrap free trade agreements. We could simply impose tariffs unilaterally. Then, other countries would impose their tariffs unilaterally. What "free trade" treaties are a euphemism for: negotiated tariffs. Of course, you can believe that someone can just walk in and make everyone forget their own self-interest and America would be great again. I can't make you believe otherwise, but I can predict your disappointment with the results.

 

[Willy4UK]

While that sounds like a reasonable position it is in reality on par with "got to keep out illegal drugs until they are legalized". While legalized marijuana has generated lots-o-tax-revenue it has done little to stem the black market for marijuana in those states where it is now legal. It's cheaper on the streets so that market still thrives.

98%+ of illegals would never be granted legal work status because they are laborers and nobody who wants to hire them, use their labor is going to sponsor them because of the expense of the process and the commitment it requires. It kind of defeats the purpose of why they want them. It would also create the need for agents/middle-men to hook up prospective laborers with prospective employers...which adds to the expense.

You can start spending a chit-load of money on capturing and deporting illegals...or spend an even bigger chit-load sending them to jail.

Despite all efforts we find it impossible to keep drugs from crossing the border. If you can't stop drugs you sure as hell can't stop humans from doing the same. As long as the demand for their services exists, they will find their way here.

Marijuana has done little to the black market? Maybe. But it will become cheaper in time. But let's see where it is helping. It's helping reduce prescription pills prescriptions under Medicare saving American taxpayers millions.. it has lowered the usage rates in teens. And it's increased a wide of dollars to be used at the state level (education). So I think i'll wait for the supply to go up before I dance the black market jibe.

As for illegals. Don't care. Either start killing them off or go ahead and legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitutes on a federal level and use the tax money to pay to have these jack ass lawbreakers shipped out. And people are wondering why the Brexit happened.

Pisses me off that my wife had to go through the process to come in this country legally. You try telling her to allow amnesty. She'll scratch your f***** eyes out, son. Try her. Please try her.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Ya'll realize if she wins that a treasonous felon will access to nuke codes.

Since she hates her own country, don't be surprised if we don't see nukes dropped on America. Our own nukes.

Is there some kind of contest for Most Paranoid Post?

 

[Bill Derington]

Moe, Why would Russia want Trump in the White House? Putin can and has taken over Crimea, we did nothing, invaded the Ukraine, we imposed financial penalties, they then supported Assad whom Ovama has specifically said must step down, they then forced Obama's hand in fighting ISIS by taking the lead. They have shadowed our aircraft, flew into our allies air space, and ran strafing runs on our ships, and we have done nothing. Do you honestly believe if Trump is elected that sh*t is gonna fly? No, and they know it, so whom do you think they'd rather have in office to continue pushing their growing world influence?

Lastly, they have Europe by the balls now, as they control the natural gas that enters now. The greenies shutdown coal, and Germany shutdown it's nukes, what do you think makes the electricity now? Winter time with no heat has a way of influencing people.

 

[Teachable Moe]

They difference is actually the cost of production, which in large part is the cost of labor. It's expensive here. It's cheap elsewhere.

2 options. Lower wages here, or artificially raise the cost of the foreign made goods via tariffs. Lowering wages isn't an option. So tariffs are the only vehicle left.

I do oppose concepts like tariffs which artificially drive up the price of goods, as well as unions which artificially drive up the cost of labor. Neither are free market concepts.

However, we're not in a free market. We're in a highly regulated market, while many foreign markets are not.

That's why I support tariffs, presently.

Free Trade agrerements are a euphemism for negotiated tariffs. There are American tariffs.

 

[Big_Blue79]

BTW, here is the clip from 2010 when Hank Johnson was concerned that Guam may capsize.

View embedded media

That never gets old.

 

[Willy4UK]

Is there some kind of contest for Most Paranoid Post?

You haven't seen shit yet, Moe.

Wait till she orders NSA death squads to personally come to your home while you have to watch your whole family get murder raped.

 

[Willy4UK]

By the way Moe, she will nuke America and you can't provide one goddamn bit of evidence to say she won't.

 

[Bill Cosby]

So I guess Fuzz and Teachable Moe are going with DNC tactic #42 "Post so much text on message boards that the servers are overloaded and cannot store any more drivel."

I expect Rivals to shut down in the very near term. Actually surprised they aren't embedding more pictures to really overload the system.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Moe, Why would Russia want Trump in the White House? Putin can and has taken over Crimea, we did nothing, invaded the Ukraine, we imposed financial penalties, they then supported Assad whom Ovama has specifically said must step down, they then forced Obama's hand in fighting ISIS by taking the lead. They have shadowed our aircraft, flew into our allies air space, and ran strafing runs on our ships, and we have done nothing. Do you honestly believe if Trump is elected that sh*t is gonna fly? No, and they know it, so whom do you think they'd rather have in office to continue pushing their growing world influence?

Lastly, they have Europe by the balls now, as they control the natural gas that enters now. The greenies shutdown coal, and Germany shutdown it's nukes, what do you think makes the electricity now? Winter time with no heat has a way of influencing people.

They most certainly don't have Europe by the balls. Their standard of living has plummeted. It's the same strategy we used against Communist Russia. If you haven't read the article I posted, it's very illuminating. It's a bit of a sit -- it'll take 15 minutes or so to read, and Marshall is much clearer than I could hope to be with a precis.

 

[MrLair]

Bernie fans just interrupted the prayer. And now the DMC just released a statement apologizing to Bernie supporters.

Karma is a bitch.

 

[Teachable Moe]

By the way Moe, she will nuke America and you can't provide one goddamn bit of evidence to say she won't.

Evidence? On Rivals? Isn't that against board regulations?

 

[warrior-cat]

Politicians didn't create economics, Of course, workers have to fear their plants leaving. Plants leave all the time. I talked about that. The once-thriving mill culture of New England cratered well before anyone dreamed of NAFTA. or TPP. Etc. We could scrap free trade agreements. We could simply impose tariffs unilaterally. Then, other countries would impose their tariffs unilaterally. What "free trade" treaties are a euphemism for: negotiated tariffs. Of course, you can believe that someone can just walk in and make everyone forget their own self-interest and America would be great again. I can't make you believe otherwise, but I can predict your disappointment with the results.

So you just sit back and vote the status quo and not take a chance that possibly something new could effect change?

 

[Willy4UK]

Evidence? On Rivals? Isn't that against board regulations?

Yep. There is evidence that she already is a traitor to this country. Pretty sure that is death penalty worthy. So going on that notion of someone who is a traitor, it's easy to see that she will use the most destructive means to further hurt the people who love this country (people like me, but not hillary voters because by default and indirectness, hillary voters are just as guilty to harming this country and thus need to be killed off like the illegals)

 

[JHB4UK]

All this talk distracting from the CONTENT of emails trying to make "the Ruskies did it!" the story instead is amusing

Please, lets go down the route that Putin is trying to influence American elections. And examine how much he & his cohorts have given to the Clinton Family Crime Foundation. Or maybe just the transaction where Hillary's State Dept approved the russian takeover of American uranium mining?

 

[Bill Derington]

Politicians didn't create economics, Of course, workers have to fear their plants leaving. Plants leave all the time. I talked about that. The once-thriving mill culture of New England cratered well before anyone dreamed of NAFTA. or TPP. Etc. We could scrap free trade agreements. We could simply impose tariffs unilaterally. Then, other countries would impose their tariffs unilaterally. What "free trade" treaties are a euphemism for: negotiated tariffs. Of course, you can believe that someone can just walk in and make everyone forget their own self-interest and America would be great again. I can't make you believe otherwise, but I can predict your disappointment with the results.

Politicians create laws, such as NAFTA and TPP. Tariffs are put in place to protect Americans. At one time we wouldn't do business with Communist countries that limit their citizens freedom, such as China that I read today is limiting the citizens internet sites they can visit, but then someone realized they had a wealth of cheap labor and lax environmental laws. There was a dollar to be made, now theyre building military bases in the ocean to directly counter us, and we funded it.

Drug use has exploded, and why do people use drugs? To escape reality, and that has come in part because hope of a good life moved, and now we get 24 hour coverage of the rich and famous and some folks don't have a pot to piss in.
We can do better than we are right now, if we stay on this path the USA we know now will not last long. When the middle class erodes the nation isn't far behind.

 

[Bill Derington]

They most certainly don't have Europe by the balls. Their standard of living has plummeted. It's the same strategy we used against Communist Russia. If you haven't read the article I posted, it's very illuminating. It's a bit of a sit -- it'll take 15 minutes or so to read, and Marshall is much clearer than I could hope to be with a precis.

Ok, let them shut off the flow of energy and see who has control.

Russia isn't the Soviet Union Moe, and we're in what year 2 of the sanctions, only took 50 years to work on the Soviets, and they weren't piping in the oil and Natural gas to Europe.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Are the lefties really arguing Putin stole these emails and is releasing them to try and influence the election?

 

[JBHolmesfan]

Are the lefties really arguing Putin stole these emails and is releasing them to try and influence the election?

Yes. Not only that, but he doctored them to make it look even worse!

 

[Willy4UK]

Putin didn't leak shit. That's bull shit.

Made up. Never happened

 

[WettCat]

Putin releasing emails and a videotape inciting violence in Benghazi.

Do you really expect anything else?

 

[domino79]

Assange pantsed the Democratic party.

And they don't know how to spin it.

They are twisting in the wind.

 

[Bill Cosby]

LOL. Jesus Christ.

 

[Willy4UK]

Irony. Obama birth cert isn't doctored, but the leaked emails are. Hmmmm

 

[domino79]

I'm telling you, the Democratic party is on its last legs.

 

[Bill Cosby]

The Russian's probably have all of Clinton's emails. You think they'd blow their wad on the jackasses at the DNC to stop her from being POTUS?

As I've said before, those emails will get the same amount of corruption and influence billions of dollars of donations to the Clinton Foundation would buy.

 

[MrLair]

Spin spin spin

 

[MrLair]

Breaking news. Democratic party to hire PR spokesman Baghdad Bob.

 

[Anthony B]

Bernie fans just interrupted the prayer. And now the DMC just released a statement apologizing to Bernie supporters.

Karma is a bitch.

Those Bernie supporters seem like some real characters.

Yes. Not only that, but he doctored them to make it look even worse!

It's an absolute circus.

 

[UPSCat4080]

CNN is such a fu#*ing joke it is hilarious haha!

Russia stole emails to help Trump

We can't validate the authenticity of the emails

Schultz resignation was a long time coming and Hillary never wanted her....then why did the bit#* hire her directly after?

Trump train is about to steam roll the POS leaders of the Democratic Party.

 

[ukalumni00]

She has transitioned. Used to go by the name Dee Snider.

Debbie is not going to take it anymore

 

[qwesley]

Breaking news. Democratic party to hire PR spokesman Baghdad Bob.

Moe's cheaper

 

[Bill Cosby]

Moe's cheaper

But far less convincing.

 

[Willy4UK]

CNN is such a fu#*ing joke it is hilarious haha!

Russia stole emails to help Trump

We can't validate the authenticity of the emails

Schultz resignation was a long time coming and Hillary never wanted her....then why did the bit#* hire her directly after?

Trump train is about to steam roll the POS leaders of the Democratic Party.

I don't believe the Russians doctored any leaked emails. Didn't happen.

But if Hillary had never illegally had emails going to her personal server, then she wouldn't have to worry about anything, especially the Russians. She gambled and she got bit. Those emails on her personal server are fair game to the hacking world. Don't want that to happen., then Hillary shouldn't be breaking the law.

 

[-LEK-]

Uh, show me a post where I said anything like that. YOU are the one that made that sweeping generalization. So, yeah, you are pretty small.

I get reading comp is hard for you. Facts aren't important. Dems are the devil. Keep bashing away. Got it.

Perhaps if you say it enough, it becomes true?

 

[argubs2]

Recovered Email #420.12

DWS - "We need a strong demonstration presence....focus on granting access to those ready to go on camera berating Trump."

Unidentified DNC Associate - "No problem, will do. Anything else we should keep in mind?"

DWS - "You know, something about Vladimir Putin just really tantalizes me. The guy must have a trouser hog as big as a cucumber."

Unidentified DNC Associate - "Oh, for sure."

 

[ukalumni00]

I don't believe the Russians doctored any leaked emails. Didn't happen.

But if Hillary had never illegally had emails going to her personal server, then she wouldn't have to worry about anything, especially the Russians. She gambled and she got bit. Those emails on her personal server are fair game to the hacking world. Don't want that to happen., then Hillary shouldn't be breaking the law.

There is zero doubt in my mind someone or several have the emails she deleted and are just holding them until the right time.