Wow. SMH. Yeah, all of our problems are because of that. No changing you, so you can go down with the ship. The only we can increase a better country is to leave people like you out of the discussion. Which is happening. Thankfully.
POLITICAL THREAD
- Thread starter kybobcat
- Start date
Wow. SMH. Yeah, all of our problems are because of that. No changing you, so you can go down with the ship. The only we can increase a better country is to leave people like you out of the discussion. Which is happening. Thankfully.
I never said Trump destroyed the party. Pretty firm with saying Evangelicals destroyed it. You're causing the sinking of your own ship and don't even realize it.
Heisman, I don't care if a black person, a Tranny, or a Hermaphrodite is in the White House. What I do care is, letting some broad that is a KGB spy in the White House. I love America, Trump's wife is another AnnaChapman
But I agree with Qwes. Big Russian fat fitties are a plus even if they are serving against America's best interests.
Melania: "Vlad, I valmost I have dem vere I vant dem. Get the Gulag veddy, honey, Vomma is coming vome"
So basically it would be a James Bond movie come to life. How could anyone take issue with that? Ha.
It's gonna happen anyway Bill, but you're right. But after hearing the Russian spy speak last night. I re-affirm my vote to Johnson.
Heisman, you know that either of these candidates are putting Americans in a bad position to vote.
Neither were my choice. I would have been content with Scott Walker, Perry or Paul. Those were my three. I think Cruz would be great on the constitution for the Supreme Court but not the presidency. I didn't prefer Trump but if my alternative is to let Hillary get masses of illegals in here and stack the Supreme Court with far left nut jobs, I'm going with Trump.
Willy, One thing that is a certainty at every election is people are going to say each candidate is crap, it isn't something new for this election. It wouldn't matter if George Washington was running against Abe, people would say the candidates were crap. It's how people justify voting for who they choose publicly.
We don't know how a person will govern until they actually sit in the chair, all we have now is precursors.
Fair enough. Ignorance of the law is (with few exceptions) never an excuse. Driving citations are almost universally strict liability - no intent required. If you are driving 80 MPH thinking you are driving 65 MPH (bad gauge, installed huge tires, whatever), it doesn't matter. You didn't intend to speed, you didn't even intend to drive 80 MPH, and it doesn't matter. Crimes almost universally require intent (which itself is almost always proven via circumstantial evidence); citations almost never do.
18 U.S.C. 798: "Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person" classified information has committed a felony offense. "knowingly and willingly" is the intent required. Required to do what? "communicate, furnish, transmit, or otherwise make available to an unauthorized person" classified information. Clinton knowingly and willingly intended to use a private server. Clinton did use a private server. Clinton may or may not have knowingly and willingly intended to transmit classified information through the private server, but that intent could be shown via circumstantial evidence. So let's assume she intended that (and I think that is correct). Does that mean she knowingly and willingly intended to transmit classified information to unauthorized persons (because transmitting through a private server is less secure and unauthorized (hacking, etc..))? That's a closer call, but almost certainly no (I haven't seen anyone respectable make that point). Contrast with someone like Snowden: he clearly intended to transmit classified information to unauthorized users, and he did just that.
From what I've read (caveat that I'm not some type of expert in this legal field), gross negligence is a sufficient level of intent under this statute. Gross negligence (and regular ol' negligence) is not always clear, but it's generally defined as "a conscious and voluntary disregard of the need to use reasonable care, which is likely to cause foreseeable grave injury or harm to person, property, or both. It is conduct that is extreme when compared with ordinary negligence, which is a mere failure to exercise reasonable care." Generally, when terms like this appear in a given area of law, case law slowly (and often inconsistently) reveals what specific actions are on the mens rea (state of mind) scale, from negligence to gross negligence to recklessness to willful to etc... depending on the law. So to really know the answer, you have to look at case law on the statute or analogous statutes (IIRC, not much on this particular statute, making it even grayer). To me, her conduct was somewhere in the negligence to gross negligence range. One is criminal, the other not. That's where the argument lies. The FBI Director pretty much said negligence, and that's insufficient under this law.
Final word on this: I deal with intent all the time in different areas of law, and it's a pain in the butt every time. Literally had a 6 hour meeting discussing how plaintiffs (we're representing a defendant company) could show intent (reckless, in this case). Probably a combined 50+ years practicing law in this specific area in the room and it was still almost impossible to come up with a good answer (and case law rather developed with securities laws compared to the Espionage Act). It's not easy stuff, frankly.
I know, Bill. You're right. What kind of Trump will show up at the WH? The one who will listen to Republican guidance or will he be bat shit crazy and go straight Left? I dunno man. I was settled on Trump as of last night. But now I am not sure Trump will even listen to Republican leaders. And I am not convinced he can be trusted with the SCOTUS that picks that Heisman is hanging his hat on.
Clearly you have WarriorCat on ignore.
I just said it was an interesting choice of words. But you're a real victim, Heisman. Grab yourself a Coors, sit down on the Lazy-Boy, and relax for a bit, champ. You've had it rough.
That's why I tend to look to governors for presidential candidates. Everything Christie (may his political ambition rest in peace) said to Rubio is true. 50 miniature democracy and governance labs with executives leading them, and we keep nominating senators and... this year's crop of America's finest.
I think the left fans infuriate me more than any actual left political figure:
About 20 social media posts today about Melania stealing her speech, which to begin with, really isn't a big deal. Regardless, not a SINGLE ONE OF THEM, bothered to read up on stealing speeches, or even acknowledge that Obama stole his speech back in 2008.
But that's not even the worst part. Fine, you made a mistake because you let the leftist media drive you around.. no big deal. But how about acknowledge that you effed up? Maybe delete your post? Maybe make an amendment with YOUR guy doing the same thing? Nope, no one will do that, and that will perpetuate this slanted view to over 10,000 people to see.
About 20 social media posts today about Melania stealing her speech, which to begin with, really isn't a big deal. Regardless, not a SINGLE ONE OF THEM, bothered to read up on stealing speeches, or even acknowledge that Obama stole his speech back in 2008.
But that's not even the worst part. Fine, you made a mistake because you let the leftist media drive you around.. no big deal. But how about acknowledge that you effed up? Maybe delete your post? Maybe make an amendment with YOUR guy doing the same thing? Nope, no one will do that, and that will perpetuate this slanted view to over 10,000 people to see.
So, pretty busy this morning, no idea about the plagiarism until I checked this thread. Lord knows I have no interest in defending Trump, let alone his wife, but if this summary from USAToday captures the whole thing - then, meh. Not exactly Four Score and Seven Years Ago that she uttered....
"Here's the excerpt from Obama in 2008:
"And Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them.
"And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values, and to pass them on to the next generation. Because we want our children — and all children in this nation — to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
And here's the passage from Trump's remarks Monday night that came under scrutiny:
“From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect.
"They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son. And we need to pass those lessons on to the many generations to follow. Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”
"Here's the excerpt from Obama in 2008:
"And Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them.
"And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values, and to pass them on to the next generation. Because we want our children — and all children in this nation — to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
And here's the passage from Trump's remarks Monday night that came under scrutiny:
“From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect.
"They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son. And we need to pass those lessons on to the many generations to follow. Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”
Point being, gross negligence was the standard. Comey said no reasonable prosecutor would prosecute her since she did not intend to break the law.
So regardless of the statute on the books, we have no idea how a speeding statute would apply to Hilary Clinton.
So regardless of the statute on the books, we have no idea how a speeding statute would apply to Hilary Clinton.
Have people actually read what Michelle Obama said? Please read that and think back on the past 8 years. Remarkable how much shit she was full of.
I honestly need help with this....When Hillary gave the thumb drive to her lawyers with the classified emails, did she meet the intent portion?
I know they ended up with an interim clearance, but I do not believe it was for SAP or SCI/TS.
Don't let the convention decide for you one way or the other, it's just theater. The media is going to be relentless on him till the election, now isn't the time to get weak knee'd.
Our nation is in a funk, as bad as I can remember, and a large part of it is because we have politicians in charge whose livelihood depends on them getting elected. They try to appease everyone, or buy them off. We need someone to DO what needs to be done.
I don't know if Trump is that person or not, but I know Hillary isn't. She is fake, everything about her is manufactured, and personally I'd rather have a leader that tells me what they think instead of what they think I want to hear.
Here's the thing. Greasy Michelle never meant a word of what she said. She was simply telling America what they wanted to hear.
How do you know that Trump isn't doing that right now? We know Hillary is a lying sack of shit, but we honestly can't say that about Trump without using our heart to rationalize to a conclusion.
All it boils down to me is, can Trump be trusted not be a liberal?
Big Blue, We got Trump because people are sick and tired of the shit going on with ALL politicians.
People are mad as hell with the state of the Union.
If Trump preaches jobs and safety he's going to win the Presidency. He's going to get a lot of middle class votes that usually vote democrat.
People are mad as hell with the state of the Union.
If Trump preaches jobs and safety he's going to win the Presidency. He's going to get a lot of middle class votes that usually vote democrat.
insulting. she looks like a feminine gorilla. get real. shame on you.
Remember when people on here used to say we needed a businessman not another politician to be President?
I just said it was an interesting choice of words. But you're a real victim, Heisman. Grab yourself a Coors, sit down on the Lazy-Boy, and relax for a bit, champ. You've had it rough.
.
I find the use of Coors Light very offensive. I'd never drink that horse piss.
Yes we do - strict liability. And gross negligence is intent, so Comey was saying they could not find gross negligence.
Do we have a businessman running?
I see a reality TV caricature and a corrupt politician.
I would never sentence you to a Coors, then (I just like Sam Elliott's voice). A craft beer of your choice; Left-Hand Nitro Milk Stout work?
Just read something by someone, former speechwriter, and he says it has to be intentional. As in, sabotage. He points to Rick Astley as the evidence. heh.
I think the rub is that it's rightly believed gross negligence would have been found for anyone else (or at least not a high ranking politician) in the same situation. So, you're right that it wasn't as simple as her having the server was immediately a felony, but it's obviously against the law based on the rules 99.9999% of the population plays by
3 cases of multi drug resentent TB from foreign born refugees where found in Nashville in 2014 and 2015.
Was the speech very similar? Absolutely. Was it plagiarism? No. Discussing hard work and trustworthiness are pretty general terms to discuss. It's not as if Michelle was the first to mention them.
They no intent excuse was garbage. Short of a recorded admission, every case needs circumstantial evidence to prove intent.
Some statutes are strictly liability: speeding, statutory rape, etc. This was not.
This is the part no one's paying attention to.
They no intent excuse was garbage. Short of a recorded admission, every case needs circumstantial evidence to prove intent.
Some statutes are strictly liability: speeding, statutory rape, etc. This was not.
This is the part no one's paying attention to.
Similar threads
