POLITICAL THREAD

[KoraeyCat]

Do you realize that there have been studies that show conservatives donate a much larger percent of their income to charity than do liberals. I don't think the issue conservatives have with social programs has anything to do with "muh paycheck" as you put it. The issue comes down to what is appropriate for the Federal Government to be doing in a society built around the concept individual liberty. Many don't believe it is appropriate for the Federal Government to take money for anything outside of the operation of the government itself. In other words, in a free society, each person should get to choose what they want to do with their money and who they want to give it to. The government has dibs on what they need to operate, but not on who we choose to donate to. If citizens don't have that right, then we aren't really free. The government can ultimately decide to tax for the purpose of anything they choose and coerce any behavior they want.

It’s why we should research the policies and past interviews of who we vote for, then (attempt to) hold them accountable while they’re in office. Social welfare programs are here to stay, in one capacity or another. Vote for whoever best aligns with your views and hope they don’t fall prey to donors and special interest groups.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Here's what more becomes clearer every moment imo:

Dems had this impeachment lined up ready to go from before day 1 of the trump presidency. It was only the fallback if they couldn't stop him from taking office through either arrest or passive coup by bribing/pressuring EC voters.

The entire impeachment scheme was all laid out. It would be the results of the Mueller report. Mueller would say he found collusion, or something else (since they were investigating him and his entire family and friends list). There the Dems would have their high crime. Funny thing happened - Mueller and his band of merry crooks were exposed and their credibility shot. So they couldn't risk it. And they literally couldn't find anything else to go with.

Dems then panic. They need something ANYTHING to drive impeachment because they know they have the house votes. So they line up this whistleblower complaint. First they remove all those inconvenient requirements that it be first hand knowledge, etc. Then they have it written by a law firm. Then Schiff and co lay the pr foundation weeks ahead of time.

Their internal polls must look terrible. Internally they must've basically conceded this election already. They must know this is their only shot. Otherwise no way they'd make THIS move on THIS allegation which was so easily proved false.

 

[screwduke1]

Bill, I work for one of those large insurance companies. An environment where 90% of people have insurance and a majority of those being insured through their employers is the primary culprit for healthcare cost inflation. The genie is out of the bottle.

I don't know if you have any animals and visit a veterinarian with any regularity but it's happening there too. Here at least there are quite a few employers who offer veterinarian insurance. I first came across it about 20 yrs ago. Apparently it is starting to become more commonplace and with it prices for veterinary services are rising quickly. Vets here almost expect that you are insured (I'm not at this point).

It doesn't seem to have yet hit the area of Ky where I'm from because when making anecdotal comparisons with friends/family for same vs same services they are considerably less expensive there than here.
Moral of the story...costs will rise to consume all available money.

Having private, for-profit insurance companies being the middleman for essential services like health care is a recipe for runway costs. Providers have a product that is in all essence...essential and insurance companies look at the costs, add in profit and then set rates. Healthcare costs for any given population are rather predictable. It isn't like homeowners or other property insurance where a natural disaster could result is massive losses for the carrier...I guess it could happen but is very unlikely that the carriers would be asked to pay in that instance.
So where are the incentives to control costs?

A part of our business is state Medicaid plans. In those Medicaid plans we are paid $X per enrollee by the state and we in turn pay providers for services rendered. We have an incentive to keep those populations healthy because every dollar that we don't pay providers goes into our pockets. We make sure that they take their medications, that they keep appointments, etc. If we see they may need a service they aren't seeking...we try to get them access to those services. We track provider results and direct people to those providers who have the best outcomes. It's to our advantage that they be healthy, there is no advantage to denying services if those services will make the individual more healthy. We are also graded by state and can receive bonuses if perform well.

When was the last time your health insurance carrier checked on you?
Mine have never called me. My wife recently went through cancer treatments and they never called her...
They process your claims...and that's it.

As long as providers can continue to raise rates they will do so. Insurance companies will follow suit because who can afford to be without coverage?

At this point the only way to control costs is a "Medicaid for all" (as opposed to Medicare for all) that sets a budget of healthcare expenditures and forces the healthcare industry to control costs. The healthcare industry would be incentivized to keep us healthy because a healthy population is less expensive to maintain.
Today we have it bass-ackwards... the more care they provide, the wealthier they become. The healthcare system today is incentivized to keep you dependent upon it. That's not how it works in other western advanced countries and that's why they spend about 60% of the healthcare dollars as do we...and have healthier populations.

^ Imagine typing all of that out and expecting people to read all of it.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[Bill Derington]

Starting to wonder if Mitt's kids aren't involved in similar situations.

I read somewhere that Romney's 2012 campaign manager was on the same board in Ukraine that Hunter Biden was on. Not sure about the validity of that though.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

This is all the lefts fault. AOC claims this woman had a mental disorder but her rhetoric put that in her head. Plus, greta thunberg also has a mental condition yet that dudnt stop her from pushing her as a prop.

 

[Joerules19]

^ Imagine typing all of that out and expecting people to read all of it.

Imagine having a thought that isn't someone else's tweet or meme

 

[TheFrontRunner]

Gee I wonder which groups the The New York Times wants to silence.

 

[Dionysus444]

Here's what more becomes clearer every moment imo:

Dems had this impeachment lined up ready to go from before day 1 of the trump presidency. It was only the fallback if they couldn't stop him from taking office through either arrest or passive coup by bribing/pressuring EC voters.

The entire impeachment scheme was all laid out. It would be the results of the Mueller report. Mueller would say he found collusion, or something else (since they were investigating him and his entire family and friends list). There the Dems would have their high crime. Funny thing happened - Mueller and his band of merry crooks were exposed and their credibility shot. So they couldn't risk it. And they literally couldn't find anything else to go with.

Dems then panic. They need something ANYTHING to drive impeachment because they know they have the house votes. So they line up this whistleblower complaint. First they remove all those inconvenient requirements that it be first hand knowledge, etc. Then they have it written by a law firm. Then Schiff and co lay the pr foundation weeks ahead of time.

Their internal polls must look terrible. Internally they must've basically conceded this election already. They must know this is their only shot. Otherwise no way they'd make THIS move on THIS allegation which was so easily proved false.

This entire line of thinking that impeachment is an attempted coup is nonsense. How could the Dems have a master plan to illegitimately depose Trump that relies on getting a two-thirds majority in the Senate?

 

[Mashburned]

The White House is reportedly drafting a letter to Pelosi asking for an impeachment vote.

LMAO

Hitler is literally asking for an impeachment vote, and democrats won't do it - this is a Hitler who has colluded with half the countries on this planet to destroy our democracy. Democrats won't do nothing! Sad!

 

[rqarnold]

^ Imagine typing all of that out and expecting people to read all of it.

Imagine being so intellectually lazy that reading something that might take 30 seconds to read...45 if you're really slow, is too much.
And you wonder why people see you as willfully ignorant.

 

[Dionysus444]

Bill, I work for one of those large insurance companies. An environment where 90% of people have insurance and a majority of those being insured through their employers is the primary culprit for healthcare cost inflation. The genie is out of the bottle.

I don't know if you have any animals and visit a veterinarian with any regularity but it's happening there too. Here at least there are quite a few employers who offer veterinarian insurance. I first came across it about 20 yrs ago. Apparently it is starting to become more commonplace and with it prices for veterinary services are rising quickly. Vets here almost expect that you are insured (I'm not at this point).

It doesn't seem to have yet hit the area of Ky where I'm from because when making anecdotal comparisons with friends/family for same vs same services they are considerably less expensive there than here.
Moral of the story...costs will rise to consume all available money.

Having private, for-profit insurance companies being the middleman for essential services like health care is a recipe for runway costs. Providers have a product that is in all essence...essential and insurance companies look at the costs, add in profit and then set rates. Healthcare costs for any given population are rather predictable. It isn't like homeowners or other property insurance where a natural disaster could result is massive losses for the carrier...I guess it could happen but is very unlikely that the carriers would be asked to pay in that instance.
So where are the incentives to control costs?

A part of our business is state Medicaid plans. In those Medicaid plans we are paid $X per enrollee by the state and we in turn pay providers for services rendered. We have an incentive to keep those populations healthy because every dollar that we don't pay providers goes into our pockets. We make sure that they take their medications, that they keep appointments, etc. If we see they may need a service they aren't seeking...we try to get them access to those services. We track provider results and direct people to those providers who have the best outcomes. It's to our advantage that they be healthy, there is no advantage to denying services if those services will make the individual more healthy. We are also graded by state and can receive bonuses if perform well.

When was the last time your health insurance carrier checked on you?
Mine have never called me. My wife recently went through cancer treatments and they never called her...
They process your claims...and that's it.

As long as providers can continue to raise rates they will do so. Insurance companies will follow suit because who can afford to be without coverage?

At this point the only way to control costs is a "Medicaid for all" (as opposed to Medicare for all) that sets a budget of healthcare expenditures and forces the healthcare industry to control costs. The healthcare industry would be incentivized to keep us healthy because a healthy population is less expensive to maintain.
Today we have it bass-ackwards... the more care they provide, the wealthier they become. The healthcare system today is incentivized to keep you dependent upon it. That's not how it works in other western advanced countries and that's why they spend about 60% of the healthcare dollars as do we...and have healthier populations.

^ Imagine typing all of that out and expecting people to read all of it.

Imagine having a thought that isn't someone else's tweet or meme

They're trolls, led by their Twitter Troll in Chief. Most on the right have not been arguing in good faith since they started to realize they were losing the culture war.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[Bill Cosby]

Ya this is where Im at as well. I feel horrible for those families but also find it hard to see how MGM is at fault here. I mean no hotels have metal detections or anything like that. What was MGM supposed to do in that situation? Unless a couple guns like fell out of his luggage and they put it back in his bag for him, I have a hard time putting MGM at fault for this.

It would be great if we had more information on this and maybe we could see how MGM was at fault, but since we have basically all the same information as we did the next day of the shooting, guess that will never happen.

I’m a big conspiracy theorist. And I’ve not looked at a single detail.

So my initial thought is some behind the scenes players are going to make MGM whole for just taking the fall, shutting this down and preventing discovery or any more questions.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Bill, I work for one of those large insurance companies. An environment where 90% of people have insurance and a majority of those being insured through their employers is the primary culprit for healthcare cost inflation. The genie is out of the bottle.

I don't know if you have any animals and visit a veterinarian with any regularity but it's happening there too. Here at least there are quite a few employers who offer veterinarian insurance. I first came across it about 20 yrs ago. Apparently it is starting to become more commonplace and with it prices for veterinary services are rising quickly. Vets here almost expect that you are insured (I'm not at this point).

It doesn't seem to have yet hit the area of Ky where I'm from because when making anecdotal comparisons with friends/family for same vs same services they are considerably less expensive there than here.
Moral of the story...costs will rise to consume all available money.

Having private, for-profit insurance companies being the middleman for essential services like health care is a recipe for runway costs. Providers have a product that is in all essence...essential and insurance companies look at the costs, add in profit and then set rates. Healthcare costs for any given population are rather predictable. It isn't like homeowners or other property insurance where a natural disaster could result is massive losses for the carrier...I guess it could happen but is very unlikely that the carriers would be asked to pay in that instance.
So where are the incentives to control costs?

A part of our business is state Medicaid plans. In those Medicaid plans we are paid $X per enrollee by the state and we in turn pay providers for services rendered. We have an incentive to keep those populations healthy because every dollar that we don't pay providers goes into our pockets. We make sure that they take their medications, that they keep appointments, etc. If we see they may need a service they aren't seeking...we try to get them access to those services. We track provider results and direct people to those providers who have the best outcomes. It's to our advantage that they be healthy, there is no advantage to denying services if those services will make the individual more healthy. We are also graded by state and can receive bonuses if perform well.

When was the last time your health insurance carrier checked on you?
Mine have never called me. My wife recently went through cancer treatments and they never called her...
They process your claims...and that's it.

As long as providers can continue to raise rates they will do so. Insurance companies will follow suit because who can afford to be without coverage?

At this point the only way to control costs is a "Medicaid for all" (as opposed to Medicare for all) that sets a budget of healthcare expenditures and forces the healthcare industry to control costs. The healthcare industry would be incentivized to keep us healthy because a healthy population is less expensive to maintain.
Today we have it bass-ackwards... the more care they provide, the wealthier they become. The healthcare system today is incentivized to keep you dependent upon it. That's not how it works in other western advanced countries and that's why they spend about 60% of the healthcare dollars as do we...and have healthier populations.

This is pure lunacy. The government taking over the health insurance industry will not make things cheaper.


1. Promote HSA use
2. Allow individuals to deduct health insurance premiums rather than just companies and self employed
3. Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines
4. As a requirement of licensing medical professionals and practices, require them to post the price of their procedures and prevent them from charging different rates for cash, insured or government payer

Why not start with those 4 things that would take 5 pages of legislation rather than jumping to the federal government nationalizing the insurance industry?

Name one industry where federal government involvement has made things cheaper (and where the federal government hasn’t lost shit loads of taxpayer money like the post office).

 

[bigblueinsanity]

View embedded media

It was never meant to actually sell. Just like this nonsense book Jones is writing, it's nothing more than a cleansed payoff/campaign contribution. Nothing more. No amount way any degree of market research told either publisher either book was worth paying for .

 

[Mashburned]

Fuzz said "veterinary insurance".

 

[Mashburned]

It was never meant to actually sell. Just like this nonsense book Jones is writing, it's nothing more than a cleansed payoff/campaign contribution. Nothing more. No amount way any degree of market research told either publisher either book was worth paying for .

Bingo

 

[bigblueinsanity]

This entire line of thinking that impeachment is an attempted coup is nonsense. How could the Dems have a master plan to illegitimately depose Trump that relies on getting a two-thirds majority in the Senate?

Read my post. It's desperation. They didn't plan to be here but this is their only shot. It's a hail Mary.

That's why the media and blue checks are all running with the propaganda that the gol should abandon him

 

[cat_chaser]

I’m talking about funding for programs that help the ultra-poor. It’s such a tiny amount. Those who cry about “muh paycheck” are of the entitled, selfish, not-my-problem variety, IMO.

They love to brag about how they “help” poor people though. On some “bless your heart” shit with a $50 tip on a $20 tab around Christmas time.

These are, of course, the same people who either don’t understand or are blissfully ignorant to the fact that generational poverty is increasingly hard to escape. For every success story that someone will no doubt post in response, there are thousands who were on the cusp of overcoming serious poverty and then got thrown backward by one of life’s wild pitches.

Brother, I’ve spent the majority of my career dealing with the people you are taking about. I’ve been in the homes, I’ve guided and assisted them in finding the services they need, and I have first hand knowledge of the vast amount of programs that are available (and their outrageous cost/funding). And that doesn’t touch food stamps, unemployment, disability, and other tax eating programs.

You think it’s a tiny amount? Medicaid alone - with covering medical bills and medications along with their vast waiver programs - can bankrupt a state. Ands that WITH federal assistance with the funding. There is literally nothing tiny about it.

In fact, it was so unsustainable I had to leave my job of 13 years in 2016 due to reimbursement cuts of my services (almost in half). And it’s not like I was making 6 figures.

Of all the people I have worked with most needed the help. However, there is a healthy percentage out there abusing the system. And those that are abusing it do it to the MAX. Either way, the amount of programs out there and the tax money it takes to fund them is hardly a tiny amount.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

The former US special envoy for Ukraine told House lawmakers on Thursday that he warned President Donald Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani that the information he was receiving from Ukrainian political figures about former Vice President Joe Biden and his son was not credible

No shit. Guiliani is a cousin ****er cross dressing moron.

What else did he tell them though? Go on. Paste it. I heard Schiff was devastated.

Since you won't paste it I will. The actual documents at that. Not some third hand account relayed from a lying D to an activists pretending to be a journalist



PS Motive is not required under 18 USC 208 so whatever Volker "thinks" about Biden's motivation is irrelevant. Besides we all know it wasn't money anyway. His was motivated by protecting his son.

What matters is Volker admitted it was Biden who got the prosecutor fired and we have Biden on video admitting he used US money as a bribe to force it.

 

[Dionysus444]

Brother, I’ve spent the majority of my career dealing with the people you are taking about. I’ve been in the homes, I’ve guided and assisted them in finding the services they need, and I have first hand knowledge of the vast amount of programs that are available (and their outrageous cost/funding). And that doesn’t touch food stamps, unemployment, disability, and other tax eating programs.

You think it’s a tiny amount? Medicaid alone - with covering medical bills and medications along with their vast waiver programs - can bankrupt a state. Ands that WITH federal assistance with the funding. There is literally nothing tiny about it.

In fact, it was so unsustainable I had to leave my job of 13 years in 2016 due to reimbursement cuts of my services (almost in half). And it’s not like I was making 6 figures.

Of all the people I have worked with most needed the help. However, there is a healthy percentage out there abusing the system. And those that are abusing it do it to the MAX. Either way, the amount of programs out there and the tax money it takes to fund them is hardly a tiny amount.

Which is why we should transition to a UBI. As you said, most of the people need it, the few that it abuse it abuse the crap out of everything they can. So make flat payments to everyone. All the people who need it get it, and the scammers have no big systems to scam more out of.

 

[KRJ1975]

4 MLB playoff games today, opening day at Keeneland, and the premiere of Smackdown on Fox, and you guys are still talking politics? Grab a budweiser and enjoy the rest of the afternoon fellas. Summer is finally over.

 

[cat_chaser]

Which is why we should transition to a UBI. As you said, most of the people need it, the few that it abuse it abuse the crap out of everything they can. So make flat payments to everyone. All the people who need it get it, and the scammers have no big systems to scam more out of.

It’s like trying to educate a tree.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

 

[TheFrontRunner]

Everyone stop and watch with sound on...'look at me. I'm strong' hahahaha

 

[vhcat70]

This entire line of thinking that impeachment is an attempted coup is nonsense. How could the Dems have a master plan to illegitimately depose Trump that relies on getting a two-thirds majority in the Senate?

You're a total DA. Impeachment occurs in the House & takes just 217 Dimwits.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

Ds colluding with terrorists to hack the election.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Dementia joe makes claims that women werent around be the 70s and other batshit "where am I" statements

 

[Bill Cosby]

Which is why we should transition to a UBI. As you said, most of the people need it, the few that it abuse it abuse the crap out of everything they can. So make flat payments to everyone. All the people who need it get it, and the scammers have no big systems to scam more out of.

What do you think happens to prices when you’re dropping money from the proverbial helicopter?

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

 

[duke4life831]

Everyone stop and watch with sound on...'look at me. I'm strong' hahahaha

View embedded media

Zinedine Zidane is that you?

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Bill, I work for one of those large insurance companies. An environment where 90% of people have insurance and a majority of those being insured through their employers is the primary culprit for healthcare cost inflation. The genie is out of the bottle.

I don't know if you have any animals and visit a veterinarian with any regularity but it's happening there too. Here at least there are quite a few employers who offer veterinarian insurance. I first came across it about 20 yrs ago. Apparently it is starting to become more commonplace and with it prices for veterinary services are rising quickly. Vets here almost expect that you are insured (I'm not at this point).

It doesn't seem to have yet hit the area of Ky where I'm from because when making anecdotal comparisons with friends/family for same vs same services they are considerably less expensive there than here.
Moral of the story...costs will rise to consume all available money.

Having private, for-profit insurance companies being the middleman for essential services like health care is a recipe for runway costs. Providers have a product that is in all essence...essential and insurance companies look at the costs, add in profit and then set rates. Healthcare costs for any given population are rather predictable. It isn't like homeowners or other property insurance where a natural disaster could result is massive losses for the carrier...I guess it could happen but is very unlikely that the carriers would be asked to pay in that instance.
So where are the incentives to control costs?

A part of our business is state Medicaid plans. In those Medicaid plans we are paid $X per enrollee by the state and we in turn pay providers for services rendered. We have an incentive to keep those populations healthy because every dollar that we don't pay providers goes into our pockets. We make sure that they take their medications, that they keep appointments, etc. If we see they may need a service they aren't seeking...we try to get them access to those services. We track provider results and direct people to those providers who have the best outcomes. It's to our advantage that they be healthy, there is no advantage to denying services if those services will make the individual more healthy. We are also graded by state and can receive bonuses if perform well.

When was the last time your health insurance carrier checked on you?
Mine have never called me. My wife recently went through cancer treatments and they never called her...
They process your claims...and that's it.

As long as providers can continue to raise rates they will do so. Insurance companies will follow suit because who can afford to be without coverage?

At this point the only way to control costs is a "Medicaid for all" (as opposed to Medicare for all) that sets a budget of healthcare expenditures and forces the healthcare industry to control costs. The healthcare industry would be incentivized to keep us healthy because a healthy population is less expensive to maintain.
Today we have it bass-ackwards... the more care they provide, the wealthier they become. The healthcare system today is incentivized to keep you dependent upon it. That's not how it works in other western advanced countries and that's why they spend about 60% of the healthcare dollars as do we...and have healthier populations.

I have three comments. First, there is no question you are right about the impact comprehensive insurance has on costs. Comprehensive insurance destroys the price signal and therefore leads to higher escalation of costs than would be possible with intact price signals.

Second, I don't believe the kind of intervention you talk about with patients is typical. From what I have seen first hand and just from a practical standpoint, that kind of constant intervention would be extremely expensive and would require a huge amount of staff to keep on top of all the patients they have.

Third, there is no proof that the healthcare systems in countries with socialized healthcare leads to healthier populations as you suggest. There are lots of factors involved how healthy a population is. Diet, exercise, stress, etc., contribute to the overall health of a population. You can't just make the link that the healthcare system has created a healthier population. In fact, I would be very skeptical of such a claim no matter where I read it.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

I swear democrats will call in a terrorist attack on our own country after all their other stunts have failed to try to win this election

 

[screwduke1]

4 MLB playoff games today, opening day at Keeneland, and the premiere of Smackdown on Fox, and you guys are still talking politics? Grab a budweiser and enjoy the rest of the afternoon fellas. Summer is finally over.

I hate baseball lol. I might like it if my city had a team but it doesn't.

 

[P19978]

Imagine having a thought that isn't someone else's tweet or meme

Coming from a lib... this is hilarious.

Talk about lack of self awareness lol

 

[Dionysus444]

You're a total DA. Impeachment occurs in the House & takes just 217 Dimwits.

Did you not follow the conversation? We were talking about removal from office which requires conviction which needs two-thirds of the Senate...

 

[anon_l8pbkn96tg3j6]

It was never meant to actually sell. Just like this nonsense book Jones is writing, it's nothing more than a cleansed payoff/campaign contribution. Nothing more. No amount way any degree of market research told either publisher either book was worth paying for .

That actually makes way more sense than "here's some money first time author Matt, take your pun across the state and grow it into a book"

 

[AustinTXCat]

I've heard some conservatives call AOC stupid.
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