POLITICAL THREAD

[bigbluefattycat]

I think universal healthcare and ending the war on drugs in such a way as to treat drugs like the drug alcohol, would end a massive amount of problems in this country. Wealthy Americans think of money, sick people think of getting healthy. Stopping the war on drugs may be radical thinking but I don't see what has happened the last forty years as a success story or anything but a huge waste of revenue. I would concentrate on controlling violence in our homes, on our women, children and minorities. Fact is drugs are more in demand now than when there were no laws concerning them. I would end the war on labor and support unions rather than enforce business oriented solutions like Right to Work as anything other than the masked charade it is. Working people did not pen that effort to end all union representation, it was the business roundtable that wants complete control over labor that introduced that misnomer. I would break the hold big pharm has on drug pricing in this country including pot. Exactly why do other countries get a price break when American citizens pay 8-10 times the price? I would make every corporations clean up their environmental mess on their dime and penalize them for the time the mess exists. I would put people who hire illegals in prison for at least a year, taking their money won't work but taking their time will get their attention. I would make CEO's and board members culpable for the actions of the corporations they are supposed to over see. I would go to public financing our elections, use the popular vote until 65% of the electorate actually feels the need to vote and only then trigger the electoral college. Maybe the most important thing I would do is I would in every case make the American citizen primary and superior to any and all corporations---I would end the notion that corporations are more important than the citizens of this country. I would make the environment something of a sacred gift that we are presently affecting for our posterity and stop treating the earth like a garbage dump. I would do everything to change the notion of people who think of money as their God and try to educate them about the importance of their neighbor. I would make education a priority and enforce the idea of separation of any Church and State and bring back net neutrality. I would work to make the American citizen the benefactor of the American government regardless of race, creed, or color. A lot of that isn't really socialism in pure form but to tell you the truth the idea of the American citizen being a priority over American business appeals to me and I think honest businessmen could prosper along with the country as whole. I also know there is a bluebird on my shoulder.

OK....warning
I read your post -- and then thought....I'll just acknowledge some of the seeds of good ideas he has there

Then I thought.....I could brainstorm with him and add some of my own as President Wyvern Rubric-san

Then.....this $hit storm happened.......and I'm still running through ideas and correlations .......I don't know if I want to hug you or poison your coffee with GMO Dog Doo


-----------Das sheisse-------------

Sounds like you have plenty of noble intent and good ideas on places to at least Try and focus our resources to make improvements.....some of those ideas seem to carry more specifics than others

Was that just from your trying to avoid writing a thesis - or have you actually thought through some of those would-be initiatives in more detail?
Maybe you're just more passionate about some than others?

Have you thought about how you would evaluate whether or not your program were having the desired intent?

Would you attempt to enact universal health care while also extending it to non citizens?
Would you consider out right eliminating some govt pgm's or agencies?
Sounds like SAMSHA might be one that would be overhauled under your new approach to the 'war' on drugs

Your approach to the environment - that's a great example of an issue where you can make strides in a positive direction --- but you could see your gains wiped out with 'cross contamination' from nearby nations that aren't doing what you're doing (doesn't mean you don't try to make improvements though right?)


You mention health care -- and I like the idea of cutting some of our own defense spending in order to invest in better coverage / access for citizens.

Healthcare quality would be addressed by making sure that we take a long hard look at things that SEEM like improvements -- but are probably going to blow up in our faces (AI, Robotic surgeons, genetic manipulation and others)

Also address quality by making sure we have a standing forum where Epidemiologists & Medical Dr's team up internationally to monitor and evaluate drug resistant strains of pathogens - and demand that our immunization programs simplify their schedules and re-define what's considered critical.....borders have to be controlled in the light of public health as well

Other contributing factors have to be considered in that forum --- what's the effect of GMO foods? Insecticides and herbicides?


I'd also force a closer relationship between public health / prevention efforts (CDC) and the healthcare world

That includes streamlined funding and collaborative mobility / mortality reduction goals for CDC programs that are clearly "related"
(right now for example diabetes research gets funded and managed separately from Diet/Nutrition/Physical Activity....even though they're two programs that should be linked conceptually as well as programmatically)

I'd halt all weather manipulation sciences and programs overnight by Executive Order and make that a formal announcement at the UN Gen Assy


I'd declare an end to the global war on terror and start pivoting away from our current alignment with Saudi Arabia -
We'd pull out of NATO and encourage that defunct old lady to close shop

I'd align more closely with our neighbors in this hemisphere
Make it easier for actual labor migrants to come and work - and get them under a consumption tax

I'd set fire to Neydland stadium while piss drunk and wearing a clown mask / no pants

I'd allow Japanese armed forces to practice their new freedom to deploy overseas -- but assigning them to NC Chapel Hill with the orders to systematically (and politically)_ dismantle everything related to UNC basketball

All those great ideas and nothing about the dirty ass banks? End the FED and their shake down army IRS. <--- Start here and then go down y'alls checklist.

 

[JStaff2187]

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Wonder if she grinds her teeth when she types “president Trump”?

 

[CastleRubric]

Banks / Fed is another target rich environment -- I like economic related topics too -- but it's not my strong suit......I don't know that I have any ideas there......stop talk about going to crypto's for wide scale 'currency' maybe?

Hell I had a nearly 3 hour conversation with a friend / fellow musician from GA last night -- and I STRUGGLED to follow him on basic ideas of global inflation

Not my strong suit at all - but I am almost always interested in the back and forth when it happens

 

[CastleRubric]

If everyone in this thread can’t at least get behind the last 2 ideas, then you’re dead to me.

here's another thing that bothers me with the current iteration of socialists in the USA

there's really no serious effort being made to have a public dialogue about how they're going to make things better

and within / or at least VERY close to their circles -- there's a lot of emphasis on social issues that are increasingly bizarre and fruitless at best
(transgender / gender fluid / sex with kids might be ok / make sure GI's can lop off their penis and wear a dress if they REALLY want to / make sure non citizens can Vote and receive tax benefits / etc)


^ not only does that shit come off sounding like a babbling pack of deranged lunatics.....but those issues ALL have analogs within the original frame work of Marx / Engels vision

Destroying the family was an openly promoted concept from those asshats -- upending social order with chaos and stressing the economic system so that it BREAKS .....

that's what I hear when that crap gets screamed and amplified by the mindless prostitutes in the media

 

[Levibooty]

Socialism 'should be met with healthy skepticism (not screaming - I'm not coming from a. 'screaming' POV here -- just the opposite actually)

Honestly -- would you seriously consider the merits of a re-vamoed German National Socialist Workers party (i.e. Nazis) emerging and running for office with an 'improved' platform?

You probably wouldn't -
Why not?
They got the perm-ban didn't they?

I feel the same way about Marxist ideology - it should likewise be eliminated from any serious consideration within our political system


Socialism per Marx will call for the overthrow or replacement of the system we currently have (among other things - confiscation of private property / yada yada)

So is Ms Cortez coming from the Marxist school of thought or is she specifically rebuking that and explaining in detail how another path is possible?
(not trying to set you up here - I really just don't know)



Do you agree that calling for the overthrow or replacement of our constitutional republic is 'off limits' for any revised socialist that becomes active?



Once you realize the scale of horror and brutality that happened at their hand
And once you take a look at the modern socialists F'ing it up again in South America AND South Africa right now......it's easy to come to a place where. it just doesn't make sense to even consisdering their ideas anymore

but admittedly I AM intrigued by the Pre Marx ideas that the French had
so I think that's where YOU are probably coming from .....

so what are some specific programs / budget decisions that you see Neo-Socialists making?

(meanwhile I'll pull up the book I have that outlines some of the earlier ideas on SOC that no one hears about anymore -- will post anything that seems relevant and cite the book in case you think it might be worth getting etc)

This line of thought is only supported by the belief that all socialism ends with communism and I for one don't think that as an absolute. The Nordic countries are the example of how socialism can be intertwined with capitalism as you have referred to already. Some here have said the Nordic model is capitalism with a smattering of socialism, some have called it socialism when in fact it is a healthy dose of both. I think that unregulated capitalism has already shown itself to be a failure in this country twice already. In 1929 and then again in 2007. I have faith in neither one without restraint in the form of regulation. Again in the end the system is not what fails it is the failure of men that brings about demise. It is not the system that is in need of regulation but the men who operate within the system. That is what I think.

 

[CrittendenWildcat]

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Trump should respond:
The winning one!

 

[Levibooty]

All those great ideas and nothing about the dirty ass banks? End the FED and their shake down army IRS. <--- Start here and then go down y'alls checklist.

Believe me I think the banks are crooked as frick and frack but I do not know enough about economics and fiscal policy to propose doing away with the Fed. The world is far different than the 19th century. But I wholeheartedly agree the banks are in need of major reform.

 

[Dionysus444]

Socialism 'should be met with healthy skepticism (not screaming - I'm not coming from a. 'screaming' POV here -- just the opposite actually)

You're faaaar more rational than most posters here, was more referring to them with the screaming line than you.

So is Ms Cortez coming from the Marxist school of thought or is she specifically rebuking that and explaining in detail how another path is possible?
(not trying to set you up here - I really just don't know)

So far she seems to be primarily interested in worker's rights, not ideological battles. Could just be another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation though, will have to wait and see.

Do you agree that calling for the overthrow or replacement of our constitutional republic is 'off limits' for any revised socialist that becomes active?

Yes. America has historically been successful on the world stage for legitimate reasons. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. That however does not in any way mean that we're immune to criticism and possible improvement. No empire in history ever retained it's prime position by resting on its laurels.

Once you realize the scale of horror and brutality that happened at their hand
And once you take a look at the modern socialists F'ing it up again in South America AND South Africa right now......it's easy to come to a place where. it just doesn't make sense to even consisdering their ideas anymore

but admittedly I AM intrigued by the Pre Marx ideas that the French had
so I think that's where YOU are probably coming from .....

so what are some specific programs / budget decisions that you see Neo-Socialists making?

The most intriguing ideas to me currently are the Universal Basic Income schemes being bandied about in Silicon Valley. Namely replacing most, possibly all of the current social assistance programs with a direct no-strings-attached cash payment to roughly the bottom half of households. Barely enough to scrape by in food and housing. Then if someone spends it on an iPhone or beer or drugs and doesn't have the rent money they are unequivocally in a hole of their own making. Shifts responsibility away from government, prejudice, historical disadvantage, or any other excuse directly onto the individual and their personal responsibility. If you want a normal quality of life and any of the modern conveniences we've come to expect than you have to go out and work hard for them just like it's always been. If you start a small business and fail spectacularly then you're not automatically out on the street and can refocus your efforts on something hopefully more successful and innovative. Similar to the income floor created by social programs in Europe but without needing any massive government bureaucracies to maintain it. Everyone gets the same flat amount, no government bureaucrats justifying their paycheck by constantly looking over your shoulder.

 

[CastleRubric]

This line of thought is only supported by the belief that all socialism ends with communism and I for one don't think that as an absolute. The Nordic countries are the example of how socialism can be intertwined with capitalism as you have referred to already. Some here have said the Nordic model is capitalism with a smattering of socialism, some have called it socialism when in fact it is a healthy dose of both. I think that unregulated capitalism has already shown itself to be a failure in this country twice already. In 1929 and then again in 2007. I have faith in neither one without restraint in the form of regulation. Again in the end the system is not what fails it is the failure of men that brings about demise. It is not the system that is in need of regulation but the men who operate within the system. That is what I think.

You DO have a good point here - and it's the ONLY legitimate play that Socialists have IMO

So ---

1) my line of thought is also supported by historical events -- and the words / papers printed from within the socialist orders at varying periods....skepticism is warranted here.

2) Why isn't there a cogent plan being laid out by a unified socialist voice within our system -- a plan that can show us what that segment of radicals proposes to do -- and how it will make things better?
(I'm talking about the ones who are denouncing wholesale the idea of capitalism and our current alignment as a Constit-Repub)

3) I would listen to a specific plan that was non marxist and didn't plan to assume wider / deeper control over people / states ..... but I don't see where anyone is offering that.......so I'm back to deep distrust

4) Then you have the saturation and damn near juvenile level of screeching. against white men - The West - etc etc


where's that going?

 

[PhattyJ4UK]

Incorrect. 27% of minimum wage workers have children, barely lower than the 34% of ALL workers. That includes the fact that most minimum wage workers are under 30, many below modern ages for parenthood.

Can you read? Are you a GD idiot?

I think universal healthcare and ending the war on drugs in such a way as to treat drugs like the drug alcohol, would end a massive amount of problems in this country. Wealthy Americans think of money, sick people think of getting healthy. Stopping the war on drugs may be radical thinking but I don't see what has happened the last forty years as a success story or anything but a huge waste of revenue. I would concentrate on controlling violence in our homes, on our women, children and minorities. Fact is drugs are more in demand now than when there were no laws concerning them. I would end the war on labor and support unions rather than enforce business oriented solutions like Right to Work as anything other than the masked charade it is. Working people did not pen that effort to end all union representation, it was the business roundtable that wants complete control over labor that introduced that misnomer. I would break the hold big pharm has on drug pricing in this country including pot. Exactly why do other countries get a price break when American citizens pay 8-10 times the price? I would make every corporations clean up their environmental mess on their dime and penalize them for the time the mess exists. I would put people who hire illegals in prison for at least a year, taking their money won't work but taking their time will get their attention. I would make CEO's and board members culpable for the actions of the corporations they are supposed to over see. I would go to public financing our elections, use the popular vote until 65% of the electorate actually feels the need to vote and only then trigger the electoral college. Maybe the most important thing I would do is I would in every case make the American citizen primary and superior to any and all corporations---I would end the notion that corporations are more important than the citizens of this country. I would make the environment something of a sacred gift that we are presently affecting for our posterity and stop treating the earth like a garbage dump. I would do everything to change the notion of people who think of money as their God and try to educate them about the importance of their neighbor. I would make education a priority and enforce the idea of separation of any Church and State and bring back net neutrality. I would work to make the American citizen the benefactor of the American government regardless of race, creed, or color. A lot of that isn't really socialism in pure form but to tell you the truth the idea of the American citizen being a priority over American business appeals to me and I think honest businessmen could prosper along with the country as whole. I also know there is a bluebird on my shoulder.

Learn to indent, liberal.

 

[PhattyJ4UK]

Agreed. That's why I said what I said about your communism boner that started this debate. We need less screaming over who subscribes to what "-ism" and more focus on specific policies. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is dismissed out of hand because she's a "socialist" and her platform is then ignored.

You couldnt name 5 policies of hers without googling.

Shes dismissed because "abolish ICE" and winning a primary with 20% turnout are nothing burgers.

 

[Levibooty]

You DO have a good point here - and it's the ONLY legitimate play that Socialists have IMO

So ---

1) my line of thought is also supported by historical events -- and the words / papers printed from within the socialist orders at varying periods....skepticism is warranted here.

2) Why isn't there a cogent plan being laid out by a unified socialist voice within our system -- a plan that can show us what that segment of radicals proposes to do -- and how it will make things better?
(I'm talking about the ones who are denouncing wholesale the idea of capitalism and our current alignment as a Constit-Repub)

3) I would listen to a specific plan that was non marxist and didn't plan to assume wider / deeper control over people / states ..... but I don't see where anyone is offering that.......so I'm back to deep distrust

4) Then you have the saturation and damn near juvenile level of screeching. against white men - The West - etc etc


where's that going?

Well the screeching about white men probably started when Columbus use Taino indians as young as 9 for his sexual pleasure then rounded up 550 more (only 300 survived the trip) to take back to Queen Isabella as slaves in lieu of the gold he had contracted with her for financing his adventure. There is a long history of white men abusing others in American history. Even the Queen was appalled by his brutality and declared the slaves would be paid wages. So there is history that is uncomfortable for white men for sure.

 

[JumperJack]

Agreed. That's why I said what I said about your communism boner that started this debate. We need less screaming over who subscribes to what "-ism" and more focus on specific policies. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is dismissed out of hand because she's a "socialist" and her platform is then ignored.

As it should be. It’s not sustainable.

 

[JumperJack]

Well the screeching about white men probably started when Columbus use Taino indians as young as 9 for his sexual pleasure then rounded up 550 more (only 300 survived the trip) to take back to Queen Isabella as slaves in lieu of the gold he had contracted with her for financing his adventure. There is a long history of white men abusing others in American history. Even the Queen was appalled by his brutality and declared the slaves would be paid wages. So there is history that is uncomfortable for white men for sure.

Sound basis for modern policy here.

 

[Phil_The_Music]

easily refuted. The more you give to those who do not want to work, the more of them you will have later on. It all goes back to: eventually, you run out of other peoples money. It is really that simple.

Especially if you believe in opening up the borders and allowing an unlimited amount of people to enter. The libs answers for everything don't even compliment each other. Their platform isn't cohesive at all and for the life of me I can't understand how anyone isn't able to see that.

 

[CastleRubric]

You're faaaar more rational than most posters here, was more referring to them with the screaming line than you.

Everyone gets the same flat amount, no government bureaucrats justifying their paycheck by constantly looking over your shoulder.

Your approach is worth the dialogue IMO

being clear about what we mean when we (ALL political players) use catch phrases is critical though
(which means we really need to demand better communication and accountability from these political sluts that have been milking the gravy-teat on both sides of the coin)

George Orwell has a book called "All Art is Propaganda".
It's a collection of essays
There are at least 2 in there that address political activity and the English language

They're phenomenal pieces and I'd encourage ANYONE who's even mildly politically bent - to read them

He gets into the "blocking and tackling" basics of how modern political language has adapted to be purposely vague and tends to have the assignment of "making murder and war" seem respectable

My point is -- no more telling the cameras that you're promoting "workers rights" or "making the world safe for democracy" or "fighting terrorism" ..... unless you're going to break down the intent and logic behind WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS.....

so basically - holding politicians constantly accountable

Had to do when we're being socially engineered for conflict with one another



Right now - I honestly don't think the prominent Socialist operatives in our country are interested in something that's possibly reasonable ..... the ideas and seeds of possible ideas that you shared in that post just now are in the category of 'dialog worthy' at least


also,,,,,,,,I didn't quite get to finish my post for my man Levi up there
I was supposed to be out doing A THING in the yard ....and when my lovely bride pulled up -- I fled......reeking of cheap beer too......


more later -- we'll talk specifics about pre Marx SOC and at least get some names out there for others to read up on if they're interested etc

 

[CastleRubric]

Well the screeching about white men probably started when Columbus use Taino indians as young as 9 for his sexual pleasure then rounded up 550 more (only 300 survived the trip) to take back to Queen Isabella as slaves in lieu of the gold he had contracted with her for financing his adventure. There is a long history of white men abusing others in American history. Even the Queen was appalled by his brutality and declared the slaves would be paid wages. So there is history that is uncomfortable for white men for sure.

But that's a little like .... you had a dog 15 years ago that always pissed on your couch......she was brown with black spots

the dog had puppies - several generations of them in fact

years later -- one of the great-great-great grand pups grows up and LOOKS JUST LIKE THAT URINATING BI+CH that RUINED YOUR SOFA




She's not peeing on the sofa - your problems aren't on that scale anymore

but this descendant of the offender receives your enraged kicks and blows to it's nappy little head anyway




Does that fix anything?
Was justice delivered b/c the descendant of the pissing-dog was punished ?

AND - are we going to look at EVERYONES history and demand similar actions?

Because I can guarantee you that the bad historical actors and ugly historical moments -- -aren't all owned by what we can "white people"



Marx did have a quote about enforcing inequality in order to ensure that inequalities are abolished though

So again - there's a LOT of that same damn corrupted political DNA in many of these 'justice' movements --- they're political operatives for other white men in most cases anyway



Ironic if you think about it


Seriously though --- your example of what Columbus did is f'ing awful

But this same culture that came from expansion into the US produced:

Radio
Airplanes
Cars
Jazz - Rock and other new forms of musical expression
First non wooden ships
The Internet
Cell Phones


^^^ some fairly good stuff right?
lots more could be added......

There's nothing about the story you shared. that makes me uncomfortable

I didn't participate in any of that - and I"m not laboring under flash pretense of guilt

I'm as far removed from that as I am having had a hand in New Coke, Agent Orange or the Spice Girls

 

[CastleRubric]

Amazon product ASIN 0156033070
Here's a link to the G Orwell essays I mentioned - take a look - great book IMO

 

[CastleRubric]

and quickly - here are some of the French "utopian socialists" who predated Marx

I don't have a lot of depth on them individually but they're in a section of.a.book I have that outlines Marxism in layman's terms

A potentially workable form of INPUT from socialists might be found here?

Blanqui - he's mentioned but the book says he was a proponent for "class warfare" and the 'dictatorship of the proletariat" before Marx expressed those thoughts,......so to hell with him

Proudhon - French anarchist (1809-1868) - founded mutual aid societies and didn't seek the destruction of the family structure as Marx/Engels did

Blanc - the primary theorist for "ELECTION BASED LEGISLATIVE SOCIALISM" -- NOT the violent / revolutionary type

BLANC gave us the. quote "from each according to his ability - to each according to his needs"

 

[thabigbluenation]

@Dionysus444 you wouldn't bother to enage @CastleRubric until I called you out for it. congrats on having a conversation with someone who has a different yet still very informerd and educated point of view. everyone is better off when we are talking and not fighting.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[duke4life831]

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Wrap your head around this one.

I was 99% sure this was an Onion post. I had to double take to make sure this was an actual post. My god this is bad.

 

[KingOfBBN]

The more I read of that guy, the more I'm leaning towards it being fake. It's too much.

Although I don't disagree that Obama stole the 2012 election. No doubt in my mind that's true. I'm also sold on the fact Soros and his machines were part. But only part.

No way obama won that election fairly. No. Way.

I don’t know if I’d go that far, certainly wouldn’t toss it out of being possible as I did find it crazy odd that some districts in Philadelphia didn’t have a single Romney vote.

 

[CastleRubric]

If not for the balance of your post (and being familiar with others from you) I might have thought this written by a early 20s female with refreshing, grounded thinking. Otherwise, I'll just say you're being nice. Because, what you really mean to say - the interpretation - is that our modern, socialist-liberals intentionally do not reveal their true agenda, fearing the public awaking it would create amongst their base of middle class vulnerables.

You’re a kind (and probably obliquely attractive) man - thanks for the feedback (really)

Yes - there is definitely an element of obfuscation occurring so that resistance doesn’t rally and focus etc

Every revolution carries some degree of conspiratorial activity by nature

But I still want to make the distinction between “traditional liberals” who are being used (and posses a very low # of actual vanguard revolutionaries....they’re generally people you can work/live with) and the Marxist elements who are knowingly strategizing against our government and will likely play a role similar to the Bolsheviks of the early twentieth century)

for anyone who truly fits into that last category- they’re a genuine domestic enemy that needs to be utterly defeated....if that type of political mindset gains control.... don’t expect mercy or any form of human compassion from them

 

[KingOfBBN]

France looks a lot different.

 

[WKBlu]

 

[WKBlu]

 

[WKBlu]

 

[WKBlu]

 

[AustinTXCat]

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Bears repeating, especially for resident open-borders posters.

 

[AustinTXCat]

nominated the Bush boyfriend. so much for the end of Roe V Wade. Trump played it safe and added another swing vote.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I think that unregulated capitalism has already shown itself to be a failure in this country twice already. In 1929 and then again in 2007. I have faith in neither one without restraint in the form of regulation.

So you think the problems in 1929 and 2007 were not having enough government regulations in place to force companies and people to make decisions they wouldn't make in a pure capitalist system?

And the answer is more government control?

 

[Levibooty]

You’re a kind (and probably obliquely attractive) man - thanks for the feedback (really)

Yes - there is definitely an element of obfuscation occurring so that resistance doesn’t rally and focus etc

Every revolution carries some degree of conspiratorial activity by nature

But I still want to make the distinction between “traditional liberals” who are being used (and posses a very low # of actual vanguard revolutionaries....they’re generally people you can work/live with) and the Marxist elements who are knowingly strategizing against our government and will likely play a role similar to the Bolsheviks of the early twentieth century)

for anyone who truly fits into that last category- they’re a genuine domestic enemy that needs to be utterly defeated....if that type of political mindset gains control.... don’t expect mercy or any form of human compassion from them

So which one do you think KGB puppetmaster Putin is working with?

 

[qwesley]

Bears repeating, especially for resident open-borders posters.

They didn't do it correctly will be the answer.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

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France looks a lot different.

Those people don't believe in liberte, egalite and fraternite.

And it's not racist to say so.

To dovetail on the socialism topic, democratic socialism works to some degree in some ways in Europe because there is shared cultural identity. It will destroy France, mark my words, maybe not in our lifetimes but it will in the end.

And if it's going to work here, one nation under god indiivisible with liberty and justice for all needs to not be a topic open for debate.

 

[vhcat70]

Inflation is outpacing GDP and wage growth. MAGA!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-inflation-rates-20180713-story.html

You'll believe any fake news that supports your views:

"Real average hourly earnings for all employees increased 0.1 percent from May to June, seasonally adjusted, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. This result stems from a 0.2-percent increase in average hourly earnings combined with a 0.1-percent increase in the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U)."

From your precious government.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I'd argue socialism could be effective if you have a small, homogeneous society where there was actual pride in working hard, getting an education and helping out your fellow man. The people who are pushing socialism in the USA want to give free stuff away to people who don't work hard, haven't attained an education, and couldn't give two ishes about their fellow men.

here's another thing that bothers me with the current iteration of socialists in the USA

there's really no serious effort being made to have a public dialogue about how they're going to make things better

They just want votes. That's why

 

[cardkilla]

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Aww except Obama did try to do something about it and McConnell refused to go along, funny how that is never brought up by el presidente. McConnell knew Russia was helping Trump and was ok with it. Republican leadership is complicit in this.

So Trump can go around calling America stupid and blaming bad relations with Russia on America only...if Obama said this he would be called a traitor.

 

[cardkilla]

You'll believe any fake news that supports your views:

"Real average hourly earnings for all employees increased 0.1 percent from May to June, seasonally adjusted, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. This result stems from a 0.2-percent increase in average hourly earnings combined with a 0.1-percent increase in the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U)."

From your precious government.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

maybe go beyond one month and you'll see that inflation is outstripping any wage gains. I predicted this well before the election.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

It is amazing that some want socialism when it has failed all over the world. The U.S. built the greatest country in the history of civilization based on hard work, a belief in God and individual freedom. Yet some want to throw that all away and let a government be a bean counter of who does this or who does that and takes care of those who do not contribute from cradle to grave. And in a socialist country the grave comes quick. Of course they "take care" of the non contributors by taking from someone who earned it and distributing it to another voting block.

As a Judeo-Christian nation we take care of those who are in need of help. But as a non Judeo-Christian nation we kill our babies and decide who can or can not get medical care when they are of a certain age.

Some of our universities teach us our ancestors were bad white men who wanted to enslave the world. And many believe those lies. The dumbing down of America is not a myth