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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
He sells custom decorated wedding cakes. If your position is the couple have a sex right to buy their wedding cake and the baker has a religious right to not compromise his religious beliefs then how do we resolve it?(this isn't true legally obviously, owner and customer have different legal burdens, so this is just a hypothetical) Whose right trumps who? Not making the cake sides with the owner, making the cake sides with the couple. Any outcome violates someone's rights.

No, you misunderstand what is the issue.

If two gay guys walk in to Wendy's with their shirts off, and the manager denies them service, they don't get to say he is violating their rights.

The issue there is not that they are gay, but that they have their shirts off. Similarly, the issue is not that they are gay, but are requesting a "gay" cake. It's not their protected class at issue, but the service. It is decidedly illiberal to force the baker to bake that cake.
 
Ok, should a Trans cake baker be forced to decorate a cake with the words "All Trans People are freaks and should die"? From my understanding of your logic, yes, they should have to do that.
Don’t expect this brainwashed POS to understand logic. He’s a moron who has no critical thinking and simply adopts whatever position or talking point he is given and then does not stray from it despite routinely getting owned with every logical rebuttal.

They cannot understand logic or think anything differently than what their programming suggests.
 
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He sells custom decorated wedding cakes. If your position is the couple have a sex right to buy their wedding cake and the baker has a religious right to not compromise his religious beliefs then how do we resolve it?(this isn't true legally obviously, owner and customer have different legal burdens, so this is just a hypothetical) Whose right trumps who? Not making the cake sides with the owner, making the cake sides with the couple. Any outcome violates someone's rights.

No, you idiot. The gay couple can visit any other bakery amd have their cake baked, so what right of theirs has been violated?

The cake shop baker, on the other hand, doesn't have a choice if forced by the government to bake the cake, see? I guess he could close his business and lay off all his workers. That's a good and just result, don't you think? You communist
 
No, you misunderstand what is the issue.

If two gay guys walk in to Wendy's with their shirts off, and the manager denies them service, they don't get to say he is violating their rights.

The issue there is not that they are gay, but that they have their shirts off. Similarly, the issue is not that they are gay, but are requesting a "gay" cake. It's not their protected class at issue, but the service. It is decidedly illiberal to force the baker to bake that cake.

Exactly. They are not being denied service because THEY ARE GAY, they are being denied service to bake a particular cake. Truly, as simple as that.

Dollars to donuts if they had ordered a normal wedding cake or what have you, there would be no issue.
 
The outcome is you go to a different cake decorator. The customer is willfully going to his business, even after knowing his stance. They are intentionally trying create a situation that hinders his religious rights while there are other options for them.
The SCOTUS has already ruled on this.
They didn’t. They ruled on a technicality about the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. Hence the re-file and different lower court outcome. Will probably make it’s way back up to the Supreme.
 
He sells custom decorated wedding cakes. If your position is the couple have a sex right to buy their wedding cake and the baker has a religious right to not compromise his religious beliefs then how do we resolve it?(this isn't true legally obviously, owner and customer have different legal burdens, so this is just a hypothetical) Whose right trumps who? Not making the cake sides with the owner, making the cake sides with the couple. Any outcome violates someone's rights.
I think you have hit on the crux of a bigger problem in this country. This country has gone from freedom being the thing we covet and protect more than anything else to a country that wants to force everyone to behave a certain way over everything else. Why does it need resolving? Why is it important that the cake maker be forced to do something against his will and why is it important that the cake buyer purchase his cake from this particular cake maker? A cake buyer has no right to be able to purchase a cake of any description from a specific maker. Just because you want to buy something from me doesn't mean I'm obligated to sell it to you. In a free society, why is that a problem? Buy it from someone who is willing to sell it to you. Yet, we have abandoned the concept of freedom for the idea that if we think you are being mean to someone you should be forced to do what we think you should do. That's not freedom.
 
The KKK isn’t a political affiliation. It would be denying service to some whites for doing something the black baker didn’t agree with.
They hold an opinion. He isn’t refusing service because they’re white(illegal), he’s refusing because they’re in the KKK(legal).
 


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Little OT but think about how much power and sway Nike has with the feds.

Avenatti said hes having a press conference in 45 minutes. In less than 45 minutes, Nike had him arrested and prosecuted and now they're pushing major jail time.

He's scum but all he did was send a demand letter and threaten to go public with allegations. That's every day ambulance chaser activity, not major jail time. The fact it was a few days before a quarterly earnings report means nothing.

Feds and Nike sent a very clear message - don't F with Nike's money. Those are the facts, now let's sprinkle in a little conspiracy:

We know Nike is very, very sensitive to china and relies heavily on the CCP for it's market and labor. Wonder how much direct financial interest the ccp has in Nike via direct or indirect ownership?

Also this was all done at light speed by the sdny. Yes the same sdny that ran a neverending witch hunt on the trump family.

You do the math. Who really has the power to get the feds to condense a normally months long process into less than 45 minutes on a very weak case then move for max jail time for someone with zero criminal record?
 
Explain to me how sexual ORIENTATION is protected versus actual, you know, actual sexual biological identity.

Bake the cake, bigot! You Communist.
Bostock v. Clayton County. The SC ruling is basically that if you allow Joe, a man, to date Susie, a woman, but don’t allow him to date Dave, another man, then you’re discriminating against him based on his sex. If he were female you would be fine with him dating Dave. So the only reason you care is because he is a man, his sex.
 
As do r

As do the bakers religious rights. Again, he isn’t refusing to sell them a cake, he’s refusing to decorate it on religious principles. Their rights don’t trump his rights.

They do but that's just a red herring here. It never needs to get that far.

As a business owner I have limitations on the reasons I refuse to do business with certain people. However I have no restrictions on the reason I might refuse a particular job from that person. A reason isn't even required to be given.
 
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Dollars to donuts if they had ordered a normal wedding cake or what have you, there would be no issue.
A wedding is a wedding. The only reason you see it as not “normal” is because they’re gay. Discrimination based on their sexual orientation.
The baker is refusing service not because they’re gay, (illegal) but because the want a cake to display their opinion.(legal)
See above.
 
You’re allowed to discriminate against someone for having shitty opinions like being in the klan. Just not because he’s gay. And that’s not how intersectionality works.
Ok so let’s flip it. What if a Klansman Baker had a black person come in and ask for a cake that says “CRT is the way to be, KKK Sucks” does the klansman have a right to refuse that? After all it’s the opinion he’s refusing.
We can do this all day.
 
You may not have a problem with race, but some do. So they should be allowed to refuse service because they find black people vulgar and distasteful? You may not like it but sexual orientation and gender identity have the same legal protections as race.
Now you're conflating immutable genetic characteristics with mental/emotional orientation issues.

The guy making the cakes has sexual identity protections too.
 
A wedding is a wedding. The only reason you see it as not “normal” is because they’re gay. Discrimination based on their sexual orientation.

See above.
Can’t that same logic be applied to the black baker denying service to the klansman? Is he denying him service because he’s an idiot whitey or because of his “opinion”
 
No. Political affiliation is not a protected class like sex is. You're allowed to refuse service to a Klansman. Like restaurants kicking out Trumpers a few years ago.
The cake buyer isn't a klansman, just wants a hood in the shape of a Klan hood.
 
You’re allowed to discriminate against someone for having shitty opinions like being in the klan. Just not because he’s gay. And that’s not how intersectionality works.
You’re dead ass wrong. Intersectionality literally means existing at an intersection. Who are you to determine which features define a person?

But you are proving today that it’s a ludicrous concept. These are, after all, the insane babbling of the “educated”. It’s what happens when there are hierarchies of victims and aggrieved people.
 
Now you're conflating immutable genetic characteristics with mental/emotional orientation issues.

The guy making the cakes has sexual identity protections too.
According to Bostock v. Clayton County sexual orientation and gender identity protections result from sex protection, an immutable characteristic. Same as race.
 
You’re dead ass wrong. Intersectionality literally means existing at an intersection. Who are you to determine which features define a person?

But you are proving today that it’s a ludicrous concept. These are, after all, the insane babbling of the “educated”. It’s what happens when there are hierarchies of victims and aggrieved people.
I’m not. The US legal system defines what you can and cannot discriminate based on.
 
They didn’t. They ruled on a technicality about the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. Hence the re-file and different lower court outcome. Will probably make it’s way back up to the Supreme.
Ok, still doesn’t change the point being made.
The trans couple is intentionally trying to force the baker to violate his rights, when they have other options. They went to him to harass him, they don’t care about the cake.
 
Ok, still doesn’t change the point being made.
The trans couple is intentionally trying to force the baker to violate his rights, when they have other options. They went to him to harass him, they don’t care about the cake.
They’re trying to get him to choose. Either provide service or quit. He has a right to his religious beliefs but not to sell cakes. If his religious convictions are so strong he can close up shop and keep them.
 
He sells custom decorated wedding cakes. If your position is the couple have a sex right to buy their wedding cake and the baker has a religious right to not compromise his religious beliefs then how do we resolve it?(this isn't true legally obviously, owner and customer have different legal burdens, so this is just a hypothetical) Whose right trumps who? Not making the cake sides with the owner, making the cake sides with the couple. Any outcome violates someone's rights.
 
They’re trying to get him to choose. Either provide service or quit. He has a right to his religious beliefs but not to sell cakes. If his religious convictions are so strong he can close up shop and keep them.
He has chosen, they also have choice to Go to another cake decorator.
He does have a right to earn a living, and to live how his religion teaches.

They are simply harassing him at this point. Reality is that people like you simply can’t accept that other people have different opinions and life values. So you want the govt to force that on people. There’s a name for that, it’s called tyranny.
 
See this is the problem I have with liberals. They expect everyone to support and celebrate every walk of life. I will never hurt another human that does no physical harm to me, but don’t expect me to agree and accept those life styles that I disagree with.
Not all walks of life. You would be a fine example of lifestyle they do not celebrate. They mainly prefer those with a basis in mental illness.
 
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