North Carolina Scandal Etc
- Thread starter Catswin9
- Start date
Decided to repost this CBS article that laid out exactly all the issues with the fraud going on in Chapel Hill: My favorite quote:
"Was this an academic or an athletic issue?" North Carolina Chancellor Carol Folt said at a news conference this week. "Clearly it was an issue in both areas."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...recedented-academic-fraud-case-will-test-ncaa
After letting time pass by and re-reading this, there is no way the NCAA can avoid major criticism if a hand-slap is all that becomes of this. A serious amount of wins is in jeopardy here, and should be taken off the record books to take a stand against organized academic cheating.
"Was this an academic or an athletic issue?" North Carolina Chancellor Carol Folt said at a news conference this week. "Clearly it was an issue in both areas."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...recedented-academic-fraud-case-will-test-ncaa
After letting time pass by and re-reading this, there is no way the NCAA can avoid major criticism if a hand-slap is all that becomes of this. A serious amount of wins is in jeopardy here, and should be taken off the record books to take a stand against organized academic cheating.
I know that article is nearly a year old, but what can you say? WOW. Just, WOW. How can Carol Folt make that comment and NOT fall on her sword, severely penalize her own program, vacate wins, throw the whole academic and athlete program under independent advisement and resign.
Utterly disgraceful!!! Gangrene has set in at the Institution of North Carolina. Its time to cut it off to save division 1 college basketball.
And, how can Bradley Bethel make these wild claims about it not really being an athletic issue? Also, how can he claim it really isn't an athletic issue after sending a note to Folt about how UNC was admitting athletes who simply could not do college work?
Inquiring minds want to know!
What with the Carolina mess being so huge, this was posted on another forum...
In addition to the MASSIVE cheating scandal, there is also all THIS to remember....
1. Fats' rental cars and parties thrown for UNC athletes;
2. UNC was going to fight for PJs reinstatement, and then once he boosted their academic stats by finishing out the semester, they cut him loose with no further investigation or comment... they never even filed for him to get reinstated;
3. Alleged Pell Grant fraud;
4. Alleged learning disability fraud, with players being determined to be disabled by a friendly clinic so they could get out of work;
5. Concerns about how UNC was intimididating potential whistleblowers and staff such as MW;
6. Matt and Tami kanoodling on taxpayers dime. And I am sure Tami got that cushy job because she was the best qualified person in the whole world and it had nothing to do with her all-star son coming back for his senior year... and she even got flown to Notre Dame games to watch BEN play;
7. Fats connections to Dental Foundation... and mouth guards for Leslie;
8. Matt and Tami's connections to Dental Foundation;
9. UNCs continued protestations that it was only AFAM that was involved when many documents indicate at least several other departments participated;
10. The discrepancy that UNC told the NCAA that the issues of bogus classes only went back to 1993, but then they told SACS is went back to 1988. Every time a questions gets asked, you get a different answer....
11. Golden parachutes for everyone who was involved and who UNC fears might blab; golden showers for the NC taxpayers who have to pick up the tab;
12. William Graves busted for dope in ol' Roy's house;
There is just SO so much... not even mentioning the whole "every lawyer and judge involved is a UNC person, including the judge who dismissed the charges and Julius being the SON of the UNC Athletic Director who STARTED the whole issue!
In addition to the MASSIVE cheating scandal, there is also all THIS to remember....
1. Fats' rental cars and parties thrown for UNC athletes;
2. UNC was going to fight for PJs reinstatement, and then once he boosted their academic stats by finishing out the semester, they cut him loose with no further investigation or comment... they never even filed for him to get reinstated;
3. Alleged Pell Grant fraud;
4. Alleged learning disability fraud, with players being determined to be disabled by a friendly clinic so they could get out of work;
5. Concerns about how UNC was intimididating potential whistleblowers and staff such as MW;
6. Matt and Tami kanoodling on taxpayers dime. And I am sure Tami got that cushy job because she was the best qualified person in the whole world and it had nothing to do with her all-star son coming back for his senior year... and she even got flown to Notre Dame games to watch BEN play;
7. Fats connections to Dental Foundation... and mouth guards for Leslie;
8. Matt and Tami's connections to Dental Foundation;
9. UNCs continued protestations that it was only AFAM that was involved when many documents indicate at least several other departments participated;
10. The discrepancy that UNC told the NCAA that the issues of bogus classes only went back to 1993, but then they told SACS is went back to 1988. Every time a questions gets asked, you get a different answer....
11. Golden parachutes for everyone who was involved and who UNC fears might blab; golden showers for the NC taxpayers who have to pick up the tab;
12. William Graves busted for dope in ol' Roy's house;
There is just SO so much... not even mentioning the whole "every lawyer and judge involved is a UNC person, including the judge who dismissed the charges and Julius being the SON of the UNC Athletic Director who STARTED the whole issue!
Found this in UNC recruiting discussions, and of course, the recruit's visit to UNC was simply a coincidence:
Harrison Barnes and James Michael McAdoo will be in Chapel Hill with the NBA championship trophy during Seventh Woods' official visit the weekend of 9/26, although they are prohibited by NCAA rules from interacting with recruits.
I can guarantee you no one is watching the fox in the hen house. This is the weekend Giles decided to move his visit to a date in October.
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article68499.aspx
Still waiting on the 1st 2016 5 star recruit to commit to Roy.......
Other notable items from this site:
-2016 5-star point guard De'Aaron Fox has eliminated UNC from consideration. Fox had been offered a scholarship by UNC.
--2016 5-star power forward Miles Bridges also dropped UNC from consideration and had held a UNC scholarship offer. Bridges is down to his final three of Michigan State, Kentucky, and Indiana.
--2016 5-star shooting guard Kobi Simmons is no longer considering UNC.
Proof that what Roy is trying to sell isn't working.
Harrison Barnes and James Michael McAdoo will be in Chapel Hill with the NBA championship trophy during Seventh Woods' official visit the weekend of 9/26, although they are prohibited by NCAA rules from interacting with recruits.
I can guarantee you no one is watching the fox in the hen house. This is the weekend Giles decided to move his visit to a date in October.
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article68499.aspx
Still waiting on the 1st 2016 5 star recruit to commit to Roy.......
Other notable items from this site:
-2016 5-star point guard De'Aaron Fox has eliminated UNC from consideration. Fox had been offered a scholarship by UNC.
--2016 5-star power forward Miles Bridges also dropped UNC from consideration and had held a UNC scholarship offer. Bridges is down to his final three of Michigan State, Kentucky, and Indiana.
--2016 5-star shooting guard Kobi Simmons is no longer considering UNC.
Proof that what Roy is trying to sell isn't working.
I just want to know when we will receive good news about this scandal, and good news to me is bad, very bad, for UNC.
However, I am willing to let it continue as long as it continues to hamper the recruiting.
However, I am willing to let it continue as long as it continues to hamper the recruiting.
October 28th is when they meet with NCAA infractions committee. Does anyone know how long after this meeting for a decision
Okay, I am a bit out of the loop on this right now. Is this the actual meeting with the NCAA or the response to the NCAA notice of allegations?
The last timeline I saw suggested Spring for a final resolution. And, that timeline was BEFORE UNC received the extension.
I think @jamo0001 posted in another thread that Cuse met with the COI in June and they got a ruling in September, so if that's any indication, there might be a 3-4 month window.
Ha Ha Ha, (Not at you Preacherfan) at the ncaa and it's a sick laugh. Spring time for a decision. (Yeah I heard they were over-worked and under-staffed.) Tell Brown that...
If you saw the Swofford/Kane interview, you could see Wofford wanted to be as far away from that issue as possible. He had to reach for words to just describe what could have gone wrong.
IMO, he's part of the problem from the outset, but didn't want any quotes coming back to him and tying him to any of the scandal.
IMO, he's part of the problem from the outset, but didn't want any quotes coming back to him and tying him to any of the scandal.
My favorite part of the interview is when Kane asked him what he thought about a woman who didn't even have a college degree (Crowder) giving academic support to college students (not to mention giving them grades). In response, Swofford just look flabbergasted and said he didn't know what to think about that. Wow.
To be clear, Crowder has a degree. It was Janet Huffstetler who didn't have a degree and had very little college.
"Deborah Crowder, the former academic department manager who was the architect of the fake classes, said in the email she would enroll the athlete in an “independent study type” class because a tutor named Janet “assures me that she can work with the student.”
The News & Observer asked the university for the qualifications of that tutor, Janet Huffstetler, who worked with the UNC men’s basketball program for more than a decade. UNC officials declined, citing the state’s personnel law, which doesn’t make public hiring information for employees such as resumes, educational backgrounds and past employment outside of the agency."
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article15350189.html#storylink=cpy
My only hope is that it will take that long to nail their rears to the wall.
Keep in mind that the true story of the UNC scandal will be out soon via Bradley "Shoes" Bethel. I am sure he will also include a section in his documentary about a bball tutor who didn't even have a degree but had such a spectacular resume that she was hired to help kids to do college level work!
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
They probably used one of those email accounts and didn't even know the difference...The latest from Pack Pride...
Nominate | Report
Posted: Today 3:45 AM
Re: Cheaters gonna cheat (continuing the cheat thread)
Getting ready to take a short hop to North Island for a hotwash. Not the most favorable way to spend a weekend.
I will try and post an update at some point next week.
A lot has been going on, and none of it is good for unc.
The PF is getting high over there...
And a bit of translation:
North Island = military base in San Diego
hotwash = postop debriefing/evaluation
PF = pucker factor
- manalishi
- PP HOF - SpecOps
- 1503 posts this site
- Ignore this Member
- Send Private Message
Nominate | Report
Posted: Today 3:45 AM
Re: Cheaters gonna cheat (continuing the cheat thread)
Getting ready to take a short hop to North Island for a hotwash. Not the most favorable way to spend a weekend.
I will try and post an update at some point next week.
A lot has been going on, and none of it is good for unc.
The PF is getting high over there...
And a bit of translation:
North Island = military base in San Diego
hotwash = postop debriefing/evaluation
PF = pucker factor
Hi TUL. I wish you happiness, my friend.The latest from Pack Pride...
- manalishi
- PP HOF - SpecOps
- 1503 posts this site
- Ignore this Member
- Send Private Message
Nominate | Report
Posted: Today 3:45 AM
Re: Cheaters gonna cheat (continuing the cheat thread)
Getting ready to take a short hop to North Island for a hotwash. Not the most favorable way to spend a weekend.
I will try and post an update at some point next week.
A lot has been going on, and none of it is good for unc.
The PF is getting high over there...
And a bit of translation:
North Island = military base in San Diego
hotwash = postop debriefing/evaluation
PF = pucker factor
!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
The latest from Pack Pride...
- manalishi
- PP HOF - SpecOps
- 1503 posts this site
- Ignore this Member
- Send Private Message
Nominate | Report
Posted: Today 3:45 AM
Re: Cheaters gonna cheat (continuing the cheat thread)
Getting ready to take a short hop to North Island for a hotwash. Not the most favorable way to spend a weekend.
I will try and post an update at some point next week.
A lot has been going on, and none of it is good for unc.
The PF is getting high over there...
And a bit of translation:
North Island = military base in San Diego
hotwash = postop debriefing/evaluation
PF = pucker factor
I am glad you posted that. But, I admit that I am not a fan of Manalishi. I think he is full of hot air, to be honest.
Here's an updated article on ESPN by Dana O'Neil, talking about the looming decision that the NCAA enforcement committee needs to make.
Article: Greg Sankey will have the most influence on college hoops this season.
Interestingly, the current commissioner of the SEC is also chair of the NCAA Committee on Infractions. There's a lot in the article. Below are some selected bits:
A couple of comments on the above. More violations about UNC are found every time they or someone else tries to summarize or report on this topic, because the cheating was so widespread and so pervasive throughout the university that there's bound to be more that's to date remained uncovered than has been brought to light.
In this case, UNC has tried to use it to their advantage in order to not only try to steer the allegations onto other minor sports (and thus away from their prized basketball program) but to try to delay a decision until it's too late to prevent them from participating in the 2016 NCAA tournament, which may well be their last gasp chance at salvaging anything from the debacle.
I also am tired of seeing journalists continue to talk about the fact that 'regular students signed up too' when no one to my knowledge has specifically looked at this to see how they were classified as such, and how much interaction they had with the athletic department and programs. The few times they have done so, many of these 'non-athletes' were actually former players who simply had lost their eligibility etc.
Also O'Neil fails to mention that from the origin of the scandal that's been presented (although I am not convinced it wasn't much earlier than 1993), it was squarely to benefit basketball. True that other sports started to take part and that after 2009 (with the departure of Crowder and Wayne Walden) the basketball program quickly moved from AFAM to Communications.
Article: Greg Sankey will have the most influence on college hoops this season.
Interestingly, the current commissioner of the SEC is also chair of the NCAA Committee on Infractions. There's a lot in the article. Below are some selected bits:
The charges call out for a hammer -- paper classes stuffed with athletes, basketball players marching like drones in pursuit of the same major -- but what will the hammer look like? The notice of allegations sent in June included severe charges, including impermissible academic benefits to athletes and a lack of institutional control that "seriously undermine or threaten the integrity of the NCAA Collegiate Model."
North Carolina actually found even more violations while preparing its response to the first set, thus delaying the process a bit.
....
More complicated is what to do with Carolina basketball. Let's face it. That's the question everyone wants answered. There's a national championship banner from the past at stake, and postseason participation in both the present and the future. The Tar Heels no doubt were in on the paper-class fun, but they weren't alone. Athletes in multiple sports took advantage of the African-American studies freebies; regular students signed up, too.
North Carolina actually found even more violations while preparing its response to the first set, thus delaying the process a bit.
....
More complicated is what to do with Carolina basketball. Let's face it. That's the question everyone wants answered. There's a national championship banner from the past at stake, and postseason participation in both the present and the future. The Tar Heels no doubt were in on the paper-class fun, but they weren't alone. Athletes in multiple sports took advantage of the African-American studies freebies; regular students signed up, too.
A couple of comments on the above. More violations about UNC are found every time they or someone else tries to summarize or report on this topic, because the cheating was so widespread and so pervasive throughout the university that there's bound to be more that's to date remained uncovered than has been brought to light.
In this case, UNC has tried to use it to their advantage in order to not only try to steer the allegations onto other minor sports (and thus away from their prized basketball program) but to try to delay a decision until it's too late to prevent them from participating in the 2016 NCAA tournament, which may well be their last gasp chance at salvaging anything from the debacle.
I also am tired of seeing journalists continue to talk about the fact that 'regular students signed up too' when no one to my knowledge has specifically looked at this to see how they were classified as such, and how much interaction they had with the athletic department and programs. The few times they have done so, many of these 'non-athletes' were actually former players who simply had lost their eligibility etc.
Also O'Neil fails to mention that from the origin of the scandal that's been presented (although I am not convinced it wasn't much earlier than 1993), it was squarely to benefit basketball. True that other sports started to take part and that after 2009 (with the departure of Crowder and Wayne Walden) the basketball program quickly moved from AFAM to Communications.
I am very glad that the focus was on Sankey as chair of the committee. At least in theory, Emmert should be out of the picture. His opinions should have little to do with the committee's decisions.
For Sankey, this is a defining moment in time. His legacy can be one of standing up for what is right or he can go the Janet Yellen route and be so wishy washy that the NCAA continues to lack any clear direction.
Another part of the article:
I find this to be revisionist history and misleading. Even if it's true that Roy didn't like the clustering that occurred, nothing actually changed until after 2009 (which as I mentioned seemed to coincide more with the fact of Crowder leaving her position at UNC and Wayne Walden leaving as well than it had to do with Roy Williams.)
What was Roy Williams doing before then, i.e. starting in 2003-04 at UNC?
Beyond that, if anything the players ended up clustering back in Communications and Sociology (majors at UNC for which many of these AFAM courses could still be used for credit) so it's an open question whether any of the cheating within the basketball program ever stopped, even with the change in major.
To step back even further, this idea that Roy was the catalyst for change in 2009 is based on some comments he gave to Wainstein. The information much earlier around the time the scandal first broke suggested that UNC basketball players were taken out of AFAM courses not from Roy Williams' direction but because whichever academic advisor took over after Walden (sorry can't remember her name) was appalled at the clustering and heavy reliance on paper classes and insisted that the athlete's courses be changed. (if anyone remembers the details or can cite an article which discusses this please let me know. I believe it was in the N & O.)
So frankly I give Roy Williams little to no credit for the move away from AFAM. The only 'evidence' that he did anything positive was from his own statement to an investigator without any tangible proof (i.e. an email etc.)
And remember this is the same Roy Williams who bragged about how closely he follows his player's classwork, until hard evidence was presented as to just how lax and even non-existent this 'classwork' was, to which Williams turned around and said he couldn't be expected to know what classes his players take (for which he's earned hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonuses for his player's academic achievements BTW).
I find the whole thing unbelievable that the coaching and academic staff weren't fully cognizant of what was going on. After all every program is going to have mandatory study halls and academic support made available to ensure these players get their work done, not to mention periodically check that they're actually attending their classes. Does anyone actually believe that the UNC staff were completely oblivious to the fact that Rashad McCants, for example, went an entire semester without seemingly any classes to attend or homework to do? Ridiculous!
It's not uncomplicated. Roy Williams' name appeared but once in the notice of allegations, and only when the basketball coach expressed disdain that so many of his players were in the same major. That might not merit a seat in the timeout chair alongside fellow Hall of Famers Larry Brown and Jim Boeheim, each docked multiple games this season for their program's miscues.
I find this to be revisionist history and misleading. Even if it's true that Roy didn't like the clustering that occurred, nothing actually changed until after 2009 (which as I mentioned seemed to coincide more with the fact of Crowder leaving her position at UNC and Wayne Walden leaving as well than it had to do with Roy Williams.)
What was Roy Williams doing before then, i.e. starting in 2003-04 at UNC?
Beyond that, if anything the players ended up clustering back in Communications and Sociology (majors at UNC for which many of these AFAM courses could still be used for credit) so it's an open question whether any of the cheating within the basketball program ever stopped, even with the change in major.
To step back even further, this idea that Roy was the catalyst for change in 2009 is based on some comments he gave to Wainstein. The information much earlier around the time the scandal first broke suggested that UNC basketball players were taken out of AFAM courses not from Roy Williams' direction but because whichever academic advisor took over after Walden (sorry can't remember her name) was appalled at the clustering and heavy reliance on paper classes and insisted that the athlete's courses be changed. (if anyone remembers the details or can cite an article which discusses this please let me know. I believe it was in the N & O.)
So frankly I give Roy Williams little to no credit for the move away from AFAM. The only 'evidence' that he did anything positive was from his own statement to an investigator without any tangible proof (i.e. an email etc.)
And remember this is the same Roy Williams who bragged about how closely he follows his player's classwork, until hard evidence was presented as to just how lax and even non-existent this 'classwork' was, to which Williams turned around and said he couldn't be expected to know what classes his players take (for which he's earned hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonuses for his player's academic achievements BTW).
I find the whole thing unbelievable that the coaching and academic staff weren't fully cognizant of what was going on. After all every program is going to have mandatory study halls and academic support made available to ensure these players get their work done, not to mention periodically check that they're actually attending their classes. Does anyone actually believe that the UNC staff were completely oblivious to the fact that Rashad McCants, for example, went an entire semester without seemingly any classes to attend or homework to do? Ridiculous!
Last edited:
Wow, I'm shocked JP. Shocked I tell you. I thought you were all about "facts" and precise statements? You're talking about how there was this big drop-off of AFAM majors after 2009. So, in an attempt to let you save some kind of face, please quantify how big of a drop-off we're talking about. Heck, since you're so good at finding the "facts", why don't you tell us the actual number of AFAM majors during Roy's tenure at UNC. Finally, after you tell us the numbers, when did Roy say he had his meeting with the assistant telling him he didn't like that so many were majoring in AFAM?
Also, I seriously doubt you want to start saying athletes clustering = signs of academic fraud. Surely I misread you on this, right?
Also, I seriously doubt you want to start saying athletes clustering = signs of academic fraud. Surely I misread you on this, right?
I don't know why you're here.
I don't even know what your position is. Are you arguing the extent of the cheating or that none existed at all?
I don't even know what your position is. Are you arguing the extent of the cheating or that none existed at all?
So, basically what you've been saying for months if not years now is, UNC sucks. But it doesn't suck exactly for the reasons we think it sucks. Thanks for the clarification!
Maybe you can clear up what I've really been wondering about. Do you sell men's or women's shoes?
Last edited:
I find it interesting that Bradley didn't even arrive at UNC until after the scandal was basically exposed and he thinks he is the expert. Willingham and Smith were there for a long long time and saw it firsthand.
So far, UKnCincy, JPS and both Willingham and Smith have owned him. Gotta give him credit, he is persistent. A few weeks ago, he was still trying to raise more money for his film!
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
![[thumb2]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1684387.png "Thumbs Up 2 [thumb2]")
![[banana]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682178.gif "banana [banana]")
UNC is not headed for sanctions. BB program did nothing wrong. Women's BB and Olympic sports will be hit because one women who in her mind was actually helping folks like herself when she was in school. Please don't react, I'm just stating to you this is over- blown by media just like they always do. There were things done wrong, but by an employee any school could have....any school. Also paper classes are at every school. More regular students by far took these classes. The only reason I post this is because the media and folks who are not directly involved don't know the details and the real story. UNC is traditionally a non-react school. In this case, I wish they would have come back and defended themselves way more than they did, but it's not their style. Many UNC folks are actually mad at the school because they were too honest, the opened up records and let them interview folks that they didn't have to. All I'm saying is, this was the same type employee that any school could have working for them, and if athletes who had nothing to do with this lady are punished, it's really an injustice. I know folks will react to this, but nobody in the men's BB program is worried. They know they are not getting punished for anything, because they didn't do anything wrong despite the full onslaught by non-fact based reports funded by other college boosters. I would warn you not to judge too quick and learn the real facts. Because UK could be next if non- fact based reports continue to go unchallenged. It is astonishing to me how this has been blown up by ESPN and others, only because it's UNC and over half those in charge at ESPN are Duke grads.go ahead and join the bandwagon, but as soon as one litlle story about coach cal and WWW gets out, the Duke folks at ESPN will be all over it and you will see how unfair it is, and non-fact based.
Similar threads
