I actually disagree with this. There have been some guys that are willing to stay and put in the work and have improved dramatically and raised their NBA worth by a lot. PJ Washington, Nick Richards, IQ. It just doesn’t happen frequently enough.
Livingston likely to stay in the draft
- Thread starter Wildcat-Lane
- Start date
Agreed. However, we all know Cal isn’t gonna fill all 13 scholarships. He might as well let CJ have one. It couldn’t hurt IMO. Definitely need to snag at least one more dead eye shooter in addition to those two, if they indeed do stay.
Oh goodie! For the sake of CJ's body he needs to be done. He has proven over, and over, and over that he can't finish a full season.
I can’t imagine the coaching staff’s headache with dealing with elite players that have been told how good they are since the 7th grade.
Now, make them rich with NIL money and I can see why coaches are leaving
Now, make them rich with NIL money and I can see why coaches are leaving
He very well may be. I’m just not gonna knock the guy. Dude played hurt majority of this season, while others quit.
This is a really dumb take, just being honest. Why wouldn't you test the waters? You get the experience (handy for next year), you get a feel for the process, you make connections at the pro level, you get valuable feedback from those responsible for drafting you, you get a template on what you need to improve going into next year's draft. Did I mention how valuable the experience is of actually going thru the process itself? I mean come on, what a terribly lazy take...
I know it's been said numerous times, but this has always been my main frustration with Cal. He pushes these guys to go even when they do not have nay business going and has created an atmosphere where if you don't leave early you're viewed as a flop. No other team in America has a Chris Livingston player that thinks they should go pro after this year. YES test the waters to see what they have to say that you need to improve upon, but there is no person on God's green Earth that believes Chris Livingston is a first round pick this year...not even Chris Livingston himself lol.
That's right. Texas get your act together! You want Cal on that wall, you need Cal on that wall! Imagine Cal at the Alamo, Texans! "Refuse to lose,!" "Gooooo," and " I can't hide you!" If that wouldn't rally the men at the Alamo, I don't know what will. Shame Shame, Texas! 😁
He’s a fringe 2nd rounder. Meanwhile a guarantee first rounder is returning to Duke.
Our culture sucks and is 100% on Cal.
Our culture sucks and is 100% on Cal.
You would have a point if CL was on anyone's draft board. That’s the issue, don't put this on the fans.
What other school has a culture like this where the coach announces it's a "players first program" and kids literally say they are coming to your school just to leave as fast as they can? Don’t say duke, because they don't do that, they promote their program.
Chris Livingston could make a couple million at UK next year, but he is either going to the draft, where he might not make anything, or he's going to transfer. How can you put that on the fans that are just calling out what's happening?
No, Chris Livingston has very little skill, he has size, a good body and athletesism, but he has very little in the way of skill, which is why he's not showing up on draft boards.
You’re right, but Chris never showed potential. There are a ton of guys Chris' size that have far better stats.
Chris is going to be told to go back to college, he has nothing the NBA wants right now.
And speaking of Duke, just saw that Tyrese Proctor is returning for soph yr...and he was actually a fringe first round pick, unlike Livingston, who as you mentioned, isn't even on any draft boards.
Unbelievable.
It has to be pretty bad if a kid that got everything he and his camp wanted + serious NIL money + every game on ESPN, but STILL leaves for the draft even though he will most likely go 2nd round with no guarantees on anything aaaaand he could make millions in NIL at UK next season.
The kid is definitely getting bad advice, he must be getting it from Kahlil Whitney's dad, but still, you have to be a fool to turn down what you would get at UK when you could end up with very little if you jump.
It’s the culture and what's worse, even if the next coach is all about 3 and 4 year players, it's going to take him many years to get this reputation off the program.
I hate that UK is known as one-and-done-U.
It does make you wonder though, how guys like PJ Washington and Immanuel Quickley return, but these other guys don't.
I am all for putting some blame on Cal, but the majority of these guys have too many ppl in their ears telling them how good they are (just to get money off them), when in reality they are nowhere near being the 12th guy on an NBA bench.
Just not sure what UK/Cal can do, when so many players have their minds made up before they step on campus. I would say don't recruit those guys, but so many of them have a lot of talent and can be difference makers, that you don't want to pass on them.
I agree, somehow Cal needs to change his messaging to ensure these guys stick around, but it is tough to do that when your entire tenure at UK has been based around getting guys to the league as quickly possible.
These kids and their handlers have been “testing the waters” with the NBA since they were 12 years old. EVERYONE knows this but you apparently. This kid and his entourage are in CONSTANT contact with NBA scouts AND teams.
Going to the combine or working out for teams will do NO BETTER than what they ALREADY know about Chris. So it all comes down to if there are some or even ONE team that is willing to give him a guaranteed contract.
So ACTUALLY your take is the one that is “lazy” AND “dumb”!!
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But it is on Cal. He created the culture, he declared UK as a players first program, he does pro days and he turned UK into one-and-done-u.
Chris and Wallace told everyone they were leaving here as fast as they could and that was before they stepped on campus.
If you're going to run this type of program, you better get the absolute top shelf kids, the worst thing you can do is bring in 2nd tier 5* kids, because they aren't polished, they can't shoot and they can't defend, they simply have potential. So they come in for 1 year with a list of demands and leave after accomplishing almost nothing.
Quickly and PJ are outliers, for every PJ Washington, you can name 3 that left, but should have come back.
LOL!!!!! So CatBen on Rupps Rafters has more intimate knowledge of the NBA process than does Cal and the NBA?!?! How narcissistic can you be?!?!
You're simply wrong. I don't know what else to tell you - YOU ARE WRONG. These guys, FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN THEIR LIVES, will be able to have a formal "tryout" with NBA execs. NBA teams will be able to put them in drills, situations, tests that THEY want - not watching them play in an AAU game or watching their college games. They'll be able to test them HOW THEY WANT. I remember Brandon Knight or Eric Bledsoe said his invite to the Celtics was the most physically exhausting basketball experience of his life.
If you think what these guys have experienced with "Testing the waters" prior to these experience is legit and accurate, you have absolutely zero credibility in this discussion. ZERO.
How can you - seriously man - how can you possible say "going to the combine or working out for teams will do NO BETTER than what they ALREADY know.." - how can you say that and honestly think anyone on here will respect what you have to say?!!? Just honestly one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here.
Do you have any idea how many guys have IMPROVED their stock by doing this, AND how many players have LOWERED their stock by doing this? It absolutely matters
Look at that, in 5 mins you actually figured out the solution!
Brandon Knight and Eric Bledsoe were 2 SURE FIRE 1st round picks. Comparing their situation to Livingston’s is what is ridiculous!!
Chris has OBVIOUS flaws, the biggest being his shooting with his hand placement on the ball and follow through. It needs A LOT of work. Will the NBA Combine or a private workout FIX that??? He also has WEAK HANDS and loses the ball too easily rebounding or going up in traffic.
Him AND his entourage know this through Cal AND his NBA contacts ALREADY. So, when he goes to the combine the scouts are going to tell him he’s NOT ready. But, I have already conceded that there may be a team that is WILLING to sign him on potential alone that thinks they can fix these problems BETTER than another year in college would.
Going to the combine won’t CHANGE his deficiencies and ANY team that wants him can contact his handlers and likely already have.
Name the last highly rated player that came to UK because of tradition. I also think Reed choose UK because his father pushed him in that direction. If Shep ends up buried on UK's bench because he lands in Calipari's doghouse, you can kiss that loyalty goodbye as well.
I agree Calipari doesn't run a system that offers players the best opportunity to display their talents. That's why I have real doubts that Sheppard stays as long as he could if Calipari remains UK's coach.
If you think the purpose of going to the combine is to CHANGE deficiencies, then again - you're making it obvious how very little you know about this process.
I'm sure you're aware of the narrative across the NBA that Cal hasn't been preparing and using his guys for the modern NBA, right? In many NBA circles, Cal (and his offense) has cost guys a couple draft spots in the past. Part of the reason Cal has missed out on some elite guys lately, but I digress.
This is all the more reason that UK guys utilize the draft process. Even Cal has PUBLICLY said that ALL of his players should test the waters, no matter what. But CatBen knows better, right?
The point of the Knight/Bledsoe anecdote wasn't to compare their situations. It was that even though both were "sure fire 1st rounders" they said how valuable and eye-opening the experience was. So why wouldn't all players use the process available to them? Ugo, Livingston, Collins, Reeves - they should ALL use the process
They ALL can, but it is NOT going to CHANGE where they are in the minds of the NBA teams because the HANDLERS of all of these players are in contact with the NBA people.
Oh, I definitely AGREE with you about Cal’s system, especially on offense. But to compare what the combine WAS 13 years ago to what it has become today is just conflating. The combine is for the OVERLOOKED kids to shine, not the Top 10 kids of their age group who have been watched since they were 12.
Heck, the sure fire kids don’t even go to the Combine now.
If he’s testing the waters , I hope he learns to swim.
Duke is getting back Proctor next season. Must be nice to have a lottery pick talent level guard returning for a 2nd season.
A few things wrong with this. Proctor is projected to go 30th in the draft, not lottery. Also, he reclassified from the 23 class, so he skipped his senior year of high school to play this year. Finally, it's s sort of a poor team to use for your argument when they are possibly losing Lively, Whitehead, Roach, Filipowski, and maybe Mitchell.
That said, I really love this quote/decision from him:
"It's all about winning, and that starts this summer," Proctor told ESPN. "Having a full offseason on campus will be extremely valuable for my continued development, and I am looking forward to leading our talented incoming class."
Proctor will forgo the opportunity to compete for a spot on the Australian senior national team as part of the FIBA World Cup in September and instead will spend the majority of the offseason building chemistry with his new teammates on campus.
Here’s a crazy thought…
Maybe he figured out Calipari is a snake oil salesman, instead of an actual coach! Would that make Chris Livingston a BB Benny?😭
Maybe he figured out Calipari is a snake oil salesman, instead of an actual coach! Would that make Chris Livingston a BB Benny?😭
What a disservice these agencies and “handlers“ are doing to these young men who only see riches and fame before them. For every one that makes the NBA there will be 20 that don’t and they will be out of basketball in a year or two; the agents, handlers, and hangers-on will be gone too.
Glad he has that mindset and I’m glad we took the chance for a year. But if that’s the only unexpected guy that returns we are going to have big problems next year. I don’t see us getting 3 guys from the portal like we need to.
As of now, this whole thread is complete speculation regarding Livingston. He will certainly enter his name though.
Which is part of the problem.
Hell no offense to Livingston, but if he is a first rounder, I need to stick my name in the draft, I could go in the later rounds if this is true. I doubt it, just did not see enough from him but it's his decision.
Well, I just don’t see Toppin, Oscar or Wheeler returning. I’m just speaking of the seniors only. Not talking about CL or Ugo.
