Ive been going since the 50s. The school takes full advantage of the fans year in year out. Our AD is a joke. He is out of basketball as Cal would not have come if he had to deal with Barney. So that leaves Football and the Olympic sports. He is basically a caretaker who comes in and spends all day telling you who he wont hire. Hate Petrino all you want but the guy is a hell of a coach. I actually think that would have been a long term hire. What is Barneys track record in hiring? Don't mention Cal because he was not a part of that and isn't today. Stoops, Morris, Tubbyann, BCG, Joker, the list goes on and on. Millions and millions and millions of wasted dollars and yet no home run hires. Not a one. Im pretty much resigned to the fact I will never see good football in my lifetime and that is a damn shame. We have the most loyal fans in the world. They come year after year. At one point in my life I went to all the home and away games we played for 14 years straight. Till Barney goes though I'm pretty convinced we will never seen a winning program at UK.
Help me understand why Louisville has a better football program than UK
- Thread starter Kampus Korner
- Start date
At one point, you would have been right. At present time, it is true that UK has better facilities (though UL would still probably claim that their stadium is better).
This isn't that important but just to clarify, when Howard was at Louisville, they were in no conference. Louisville was an independent playing Tennessee (2), Ohio State (2), Arizona State(3), Florida State (2) , Miami (1) Florida (1), Texas (2), Texas A&M (3), Pitt (?) , WVU (4) during his time here. The conference issue began in 1996 and was why Howard left, he didn't want to join conference USA. Your statement about the conference is true from that point on but never applied to Howard's time at Louisville from 85-95. "Weak schedules" became an issue after joining a league...not during Howards run. Those were awesome schedules.
I can provide some perspective as well. Not a UK fan but am from the state and from families full of both Cats and Cards. I will make a couple of points that I've seen.
1. SEC is a reason - not an excuse. Kentucky fans were happy with the direction Brooks had the program in, and with good reason. Electric players (cobb, Woodson, etc.), big games (LSU comes to mind), bowl wins over very strong programs. Kentucky fans don't have delusions of grandeur of competing with Bama, Florida, or LSU for SEC titles - but they do want to compete for wins. South Carolina, Missouri, and somewhat recently Vanderbilt proved that this is possible anywhere in the conference. Yes it is a strong conference but with the right coaching staff and investment anyone can come in and be competitive for bowl games and top 25 seasons. The SEC East is SO DOWN recently, imagine if UK stayed on the path Brooks had them? Some of those teams could absolutely compete to win the division this year - fully believe it.
2. Don't celebrate recruiting. Celebrate wins. - See this a lot from UK fans and friends I know, and it's understandable. Stoops has done a tremendous job taking talent from states like Ohio along with in the state. Because of this UK has had very respectable recruiting ranks and I see UK fans rub this in the face of Louisville fans as of it means anything. It doesn't until it translates. Maybe in a sport like Basketball where Kentucky gets 5 star phenoms and 2-3 players can made the difference between an average team and a championship it matters, but a guy like Drew Barker coming to UK doesn't mean anything unless he develops. Also, recruiting rankings for players and positions are HIGHLY speculative especially between 3 and 4 star players. Louisville has made a living getting the 3 stars no one cares about in Florida while UK has fought hard for good players locally which could be a waste of resources. Got news for you as well, Big Ten as a conference is rising again as much as I hate to say it and recruiting from Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, etc. aint getting easier. 'Play for an SEC school' means less now than it did 5 years ago thanks to the moves OSU, Michigan, Penn State, and MSU have made.
3. Win at all costs. Maybe the most important factor. I cannot stress how much of a once-in-a-lifetime chance getting Petrino was. Jurich doesn't give a damn about reputation, he cares about wins - and for good reason. He knows that news cycles are short and everyone will forget once the wins come pouring in (look at any crime committed by a major athlete, look at scandals at other schools, etc. etc.). Yes making fun of Petrino's past is great fodder for the fans and insults are encouraged in the smack talk, but as with recruiting end of the day wins are wins. I have a tremendous respect for Petrino as a coach. He got Louisville in the CUSA to a top 10 team and then later close to the National Championship game. He took Arkansas to the BCS and had them competing neck and neck with the SEC's best (and Arkansas is by no means a top program in conference). He develops offenses and QBs at a rate that might not have ever been seen at the collegiate level with this consistency. He is, I truly believe this, a top 5 coach that with a better moral compass would be considered in the same breath as guys like Urban Meyer. Well he had his scandal which means a top 5 coach could be bought at a DEEP discount by a program like UK or Louisville. Louisville took him, Kentucky didn't, because UK is too basketball focused to have the urgency to win in football.
If you think it's bad now just wait. I honestly believe that while Petrino is still a slimeball he is at UL for good and you will see teams like this one every couple of years by them. "Jackson is a one time talent" sounds every bit as comical as Louisville basketball fans saying "John Wall is a one time talent". Look at how turned out. Louisville has had QBs like Lefors (put up crazy numbers) Brohm (heisman candidate), Bridgewater (heisman candidate), and now Jackson (heisman frontrunner). If you think once Jackson leaves things will go back to normal you will be in for a rude awakening.
1. SEC is a reason - not an excuse. Kentucky fans were happy with the direction Brooks had the program in, and with good reason. Electric players (cobb, Woodson, etc.), big games (LSU comes to mind), bowl wins over very strong programs. Kentucky fans don't have delusions of grandeur of competing with Bama, Florida, or LSU for SEC titles - but they do want to compete for wins. South Carolina, Missouri, and somewhat recently Vanderbilt proved that this is possible anywhere in the conference. Yes it is a strong conference but with the right coaching staff and investment anyone can come in and be competitive for bowl games and top 25 seasons. The SEC East is SO DOWN recently, imagine if UK stayed on the path Brooks had them? Some of those teams could absolutely compete to win the division this year - fully believe it.
2. Don't celebrate recruiting. Celebrate wins. - See this a lot from UK fans and friends I know, and it's understandable. Stoops has done a tremendous job taking talent from states like Ohio along with in the state. Because of this UK has had very respectable recruiting ranks and I see UK fans rub this in the face of Louisville fans as of it means anything. It doesn't until it translates. Maybe in a sport like Basketball where Kentucky gets 5 star phenoms and 2-3 players can made the difference between an average team and a championship it matters, but a guy like Drew Barker coming to UK doesn't mean anything unless he develops. Also, recruiting rankings for players and positions are HIGHLY speculative especially between 3 and 4 star players. Louisville has made a living getting the 3 stars no one cares about in Florida while UK has fought hard for good players locally which could be a waste of resources. Got news for you as well, Big Ten as a conference is rising again as much as I hate to say it and recruiting from Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, etc. aint getting easier. 'Play for an SEC school' means less now than it did 5 years ago thanks to the moves OSU, Michigan, Penn State, and MSU have made.
3. Win at all costs. Maybe the most important factor. I cannot stress how much of a once-in-a-lifetime chance getting Petrino was. Jurich doesn't give a damn about reputation, he cares about wins - and for good reason. He knows that news cycles are short and everyone will forget once the wins come pouring in (look at any crime committed by a major athlete, look at scandals at other schools, etc. etc.). Yes making fun of Petrino's past is great fodder for the fans and insults are encouraged in the smack talk, but as with recruiting end of the day wins are wins. I have a tremendous respect for Petrino as a coach. He got Louisville in the CUSA to a top 10 team and then later close to the National Championship game. He took Arkansas to the BCS and had them competing neck and neck with the SEC's best (and Arkansas is by no means a top program in conference). He develops offenses and QBs at a rate that might not have ever been seen at the collegiate level with this consistency. He is, I truly believe this, a top 5 coach that with a better moral compass would be considered in the same breath as guys like Urban Meyer. Well he had his scandal which means a top 5 coach could be bought at a DEEP discount by a program like UK or Louisville. Louisville took him, Kentucky didn't, because UK is too basketball focused to have the urgency to win in football.
If you think it's bad now just wait. I honestly believe that while Petrino is still a slimeball he is at UL for good and you will see teams like this one every couple of years by them. "Jackson is a one time talent" sounds every bit as comical as Louisville basketball fans saying "John Wall is a one time talent". Look at how turned out. Louisville has had QBs like Lefors (put up crazy numbers) Brohm (heisman candidate), Bridgewater (heisman candidate), and now Jackson (heisman frontrunner). If you think once Jackson leaves things will go back to normal you will be in for a rude awakening.
It is better, by 2018 it will be a lot better. Pride causes an Inability lto accept reality. This is part of the problem. Louisville has all these beautiful, new, expensive 1st rate athletic facilities all grouped together, baseball, soccer, football, tennis, swimming, field hockey. To say that we have "better athletic facilities" is downright delusional.
As a Kentucky fan, I hate to read this but the facts are the facts. Such facts ought to motivate the UK decision makers to come up with a plan to match Louisville's success but I doubt it will happen. It never has. Barnhart's decision making, when it comes to critical hires for the athletic programs that pay for the sustainability of all the other minor sports is woefully inept. He completely malpracticed the coaching decision following Tubby's departure.. He could have had Calipari at the time he chose Billy Gillispie but he thought Calipari did not possess enough of a pristine character to be his basketball coach. Had Barnhart done any semblance of due diligence research about Billy Gillispie, he should have readily discovered that Billy never had the required skills to coach at a prime time university. Then, after witnessing the gross errors of his decision making, .he was forced to set aside his own personal moral compass and hire Calipari or risk being tarred, feathered and run out of town by Big Blue Nation. At the time, hiring Calipari saved his job. Fortunately, for Barnhart, Calipari still wanted to come to UK.
His decision to hire Brooks, who had not coached anybody for several years was initially poorly received. Thankfully for Barnhart, Brooks pulled a "Lazarus like" resurrection of the UK football program just when Big Blue Nation was ready to put a for sale sign in Brooks' front yard. By going to 4 straight minor bowls, Brooks had put UK in the best position since Bear Bryant dumped us for Texas A&M in 1953 to lure a top flight, well known head coach. Instead, Barnhart opts to hire someone virtually no one else in the country had heard of and who had never been a head coach. Joker was a miserable failure.
After the Joker debacle, the UK position lost much of its appeal to top shelf coaches, (except for Petrino who begged to come here). Petrino however, didn't fit Barnhart's moral requirements either, (notwithstanding Barnhart's well publicized religious beliefs, he apparently doesn't believe it is Christian to give a second chance to a sinner) So, Barnhart opts for another assistant coach who had never been a head coach. Then, in 2014, after Stoops shows some promise after beating up on a few patsies and winning against a South Carolina team that was beginning to head towards the abyss, Barnhart, decides to give Stoops a $1.25 million per year increase in salary and guarantee it for 5 more years. He subsequently gives Stoops' assistants guaranteed contracts such that if Stoops and his assistants were fired without cause, it would cost the University of Kentucky $18 plus million dollars.
Now, the UK head football coaching position is even less desirable by top tier coaches. UK, without question, is the "graveyard of coaches". No one since Blanton Collier was fired in 1962 has parlayed the UK head job into something better. UK fired Collier, who, two years later, became the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Collier proceeded to coach the Browns to the NFL championship in 1964, the year before the Super Bowl started. Some will suggest Guy Morris improved himself after he left UK but at the time he went to Baylor, that school was as pathetic as UK having not had a winning season in the previous 8 years before Morris became coach. Alas, Morris couldn't win either going 18-40 during his 5 years before Baylor fired him. All the rest of the former UK head coaches went even further down hill in their football careers or simply got out of football after leaving UK. Louisville, on the other hand, since 1985, has had Howard Schnellenberger, John L. Smith, Bobby Petrino and Charlie Strong move on to more prestigious positions. For the most part, Louisville's head coaches are sought after by other programs. However, nobody wants a former UK head football coach. They may as well be wearing a "scarlet letter" around their necks.
Will UK ever change its ways to be successful in football? If history is any predictor of what the future will be, one would have to conclude there is no way it will change. At this point, as unattractive as the UK head coaching position is, UK would have to pay some prime time coach $5 plus million dollars a year for 7 years to even have a hope of getting us out of these miserable doldrums. I don't see Barnhart making such a bold move.
Their defense is formidable, one of the best in the country, but without Lamar, they wouldn't be on a path to the NC this year. They would still be good, maybe a 8-4 / 9-3 type year, but not blowing the doors off of FSU type year.
I think it goes deeper than Bill Olsen getting Howard Schnellenberger or Tom Jurich showing up in 1997. The real wheels behind those actions are what you would call community pillars and what I have argued in the last year is a real concern for me as a Louisvillian. Yes Bill Olsen was at the helm when Schnellenberger was brought in...but it was Malcolm Chancey and Owsley Brown-Frazier who were those titans who made the hirings of Schnellenberger and Jurich possible.
Those two were the foundation for our football ascendancy and the hirings that are often cited as pivots for UofL football; if you want to know the blunt and black-and-white truth...Kentucky doesn't have the same Buy In with it's Titans--the Seth Hancocks of the world, the W.T. Youngs from the 70's to the 2000's. They are there in the lower arena at Rupp, but are they beating the bushes for the type of Athletic Director that can get you turned into the wind like Jurich has for us?
Those two were the foundation for our football ascendancy and the hirings that are often cited as pivots for UofL football; if you want to know the blunt and black-and-white truth...Kentucky doesn't have the same Buy In with it's Titans--the Seth Hancocks of the world, the W.T. Youngs from the 70's to the 2000's. They are there in the lower arena at Rupp, but are they beating the bushes for the type of Athletic Director that can get you turned into the wind like Jurich has for us?
This pretty much sums it up.
And to the OP: No disrespect intended, but you DO NOT have better facilities than UofL. If you truly believe that, you're out of touch with reality.
I apologize that you have to suffer through my "out of reality post" but help me understand how Louisville has better football facilities than UK after our upgrades? I'm trying to get back in touch with reality. Thank you and no offense.
It's not something that can be easily explained. If you're able, I would highly suggest visiting both campuses and see for yourself. PJCS has all seats vs the bleachers at UK. The Trager Center is top notch. The Schnellenberger complex is state of the art. UofL has been building, expanding and improving for years. UK did just do an upgrade to facilities, which is good, but it's still not what UofL has. If you watch a game on TV, you often hear the commentators say that UofL has facilities that are second to none (except in stadium capacity). The Thornton academic center just opened. The Stadium is getting ready to enclose the North End zone and add 10,000 more seats with more luxury suites. The improvements of UofL's facilities in all sports never stops.
This article was linked by someone earlier in the thread. It's 3 years old, but it talks about UofLs facilities at that time. They've done nothing but improve since then, and not just in football.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/sports/at-louisville-an-athletic-boom-made-for-and-by-tv.html?_r=0
Again, no disrespect intended, but you're simply wrong when you claim that UK has better facilities.
And, again, you're right that UL has overall facilities in all sports and I would likely agree that UL's stadium is of higher caliber (chair backs vs. bench backs, though it's still in a shitty part of town surrounded by smokestacks and industrial drudge). UK's football facilities in 2017 are not inferior to that of UL (and yes, I was on UL's campus over the winter, so I am not speaking without having experienced UL's alleged wonderland first-hand).
While Mitch may well deserve criticism for not hiring Petrino, many UK fans who berate him over and over and over are losing sight of a very important fact. Mitch is hardly the only AD who failed to hire Petrino.
Bobby Petrino was hired at WKU for the 2013 season. For that season, UK hired Stoops. A total of 30 FBS, excluding Western, hired new head coaches. 14 of those schools were Power 5 schools, and they included: Auburn, Wisconsin, California, NC State, Tennessee, Colorado, Texas Tech, Arkansas, and Oregon. Arkansas wasn't going to hire Petrino, obviously. How about the other schools? Why didn't they hire Petrino? Not a single one of these schools (all of which are probably more attractive positions than UK) hired Petrino. If Petrino was willing to go to WKU, and was willing to go to UK, is there any doubt that he would have been interested in Oregon or Auburn or Tennessee? Well, they weren't interested in him. So, how is Mitch uniquely stupid for passing on him?
Next year- he goes to Louisville. Jobs opened up at Penn St., Texas, Washington, USC, all programs considerably more prestigious and attractive than Louisville. Why didn't one of these schools pursue Petrino?
I can understand how the guy is ripped for not getting Coach Cal the first time around. The fact is, that very few schools would have passed him up, and he wanted to come here, and we passed. It's not the same situation with Petrino. No credible program in America in '13 or '14 would have touched him. If they would have, he wouldn't have considered coming to UK in the first place.
Bobby Petrino was hired at WKU for the 2013 season. For that season, UK hired Stoops. A total of 30 FBS, excluding Western, hired new head coaches. 14 of those schools were Power 5 schools, and they included: Auburn, Wisconsin, California, NC State, Tennessee, Colorado, Texas Tech, Arkansas, and Oregon. Arkansas wasn't going to hire Petrino, obviously. How about the other schools? Why didn't they hire Petrino? Not a single one of these schools (all of which are probably more attractive positions than UK) hired Petrino. If Petrino was willing to go to WKU, and was willing to go to UK, is there any doubt that he would have been interested in Oregon or Auburn or Tennessee? Well, they weren't interested in him. So, how is Mitch uniquely stupid for passing on him?
Next year- he goes to Louisville. Jobs opened up at Penn St., Texas, Washington, USC, all programs considerably more prestigious and attractive than Louisville. Why didn't one of these schools pursue Petrino?
I can understand how the guy is ripped for not getting Coach Cal the first time around. The fact is, that very few schools would have passed him up, and he wanted to come here, and we passed. It's not the same situation with Petrino. No credible program in America in '13 or '14 would have touched him. If they would have, he wouldn't have considered coming to UK in the first place.
I wonder if people realize that Tom walked Bobby into the WKU job. This plan was in place the second Bobby called Tom after the incident in Arkansas. Also, Bobby's family never left Louisville. They have been here building a life and he came back to be a part of it.
Secondly, UK football is the ugly guy at the dance in the corner with body odor and head gear. They don't have the same luxuries of demanding to dance with the prettiest girl like the TN, Penn St, and Texas.
UofL doesn't care about the drama and soap opera garbage. Win games and entertain. This is sports
Yet, sometime Louisville gets the drama and soap opera anyway. To wit- Katrina. To wit- Porcini's.
True, and no one cares as long as you win and entertain. UofL fans are on cloud nine with a National Champion contender so hopefully UK fans are happy believing their coaches are snuggled up in bed with their wives by 10pm every night. I know which one sells more tickets. America loves redemption stories. They don't care about never was'
Yes, well, Louisville might have won a basketball title last year (I doubt it, but it wasn't out of the question), but they weren't able to play for it. Occasionally the soap opera stuff does have an actual effect on the field, or on the court.
Agree 100% on this...no argument on that. Brutal actually
Nonetheless, I love the Bobby hire and supported it from day 1. Most exciting show in college football IMO
I've been asking this same question for 20 years.
ANSWER: Jurich runs circles around Mitch.
The guy who did the color on the So Miss game that played at Texas said on the broadcast that after touring the new UK facilities that he thought it was the best in the country. Just saying
Look at UL coaching staff. Look at coaching staff of other SEC programs. They are 3 times the size of UK's staff. That would suggest to me that we don't have enough eyes on position players. Not defending Stoops in any way shape or form.....But this staff is stretched way too thin!
I'm sorry but no way is CWS nicer than PJCS. In present state or in future state (expansion begins this November). The academic center just opened last month in the South endzone part of the stadium and in November construction begins on the North endzone closing in that endzone with new seats, luxury boxes and field level suites. And last I checked, there are no smoke stacks and "industrial drudge" surrounding the stadium. Are there some businesses across Floyd St? Yes but they are functioning businesses. They slowly are being bought out by UofL as they come available and new expansions of the campus creep in that direction.
Tom Jurich, WIN at all cost.....yes Louisville is winning and top 5....but come on Petrino(integrity?).... BBN, half would say "screw integrity, let's WIN! (See Fran Curci)"), the other half would say, let's DO IT RIGHT! No matter what! (See Rich Brooks)
Haven't read any responses in the thread...the reason...uofl will take anyone in and put them on the roster, while UK tries to always take the high road and be happy moral school. Uofl takes any kid that's kicked off an SEC school...which getting kicked off an SEC school you must be pretty bad. Or anywhere else...don't they have a kid starting from TCU that was kicked off for a gun charge?
Plus BP is an offensive mastermind, he'll get the most out of any of those kids. Stoops is bringing in good talent....but he's not developing it. I'm pretty sure Lamar Jackson was recruited as a DB, not a QB
Plus BP is an offensive mastermind, he'll get the most out of any of those kids. Stoops is bringing in good talent....but he's not developing it. I'm pretty sure Lamar Jackson was recruited as a DB, not a QB
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![[poop]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682179.png "Poop [poop]")
The ability to control the schedule in perrenial weak Conferences help build Louisville football..UK has played in the Toughest league since 1933 has hampered its progress.UK has made some unfortunate hires at Head Coach and thus the results.
Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if UK would have had the vision to hire Schnellenberger all those years ago, instead of Louisville ?
That is a very good point, that is often missed. I remember with Kragthorpe was their coach, many of their fans were in mutiny after the first year and we made fun of them for being reactionary, not standing behind their program, not supporting it, and not supporting and trusting their AD. We told them they were not patient.
Sometimes, I think we confuse loyalty and support of the program with blind allegiance to a poor product on the field which we know in our hearts is not right or good. We keep whistling through the graveyard.
I think we can be loyal but also we need to be more critical early on and vocal when something is not working. In an effort to be supportive and a loyal UK fan, we sometimes confuse that to mean "putting up with any product for 3-4 years no matter how bad it is and being patient."
There needs to be a fine line and more objectivity and accountability earlier, if something is not working and fans should not be labeled as "not good fans" simply for demanding that product on the field.
That is absolutely a two way street though. Our schedules weren't as tough year in and year out, but we also didn't have access to the recruiting advantages of being in the SEC or, more importantly, the vast resources and money. However, we recognized our limitations and made the most of them. We invested our limited funds wisely, and were willing to play on any day of the week to increase exposure. And while UK fans mocked all our Thursday games, we steadily grew.
The SEC hasn't hampered your progress. That's the same cop out that many are admitting in this very thread. If it was so easy to build a program through lesser conferences, why aren't more schools able to do it? Far more schools have benefitted from SEC affiliation than have ones with UL's history. UK just isn't one of those schools, for reasons your own fans have described herein.
It's really pretty simple. Louisville has made some good coaching hires. Kentucky has not made good coaching hires. UK is in the best football conference, with good facilities and great fans. All you need is the right coach. Pretty simple.
The administration doesn't want to make the effort to win. They've kept and rewarded an AD that other SEC schools would have fired long ago. Barnhart's lack of competence, in major sports, is well documented and his desire to stay hidden in the shadows of minor sports is painfully obvious.
The administration and some fans console themselves in falsely claimed higher standards than successful programs. It is more because of a fear to compete yet a willingness to accept being a football program that is a useless parasite in the SEC.
Barnhart is the poster child for ineptness and lack of self respect. As long as there's a President and BOT that will ignore failure there is little hope for change. That is doubly so for academics.
The administration and some fans console themselves in falsely claimed higher standards than successful programs. It is more because of a fear to compete yet a willingness to accept being a football program that is a useless parasite in the SEC.
Barnhart is the poster child for ineptness and lack of self respect. As long as there's a President and BOT that will ignore failure there is little hope for change. That is doubly so for academics.
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