Biggest "What-If" in UK Basketball History

[NC Weasel]

Here"s two curve balls with MASSIVE implications:

1) we give Bear Bryant a Caddy and he stays to coach here 40+ years

2) we offer Pat Summitt another $1000 and she becomes UK Womens BB coach for her entire career career.

Plus, in a weird way both decisions were loosely connected to men's hoops.

 

[LaCat 70]

What if John Wooden doesn't announce his retirement on the eve of the 1975 National Championship game.

I have wonder about this.

 

[CatColumbia]

What if Keith Bogans doesn't turn his ankle against Wisconsin in 2003?

-Bogans prevents Wade from getting a triple-double and adds more of an offensive threat to beat Marquette?

-Do we beat Kansas and Cuse to go on and win a title?

-Does that Final Four buy Tubby some more time?

-Does Estill come back in 2003-04 to win a title after tasting a Final Four?

I think we still lose regardless. All their guys were on fire that day. Jackson owned Estill.
I definitely think an extra Final Four would have given the Tubster 3 more years.

 

[CatColumbia]

Here"s two curve balls with MASSIVE implications:

1) we give Bear Bryant a Caddy and he stays to coach here 40+ years

2) we offer Pat Summitt another $1000 and she becomes UK Womens BB coach for her entire career career.

Plus, in a weird way both decisions were loosely connected to men's hoops.

Great point on the first one. Let's say if the Bear wins all those championships at UK, are we a basketball school today?

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

Great point on the first one. Let's say if the Bear wins all those championships at UK, are we a basketball school today?

No. Rupp would have eventually left. He did NOT like the attention Bryant was getting, and would appear in tv demanding a raise at the same time.
Regardless of what you read, it was FAR from roses when they were both here.
Some went to their grave hating Rupp. Some were loyal.

Bryant had actually signed a contract to be here through 1965, but left because “certain promises” were not kept. This from Frank Sadler his team mgr.

 

[sambowieshin]

What if Magloire had broken Wojo's back? What if Billy Clyde liked tea more than bourbon?

 

[TopCatCal]

What if Shawn Kemp, after signing a LOI and getting in trouble, Actually stayed and played for Kentucky.

WHAT IF the Emery package that supposedly popped open, had never happened? Imagine what a starting 5 the 1988-89 team would have had. Instead of that team having a 13-19 record. How about a starting 5 of.

Chris Mills - 6'7
LeRon Ellis - 6'11
Shawn Kemp - 6'10
Eric Manuel - 6'6
Rex Chapman - 6'4

What if the SEC had allowed blacks a few years earlier & if it would have been safe to take blacks to the south (Alabama Mississippi) during the 60's.... Imagine Wes Unseld as the starting center on Rupp Runts.
Or how about what our 1969-70 teams starting 5 could have looked like. If Mike Casey hadn't got hurt.

Mike Pratt - 6'4
Jim McDaniels - 7'0
Dan Issel - 6'9
Mike Casey - 6'4
Jim Rose - 6'3

With Unseld as the starting center on our 1966 runners-up team. And with a healthy Mike Casey on our 1970 team to go along with McDaniels & Jim Rose. I believe we would be talking about 2 undefeated teams. And the question would be. Which team was the greatest team in the history of UK basketball our 1966 or our 1970 team.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

No. Rupp would have eventually left. He did NOT like the attention Bryant was getting, and would appear in tv demanding a raise at the same time.
Regardless of what you read, it was FAR from roses when they were both here.
Some went to their grave hating Rupp. Some were loyal.

Bryant had actually signed a contract to be here through 1965, but left because “certain promises” were not kept. This from Frank Sadler his team mgr.

And we have the old story about the Bear and a certain woman who happened to be the daughter of a powerful politician. If that was true heading off to Texas A&M was probably a good move. That and the fact the Kentucky legislature wanted to limit out of state recruiting to make room for Kentucky boys only or mostly. Lots of "legends" to be explored when it comes to Coach Bryant.

But I sure wish he had stayed, things would be much different today on the Kentucky gridiron.

 

[JoeBeeHall]

What would Kyle Macy have pulled on if he didn't wear socks ?

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

And we have the old story about the Bear and a certain woman who happened to be the daughter of a powerful politician. If that was true heading off to Texas A&M was probably a good move. That and the fact the Kentucky legislature wanted to limit out of state recruiting to make room for Kentucky boys only or mostly. Lots of "legends" to be explored when it comes to Coach Bryant.

But I sure wish he had stayed, things would be much different today on the Kentucky gridiron.

If they had a crystal ball back then showing today’s arms race, I’m sure many at UK would have backed the Brinks truck up I’m Bryant’s driveway.
It is too bad things turned out the way they did.

If Bryant had stayed here, he would NOT have run off to his Alma mater as he thought it would be “dirty pool” in the SEC. At a 1970 luncheon, Bryant chastised Doug Dickey for doing the Tennessee-Florida switch. He was only in Junction a few years (SWC), then off to “momma”.

That said, IDGAF what anyone says, the Bear needs a statue here.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I would say it would be a net of one. Because if we won in 2011, then we probably wouldn't have won in 2012 because I believe the players that stayed for 2012 would have likely left after winning the championship in 2011. Still could have won in 2012, but it would be a lot less likely.

2015 and 2017.

 

[stoneycat_20]

Ralph Sampson picking UK.

This..We would have won 3-4 titles with Ralph on the early 80's teams

 

[Ripcord65]

What if the 2015 team had watched game film of Wisconsin prior to that Final Four game. Kaminsky's offensive game was so limited and so predictable, WCS would have only had to see a few minutes of film on him and WCS could have completely shut Kaminsky down. But, of course, "We don't watch film of our opponents."

 

[UK90]

Here"s two curve balls with MASSIVE implications:

1) we give Bear Bryant a Caddy and he stays to coach here 40+ years

The problem with Bear Bryant was not a caddy--that's just a myth--instead it was him being pressured to recruit more in-state players (to the point of him being threatened that the State Legislature would soon pass legislation forcing him to do it). That's what really pushed Bear to leave.

If Ky's politicians had left him alone, and let him run his program how he wanted, and recruit whoever he wanted (which on his best UK teams was predominantly Ohio and Pennsylvania kids), then the Bear might've stayed decades longer.

 

[2Adulterers]

What if Grad students could have played in 54'

What if we had lost to duke in 66'

What if Issel doesn't foul out in 70'

What if we shoot 47% instead of 3 for 33 against G-Town.

The foul on Issel was terrible Vaughn Wedking jumped in front of Dan it was blocking
Mark Soderburg came in for Dan and held his own Tom Parker also got some key baskets too little too late

 

[2Adulterers]

The problem with Bear Bryant wasn't a caddy--that's just a myth--instead it was him being pressured to recruit more in-state players (to the point of being threatened that the State Legislature would soon pass legislation forcing him to do it). That's what really pushed Bear to leave.

If we'd left him alone, and let him run his program however he wanted, and recruit whoever he wanted (which on his best UK teams was predominantly Ohio and Pennsylvania kids), without outside influence, then the Bear might've stayed decades longer.

Also the Millions that Texas A & M offered was a factor

 

[2Adulterers]

Mike Casey


A car crash shattered his leg in summer of 1969.

Casey was in the same class with Dan Issel and Mike Pratt, but it was Casey who led the team in scoring as a sophomore.

He averaged 20 points his sophomore and junior years. All -SEC both seasons.

Kentucky went in to the 1970 tournament 25-1 and ranked #1. (We might have been undefeated with a healthy senior Casey.)

We lost in a great Mideast Regional final against powerful #4 Jacksonville.

This was the year after Alcindor (Kareem) had graduated in 1969. (Walton wouldn’t play for another year.) UCLA was good, but not unbeatable

I was Casey’s Roommate in 1969 the accident was July 30 of 1969 I drove Coach Rupp to Louisville to St.Joseph Infirmary where Casey was taken by ambulance he was cut out of wreck by Waddy FD new dangled Jaws of Life or Casey would have perished in the accident Rest In Peace Case

 

[2Adulterers]

WHAT IF the Emery package that supposedly popped open, had never happened? Imagine what a starting 5 the 1988-89 team would have had. Instead of that team having a 13-19 record. How about a starting 5 of.

Chris Mills - 6'7
LeRon Ellis - 6'11
Shawn Kemp - 6'10
Eric Manuel - 6'6
Rex Chapman - 6'4

What if the SEC had allowed blacks a few years earlier & if it would have been safe to take blacks to the south (Alabama Mississippi) during the 60's.... Imagine Wes Unseld as the starting center on Rupp Runts.
Or how about what our 1969-70 teams starting 5 could have looked like. If Mike Casey hadn't got hurt.

Mike Pratt - 6'4
Jim McDaniels - 7'0
Dan Issel - 6'9
Mike Casey - 6'4
Jim Rose - 6'3

With Unseld as the starting center on our 1966 runners-up team. And with a healthy Mike Casey on our 1970 team to go along with McDaniels & Jim Rose. I believe we would be talking about 2 undefeated teams. And the question would be. Which team was the greatest team in the history of UK basketball our 1966 or our 1970 team.

Casey would have kept us from losing to Jacksonville

 

[UK90]

Also the Millions that Texas A & M offered was a factor

LOL at how out of touch this post is. No coach in any sport anywhere in the word was making anywhere remotely near "millions" at that time.

But, hey, 15K is kinda like "millions", right?

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2014/04/bear_bryant_made_15000_a_year.html

 

[docholiday51]

The foul on Issel was terrible Vaughn Wedking jumped in front of Dan it was blocking
Mark Soderburg came in for Dan and held his own Tom Parker also got some key baskets too little too late

As I recall Issel was running down the floor after a made basket and the J-ville player just stopped in front of him and Issel ran over him. The play didn't have anything to do with anything other than to get Issel out of the game.

 

[tapemaster8]

What is your biggest "What-If" in UK history? I want a bunch of you to give your what-if...and 3-4 things that would have happened if your condition was met. (Examples - Pitino doesn't leave, Meeks returns for his Senior year, Eddie does not get caught cheating, Etc.)


I'll start


What if John Calipari was hired in 2007 instead of Billy Gillespie?

-Derrick Rose signs with Kentucky
-Everyone important...including Randolph Morris...returns
-Patterson still signs
-Sandy Bell/Calipari make sure Rose's ACT is never an issue

A starting lineup of:
Morris
Patterson
Crawford
Bradley/Meeks
Rose

I think that is a dominant team that could have challenged for the national title. 3 really good seniors with an elite freshman in Rose...oh and PPat was pretty good too BTW. No NIT and No Gardner Webb. Our rise back to the top would have been immediate.

And who knows, by year 2 we could have seen a Tyreke Evans and Jodie Meeks back-court.

What if Mike Casey hadn't broke his leg! What if Issel hadn't fouled out against Jacksonville. What if Bogans hadn't sprained his ankle! What is Mash hadn't fouled out against Duke!

 

[Sawnee Cat]

If they had a crystal ball back then showing today’s arms race, I’m sure many at UK would have backed the Brinks truck up I’m Bryant’s driveway.
It is too bad things turned out the way they did.

If Bryant had stayed here, he would NOT have run off to his Alma mater as he thought it would be “dirty pool” in the SEC. At a 1970 luncheon, Bryant chastised Doug Dickey for doing the Tennessee-Florida switch. He was only in Junction a few years (SWC), then off to “momma”.

That said, IDGAF what anyone says, the Bear needs a statue here.

Funny you bring up Dickey and you are right on. One of the best moments of my UK football fandom life was being in the Swamp in 1977 watching our Cats put it to the Gators. The fans next to me were so mad at Doug Dickey they were yelling "get a rope". I have never heard so many boos in my life as when he left the field.

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

Funny you bring up Dickey and you are right on. One of the best moments of my UK football fandom life was being in the Swamp in 1977 watching our Cats put it to the Gators. The fans next to me were so mad at Doug Dickey they were yelling "get a rope". I have never heard so many boos in my life as when he left the field.

Awesome!
IIRC, UK and UF series was about tied then

 

[2Adulterers]

As I recall Issel was running down the floor after a made basket and the J-ville player just stopped in front of him and Issel ran over him. The play didn't have anything to do with anything other than to get Issel out of the game.

It was a set up play talked with Artis Gilmore last week at Ky Colonels reunion he told me that

 

[Wildcat Sheli]

WHAT IF HIGGINS OR LUCKIE HADN'T OFFICIATED?

What if Higgins hadn’t officiated our final games in:

2005 (E8)
2011 (FF)
2015 (FF)
2017 (E8)

Those were heartbreakers for sure, and had multiple question marks to their memory.

What if Luckie hadn’t officiated our final games in 2010 (E8) and 2018 (S16)?

We have never won an Elite Eight or higher with them on the whistle. Every other Elite Eight in the Cal era (2011, 2012, 2014 and 2015) was won, with UK advancing to the Final Four. Without them on the whistle for the Elite Eight or higher, we won the Championship in 2012 and went to the Championship Game in 2014. We lost the 2 Final Fours Higgins officiated in 2011 and 2015. Luckie officiated Cal’s only Sweet 16 loss at UK.

Now, that’s too many “what ifs” for me!

 

[JC CATS]

What if Anderson never got injured in 97. He was soooo explosive and fit so well with Mercer.

Mike Casey 1970
Sam Bowie 2 seasons in 1980's
Anderson 1997
Bogans 2003
WCS
Poythress

Damn injuries

 

[JC CATS]

For me, this is it. The run would have been amazing. As much as Coach Pitino has done since then, I could understand why some would question this but imagine another 10 years of his recruiting and coaching. I think he would have won 3 more championships.

You think he would have survived the Sypher scandal here? Serious question. Of course here it would have been national news for months.

 

[JC CATS]

What if Brandon Knight misses the layup vs. Princeton?

What if Aaron misses a last second 3?

What if Anthony Davis gets hurt in 2012?

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Awesome!
IIRC, UK and UF series was about tied then

It was and for most of my early life we were way ahead in wins. Then Spurrier came along and that changed big time.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

What if the 2015 team had watched game film of Wisconsin prior to that Final Four game. Kaminsky's offensive game was so limited and so predictable, WCS would have only had to see a few minutes of film on him and WCS could have completely shut Kaminsky down. But, of course, "We don't watch film of our opponents."

You are such a damn clown.

Kaminsky dominated most teams he played that season...not a surprise he did well against UK.

 

[mktmaker]

What if Anthony Davis gets hurt in 2012?

OMG! Please don't EVER joke about that!

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

It was and for most of my early life we were way ahead in wins. Then Spurrier came along and that changed big time.

Yes..winnable game here or there.

 

[UpstateNYCat]

NSIAP, What if UK didn't have to play Bama/LSU a fourth time in '86?

If Arkansas hadn't choked against UL in '83? ND against UNC in '77?

 

[Swimcat76]

My list.
1. 1975 National championship Kevin Grevey makes the critical one and one and technical. We get the ball back, score, and seize a 4 point lead.
2. 1992 Duke, Pitino guards the inbound pass from Grant Hill.
3. 2015 Wisconsin, Aaron Harrison hits critical shots the way he did the previous year. I'm wondering if we will ever recover from that loss.
4. Derrick Anderson 1997.
5. Keith Bogans 2003.
6. 1984 Georgetown, one of our worst losses of all time. Joe Hall finds a way to get some offense in the 2nd half.
7. 2005, Michigan State Rhondo scores the last shot in overtime instead of not even getting a shot off.
8. 2016, North Carolina So help me God the only game I ever saw we were cheated out of. Monk and Fox don't get in early foul trouble.

 

[Col. Angus]

Derrick Anderson
Rhondo

 

[truebluewildcat]

For Tubby:

What if Bogans doesn't get hurt?

What if Rajon doesn't go pro early?

For Cal:

What if just 1 NBA bound player returns every year?

What if 2 return every year?

Folks, We're on a Wooden run if OAD talent returns...simple as that...

 

[kev69]

My biggest one is if Meeks had stayed. That team goes undefeated imo.

I also wonder if Dwight Anderson didn't get kicked off the the team. He was a stud. Loved his game.

There's so many what ifs. Most have been covered in this thread.

 

[kev69]

I consider it a blessing that UK didn't get Cal in 07 if it meant Rose would have been here.

In fairness, he did say IFi he had been cleared.

 

[rick64]

Meeks comes back for his senior season to play with Wall, Boogie, Bledsoe and PPat.

 

[ram1955]

The biggest "what-if" is "What if Mike Casey does not break his leg? " He and Issel would have enjoyed Ky's biggest win of all time....beating ucla for the national title.