Which should it be

[willievic]

All of us have opinions, but the only one that really counts is the one that Coach Stoops has. My question is, do we need a TW type QB, or a Pocket Passer. I personally like a dual type QB who can also throw it, even if he can't throw as good as a Pocket Passer. If you go back and look at the SC game (without throwing up again), you will see our OL did not give SS much time to get the ball off. Most of the time, at 2 seconds he was running from a defensive man. A QB needs at least 2.5 to 3 seconds if he is a Pocket Passer. SS was not getting it.
I think Coach Stoops has to make up his mind what kind of QB he is going to go with, and then recruit that type. I don't know about Hoak, but if he was good enough for Ohio State to want, I have doubts about him not being good enough for us. Maybe just not what Coach Stoops wants.
If Coach Stoops wants a dual type QB, then he needs to recruit more then one dual type QB. Look at the teams we have played who had to use their backup because of injuries. The one thing we all know is, "If you don't have a fairly good QB, your not going to win many games."

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[UKfan215]

I prefer the legit dual threat myself. They just add another dimension to your game and make you harder to defend. That said, the guy can't just be an athlete that makes plays with his legs. He's gotta be a decent passer too. Otherwise he makes you even more one dimensional than a pocket passer with the mobility of a tree.

That said, I will take a really good pocket passer over a mediocre dual threat any day of the week. I have never been one to get too caught up in any one system or style. I think you can win running pretty much any type of offense provided you can recruit the type of players needed to run it and be able to execute.

 

[THE_OAK]

I prefer a pocket passer, let him spread the ball around the field getting our WR's and TE's into the passing game and openning the field up for your running backs to gash you. Too big of an injury risk with a running QB, when he goes down the train goes off the rails. It's too important of a position.

 

[C5matt]

I prefer a pocket passer, let him spread the ball around the field getting our WR's and TE's into the passing game and openning the field up for your running backs to gash you. Too big of an injury risk with a running QB, when he goes down the train goes off the rails. It's too important of a position.

I agree!!

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

All of us have opinions, but the only one that really counts is the one that Coach Stoops has. My question is, do we need a TW type QB, or a Pocket Passer. I personally like a dual type QB who can also throw it, even if he can't throw as good as a Pocket Passer. If you go back and look at the SC game (without throwing up again), you will see our OL did not give SS much time to get the ball off. Most of the time, at 2 seconds he was running from a defensive man. A QB needs at least 2.5 to 3 seconds if he is a Pocket Passer. SS was not getting it.
I think Coach Stoops has to make up his mind what kind of QB he is going to go with, and then recruit that type. I don't know about Hoak, but if he was good enough for Ohio State to want, I have doubts about him not being good enough for us. Maybe just not what Coach Stoops wants.
If Coach Stoops wants a dual type QB, then he needs to recruit more then one dual type QB. Look at the teams we have played who had to use their backup because of injuries. The one thing we all know is, "If you don't have a fairly good QB, your not going to win many games."

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Our receivers have more trouble getting open than most teams we play. Not sure a great passing QB that can't run would work. Imagination on offense is very bland and predictable. Just so happen last year we had a RB that could break tackles better than anybody and a rusher that had the mind set and physical ability to slow QB's down at times.

 

[crpoore]

All of us have opinions, but the only one that really counts is the one that Coach Stoops has. My question is, do we need a TW type QB, or a Pocket Passer. I personally like a dual type QB who can also throw it, even if he can't throw as good as a Pocket Passer. If you go back and look at the SC game (without throwing up again), you will see our OL did not give SS much time to get the ball off. Most of the time, at 2 seconds he was running from a defensive man. A QB needs at least 2.5 to 3 seconds if he is a Pocket Passer. SS was not getting it.
I think Coach Stoops has to make up his mind what kind of QB he is going to go with, and then recruit that type. I don't know about Hoak, but if he was good enough for Ohio State to want, I have doubts about him not being good enough for us. Maybe just not what Coach Stoops wants.
If Coach Stoops wants a dual type QB, then he needs to recruit more then one dual type QB. Look at the teams we have played who had to use their backup because of injuries. The one thing we all know is, "If you don't have a fairly good QB, your not going to win many games."

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Stoops opinion is becoming more bewildering by the day. He's not improving as a game coach. In fact, he seems to be getting worse.

 

[dallasg23]

Terry is by far the most athletic QB UK has had in 20 years probably. Duel threat is becoming the norm at nearly every level of the sport. There’s a few more hold outs in the NFL but for the most part many of the better QBs in the league are duel threat guys.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

Stoops opinion is becoming more bewildering by the day. He's not improving as a game coach. In fact, he seems to be getting worse.

‘Bewildering’ is putting it mildly. He is a TERRIBLE in game coach. The Three Stooges could have coached the second half of the Florida game and we would have won. Took a monumental choke job to lose that one. Now we’ve got players yucking it up on the sidelines during an embarrassment of an ass whipping. His salary is a gift.

 

[KY1WING]

I don’t care what we go with... the real question is can we develop them?

Here is the track record -

Jalen Whitlow - (2012-2013) Inherited from Joker and started as QB in 2012. Played one season for Stoops. Asked to move to another position as not an Air Raid QB. Transfers to Eastern Illinois where he finishes career as QB.

Max Smith (2011-2013) - Inherited from Joker. Injured Sophmore season. Played injured Junior season. Transferred to San Diego State his senior year 2014. Started. Won seven straight wins before tearing ACL.

Patrick Towles- (2012, 2014, 2015) Inherited from Joker. Played five games in 2012. 2013-Stoops redshirts him. UK gave him a list of corrections to work on. He went to a HS coach on his own to come back and be competitive. (In other words we didn’t, wouldn’t or couldn’t fix him-he had to go outside the program to get that). Wins starting job in 2014, 2015. 2016, transfers to Boston College where he starts.

Drew Barker-(2014-2016). Stoops recruited and signed Barker from Conner HS in 2014, where he redshirted. Played in five games 2015. Injured in game three of 2016. Did not return. Left football.

Stephen Johnson-(2016-2017) JUCO Transfer from College of Desert. Moved to starter after Drew Barker injured in 2016. Played injured 2017. Had post season surgery. No QB on bench to replaced him once injured.

Terry Wilson-Oregon Redshirt 2016, JUCO Transfer from Garden City Community College 2017, started 2018 and played hurt. Healthy backup Gunnar Hoak could not displace injured Wilson who completed the season. Started 2019 - injured in 2nd game, out for season.

Sawyer Smith-2019 Grad Transfer-Troy. Takes over in game 2. Injured in game 3. Continues to play hurt.

So Stoops has-

-Inherited three QBs from Joker, none who finish their careers here but transfer out and play starting QBs elsewhere.

- Signs one HS QB who goes down to injuries and quit football.

- Signs two JUCO QBs and one Grad Transfer QB all who played at least one season hurt as no one on the bench healthy was better than the injured QB.

I’m sure all will be well, but there is something about this track record makes me a little nervous.

 

[gamecockcat]

Terry is by far the most athletic QB UK has had in 20 years probably. Duel threat is becoming the norm at nearly every level of the sport. There’s a few more hold outs in the NFL but for the most part many of the better QBs in the league are duel threat guys.

You mean like Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Stafford, Rivers and Wilson? Hell, even Lamar Jackson is learning how to throw from the pocket. NFL starting QBs are too valuable and paid too much to be true dual threat. What the best QBs in the NFL do is move around in the pocket, extend plays and, when necessary, pick up a few yards with their legs. Even Murray isn't running as often as he did in college. They just invested millions of bucks and the first overall pick on the guy, they are not going to have him get hurt running an option play.

What I'd like to see UK have is something similar. A true, throwing QB who is mobile enough to extend plays and make a few plays with his legs. If you run your QB too much, you end up with a second or third string QB playing. The object is to keep your 1st string QB healthy for a whole season, not pile up rushing yards and take hits. I actually believe Gilmore seems to be that sort of QB: a 'throw first, run when necessary' type of player. While it's true having a guy who can scamper and make the defense spy on him is a huge weapon, it doesn't help one bit if your starter is too banged up to play. Plus, how many truly dual threat guys are there? I mean, OU and OSU have guys who are good passers and good runners but there aren't very many others out there. The Kentuckys of the world end up with a QB who is a great athlete but is not a consistent passer or a pretty good passer who's a step too slow to really be a true dual threat. I think a QB who makes a lot more plays with his arm than his legs (think Trevor Lawrence and Tua) is a guy who can play all 12 games and be a consistent weapon.

 

[WildCard]

I don't think he really cares. He wants to run it about 60% of the time and it that is effectively happening either QB "type" will work.

Peace

 

[scUKfan22]

I think people underestimate how much having terry or even Stephen Johnson when healthy helped out the offense numbers wise in the run game. It not only slows down the pass rush but also gives you an extra man that has to be accounted for in the run game. That’s why our offense stalled at times when terry was making poor reads in read option.

 

[Johnfarrel]

You mean like Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Stafford, Rivers and Wilson? Hell, even Lamar Jackson is learning how to throw from the pocket. NFL starting QBs are too valuable and paid too much to be true dual threat. What the best QBs in the NFL do is move around in the pocket, extend plays and, when necessary, pick up a few yards with their legs. Even Murray isn't running as often as he did in college. They just invested millions of bucks and the first overall pick on the guy, they are not going to have him get hurt running an option play.

What I'd like to see UK have is something similar. A true, throwing QB who is mobile enough to extend plays and make a few plays with his legs. If you run your QB too much, you end up with a second or third string QB playing. The object is to keep your 1st string QB healthy for a whole season, not pile up rushing yards and take hits. I actually believe Gilmore seems to be that sort of QB: a 'throw first, run when necessary' type of player. While it's true having a guy who can scamper and make the defense spy on him is a huge weapon, it doesn't help one bit if your starter is too banged up to play. Plus, how many truly dual threat guys are there? I mean, OU and OSU have guys who are good passers and good runners but there aren't very many others out there. The Kentuckys of the world end up with a QB who is a great athlete but is not a consistent passer or a pretty good passer who's a step too slow to really be a true dual threat. I think a QB who makes a lot more plays with his arm than his legs (think Trevor Lawrence and Tua) is a guy who can play all 12 games and be a consistent weapon.

RGIII tried to be a running QB in the pros and did not last long. We really old guys remember Fran Tarkenton who was a scrambler but pro linemen weren't as big and agile as they are now.

 

[dallasg23]

You mean like Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Stafford, Rivers and Wilson? Hell, even Lamar Jackson is learning how to throw from the pocket. NFL starting QBs are too valuable and paid too much to be true dual threat. What the best QBs in the NFL do is move around in the pocket, extend plays and, when necessary, pick up a few yards with their legs. Even Murray isn't running as often as he did in college. They just invested millions of bucks and the first overall pick on the guy, they are not going to have him get hurt running an option play.

What I'd like to see UK have is something similar. A true, throwing QB who is mobile enough to extend plays and make a few plays with his legs. If you run your QB too much, you end up with a second or third string QB playing. The object is to keep your 1st string QB healthy for a whole season, not pile up rushing yards and take hits. I actually believe Gilmore seems to be that sort of QB: a 'throw first, run when necessary' type of player. While it's true having a guy who can scamper and make the defense spy on him is a huge weapon, it doesn't help one bit if your starter is too banged up to play. Plus, how many truly dual threat guys are there? I mean, OU and OSU have guys who are good passers and good runners but there aren't very many others out there. The Kentuckys of the world end up with a QB who is a great athlete but is not a consistent passer or a pretty good passer who's a step too slow to really be a true dual threat. I think a QB who makes a lot more plays with his arm than his legs (think Trevor Lawrence and Tua) is a guy who can play all 12 games and be a consistent weapon.

Jackson, Wilson, Prescott, Mariota, Wentz, Haskins, Newton, Watson, Winston (he’s gotten slower since college) Mayfield, Murray, all of them are young athletic guys. All of which came from duel threat offenses in college. The days of the pure drop back passer are dying. They might not be running off design runs like their college days but make not mistake they are all duel threat guys. You named literally every old ass white dude in the league and they are going to be the last of their kind. The NFL now sees that they can take an athletic QB from the NCAA that is a decent passer and polish them into good long term franchise Quarterbacks and use their running ability to sustain an offense when need be. The days of guys like Brady coming in and running a 6 sec forty time are over and aren’t coming back.

 

[KentuckyTexan]

You mean like Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Stafford, Rivers and Wilson? Hell, even Lamar Jackson is learning how to throw from the pocket. NFL starting QBs are too valuable and paid too much to be true dual threat. What the best QBs in the NFL do is move around in the pocket, extend plays and, when necessary, pick up a few yards with their legs. Even Murray isn't running as often as he did in college. They just invested millions of bucks and the first overall pick on the guy, they are not going to have him get hurt running an option play.

What I'd like to see UK have is something similar. A true, throwing QB who is mobile enough to extend plays and make a few plays with his legs. If you run your QB too much, you end up with a second or third string QB playing. The object is to keep your 1st string QB healthy for a whole season, not pile up rushing yards and take hits. I actually believe Gilmore seems to be that sort of QB: a 'throw first, run when necessary' type of player. While it's true having a guy who can scamper and make the defense spy on him is a huge weapon, it doesn't help one bit if your starter is too banged up to play. Plus, how many truly dual threat guys are there? I mean, OU and OSU have guys who are good passers and good runners but there aren't very many others out there. The Kentuckys of the world end up with a QB who is a great athlete but is not a consistent passer or a pretty good passer who's a step too slow to really be a true dual threat. I think a QB who makes a lot more plays with his arm than his legs (think Trevor Lawrence and Tua) is a guy who can play all 12 games and be a consistent weapon.

I would like to add this that Mahomes, Rodgers, and Wilson all have wheels. The difference here is that they are quarterbacks that CAN run... Guys like Johnny Football and Terrell Pryor are RUNNING quarterbacks. Wilson, Rodgers, and Mahomes have the ability to beat you with their arm. But can turn on the jets and make plays with their feet when needed. They would rather sit in the pocket.

QBs that CAN run are the guys that we should be recruiting and developing. I'm not sure if Beau Allen has that ability. That's why I was really liking Scalzo.

 

[KentuckyTexan]

RGIII tried to be a running QB in the pros and did not last long. We really old guys remember Fran Tarkenton who was a scrambler but pro linemen weren't as big and agile as they are now.

I put more blame on Shanahan for refusing to stop running RGIII around. Griffin had told the media and even the coaches that he wanted to be more of a drop back passer. Heck, even Snyder told Shanahan to quit doing it. The improvements that he made between his sophomore and junior year (heisman year) sitting in the pocket were substantial. The Redskins should have continued developing that further instead of forcing him to run.

 

[Emarc]

Dual threat. We cant make a pocket

 

[willievic]

As most of you can see, all of us have different opinions. The first two posters on the Thread had different opinions. As I stated in the Thread, I prefer a dual threat QB. He just needs to throw the 10 yard pass pretty accurate, and the occasional long ball, but he has to have the speed and agility to get away from the rush. Under Coach Stoops, our O Line does not do a good job protecting the passer, since they are geared more to the run. If the QB can't use his legs, he is going to get hurt. Saturday showed that!
So, if you were a good Pocket Passer and you attended one of our games, would you come to UK?

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[Blueaz]

I get all that is going being posted. We still can’t pick and choose our top recruits. We HAVE to develop. Which is NOT happening
Our two best were transfers.

 

[sam_o]

A guy who runs a 4.6 with a laser arm is the pipe dream.

Realistically at UK, either a guy who runs 4.6 with a decent arm or a guy who can’t run much at all with a laser.

Getting a guy with both at UK is just not gonna happen.

 

[yoshukai]

Most times I would want a Pro-style , passing quarterback. But I don't think Eddie Gran has a clue how to use one . So I'm gonna say a dual threat, that's built like a tank, cause the SEC is like the NFL . Running quarterbacks take a beating and get hurt .

 

[Deli owl]

Duel threats have a much higher risk of injury. just sayin

 

[Short-Dawg-69]

Personally I am okay with either as long as we can develop them better.
Not knocking SJ or TW but I think the development of our QB's from top to bottom could be better.
The one think that stands out with SJ and TW is the will to win.

 

[BlueTick2]

You mean like Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Rogers, Stafford, Rivers and Wilson? Hell, even Lamar Jackson is learning how to throw from the pocket. NFL starting QBs are too valuable and paid too much to be true dual threat. What the best QBs in the NFL do is move around in the pocket, extend plays and, when necessary, pick up a few yards with their legs. Even Murray isn't running as often as he did in college. They just invested millions of bucks and the first overall pick on the guy, they are not going to have him get hurt running an option play.

What I'd like to see UK have is something similar. A true, throwing QB who is mobile enough to extend plays and make a few plays with his legs. If you run your QB too much, you end up with a second or third string QB playing. The object is to keep your 1st string QB healthy for a whole season, not pile up rushing yards and take hits. I actually believe Gilmore seems to be that sort of QB: a 'throw first, run when necessary' type of player. While it's true having a guy who can scamper and make the defense spy on him is a huge weapon, it doesn't help one bit if your starter is too banged up to play. Plus, how many truly dual threat guys are there? I mean, OU and OSU have guys who are good passers and good runners but there aren't very many others out there. The Kentuckys of the world end up with a QB who is a great athlete but is not a consistent passer or a pretty good passer who's a step too slow to really be a true dual threat. I think a QB who makes a lot more plays with his arm than his legs (think Trevor Lawrence and Tua) is a guy who can play all 12 games and be a consistent weapon.

Outstanding post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gamecockcat]

Jackson, Wilson, Prescott, Mariota, Wentz, Haskins, Newton, Watson, Winston (he’s gotten slower since college) Mayfield, Murray, all of them are young athletic guys. All of which came from duel threat offenses in college. The days of the pure drop back passer are dying. They might not be running off design runs like their college days but make not mistake they are all duel threat guys. You named literally every old ass white dude in the league and they are going to be the last of their kind. The NFL now sees that they can take an athletic QB from the NCAA that is a decent passer and polish them into good long term franchise Quarterbacks and use their running ability to sustain an offense when need be. The days of guys like Brady coming in and running a 6 sec forty time are over and aren’t coming back.

First, neither Mahomes nor Wilson is an 'old ass white guy'.
Second, what is the first thing the NFL does with DT QBs? Teach them how to play from the pocket. As I said further in my post, the NFL is looking for guys who are athletic enough to move around and make a play here or there with their legs. But, make no mistake, they REQUIRE a QB to be able to function in the pocket and sling the ball.
Third, maybe our definitions of a dual threat QB are different. Mine is the QB is a legit ballcarrier on designed runs/option plays, not just a scrambler or a 'once in a blue moon' keeper. How many designed runs does Wilson take per game? Mahomes? Mayfield? Very, very few because their team can't afford for them to take a big hit. Look at Cam Newton. He's run less and less the past few years, mainly due to the number of hits he's taken. Now that he is more of a pocket passer (due to injuries), he's not nearly as effective. You think the Texans are gonna call a lot of QB runs the number of times Watson has been hit in his career? Just because he's athletic and can run (and does, when absolutely necessary), it doesn't make him a 'dual threat' if the plays are not designed for him to run. The NFL is built for QBs who can operate from the pocket. Extra athleticism that allows the QB a bit more time find WRs or pick up a first down here or there is gravy. It's not by design.