First of all I wish the best for all 7 of our guys turning pro. However IMO there are some misguided choices being made. Let's take the Twins first. I wonder if they have thought this thru enough. They are making choices as a group and not as individuals and to me that's not in their best interest. Looking at their draft status it seems to me only one should of entered the draft this season. Andrew I believe will get drafted in the first round or early second and will make a squad . Aaron should of returned and solidified his shooting and become more of a consistent threat. Think about it, they won't play on same team unless of course Aaron goes undrafted. Then the team that picks up Andrew may offer Aaron but unlikely. Dakari electing to go mostly because he doesn't like school is the wrong decision. Most are saying he is a second round pick. I see that as trouble for him. The coach's really got on him hard the last off season to change his body and made him work very hard. I really wonder about him being a self motivator and wonder if he will work as hard as he needs to. He became a good free throw shooter and developed a pretty good clise to the basket game. One more year of the same improvement and hocus pocus he's in the lottery. As far as the rest of the guys there is no way to blame them for going. It all really boils down to how hard are you willing to work on your own. Doron Lamb is a classic case of got a little money and he's suddenly satisfied. Daniel Orton was the same. Patrick Patterson is the opposite of those guys. He got into the pro's and has worked wonders changing himself. In short I think Dakari and Aaron should of returned? Time will tell and I hope they become extremely successful.
What should of happened ?
- Thread starter Trubluepopeye
- Start date
Would you tell your own son to turn down millions at a chance at the NBA. If it doesn't work out they can always come back and get a degree. They got to strike while the iron is hot. They can't always have a lottery ticket. They could get hurt, and why not develop in the NBA and it's rules. CBB is not the same as the NBA. If they have the talent and skill they will make it regardless. If not they made some money and can come back and finish their degree. It's selfish to ask for these kids to come back for our want of championships
I'm just going to be blunt...I do not think Aaron Harrison or DJ would have improved their stock one bit coming back. So for that reason, looking at it in their best interests, I have no issue with them leaving.
Booker and Lyles are the two who could have really blew up on draft boards with another year...but both will probably be top 20 picks so who I am to judge them for taking the money a year early. The 2nd contract is where all the money is anyways in the NBA.
Booker and Lyles are the two who could have really blew up on draft boards with another year...but both will probably be top 20 picks so who I am to judge them for taking the money a year early. The 2nd contract is where all the money is anyways in the NBA.
After the tourney run he had in 2014, I think Aaron may have actually hurt his stock somewhat by coming back. It's not just the risk of injury but it's also the risk of not having as great an upcoming year as well. What if the shooting doesn't get solidified next year either? What if he's outplayed by the guards coming in? Dakari? You think Dakari is going to improve his stock with Skal and potentially Maker and/or Zimmerman coming in?! He'd be in the EXACT same position next year that he's in right now. These kids have thought this through, the fans haven't.
Would I tell my own son to turn down millions? No, but unfortunately not all of these guys will make millions, at least not next year. Only a few of them will sign contracts worth millions and the rest wont even have a guarenteed contract waiting on them. Meaning they will have to make a team and probably sign a low money contract, compared to 1st round money, unless they really impress the team. Its not about telling them to turn down the money or to not chase their dreams, it should be about making a smart business decision and a lot of times the better business decision is to return and improve your stock and rake in the following year. A lot of times these late 1st round picks are drafted by really good teams who have great players in front of them and won't even be given a chance to play for that team. They spend their 1st few years in the D-league playing in front of a few thousand fans each night (if that many) because the team that drafted them doesn't need them or just drafted them as a trade piece to have in their pocket for the future.
So, there is a lot of reason to say that a player should return and its not just because we are being selfish wanting a championship. Each case is different with each player should have smart people giving them advice. I kinda wish Cal would talk to them more about this strategy and even try to convince them to return if he feels it would be the best business decision. Maybe he does, I don't know but he doesn't say he does publicly so that's why I say that.
So, when I say that I think a player should return, I'm not being selfish at all. I'm thinking about a business decision and sometimes the best decision is to cash in later for more. Yet if you dare say that around here people get their panties in a wad and start bashing you saying...."they don't owe you anything", "stop trying to hold them back", "you can't expect them to turn down millions" and blah blah blah. But whatever, there are tons of idiots on here which has become abundently clear this week. Not talking about you, just in general. I think most of our players made the smart decision but I think a couple could've really helped their wallets and their careers by coming back. Also, people have a tendency to think about the quick money and just getting to the league, I would be more concerned with staying in the league and getting well prepared for longevity before I entered the draft. That's another conversation though. Good day!
What if Aaron doesn't solidify his shooting at plays about the same? He's then wasted a year, made scouts pick him apart more and he is a year older. Andrew and Aaron, the way I look at, isn't making a mistake either way. I'm not hearing anything different about the twins than I did last year. So what good did coming back do for them this year? As far as Dakari goes, he could play at UK for 5 more years and never be a lottery pick. He needs to go if he can get in the first round and I think he will.
I didn't say that Aaron and Andrew would benefit from coming back. I don't think they would benefit from returning. Even if I did though, there are always some risk to returning but does the reward for returning out weigh the risk? We are talking millions from lottery to the 2nd round. I wasn't talking about any specific recruit this year in my post above, I was just making a point that its not always the best business decision to leave if you're not a lottery pick. Sometimes it is even if your a 2nd round selection though and its just about maximizing your stock to reach the highest pick in the draft before you decide to enter. Also, its about being preparing yourself for a career and not just doing well enough to get drafted.
They all did the right thing. The 4 top 20 picks for sure. The other 3 are not great athletes and would only continue to be exposed. Twins shoot mid 30% from inside the line. Not to many points & 2 guards make the NBA with those numbers. Plus they don't rebound or snag 50\50 balls.
Twins: they are who they are and everyone knows it. Another year would be successful in terms of college record, but wouldn't help their draft stock any. Also, they'd be recruited over. They're B+ players that were hyped to be A+. No, this isn't bashing them, they're EPIC in college. But to go now is probably their best decision.
Towns: Duh
WCS: Duh
Lyles: would be amazing in college next year, but if he goes top 15, duh
Booker: him and Ulis on and off the court would be a once in a lifetime experience, plus his draft stock would likely rise or stay the same. I think he had legit reasons to pass up the money and stay another year. But when millions are calling, I don't fault him for taking it. Best friends are great, millions of dollars are great too.
Dakari: He is who he is. Maybe someone thinks they can smooth out the flaws and make him consistent. Another year behind Skal and Zimmerman would only serve to hurt his stock.
In summary, they all should have gone.
Towns: Duh
WCS: Duh
Lyles: would be amazing in college next year, but if he goes top 15, duh
Booker: him and Ulis on and off the court would be a once in a lifetime experience, plus his draft stock would likely rise or stay the same. I think he had legit reasons to pass up the money and stay another year. But when millions are calling, I don't fault him for taking it. Best friends are great, millions of dollars are great too.
Dakari: He is who he is. Maybe someone thinks they can smooth out the flaws and make him consistent. Another year behind Skal and Zimmerman would only serve to hurt his stock.
In summary, they all should have gone.
"Doron Lamb is a classic case of got a little money and he's suddenly satisfied. Daniel Orton was the same."
How much did they make while in the NBA? How much are they making now playing where ever? There is a window of opportunity for these kids. Some it can be several years, others it may be short. Take it while they can! My college degree took me 20 years to make my first million.
How much did they make while in the NBA? How much are they making now playing where ever? There is a window of opportunity for these kids. Some it can be several years, others it may be short. Take it while they can! My college degree took me 20 years to make my first million.
Happy for all seven of those players at achieving their dream of going to the NBA. As a teacher, that is one of my primary roles...getting students prepared to be successful when they leave high school, whatever their professional pursuit. Calipari is in a unique situation to do just that and I admire him for his vision and steadfast resolve to make UK a place that prepares young men for the next level. Instead of demeaning this, fans and pundits should be exalting this because of the way this is being played out each year. These guys come to UK to get ready for the. NBA and to fulfill their dreams. I want that for my students. Shouldn't it also be true for these players?
This post was edited on 4/10 8:51 AM by Jazzycat
This post was edited on 4/10 8:51 AM by Jazzycat
Well, in the case of at least 3 of them, their iron hasn't been hot and may not even be lukewarm at this point. But they're going anyway because, well, I guess they think they will be a hit.
Only two of these players will be going in the lottery. Of the next two, one might slip in there, but the other is late 1st round.
And then most of the people on here I've seen mention anything about these kids coming back either will say "I know it's selfish, but I'd love to see them back", or "I think so-and-so is making a bad choice and needs to return".
In that first example, the fan is admitting that wanting them back is selfish. I don't see what's wrong with that.
In the second example, that's just a case of a fan that's grown fond of the kids to the point that they take a parental view when talking about these decisions they're about to make. I don't get that they're saying that the kid should come back out of any selfish fan reasons. I believe they genuinely care about the kid's well being and they want him to succeed in the NBA, but are simply expressing their concern that the choice being made is too early and may end up a shattered dream with nowhere to go but back to school and no basketball.
So to call out people that are being honestly concerned with the risk the kid is taking as being "selfish" is most definitely not a fair statement. Are there selfish ones here? Sure, but what I see most are these types of mother/father advice givers who seem to have almost a vested interest in seeing these kids succeed.
By staying another year, Cauley-Stein moved from a mid to late round pick to possibly a top 5 pick. That extra year in college will translate into several millions of dollars over the life of his first NBA contract. Here is a link to the NBA Rookie Salary Scale. Players like Lyles and Booker could have come back and possibly played themselves into much higher picks with big years. By coming out early they may have cost themselves millions.
Personally I think the Harrisons and Johnson have certainly made huge mistakes by coming out. Of the group, Andrew is the only one that has any potential to be drafted in the first round. Another year (or two) in college would have allowed them time to continue to develop their game. Especially Johnson would should have seen a lot more playing time.
Personally I think the Harrisons and Johnson have certainly made huge mistakes by coming out. Of the group, Andrew is the only one that has any potential to be drafted in the first round. Another year (or two) in college would have allowed them time to continue to develop their game. Especially Johnson would should have seen a lot more playing time.
It's funny that people ignore the many examples of draft stock improvement from even some of our own players, yet will argue until they are blue in the face that kids sticking around "are what they are and probably won't improve", labeling it as a supreme risk where injury, "being exposed", and other speculative disasters loom large that will most definitely ruin their draft position next year.
Kudos to you for using an example that is actually probably more common amongst those with decent potential than those that go the opposite way - return and have no improvement (or even sink).
I'm still utterly baffled at the number of UK fans that have no clue how the NBA evaluates talent for the draft. On top of talent/skill-set/potential, they also look at age (and many other factors). Here's why age is important.
Say Andrew comes back next year, goes to the combine and his PG skill-set grades out to an 85/100. Keep in mind he would be 21 years old. Now Player X, also a PG but a freshman who is 19, goes to said combine and grades out at 80/100. The NBA won't just say "Andrew is 85 and Player X is 80, so we are taking Andrew." They will look at the two and ask "Do we think Player X will improve his skill-set to 85 or above in two years with us working with him (where he will get to Andrew's age of 21)?" NBA players have a shelf-life and that extra two years in shelf-life that freshman would have is a big deal. This is the piece so many seem to miss on here and also why so many jump to the NBA even if they don't seem ready (DJ and the Twins are a big example).
An extra year of college, even if you improve your game, guarantees nothing when it comes to improving your draft stock. One Montrezl Harrell from UL will soon realize that. I love the BBN but really wish some of you could simply be happy that these kids are chasing their dreams and doing exactly what they came to UK to do.... get a chance to play professional basketball.
Best of luck to all 7 of these guys and I hope you all make it in the NBA. I'll be cheering for you.
Go Big Blue
Say Andrew comes back next year, goes to the combine and his PG skill-set grades out to an 85/100. Keep in mind he would be 21 years old. Now Player X, also a PG but a freshman who is 19, goes to said combine and grades out at 80/100. The NBA won't just say "Andrew is 85 and Player X is 80, so we are taking Andrew." They will look at the two and ask "Do we think Player X will improve his skill-set to 85 or above in two years with us working with him (where he will get to Andrew's age of 21)?" NBA players have a shelf-life and that extra two years in shelf-life that freshman would have is a big deal. This is the piece so many seem to miss on here and also why so many jump to the NBA even if they don't seem ready (DJ and the Twins are a big example).
An extra year of college, even if you improve your game, guarantees nothing when it comes to improving your draft stock. One Montrezl Harrell from UL will soon realize that. I love the BBN but really wish some of you could simply be happy that these kids are chasing their dreams and doing exactly what they came to UK to do.... get a chance to play professional basketball.
Best of luck to all 7 of these guys and I hope you all make it in the NBA. I'll be cheering for you.
Go Big Blue
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