The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[SDC888]

This sounds fantastic and that whoever this is actually put thought into it. But is anybody in power on either side going to wanna stop sending the commoners into the meat grinder?

No; it's in their DNA. They (Ukrainians and Russians) are going to just keep throwing men at the "problem" to die.

What he posted is exactly how I was telling this thread how the war could/should be prevented two years ago, but it would've been even better for Ukraine since they could've kept everything except Crimea. They just would';ve had to respect Russian rights in the southeast and allowed them some autonomy.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Mises Caucus is a paleolibertarianism party. You know they're typically shit on, in libertarian circles for being republicans in masks, right?

If you’re anti Mises caucus, then are we to assume your views line up with those of the guy the LP put up as their candidate, who supports transing children, Covid tyranny and no borders?

And if you support open borders, why are you dead set on protecting Ukraine’s?

Edit: also, as terrible as chase Oliver’s views are on some topics, I think even he supports ending the war in Ukraine. RunninRichie May be the only “Libertarian” on the planet who thinks this war should continue to be funded by the US.

 

[RunninRichie]

If you’re anti Mises caucus, then are we to assume your views line up with those of the guy the LP put up as their candidate, who supports transing children, Covid tyranny and no borders?

And if you support open borders, why are you dead set on protecting Ukraine’s?

Edit: also, as terrible as chase Oliver’s views are on some topics, I think even he supports ending the war in Ukraine. RunninRichie May be the only “Libertarian” on the planet who thinks this war should continue to be funded by the US.

This just shows how stupid you are, regarding libertarianism. You think it’s either MC or Chase Oliver? Oh boy.


Chase Oliver is a progressive in a libertarian t-shirt. Not every Libertarian supports open borders. And why the hell would I support Russia invading Ukraine, even if I did support open borders? You think open borders means you can kill, rape, and brutalize others?

 

[Bill Cosby]

This just shows how stupid you are, regarding libertarianism. You think it’s either MC or Chase Oliver? Oh boy.


Chase Oliver is a progressive in a libertarian t-shirt. Not every Libertarian supports open borders. And why the hell would I support Russia invading Ukraine, even if I did support open borders? You think open borders means you can kill, rape, and brutalize others?

lol

I don’t care what you identify as, but I do find this amusing. You’ve called yourself a capital L Libertarian, while your views don’t line up with anyone else in the party, or relate to anything anyone would call libertarian.

Just register as an independent like me, then you don’t have to try and use a political party in an attempt to lend strength your views, you can rely on logic and reason.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Why Won't the US Help Negotiate a Peaceful End to the War in Ukraine? - Antiwar.com

Reprinted from CommonDreams. For the fifth time since 2008, Russia has proposed to negotiate with the U.S. over security arrangements, this time in - Jeffrey D. Sachs for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com

 

[SDC888]

Why Won't the US Help Negotiate a Peaceful End to the War in Ukraine? - Antiwar.com

Reprinted from CommonDreams. For the fifth time since 2008, Russia has proposed to negotiate with the U.S. over security arrangements, this time in - Jeffrey D. Sachs for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com

💯

The neocon approach to Russia, delusional and hubristic from the start, lies in ruins. NATO will never enlarge to Ukraine and Georgia. Russia will not be toppled by a CIA covert operation. Ukraine is being horribly bloodied on the battlefield, often losing 1,000 or more dead and wounded in a single day. The failed neocon game plan brings us closer to nuclear Armageddon.


Yet Biden still refuses to negotiate. Following Putin’s speech, the U.S., NATO, and Ukraine firmly rejected negotiations once again. Biden and his team have still not relinquished the neocon fantasy of defeating Russia and expanding NATO to Ukraine.


The Ukrainian people have been lied to time and again by Zelensky and Biden and other leaders of NATO countries, who told them falsely and repeatedly that Ukraine would prevail on the battlefield and that there were no options to negotiate. Ukraine is now under martial law. The public is given no say about its own slaughter.


For the sake of Ukraine’s very survival, and to avoid nuclear war, the President of the United States has one overriding responsibility today: Negotiate.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Mises Caucus is a paleolibertarianism party. You know they're typically shit on, in libertarian circles for being republicans in masks, right?

Ah yes. Lolol I knew that one was coming. Weird how this keeps working with you isn't it? "Nah that's not real because that actually Russian propaganda, no that's not real bc that's actually republican." Lololololol always finger pointing. There's always an excuse and blame. Again perfect execution and planning and anything off this is bc its bad actors. Lolololololololol

Dave smith doesn't support trump. Mises Caucus is Ron Paul libertarianism.

But im glad you support left wing talking points
..thats mainly who calls them right wing plants...bc it mainly deals on culture war issues. Or the insane libertarians like vermin supreme who believe stop signs shouldn't exist....anything else is is too far right.

Lololololololol. Zelensky could say the sky is red tomorrow and you'd claim God has fell for Russian propaganda turning it blue.

Or let me guess, you're now going off the SPLC...who calls everything outside of progressivism, right wing. Lololololol...those ol nitpicked sources when your dogma gets challenged

https://cis.org/Kammer/Note-Media-Matters-Journalists-Exposing-SPLC-Hypocrisy-Are-Liberals-Me-Too

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/28/morris-dees-splc-trump-southern-poverty-law-center-215312/

Two noted "right wing" sources there on splc, who calls mises, racist and republican

 

[vhcat70]

Why Won't the US Help Negotiate a Peaceful End to the War in Ukraine? — Jeffrey D. Sachs

For goodness' sake, negotiate! For the fifth time since 2008, Russia has proposed to negotiate with the U.S. over security arrangements, this time in proposals made by President Vladimir Putin on June 14, 2024. Four previous times, the U.S. rejected the offer of negotiations

www.jeffsachs.org

 

[Caveman Catfan]

💯

The neocon approach to Russia, delusional and hubristic from the start, lies in ruins. NATO will never enlarge to Ukraine and Georgia. Russia will not be toppled by a CIA covert operation. Ukraine is being horribly bloodied on the battlefield, often losing 1,000 or more dead and wounded in a single day. The failed neocon game plan brings us closer to nuclear Armageddon.


Yet Biden still refuses to negotiate. Following Putin’s speech, the U.S., NATO, and Ukraine firmly rejected negotiations once again. Biden and his team have still not relinquished the neocon fantasy of defeating Russia and expanding NATO to Ukraine.


The Ukrainian people have been lied to time and again by Zelensky and Biden and other leaders of NATO countries, who told them falsely and repeatedly that Ukraine would prevail on the battlefield and that there were no options to negotiate. Ukraine is now under martial law. The public is given no say about its own slaughter.


For the sake of Ukraine’s very survival, and to avoid nuclear war, the President of the United States has one overriding responsibility today: Negotiate.

Biden is not making these decisions. Who is?

 

[RunninRichie]

Ah yes. Lolol I knew that one was coming. Weird how this keeps working with you isn't it? "Nah that's not real because that actually Russian propaganda, no that's not real bc that's actually republican." Lololololol always finger pointing. There's always an excuse and blame. Again perfect execution and planning and anything off this is bc its bad actors. Lolololololololol

Dave smith doesn't support trump. Mises Caucus is Ron Paul libertarianism.

But im glad you support left wing talking points
..thats mainly who calls them right wing plants...bc it mainly deals on culture war issues. Or the insane libertarians like vermin supreme who believe stop signs shouldn't exist....anything else is is too far right.

Lololololololol. Zelensky could say the sky is red tomorrow and you'd claim God has fell for Russian propaganda turning it blue.

Or let me guess, you're now going off the SPLC...who calls everything outside of progressivism, right wing. Lololololol...those ol nitpicked sources when your dogma gets challenged

https://cis.org/Kammer/Note-Media-Matters-Journalists-Exposing-SPLC-Hypocrisy-Are-Liberals-Me-Too

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/28/morris-dees-splc-trump-southern-poverty-law-center-215312/

Two noted "right wing" sources there on splc, who calls mises, racist and republican

Populist authoritarian babble. Not surprising. Don't forget to donate to stop the steal, the 2024 campaign, and check out the new MAGA giftshop.

 

[RunninRichie]

lol

I don’t care what you identify as, but I do find this amusing. You’ve called yourself a capital L Libertarian, while your views don’t line up with anyone else in the party, or relate to anything anyone would call libertarian.

Just register as an independent like me, then you don’t have to try and use a political party in an attempt to lend strength your views, you can rely on logic and reason.

You know there's a wide range of libertarians right? left-libetarians, right-libertarians, civil libertarians, libertarian conservatives, minarchists, classic liberals etc etc. Probably not.

 

[hmt5000]

Mises Caucus is a paleolibertarianism party. You know they're typically shit on, in libertarian circles for being republicans in masks, right?

That's why they won the chair 2 cycles in a row.

 

[hmt5000]

"The prevailing press narrative is that nearly all Republicans are isolationists who want to withdraw from the world and leave a beleaguered Ukraine to fend for itself. Yet candidates running hard against U.S. support for Ukraine are getting thumped in GOP primaries."

"A recent poll from the Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute showed 75% of Americans think a Ukrainian victory is important to the U.S."

I wonder if the anti-Ukraine support clique here; i.e., isolationists, knows who this Reagan person was.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-primaries-congress-ukraine-aid-donald-trump-f2c118cf?mod=opinion_lead_pos4

You might want to look more into that poll. 50% of pubs think we are doing too much in Ukraine. Only 14% think we should do more.

 

[hmt5000]

Unreal how you believe this. When has isolationism worked?

A. When was the last time we tried it?
B. We aren't arguing for isolationism. We just don't need to be in everyone's business. I'm willing to hire you to wash my windshield while I'm at the redlight but I don't want to get involved with your domestic problems with your wife and her boyfriend.

 

[hmt5000]

VD Hanson on how the war can/should/will end:

"...formalization of the 2014 Russian absorption of Crimea and Donbass.

Russia would then agree to withdraw all its forces to its pre-2022 borders. Ukraine would be fully armed but without NATO membership.

Both sides would agree to a demilitarized zone on both sides of the Russian-Ukrainian border. Russia would brag that it prevented its former province from joining NATO while finally institutionalizing its prior incorporation of the Donbass and Crimea.

Ukraine would be proud that, like heroic 1940 Finland, it miraculously stopped Russian aggression. It would remain far better armed than at any time in its history and soon enjoy a status similar to that of non-NATO Austria or Switzerland."

And that is basically what was offered to Ukr in Turkey.

 

[hmt5000]

lol

I don’t care what you identify as, but I do find this amusing. You’ve called yourself a capital L Libertarian, while your views don’t line up with anyone else in the party, or relate to anything anyone would call libertarian.

Just register as an independent like me, then you don’t have to try and use a political party in an attempt to lend strength your views, you can rely on logic and reason.

I think he read a description of Libertarianism once and thought it sounded cool. So that's what he calls himself. I don't think he's actually read any books on philosophy or economics and just kind of wings it depending on how he feels.

 

[hmt5000]

Populist authoritarian babble. Not surprising. Don't forget to donate to stop the steal, the 2024 campaign, and check out the new MAGA giftshop.

I bet you support illegal immigrants voting in US elections. I bet you support free cell phones and legal services for illegals. I bet you don't care when illegals kill and rape Americans.

 

[RunninRichie]

I bet you support illegal immigrants voting in US elections. I bet you support free cell phones and legal services for illegals. I bet you don't care when illegals kill and rape Americans.

I bet you're a mouthbreather. You are again, the same guy who thought the 10 commandments wasn't against the 1stA. Because the country was settled on ''judeo-christian values'' (recent buzzword used by christians to mean traditional morals).

 

[RunninRichie]

A. When was the last time we tried it?
B. We aren't arguing for isolationism. We just don't need to be in everyone's business. I'm willing to hire you to wash my windshield while I'm at the redlight but I don't want to get involved with your domestic problems with your wife and her boyfriend.

1939. Can't take your 2nd point serious. You're simping for a guy who stopped documenting drone strikes. And went absolute ham. Killed an Iranian general, etc etc.

 

[RunninRichie]

And that is basically what was offered to Ukr in Turkey.

False

 

[Bill Cosby]

You know there's a wide range of libertarians right? left-libetarians, right-libertarians, civil libertarians, libertarian conservatives, minarchists, classic liberals etc etc. Probably not.

Do any of those groups support NATO expansion and continued US meddling in foreign countries?

If you think your views generally align with libertarians, you should do more reading into why they’re all against this war. Not that you need a party to set your views, but you’re an outlier in this case. And saying NATO expansion and a prolonged war in Ukraine lines up with Libertarian principles it’s stupid.

In this case, you’re fully in line with the two major political parties, corporate news media, etc. It may not be all the libertarians who are falling for propaganda.

 

[RunninRichie]

Do any of those groups support NATO expansion and continued US meddling in foreign countries?

If you think your views generally align with libertarians, you should do more reading into why they’re all against this war. Not that you need a party to set your views, but you’re an outlier in this case. And saying NATO expansion and a prolonged war in Ukraine lines up with Libertarian principles it’s stupid.

In this case, you’re fully in line with the two major political parties, corporate news media, etc. It may not be all the libertarians who are falling for propaganda.

Not every LB is against the war. Kinda hilarious you say this. Most are against taxpayers paying for the aid. But fully support Ukraine's right to defend their homes from russian invasion.





''Expansion'' haha, what an idiot.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Not every LB is against the war. Kinda hilarious you say this. Most are against taxpayers paying for the aid. But fully support Ukraine's right to defend their homes from russian invasion.





''Expansion'' haha, what an idiot.

Against US taxpayers paying for the aid, yet support Ukraines right to defend itself. You’ve now described the position of everyone you’ve been dismissing as Putin supporters.

We’ve already been over your ignorance regarding NATOs expansion and addition of Ukraine.

 

[RunninRichie]

Against US taxpayers paying for the aid, yet support Ukraines right to defend itself. You’ve now described the position of everyone you’ve been dismissing as Putin supporters.

We’ve already been over your ignorance regarding NATOs expansion and addition of Ukraine.

Nah. Guys in this thread have said the US caused the war. As you are right now.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

You might want to look more into that poll. 50% of pubs think we are doing too much in Ukraine. Only 14% think we should do more.

Pretty much the only ones who think we should do more are those in Washington. Unfortunately they get say so in the matter.

 

[vhcat70]

You might want to look more into that poll. 50% of pubs think we are doing too much in Ukraine. Only 14% think we should do more.

So those 24% of Americans think we're doing too much. I couldn't find the source of your claim on the E=xcel sheet. COuld you please tell me the question number? Thx.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I bet you're a mouthbreather. You are again, the same guy who thought the 10 commandments wasn't against the 1stA. Because the country was settled on ''judeo-christian values'' (recent buzzword used by christians to mean traditional morals).

Huh. I thought you fashioned yourself a historian. Not so.

 

[RunninRichie]

Huh. I thought you fashioned yourself a historian. Not so.

What did I say that was wrong? I was just saying the values the country was founded on. Got changed from ''traditional values'' to ''judeo-christian''.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Nah. Guys in this thread have said the US caused the war. As you are right now.

US provocation was certainly a causal factor.

That doesn’t mean anyone here should support continued US involvement or funding. Ukraine is certainly free to fight Russia.

You have the most anti-Libertarian position of anyone in this thread.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Here's John Mearsheimer, distinguished service professor at University of Chicago...an international relations scholar.

I'm sure Richie knows more than him tho. I'm guessing he's dying to call him maga..unfortunately looks like he's a bernie guy, so naturally Richie will have to reach for the other shelf and pull out the ever trusty "putin puppet"

It's wild, I guess, how Putin is able to hypnotize everyone and anyone that questions the hard Line thoughts Richie has

 

[SDC888]

The best articulation of the anti-war reasoning comes from professors Mearsheimer and Sachs, both of whom aren't MAGA. Sachs in particular is pretty damn hardcore anti-Trump.

 

[CastleRubric]

Are we at war with Oceania yet?
Hey. - dont you freaking yahoos WAKE ME until were bombing those Oceananders

Also - Nevermind - later

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Are we at war with Oceania yet?
Hey. - dont you freaking yahoos WAKE ME until were bombing those Oceananders

Also - Nevermind - later

Dont give anyone ideas. Next thing you know there will be hashtags and marches. If they bribed the right politicians, we will go to war for them too.

 

[CastleRubric]

Dont give anyone ideas. Next thing you know there will be hashtags and marches. If they bribed the right politicians, we will go to war for them too.

Remember when Coach Bobby Knight made up an international player - and his comments resulted in the recruiting services listing this non-person?

Ivan Renko maybe?

Your post made me think of that -

 

[warrior-cat]

Not every LB is against the war. Kinda hilarious you say this. Most are against taxpayers paying for the aid. But fully support Ukraine's right to defend their homes from russian invasion.





''Expansion'' haha, what an idiot.

I'd say most republicans feel this way.

 

[warrior-cat]

US provocation was certainly a causal factor.

That doesn’t mean anyone here should support continued US involvement or funding. Ukraine is certainly free to fight Russia.

You have the most anti-Libertarian position of anyone in this thread.

The continued support of Ukraine should be from European countries in close proximity to the area which includes many of them. And by support, I mean money, weapons, and supplies. If also there are those who wish to fight with them it should be volunteers not beholding to the governments there. The regional countries are the ones who should be most concerned and if by some reason Russia attacks them then...all bets are off. We will be obligated and rightfully so to go in to help.

 

[warrior-cat]

Are we at war with Oceania yet?
Hey. - dont you freaking yahoos WAKE ME until were bombing those Oceananders

Also - Nevermind - later

Given the current condition or our military we would be better off teaching our enemies DEI tactics and how they are used to destroy countries.

 

[hmt5000]

It's obvious why the pro war people are focusing on the only win Ukraine has this week.... Because all reports are showing that Rus has made advances everywhere but the far south and far north. So over a front bigger than Texas... Rus is only losing in 2 towns.

 

[RunninRichie]

It's obvious why the pro war people are focusing on the only win Ukraine has this week.... Because all reports are showing that Rus has made advances everywhere but the far south and far north. So over a front bigger than Texas... Rus is only losing in 2 towns.

You honestly believe that

 

[hmt5000]