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The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

UKBrassowTipIN said:
Obama, confirmed MAGA and putin puppet I guess. It's almost like once a talking point is set ppl just believe they should go with it...

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The cat is now out of the bag. Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s admission that the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 peace protocols that sought to solve the problem of the Donbas region in Ukraine was not really meant for what it was supposedly intended to do: to have peace in that Russian-speaking populace. It was actually designed to rearm Ukraine.


That is what Merkel had admitted in an interview with German weekly Die Zeit in what is now evolving as a ruse from the West to build the military capability of Ukraine. We have to admire Merkel for her candid statement about Minsk that has now been pounced upon by those who saw the fakery that attended the supposed peace protocols for Donbas.

...
Now, Merkel confirmed that Nato wanted war from the start but needed time to prepare militarily—an assessment WSWS has long held. Schwarz held the view that “since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the US has pursued the goal of remaining the “sole world power.”


To this end, Washington has waged numerous criminal wars and expanded Nato into Eastern Europe. Now it also wants to integrate Ukraine, Georgia and other former Soviet republics into Nato and subjugate Russia in order to plunder its resources and isolate China.
 
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RunninRichie said:
Putin isn’t negotiating any peace deal without taking land. Ukraine has said they aren’t negotiating if it involved giving up land. Yet, the “pro-life” guys want to cut off aid. And let Ukrainian cities get blown apart by Russian bombs. Truly the kings of morality.
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Morality? If you claim the moral keys to this discussion, you seriously should go fight for Ukraine. You are a pile of contradiction throughout this thread.

Ukraine will give up land if they fight this thing by themselves. I don’t think there exists a dipshit who believes otherwise. Money and munitions wont win this war.
 
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Caveman Catfan said:
Morality? If you claim the moral keys to this discussion, you seriously should go fight for Ukraine. You are a pile of contradiction throughout this thread.

Ukraine will give up land if they fight this thing by themselves. I don’t think there exists a dipshit who believes otherwise. Money and munitions wont win this war.
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Looking forward to you joining the border patrol, patriot.
 
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The only way Ukraine wins this thing is open war between the us and Russia. Surely that wont happen but it be for lack of warhawk effort.

So really we are exactly where i and others months ago said we would be: Ukraine can give up some land willingly and save lives or they can give us some land unwillingly and lose many lives and us billions.
 
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bigblueinsanity said:
The only way Ukraine wins this thing is open war between the us and Russia. Surely that wont happen but it be for lack of warhawk effort.

So really we are exactly where i and others months ago said we would be: Ukraine can give up some land willingly and save lives or they can give us some land unwillingly and lose many lives and us billions.
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Totally false. Shows you haven't been watching the battlefield reports. But just what your political side says.
 
Great American, Mike Johnson:

"The Speaker defended Donald Trump’s record and called on European allies to live up to their defense spending commitments. He noted the security risks of an uncontrolled southern border and the rising national debt, which will require hard spending adjustments.

But most notable was the larger picture Mr. Johnson painted. He didn’t indulge a false choice between meeting problems at home and threats abroad. He is pushing his party in the direction of Ronald Reagan, which is correct for the world moment and politically popular.

America is threatened “by Chinese Communists, by Russian oligarchs, and Islamic terrorists. We can choose to ignore them, we can try to appease them,” the Speaker said. “Or we can choose another course. . . . We can rearm, rebuild, reinvigorate, restore, and reinstate fear in our enemies.” Decline “is always a choice. That is not a choice that Republicans will be making anytime soon.”

Mr. Trump could hardly do better than repeat Mr. Johnson’s message word for word at next week’s GOP convention."

Bravo, Mr. Speaker.

 
Seems like Russia indiscriminately pummeled cities across Ukraine on Monday, including Kyiv. At least 31 more killed and over 150 injured. But, I admittedly don’t have a view of the battlefield to tell whether Ukraine is losing or winning.
 
"Russia’s success in electronic countermeasures—closely watched by China, with whom Moscow is believed to share some of its battlefield lessons in dealing with Western weaponry—poses a strategic problem for the U.S. and allies.

Western military doctrine has long relied on a belief that precision can defeat mass—meaning that well-targeted strikes can cripple a more numerous enemy, reducing the need for massive expenditure on troops, tanks and artillery.

That proposition, however, had not been tested in a major war until Ukraine. The introduction of Western weapons there showed that what may have worked against Saddam Hussein’s army, the Taliban or Islamic State guerrillas won’t necessarily perform against a modern military like Russia’s or China’s.

“We have probably made some bad assumptions because over the last 20 years we were launching precision weapons against people that could not do anything about it,” said retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, a former commander of the U.S. Army in Europe. “Now we are doing it against a peer opponent, and Russia and China do have these capabilities.”

One of the lessons learned in Ukraine is about the continuing importance of old-school unguided artillery shells, the manufacturing of which is only now beginning to pick up in the U.S. and Europe after decades of decline, said Lt. Gen. Esa Pulkkinen, the permanent secretary of Finland’s defense ministry. “They are immune to any type of jamming, and they will go to target regardless of what type of electronic warfare capability there may be,” he said.

William LaPlante, the U.S. under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, acknowledged in recent remarks Russia’s successes in disrupting precision munitions. “The Russians have gotten really, really good,” he said."

 
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vhcat70 said:
Russia’s success in electronic countermeasures—closely watched by China, with whom Moscow is believed to share some of its battlefield lessons in dealing with Western weaponry—poses a strategic problem for the U.S. and allies.

Western military doctrine has long relied on a belief that precision can defeat mass—meaning that well-targeted strikes can cripple a more numerous enemy, reducing the need for massive expenditure on troops, tanks and artillery.

That proposition, however, had not been tested in a major war until Ukraine. The introduction of Western weapons there showed that what may have worked against Saddam Hussein’s army, the Taliban or Islamic State guerrillas won’t necessarily perform against a modern military like Russia’s or China’s.

“We have probably made some bad assumptions because over the last 20 years we were launching precision weapons against people that could not do anything about it,” said retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, a former commander of the U.S. Army in Europe. “Now we are doing it against a peer opponent, and Russia and China do have these capabilities.”

One of the lessons learned in Ukraine is about the continuing importance of old-school unguided artillery shells, the manufacturing of which is only now beginning to pick up in the U.S. and Europe after decades of decline, said Lt. Gen. Esa Pulkkinen, the permanent secretary of Finland’s defense ministry. “They are immune to any type of jamming, and they will go to target regardless of what type of electronic warfare capability there may be,” he said.

William LaPlante, the U.S. under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, acknowledged in recent remarks Russia’s successes in disrupting precision munitions. “The Russians have gotten really, really good,” he said."

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Saw where they're already working on new GPS systems. To bypass Russia's jammers. I believe the current proposal. Is it will detect when it's being jammed (attempted) and hit the jamming equipment.
 
vhcat70 said:
"Russia’s success in electronic countermeasures—closely watched by China, with whom Moscow is believed to share some of its battlefield lessons in dealing with Western weaponry—poses a strategic problem for the U.S. and allies.

Western military doctrine has long relied on a belief that precision can defeat mass—meaning that well-targeted strikes can cripple a more numerous enemy, reducing the need for massive expenditure on troops, tanks and artillery.

That proposition, however, had not been tested in a major war until Ukraine. The introduction of Western weapons there showed that what may have worked against Saddam Hussein’s army, the Taliban or Islamic State guerrillas won’t necessarily perform against a modern military like Russia’s or China’s.

“We have probably made some bad assumptions because over the last 20 years we were launching precision weapons against people that could not do anything about it,” said retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, a former commander of the U.S. Army in Europe. “Now we are doing it against a peer opponent, and Russia and China do have these capabilities.”

One of the lessons learned in Ukraine is about the continuing importance of old-school unguided artillery shells, the manufacturing of which is only now beginning to pick up in the U.S. and Europe after decades of decline, said Lt. Gen. Esa Pulkkinen, the permanent secretary of Finland’s defense ministry. “They are immune to any type of jamming, and they will go to target regardless of what type of electronic warfare capability there may be,” he said.

William LaPlante, the U.S. under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, acknowledged in recent remarks Russia’s successes in disrupting precision munitions. “The Russians have gotten really, really good,” he said."

Click to expand...

Uncomfortable use of a pronoun: “Now we are doing it against a peer opponent, and Russia and China do have these capabilities.”
 


Ukr pulling 60 year old men off the street to go to the front.... But I'm sure that's Russian disinfo.

The thing about Russia's spring offensive that is still ongoing is that it's not just a couple places and lots of defense. They are actively attacking in dozens of places on the line at the same time. When Ukr shifts troops to stop an attack Rus will attack the spot those guys left. The whole point of the Khakiv offensive that was so weird was that Rus had 150k troops on the border but only sent 30 to 50k across for the attack. Ukr sent 3 or 4 brigades from the south to shore up the area and Rus attacked the areas those brigades pulled out from.

It's attritional warfare and some on here don't seem to understand what that is. Ukr is running out of men to fight. Rus still has over 1 million fighters... Not just 800k soldiers like people say Ukr has... You need support troops to supply the actual fighters. Ukr is running out of the men who carry guns and shoot people. THey have plenty of people in uniform who don't go to the front and have way higher than avg net worth.
 
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hmt5000 said:
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Ukr pulling 60 year old men off the street to go to the front.... But I'm sure that's Russian disinfo.

The thing about Russia's spring offensive that is still ongoing is that it's not just a couple places and lots of defense. They are actively attacking in dozens of places on the line at the same time. When Ukr shifts troops to stop an attack Rus will attack the spot those guys left. The whole point of the Khakiv offensive that was so weird was that Rus had 150k troops on the border but only sent 30 to 50k across for the attack. Ukr sent 3 or 4 brigades from the south to shore up the area and Rus attacked the areas those brigades pulled out from.

It's attritional warfare and some on here don't seem to understand what that is. Ukr is running out of men to fight. Rus still has over 1 million fighters... Not just 800k soldiers like people say Ukr has... You need support troops to supply the actual fighters. Ukr is running out of the men who carry guns and shoot people. THey have plenty of people in uniform who don't go to the front and have way higher than avg net worth.
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LOL
 
hmt5000 said:
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Ukr pulling 60 year old men off the street to go to the front.... But I'm sure that's Russian disinfo.

The thing about Russia's spring offensive that is still ongoing is that it's not just a couple places and lots of defense. They are actively attacking in dozens of places on the line at the same time. When Ukr shifts troops to stop an attack Rus will attack the spot those guys left. The whole point of the Khakiv offensive that was so weird was that Rus had 150k troops on the border but only sent 30 to 50k across for the attack. Ukr sent 3 or 4 brigades from the south to shore up the area and Rus attacked the areas those brigades pulled out from.

It's attritional warfare and some on here don't seem to understand what that is. Ukr is running out of men to fight. Rus still has over 1 million fighters... Not just 800k soldiers like people say Ukr has... You need support troops to supply the actual fighters. Ukr is running out of the men who carry guns and shoot people. THey have plenty of people in uniform who don't go to the front and have way higher than avg net worth.
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If Ukraine is pulling 60 years olds, Russia is pulling 70 year olds....



 
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Caveman Catfan said:
Hilarious. 🤦‍♂️
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fasvweffwe.jpg
 
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Caveman Catfan said:
Our grandchildren will thank us for defending democracy and not seeking peace. For sure!!
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''My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep''
 
Ukraine abandoned Krynky. Months ago Ukraine bragged that they could cross the river and take ground from Russia. Ukraine Marines who made it out alive are telling a different story. The ground was too swampy for trenches so once all the building were bombed out they were basically just left there to be shot at in the open. 100's of soldiers are missing and presumed dead. One army medic saved dozens of lives of soldiers who lost limbs but weren't able to evacuate for up to 10 days due to constant bombardment.

These guys were put there for a political stunt and propaganda. They never seriously threatened to extend out of that town. They just sat there and died. Some people in Europe are saying this war could go on for 10 years.... People have their head in the sand about how many men are left in the Ukraine army. Missing needs to be recognized as dead.
 


Serious question.... How many anomalies before it's obvious it wasn't an accident?
 
RunninRichie said:
''My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep''
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This again? Still think the Russians will be in Paris and Berlin if we don’t stop them in Ukraine?

I am asking nicely, please understand what’s different now than in 1938.
 
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hmt5000 said:
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Russia produces more munitions in a day than the US produces in a month... Outsourcing our industrial base has consequences.
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Very good point. We outsourced most all manufacturing. In a pinch, we now cant even repurpose existing lines to make what we need. All an enemy need do is cut off any supply line from Mexico and we're toast. I need not mention the supply lines in Asia because that would take minimal effort to stop.

We don't mine coal or other resources critical to defense. So even if we could conceivably manufacture something, we have no raw materials.

This little blurb of info should really alert people for more reasons than this conflict, but it wont.
 
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JumperJack said:
This again? Still think the Russians will be in Paris and Berlin if we don’t stop them in Ukraine?

I am asking nicely, please understand what’s different now than in 1938.
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No. They will try (the baltics and other former USSR countries). That's been explained a few times.
 
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