So they will tell us when we can stop sending them money that we borrow from our crumbling future.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
That sentence makes no sense.
So, you cannot answer the question. Got it.
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The president of the United States is a doddering old fool who can't carry a thought, even from a teleprompter. If you're looking at that mummified shell of a human for any sort of guidance, it's easy to see how you've been duped. Good lord open your eyes.
For the umpteenth time, we have a 1994 treaty with Ukraine to give open-ended aid to them in the event they are invaded. Russia and Britain are also parties to that treaty. We are treaty-bound to give aid. Europe is not.
“The Memorandum is unquestionably an off-shoot of the NPT and other nuclear disarmament deals like the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START). That said, the Memorandum itself is not a treaty at all. It is not legally binding. The full title of the Memorandum is “On Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine’s Accession to the Treaty on the Non-proliferation of Nuclear Weapons,” and uses the word “commitment” six times. However, as noted by Steven Pifer of the Brookings Institution:
Call it what you like but understand that we chose to honor it. We did not promise any particular level of support. Therefore, all levels are on the table. It’s our choice and we, and Britain (and ironically, Russia) chose to provide military equipment, training and humanitarian aid.
Ok.
If the written “Memorandum” in which we gave “assurances” six times to Ukraine but no “guarantees” . . . if that does not legally bind us to help them . . . .
THEN the Russian and Alt-Right dependence on merely verbal discussions that NATO not be expanded Eastward is out the window.
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Your takes are nauseating. It’s like you ran to the internet in the last month to brush up on your knowledge of the situation instead of actually paying attention along the way. Russia looks at it like it is protecting eastern Ukrainians. There’s no off ramp. The west ran to provide so much military aid and attempt to economically ruin Russia without giving a thought to an exit strategy. Typical western thinking. This is gonna continue to escalate. At best ukraine loses the east and 50000 Ukrainians at worst this becomes a world war.
Yes, lord help him if he bothers to try to understand what he's talking about by researching his positions before he shoots off at the lip. What's wrong with that guy?
Lol holy shit. It’s doesn’t legally bind us. I found that much in the first 30 seconds of looking.
It’s not a treaty. Not law. Not binding. It’s hard to believe that some of you evidently have believed we are obligated to do this.
Whether it’s smart strategy is and has always been the point. Just as whether pushing NATO east is smart.
No treaty legally binds us either. Take, for example, Putin’s withdrawal from the Start Treaty.
It’s always smart strategy to end Russia’s history of warmongering which goes back centuries. They still live in the 20th century and are quickly learning that they have been left behind.
It further emboldens Putin and China for 1. For another, it would be unbelievably naive to think Putin stops there. He was pretty clear a couple of times, he wanted all of Ukraine. After that he would have moved on other countries. All the while gaining resources and power.
We could not allow that not to mention the importance of Ukraine in food production and its natural resources. Not to mention the value of its ports. Finally, there comes a time when a sovereign country deserves to be protected if that is possible.
I never said the west was buying the coal, did I? There would be buyers though so Ukraine would have lost that wealth. Please turn your brain on and stop the tunnel vision.
Which makes the notion that we’re bound by the Budapest memorandum even more silly, since it carries no weight at all.
So now we’re reversing the course of Russian history. I’m sure that will be simple. Maybe after that we can reverse the problems with Islam, settle the conflict in the mid-East, fix the enmity between India and Pakistan, and get cats and dogs to get along.
Europe should be helping Ukraine. They are the primary beneficiaries. Please don’t pretend this eludes you.
So let me reflect your logic back to you: our government should spend billions to obtain a favorable peace for Ukrainian coal (which ostensibly would be sold to China, in case you can’t read between the lines) while destroying our own economy by shutting down industries run by coal.
All this instead of demanding that Europe pay for Ukrainian defense.
In many areas that is probably true. I'm sure we're very interested in their titanium.
Nothing in my posts suggests you had misread the Memorandum. My point was very simple: if a written Memorandum is nothing, then our verbal statements suggesting no move of NATO East post-1994 is less than nothing and non-binding.
The Ruskie’s and Alt-Right (on this very thread) have blamed us for the War, saying we broke an agreement not to move NATO East.
Most are. And the Japs pledged 7 billion the other day. The Germans have kicked in 10 percent of our total to date.
No.
Not enough, but should we slow ours, that is no guarantee the Huns step theirs up.
We can guarantee this from the last 78 years: the French and Germans will always stand behind American and British leadership . . . usually as far behind it as they can get.
Stick to the war in Ukraine, you messy poster. LOL
Again, we choose to give aid to Ukraine, as do more than 50 other nations.
Reversing the course of Russian history? Are you a drama queen? We are stopping Russia’s history of aggression against other nations.
Europe is helping Ukraine, tremendously. Even reluctant Germany is onboard now that they know they won’t freeze to death.
Also, unbelievably, Serbia is providing ammunition to Ukraine. That surprised me.
And, as it turns out, it is Russia that is moving NATO to the East. LOL
We should have put up a sign: “Invade it, and we will come!”
I’m not sure of any agreement with Russia but we’ve seen that people as respected as Kennan believed it was not wise. You just cannot expect that Russia will cede influence in that region.
This is probably true but would also be a source of future trouble…unless Russia somehow fell into the hands of an extremely pro-Western faction. Everything about their history says that won’t happen.
After watching countless YouTube interviews of Russian people on the streets of their cities and in the countryside, I conclude that they are doomed to authoritarian governments indefinitely. They are a passive population who have very little interest in politics and expect someone to seize power internally and rule over them. They don’t understand democracy and see themselves as powerless pawns of their ruler.
The best we can hope for these poor people is that they manage to get a benign dictator who has no interest in expansionism or wars but just the stabilization of the Russian society. This is one nation that will never use democratic principles in the governance of its people.
I feel there is a lack of creativity, but rather full on stubbornness from both sides while people die and war is furthered. If Russia took part of the East and then the remaining Ukraine was given a clear path to NATO membership, could the concerns for the future be assuaged? Why is the possibility of a cease fire and resolution denied by so many who don’t have a dog truly in the fight? If your sons and daughters were on the front line, would it be different? Sitting on the other side of the world claiming that the only resolution is what you desire rings hollow, IMO.
A total Russian collapse is surprisingly close
Now, General Ben Hodges, former commander of US forces in Europe, has devised a strategy he believes would not only enable Ukraine to retake Crimea, but would precipitate a total Russian military implosion.
His suggestion is as follows: isolate the peninsula by precision strikes against the two land routes connecting it with Russian territory – the Kerch bridge and the corridor that runs along the Azov sea. Then follow up with a large-scale armoured drive towards the Azov, penetrating Russian defences north of Crimea, bringing rocket and artillery systems into closer range. Russian air, ground and naval forces in the peninsula would then be reduced by precision strike and bombardment, until the point when Ukrainian forces could launch a ground offensive along the Perekop Isthmus and into Crimea.
This concerted attack against the peninsula – isolating it, neutralising and inflicting severe damage against its military infrastructure by long range strikes – would be a major blow for Russian morale. In the absence of decisive battlefield success elsewhere, it would represent a defeat for Moscow that it could not disguise, and could lead to collapse of Russian forces in the field and even to Putin’s downfall.
Now, General Ben Hodges, former commander of US forces in Europe, has devised a strategy he believes would not only enable Ukraine to retake Crimea, but would precipitate a total Russian military implosion.
His suggestion is as follows: isolate the peninsula by precision strikes against the two land routes connecting it with Russian territory – the Kerch bridge and the corridor that runs along the Azov sea. Then follow up with a large-scale armoured drive towards the Azov, penetrating Russian defences north of Crimea, bringing rocket and artillery systems into closer range. Russian air, ground and naval forces in the peninsula would then be reduced by precision strike and bombardment, until the point when Ukrainian forces could launch a ground offensive along the Perekop Isthmus and into Crimea.
This concerted attack against the peninsula – isolating it, neutralising and inflicting severe damage against its military infrastructure by long range strikes – would be a major blow for Russian morale. In the absence of decisive battlefield success elsewhere, it would represent a defeat for Moscow that it could not disguise, and could lead to collapse of Russian forces in the field and even to Putin’s downfall.
Putin is not done with Europe. Would the GQP also give him the entire continent?
It isn't us, it's Ukraine. They refuse to give up their land. They especially don't want to give up their coal producing region. Do you not pay attention to what Ukraine wants? They can stop fighting and give in to Vlad whenever they want. You do realize that, right?
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