The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[Wildcats1st]

For whom is there peace through appeasement? You can’t grasp that Putin is brandishing a two-sided sword.

On one side is war and on the other is appeasement. You see the appeasement side as duller and less cutting than the war side.

In actuality, the only difference is that the appeasement side is slower in its cuts. Only one side has an end for Putin, the war side.

He can be defeated via war. Appeasement will never stop him.

He is a psychopath. He will never be satisfied, appeased. It’s his nature, as horrific as all of the psychopathic dictators before him.

2 things on appeasement. Ukraine has fought the west has supplied. If Ukraine went to negotiate it wouldn’t be appeasement it would be self preservation

Second thing because this term is thrown around like hitler. In this day and age of technology and advanced nuclear weaponry the lessons learned in the lead up to ww2 are no applicable. The environment is completely different. Yet we look to ww2 for lessons. This is going to lead to unintended consequences. Appeasement gave way to brinksmanship. That seems to be the actual lesson forgotten. I don’t think the world can handle any high level brinksmanship in this era for substantial periods of time.

The millennial and gen Zs I have no faith in to navigate through these conditions they never experienced. Weapons tests they never saw. Or the massive generational gap between Nagasaki and Hiroshima to today. I do not have faith in a gamer culture that kills virtually with impunity to keep the world going with this next level brinksmanship. From Iran and Israel to USA v Russia v North Korea v China at some point the damn will break. So you see it is necessary to make compromise and settle things through diplomacy. Appeasement is not applicable anymore. It’s another dug up phrase that people rely on to justify going heavy and blind into a global war.

 

[LOL_Man]

Appeasement is not applicable anymore.

Appeasement has never been more applicable. You might as well claim history itself is no longer applicable as you'd be equally ridiculous.

Appeasing Putin now lets him up off the carpet right when we had him down and he will not forget that. He becomes stronger. China's trust in him grows and their partnership strengthens as well. They share more militarily and intelligence wise. China, in turn, certainly becomes emboldened.

So what will a stronger Putin/Russia and a stronger China do? Sit there and be content with what you ceded them?

If we put Putin away now then he is finished and a new Russian government emerges and as I have explained before the West in general and us in particular have much, much more to offer a new Russian government than China does. All the things a weakened Russia and a new government need are exactly what we can dangle in front of them.

China is even more isolated with a Russian defeat. They bet the farm on Putin because they want Taiwan and they were looking for Putin to make that tenable on the national stage again. Having stained themselves with Vlad, his demise puts them back in the box and if we turn Russia against them under a new government they are checkmated. Their expansionist dreams die and eventually just as their population collapses so do they.

So the stakes are EVERYTHING in Ukraine.

 

[Wildcats1st]

Appeasement has never been more applicable. You might as well claim history itself is no longer applicable as you'd be equally ridiculous.

Appeasing Putin now lets him up off the carpet right when we had him down and he will not forget that. He becomes stronger. China's trust in him grows and their partnership strengthens as well. They share more militarily and intelligence wise. China, in turn, certainly becomes emboldened.

So what will a stronger Putin/Russia and a stronger China do? Sit there and be content with what you ceded them?

If we put Putin away now then he is finished and a new Russian government emerges and as I have explained before the West in general and us in particular have much, much more to offer a new Russian government than China does. All the things a weakened Russia and a new government need are exactly what we can dangle in front of them.

China is even more isolated with a Russian defeat. They bet the farm on Putin because they want Taiwan and they were looking for Putin to make that tenable on the national stage again. Having stained themselves with Vlad, his demise puts them back in the box and if we turn Russia against them under a new government they are checkmated. Their expansionist dreams die and eventually just as their population collapses so do they.

So the stakes are EVERYTHING in Ukraine.

It’s ridiculous to apply this antiquated way of thinking to one country. Let’s look at Israel for a minute. A country that in 67 was attacked by its neighbors. Used overwhelming force to defeat its neighbors and since had been pressed by the USA time and time again to give “land for peace”. Why is it ok for the USA to push for Israeli concessions a nation attacked but not Ukraine? I mean the stakes are far higher with israeli survival.

You clowns press for the peace you see applicable to your cause. There are lots of disputed territories globally. We re supposed to push war? I mean hell we have negotiated settlements with for Israel, for India/Pakistan, for sectarian causes in Iraq, Afghanistan, the list goes on and on. Wtf was the Iran nuclear deal if not crystal clear appeasement for the neo con/lib cause???

It has never and none of these have ever been referred to as appeasement but as soon as the USA anoints it’s new hitler in Europe we must not appease him. It’s the most incoherent obvious brain washing the country has undergone. The problem is the nation is as fooled once with iraq and the next time it gets sucked into a cause not our own, this time, it will not end well. Was it not appeasement to listen to N korea threaten and allow them to develop nuclear weapons? You guys pumping Ukraine are clowns. It’s the same neo con/lib policies that have enabled Iran to have enough fissile material for multiple nukes while developing cutting edge ballistic tech.

It’s the stupid neo con/lib policies forcing Israel to give up areas won in a war against its enemies for the promise of peace. The same idiot logic that allowed North Korea to blatantly develop and establish a significant nuclear program. The same lib/neo con policies that gave a chunk of our economy to China. The same neo con/lib garbage that let China get away with biological attack on the world. The same ignorant lib/neo con policy that has appeased hackers in Ukraine Russia and China to time and time again attack our power grid, hold information for ransom, attack military systems.

You want me to continue with appeasement the us has enabled bad actors with? I haven’t even touched on the fact that Ukraine and Europe have ALREADY used appeasement in Ukraine when Russia went in and took Crimea. You see as incoherent as Obama’s foreign policy was he at least understood war with Russia isn’t worth crimea or eastern Ukraine. Even when this war started the idiot in chief said “Ukraine will have to make concessions will have to give up some territory”. You know the guy who doesn’t have A thought in his empty brain. He said that and now look at us. Waist deep in this garbage. No you clowns and you appeasement garbage. This isn’t ww2. It’s doesn’t have the whiff of ww2. This is a new world one with far deadly and dangerous consequences for moronic actions. This appeasement appeasement hitler hitler talk honestly is more in line with nazi propaganda to gin up the war machine than any other actions currently. You say this crap enough and everyone just forgets the stupid decisions of the post war world. One in which many very bad people have been able to acquire global ending technology. One that has empowered dictators who have lobbied our leaders for decades. The table has already been set and this idiotic mindset put us on the path to certain destruction.

You asked about China and Russia. China and Russia are growing closer and closer because of this drawn out terrible Ukraine policy. There is no deterring nuclear powers if they want something. You’re willing to blow up the world over Ukraine? Taiwan? Russia and China are becoming more emboldened as is n korea and Iran. You goons need to wake up because doing the opposite of something 75 years later isn’t going to lead to some completely opposite results.

 

[Marleydogg]

Appeasement has never been more applicable. You might as well claim history itself is no longer applicable as you'd be equally ridiculous.

Appeasing Putin now lets him up off the carpet right when we had him down and he will not forget that. He becomes stronger. China's trust in him grows and their partnership strengthens as well. They share more militarily and intelligence wise. China, in turn, certainly becomes emboldened.

So what will a stronger Putin/Russia and a stronger China do? Sit there and be content with what you ceded them?

If we put Putin away now then he is finished and a new Russian government emerges and as I have explained before the West in general and us in particular have much, much more to offer a new Russian government than China does. All the things a weakened Russia and a new government need are exactly what we can dangle in front of them.

China is even more isolated with a Russian defeat. They bet the farm on Putin because they want Taiwan and they were looking for Putin to make that tenable on the national stage again. Having stained themselves with Vlad, his demise puts them back in the box and if we turn Russia against them under a new government they are checkmated. Their expansionist dreams die and eventually just as their population collapses so do they.

So the stakes are EVERYTHING in Ukraine.

So instead of appeasing putin, we label him a war criminal and basically signal regime change, which basically means putin death at the hands of the Hague or whoever. (See, Iraq, Libya, etc.)

No, no chance he would ever use nukes if it looks like he is going down in flames.
Nope. No chance.

 

[Marleydogg]

I'm still waiting on one of you Warhawks to explain your position that putin is a bloodthirsty madman tyrant psycho, bit he would NEVER use a nuke!

Please, explain.

 

[LOL_Man]

Let’s look at Israel for a minute. A country that in 67 was attacked by its neighbors. Used overwhelming force to defeat its neighbors and since had been pressed by the USA time and time again to give “land for peace”. Why is it ok for the USA to push for Israeli concessions a nation attacked but not Ukraine? I mean the stakes are far higher with israeli survival.

Because Israel was then and is now in clear violation of international law, that's why. Let me know if you want me to link dozens of UN resolutions Israel has flaunted over the years since and before 1967.​

There is no deterring nuclear powers if they want something. You’re willing to blow up the world over Ukraine?

There's your argument in a nutshell. You rationalize giving Ukraine over to slaughter by the Russians because of a few empty threats.

How about North Korea? Are you willing to give them South Korea?

China meets your criteria and then some. So Taiwan is theirs for the taking because if you don't give it to them then they'll blow up the world, too?

Where does your appeasement end, Mr. Chamberlain? Is there nothing your rubbery spine won't cow to if it momentarily spares your yellow hide?

 

[entropy13]

I'm still waiting on one of you Warhawks to explain your position that putin is a bloodthirsty madman tyrant psycho, bit he would NEVER use a nuke!

Please, explain.

It's really not that hard. Even a tyrant can be a realist. Countries who have stayed neutral would likely condemn it, China would seriously reevaluate its relationship (already having buyer's remorse), and Russia would be cripplingly isolated.

Also using a nuke, most likely a tactical one, has no real battlefield value, and it'd likely contaminate territory Russia currently holds, both in Ukraine and Russia proper.

 

[SDC888]

 

[WildcatofNati]

It's really not that hard. Even a tyrant can be a realist. Countries who have stayed neutral would likely condemn it, China would seriously reevaluate its relationship (already having buyer's remorse), and Russia would be cripplingly isolated.

Also using a nuke, most likely a tactical one, has no real battlefield value, and it'd likely contaminate territory Russia currently holds, both in Ukraine and Russia proper.

This is a good argument as to why Putin has not used a nuke in Ukraine. It does not address the proposal of a couple of maniacs in this thread to force a regime change in Moscow and to essentially turn Russia into a US vassal. In that case, the missiles will fly. It would be the case here as well if a foreign power sought to overthrow our government. It would be the same in France, the UK, etc. It would have been an option used by Saddam Hussein- if he had possessed nukes.

 

[SDC888]

He's never actually threatened to use nukes. At least I've never seen it.

Yes, I've seen the news say he did. I've read that a million times. But I've never actually seen him threaten to use nukes to win his "special military operation," just sabre rattle about any NATO attack on Russia's existence.

 

[LOL_Man]

So instead of appeasing putin, we label him a war criminal and basically signal regime change, which basically means putin death at the hands of the Hague or whoever. (See, Iraq, Libya, etc.)

No, no chance he would ever use nukes if it looks like he is going down in flames.
Nope. No chance.

Putin knew going in that failure means his end. Putin also knows that if he orders a nuclear strike he will have a bullet in his ear before he leaves the room. Putin is walled off already from his nukes. Men with families will kill to ensure that.

Once you bend over to Putin there is no going back. Once you accept his nuclear threats then where does it end? You think Ukraine satisfies him because if you do then you are a fool. He will directly go into Moldova next. Then the Republican Party will start their new mud slinging war on Poland to beat those drums for Putin. They've already had a head start on undermining NATO under the Putin/Trump Presidency.

If you can't see the synchronicity between Putin's desires and the Republican's talking points then you're willfully blind.

The Republicans are in bed with Vladimir Putin, or at least I should say the Trump Republicans are as thankfully there still are some decent actual American ones left but they are shrinking by the day and will effectively be completely absent from the Republican Convention meaningfully as there won't be a platform again, there will only be Trump's petulant desires for whatever strikes his whim because you lapdogs will certainly indulge him no matter how obscene.

Some things are more important than... everything else. No matter what stunts you people try, no matter how low down your bowing to Putin and Trump take you, there are good men in place on both sides that will see this through. Trump will never be President again. Putin will die.

Ukraine will win. Russia and China will crumble to historical footnotes to the United States. We stand for the most powerful force in the universe and free men will not be denied by the likes of cowards betraying their country like you fools nor thuggish brutish killers like Putin.

The very history you and your kind keep trying to dismiss has already foretold how this ends even if you don't want to listen. It is already written.

 

[bcw1029]

I get it. I completely understand the argument, why you feel that way.

But that's not what I want. (no, I'm not making an isolationist argument)

But that’s what the Ukrainians want. Not diminishing you as a person, however what YOU want is irrelevant. There’s only one action required by the aggressor to begin as the starting point and foundation block for a peace process. We all know what that is.

Yes, it is an isolationist argument.

 

[bcw1029]

This is a good argument as to why Putin has not used a nuke in Ukraine. It does not address the proposal of a couple of maniacs in this thread to force a regime change in Moscow and to essentially turn Russia into a US vassal. In that case, the missiles will fly. It would be the case here as well if a foreign power sought to overthrow our government. It would be the same in France, the UK, etc. It would have been an option used by Saddam Hussein- if he had possessed nukes.

LOL no one in this thread has called for regime change in Moscow by the U.S., only by the Russians themselves. If there’s a post I missed that said otherwise, I‘ll stand corrected.

 

[SDC888]

But that’s what the Ukrainians want. Not diminishing you as a person, however what YOU want is irrelevant. There’s only one action required by the aggressor to begin as the starting point and foundation block for a peace process. We all know what that is.

Yes, it is an isolationist argument.

Ukrainians aren't monolithic.

What they want may lead to their total destruction with only a rump state in the west remaining. It may very well be that nothing is more detrimental to them as a nation than helping them.

 

[WildcatofNati]

LOL no one in this thread has called for regime change in Moscow by the U.S., only by the Russians themselves. If there’s a post I missed that said otherwise, I‘ll stand corrected.

There is an indeed one maniac who is demanding exactly that, and his identity? Well, for a hint, look at the first three letters of your response.

 

[LOL_Man]

There is an indeed one maniac who is demanding exactly that, and his identity? Well, for a hint, look at the first three letters of your response.

False. It would be both foolish and unnecessary for the US to be involved in Russian regime change.

As I have repeated time and time again said, Putin knew going in the price of failure was exile or death as that is the Russian way.

 

[Catemus]

View embedded media

Ooh, an unidentified international investor. What other Russian propaganda did he provide? LOL

 

[LOL_Man]

Maybe they should send Rudy over and let him have a look. Take Sidney Powell with him just to bolster their credibility. I wonder if they have a Four Seasons Landscaping in Ukraine?

 

[Catemus]

Ukrainians aren't monolithic.

What they want may lead to their total destruction with only a rump state in the west remaining. It may very well be that nothing is more detrimental to them as a nation than helping them.

You seem to be a year behind with your propaganda. It’s obvious to anyone following the war that Ukraine has pushed the invaders far into its eastern oblasts and are gearing up for a spring offensive that will carry them through Melitopol and into Crimea, cutting Putin’s landbridge.

But keep posting those propaganda reruns. Maybe you’re getting paid by the word?

 

[entropy13]

This is a good argument as to why Putin has not used a nuke in Ukraine. It does not address the proposal of a couple of maniacs in this thread to force a regime change in Moscow and to essentially turn Russia into a US vassal. In that case, the missiles will fly. It would be the case here as well if a foreign power sought to overthrow our government. It would be the same in France, the UK, etc. It would have been an option used by Saddam Hussein- if he had possessed nukes.

As others have pointed out, if any regime change happens in Russia, it'll be because their invasion flops and there's an internal move against Putin. For a variety of reasons, Russia would never become a U.S. "vassal." That idea and the idea that those who are against appeasement want to force regime change upon Russia at the risk of a nuclear exchange are things you've concocted in your own head, or are straw man arguments built by the appeaseniks here in this thread as fear-mongering techniques.

 

[SDC888]

 

[SDC888]

False. It would be both foolish and unnecessary for the US to be involved in Russian regime change.

As I have repeated time and time again said, Putin knew going in the price of failure was exile or death as that is the Russian way.

All that's true...

which is why you dupe a population of European fools led by corrupt morons into doing it for you.

 

[Catemus]

View embedded media

Shilling for Putin.

 

[Marleydogg]

LOL no one in this thread has called for regime change in Moscow by the U.S., only by the Russians themselves. If there’s a post I missed that said otherwise, I‘ll stand corrected.

Joe Biden said it, guy.

 

[SDC888]

Joe Biden said it, guy.

He said it very early, one of those slips of the tongue where he inadvertently tells the truth.

I was telling you pro-war people that was the goal of our proxy war from the start, back when you were still arguing that it wasn't even a proxy war.

 

[bcw1029]

Joe Biden said it, guy.

“in this thread” is what I was referencing. I haven’t seen the Biden comment yet

 

[Marleydogg]

“in this thread” is what I was referencing. I haven’t seen the Biden comment yet

Soooo, you're more concerned about message board posters statements than statements by the U.S. President?

 

[JumperJack]

Russia invaded Ukraine. Brutally. They are killing with impunity. We have officially concluded they are war criminals.

How, on what planet, is the side that is coddling Russia also trying to claim they want peace?

WHEN YOU SAY YOU WANT PEACE YOU MEAN YOU WANT SURRENDER.

Don't you get that, yet? You want to leave the Ukrainians to be slaughtered and dominated by an invading Russian army. How the ^)(^&* is that "peace"?

Sometimes peace means settlement. Most wars end this way.

 

[JumperJack]

Putin may be a hero to you but most of the free world sees him as a war criminal.

This is a pathetic attempt at an answer, barely worthy of a middle schooler. I guess you won’t or can’t answer.

 

[JumperJack]

Again, it's fascinating to me how you Warhawks can say putin is a war criminal and when he is defeated is going to get his comeuppance, and also say no way would he ever use a nuke.

Explain.

Let me go ahead on his behalf: you’re a Putin apologist and something about Ivan, propaganda, anti-American. Probably left a few out but that will be the gist.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

For whom is there peace through appeasement? You can’t grasp that Putin is brandishing a two-sided sword.

On one side is war and on the other is appeasement. You see the appeasement side as duller and less cutting than the war side.

In actuality, the only difference is that the appeasement side is slower in its cuts. Only one side has an end for Putin, the war side.

He can be defeated via war. Appeasement will never stop him.

He is a psychopath. He will never be satisfied, appeased. It’s his nature, as horrific as all of the psychopathic dictators before him.

Well said

 

[Catemus]

Sometimes peace means settlement. Most wars end this way.

Sometimes, but in this case it means victory over Putin. No other result is reasonable. No other result will give peace.

He has conquered bought the alt-right faction of the Republican Party and thinks they will ultimately take over the US in 2024. The elections of 2022 should have shown him and the alt right that the movement towards authoritarian rule in the US is dwindling.

Trump was their big hope and he floundered. Now they have only Putin to lead them, and he’s too remote. There is an army of Putin shills who are trying to hide behind a Libertarian mask as they shout out, “We need to mind our own business. This is not our war!”

The number of “Libertarians” has multiplied exponentially since 2/24/2022. LOL. If there had been that many all along, there would be several Libertarian senators in Congress.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I get it. I completely understand the argument, why you feel that way.

But that's not what I want. They are going to have to live next to each other, one wyay or the other, regardless. They are going to have make some sort of peace agreement eventually. The interim will just be them killing each other with impunity, as you put it, which they are exactly the same towards one another in that regard, believe it or not. The longer this goes on, the more death and destruction, and the more hatred engendered, further perpetuating the same stupidity that got us here in the first place. This is an entirely needless and stupid ethnic conflict on the European continent with the potentiality of enveloping the rest of the world in it as we see now with China considering providing military aid to Rusia, precisely the kind of nonsense the founding fathers warned us against involving ourselves in. (no, I'm not making an isolationist argument)

This not an ethnic conflict. This is a land grab. One thing I dont think you realize is if Putin were to be appeased by allowing him to take Ukraine, the Ukrainians wouldn't stop dying. You just wouldn't have to see it everyday and you wouldn't have our tax dollars going over there. The Ukrainians only chance at survival is to help them fight.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Sometimes, but in this case it means victory over Putin. No other result is reasonable. No other result will give peace.

He has conquered bought the alt-right faction of the Republican Party and thinks they will ultimately take over the US in 2024. The elections of 2022 should have shown him and the alt right that the movement towards authoritarian rule in the US is dwindling.

Trump was their big hope and he floundered. Now they have only Putin to lead them, and he’s too remote. There is an army of Putin shills who are trying to hide behind a Libertarian mask as they shout out, “We need to mind our own business. This is not our war!”

The number of “Libertarians” has multiplied exponentially since 2/24/2022. LOL. If there had been that many all along, there would be several Libertarian senators in Congress.

I have Libertarian friends. They simply can't wrap their heads around the simple fact that it doesn't and won't work. At least at a basic level, order must be maintained.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Putin knew going in that failure means his end. Putin also knows that if he orders a nuclear strike he will have a bullet in his ear before he leaves the room. Putin is walled off already from his nukes. Men with families will kill to ensure that.

Once you bend over to Putin there is no going back. Once you accept his nuclear threats then where does it end? You think Ukraine satisfies him because if you do then you are a fool. He will directly go into Moldova next. Then the Republican Party will start their new mud slinging war on Poland to beat those drums for Putin. They've already had a head start on undermining NATO under the Putin/Trump Presidency.

If you can't see the synchronicity between Putin's desires and the Republican's talking points then you're willfully blind.

The Republicans are in bed with Vladimir Putin, or at least I should say the Trump Republicans are as thankfully there still are some decent actual American ones left but they are shrinking by the day and will effectively be completely absent from the Republican Convention meaningfully as there won't be a platform again, there will only be Trump's petulant desires for whatever strikes his whim because you lapdogs will certainly indulge him no matter how obscene.

Some things are more important than... everything else. No matter what stunts you people try, no matter how low down your bowing to Putin and Trump take you, there are good men in place on both sides that will see this through. Trump will never be President again. Putin will die.

Ukraine will win. Russia and China will crumble to historical footnotes to the United States. We stand for the most powerful force in the universe and free men will not be denied by the likes of cowards betraying their country like you fools nor thuggish brutish killers like Putin.

The very history you and your kind keep trying to dismiss has already foretold how this ends even if you don't want to listen. It is already written.

Interesting. You may be right after all, Z.

 

[Catemus]

Well said

Notice that he didn

Well said

Notice that he didn’t respond. Instead, he rolled out old propaganda reruns that have gotten crusty and stale. That’s what Putin shills do.

I’ve encountered many of them on the sites where the war in Ukraine is being discussed. They seem to be using a script. They won’t explicitly show their pathetic Putin patronage, but it’s always there.

They like taking a page from the Libertarian Party’s platform regarding US isolationism. It’s comical the way they’ve become so libertarian in their posts.

 

[JumperJack]

Sometimes, but in this case it means victory over Putin. No other result is reasonable. No other result will give peace.

He has conquered bought the alt-right faction of the Republican Party and thinks they will ultimately take over the US in 2024. The elections of 2022 should have shown him and the alt right that the movement towards authoritarian rule in the US is dwindling.

Trump was their big hope and he floundered. Now they have only Putin to lead them, and he’s too remote. There is an army of Putin shills who are trying to hide behind a Libertarian mask as they shout out, “We need to mind our own business. This is not our war!”

The number of “Libertarians” has multiplied exponentially since 2/24/2022. LOL. If there had been that many all along, there would be several Libertarian senators in Congress.

Must have been a sale on tin foil today. Nobody can take you seriously with this kind of crap. Especially the nutso notion that we must have total victory over Putin, whatever that means.

If you have something showing that Putin owns politicians, share it.

Here in the real world, there are real documents that tie the POTUS and his son to Chinese and Ukrainian influence. At any other point in history, we’d use the word compromised.

 

[Catemus]

Interesting. You may be right after all, Z.

View embedded media

The people of Russia are slow to see evil it seems but when they do they take action to eliminate it.

Igor Mangushev, a Russian officer, brandished a human skull at a concert and said it was from a Ukrainian soldier who he killed in Mariupol. On February 5, 2023 he was shot in the head at close range and killed near the city of Luhansk. His commanding officer, Yevgeny Prigozhin, refused any comment about the matter and did not investigate the killing of Mangushev.

Perhaps the horror of the psychopaths in the war is getting to the average Russian soldier. Hopefully, they’ll see that their commander in chief is also a psychopath.

Skull-Toting Russian Mercenary Shot ‘Execution-Style’

Igor Mangushev, an affiliate of the private mercenary Wagner group, has claimed that he and his associates invented the “Z” symbol of support for the Russian invasion.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Catemus]

Must have been a sale on tin foil today. Nobody can take you seriously with this kind of crap. Especially the nutso notion that we must have total victory over Putin, whatever that means.

If you have something showing that Putin owns politicians, share it.

Here in the real world, there are real documents that tie the POTUS and his son to Chinese and Ukrainian influence. At any other point in history, we’d use the word compromised.

You’re a broken record. You really want to run this thread, don’t you?

Okay, it works both ways. Share the documents that tie Biden and his son to Chinese and Ukrainian influence.

 

[jameslee32]