And Biden already threatened his life basically, in an off script 'gaffe'.
Think putin didn't hear that?
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
And Biden already threatened his life basically, in an off script 'gaffe'.
Think putin didn't hear that?
You don't understand the Cuban Missile Crisis, clearly. Had we yielded then to nuclear threats as you desire to do now then we've have had a Russian nuclear armed base in Cuba by 1968. We blockaided them and called their bluff at the direct risk of nuclear war, not ducked from it as you and your friends spend so much time lobbying for in here. The Russians removed the missiles that started the whole thing so what are you even talking about?
Prague nor Budapest are examples of appeasement, they are examples of what happens when there is a vacuum in US world power and an aggressive foe perceives an opening they can take advantage of and exploit. Had the US had the opportunity then as we do now in Ukraine to stop the Russians cold then we would have been derelict not to.
---
We also had staggering amounts of hubris & stupidity in Iraq & Afghanistan. I see nothing that convinces me we learned anything from that 20 year debacle or from any of the other military disasters we've presided over in the last 60 years.
Last edited:
We removed missiles from Turkey, as part of the deal which is what Khrushchev wanted in the first place, dum dum. As for Prague and Budapest, what happened there was indeed appeasement, and it's what you Communist scum wanted anyway. Do you think I'm blind? Do you not realize that I know that Leftists such as yourself loved what happened in 1956 and 1968, but HATE Russia now? Because, it's no longer the USSR, lol.
It's amusing. Leftists like LolZ and Jameslee hate Russia because it's no longer the USSR, and old Cold Warriors like BigBlueGa and VH hate Russia because they're convinced that it is still IS the USSR.
Strange bedfellows....
Strange bedfellows....
Actually, the US negotiated the removal of its own medium-range Jupiter missiles from Italy & Turkey as a counter offer for the Soviets removing their missiles from Cuba. I think you must have watched too much of the Big Picture in the 1960s.
The key on Afghanistan and Iraq should be that you don't want to own it. Get in, accomplish the mission and get out. Don't own it.
We should never have toppled the Iraqi government completely and somebody should have went to jail for disbanding their army. There could even be a strong case for not wanting to take out Saddam as he happened to actually be pretty good at killing terrorists. Bush Sr. made the correct call to leave him in power in the first Gulf War and he took some political damage for that decision, but history has proven his assessment true that if he took out Saddam he would destabilize the region.
We should never have toppled the Iraqi government completely and somebody should have went to jail for disbanding their army. There could even be a strong case for not wanting to take out Saddam as he happened to actually be pretty good at killing terrorists. Bush Sr. made the correct call to leave him in power in the first Gulf War and he took some political damage for that decision, but history has proven his assessment true that if he took out Saddam he would destabilize the region.
Impossible to talk to you guys as you just constantly move the goal posts. You're not rational participants in a discussion, you're raving street corner hooligans frothing at the mouth and gripped by imaginary hatreds.
If you're not willing to even entertain opposing viewpoints then why bother? What do you get out of discussing things?
If you're not willing to even entertain opposing viewpoints then why bother? What do you get out of discussing things?
The discussion was whether or not the Cuban Missile Crisis was an example of appeasement when clearly it was not. We did not bow to the threat of nuclear war with Russia we stared it down in that example.
Nonsense. They stared us down. They got what they wanted in the first place. But the good news is, it didn't result in the Apocalypse. In that respect, both sides won, if you will.
I personally would love to hear the warmongers on this threads opinions on Hernan Cortes and the conquest of the Aztecs.
Not really.
Russia’s view of the world, “Russia Meir” has not changed in hundreds of years.
The whole Communist era was just a failed moralistic cover for an imperialistic policy of domination by the Ruskie’s.
There has been no real change in Russian outlook and ambitions from Czar Nicholas, to Stalin, to Putin.
All want a warm water Naval Base, and to cow Eastern Europe, and Central Asia.
If forced to guess, I think the current Ukraine war settles with Russian control of Sebastopol, and their maintenance of a naval base, there.
Wrong. Both countries desperately wanted a way out of the crisis before something unexpected happened & a nuclear war ensued. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. Maybe there's a cooler head somewhere in DC, but with the doddering old fool in the White House yelling at the top of his lungs every day, I have grave doubts.
They failed in their primary objective which was not missiles in Turkey, it was a Russian nuclear presence in Cuba. Do you see any real Russian threat in North or South America?
How about us in Europe conversely? So we won that exchange on all fronts, clearly. History makes that absolutely clear.
Hmmmm.
That was not an opinion by the MIL of Russia of that day, as the embarrassment of the Cuban misadventure was one of the pretexts for Kruschev’s forced retirement shortly, thereafter.
Let's assume I completely stipulated to your post, then you still ceded by point that this was not appeasement that we stood up to them for a draw.
That would be incorrect as clearly we won that standoff, but even ceding your point it was not appeasement.
That's why it is so pointless to talk to you guys. You just go round and round and there can never be a resolution nor an understanding with people like you.
Good Lord, man. You're not wrong about Russian imperialism per se, but, if you consider European history as a whole, Russia is LESS malign than most other great powers historically, including our own mother country. Even Sweden was as belligerent as Russia back in the day.
I respectfully disagree with your assessment, but I now thought of something else. The true villian of that crisis was Castro, who did NOT want negotiations, but, rather, war. Yet, the American Left adores him. This is a Catch-22.
Hahah, why would Russia have any threat in South America? Any historical ties there, at all? Geographical ties? LOL, MAN! Throughout 430 years since Columbus to now? Even Cuba was pure political.
Conversely, we have had alliances and treaties and wars etc with western Europe since 1776.
Nice astute analysis Sherlock.
Pence Pummels Putin Apologists!
www.cnbc.com
Absolutely true, and very well stated!
“The Charge if the Light Brigade,” was written regarding fighting in Crimea, which ultimately led to the defeat of Napoleon by Russia and her Allie’s, including England.
But your key word is “historically.”
I would have been as opposed to England’s misadventures in the Boar War as I am to Russia’s in Ukraine, today.
But 1898 is over, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden and France “have been brought to heel,” and it is currently the Russians who are the European menace.
Mike Pence, possible Trump 2024 challenger, slams 'apologists for Putin' in the GOP
Pence did not call out former President Donald Trump or any other Republicans by name in a speech on the one-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
YES!
Absolutely true, and very well stated!
“The Charge if the Light Brigade,” was written regarding fighting in Crimea, which ultimately led to the defeat of Napoleon by Russia and her Allie’s, including England.
But your key word is “historically.”
I would have been as opposed to England’s misadventures in the Boar War as I am to Russia’s in Ukraine, today.
But 1898 is over, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden and France “have been brought to heel,” and it is currently the Russians who are the European menace.
Last edited:
Can you cite any source that Russia “stared us down,” during the crisis?
I find your assessment disagreeable, but even less disagreeable than it is . . . lonely.
Last edited:
Agree mostly, but I think Ukraine and Biden and the establishment, might be the actual problem, and putin had had enough of that on his border.
Kind of like how we should respond to the cartels, fentanyl and China on ours.
I'm not saying I agree with what putin did, I'm saying I can see some of his reasons.
And I'm not comparing burisma to fentanyl, but who knows exactly what all we have going on in Ukraine. Biolabs have been rumored, maybe Russian intelligence knows more than us message board posters do.
I respectfully submit that the true menace to Europe comes from within, not from Russia. To wit, the horrific closing of Dutch farms. To wit, the horrible human rights violations during the "pandemic", although not necessarily as terrible as here in some respects. To wit, prosecutions of unpopular speech with no 1st Amendment safeguards. It goes on and on.
I doubt Putin gave two sh!ts about who was mucking the most in Ukraine, Trump and Gulliani, or Hunter Biden.
Putin wants Sebastopol and needs it as badly as did any Czar. Absent that port, they are left cracking a lot of ice to float a tug boat.
No, it's just that your points are all wrong. You see US actions around the world as noble, well intentioned & always correct, while I see a Pox Americana bringing untold suffering & death across the world. Whatever good the US does is, in my view, vastly outweighed by the millions killed & maimed in all of our military "actions" around the globe. Since you support fighting in Ukraine right down to the last Ukrainian, your part of the problem.
They are threatened by their growing Muslim population from within, clearly. The underbelly of Christendom has always been Muslim (well, since 700 AD).
But recognition of that threat does nothing to balance or negate their other traditional threat: Ivan of the East!
No, he wasn't talking about the Muslims in Europe. (Although that is an issue).
He was referring to the radical left, and Marxists. (Tyrants).
Of course, they are also wholly responsible for the first paragraph as well.
Clearly stated and a consistent thread of thought by leftists, anarchists, socialists, unionists and Marxists/Communists for over a hundred years.
We tend to win wars, and just as the winner gets to write the history of the war(s), so, in the long-haul the winner is recognized as the most efficient killer.
Aye.
We are that!
From the burning of Atlanta in 1864, to the sizzle of Hiroshima, to the napalm of 1960’s, and the Muslims dead by their hundreds of thousands (or whatever).
Might make some folks hesitant to pull off a Pearl Harbor or 911 attack, if they know us as well as you do.
Last edited:
You know that feeling you get when you hear someone talking out of their ass about Mexico? Yeah, that's exxactyly what I get reading that post.
He absolutely would if he thought Russia's existence was in jeopardy.
I didn't read all the posts, but there is next to nothing about the pro-war argument which isn't logically flawed. It's why you (general) use so many straw man arguments to make your "points."
Proof that not all Russians are Orcs. CAUTION: Not for the faint-hearted, or appeaseniks.
www.businessinsider.com
Who this piece of crap was:
www.bbc.com
A Russian officer who brandished the skull of a Ukrainian soldier at a heavy metal concert was shot in an 'execution-style' hit: report
Igor Mangushev, who was filmed last year brandishing the purported skull of a slain Ukrainian soldier, was shot in the head at close range over the weekend.
www.businessinsider.com
Who this piece of crap was:
Notorious Russian nationalist Igor Mangushev shot dead in Ukraine - BBC News
Igor Mangushev was shot in the head and his killing sparks speculation about who was to blame.
www.bbc.com
Last edited:
Geesh. So you don't even grasp how valuable a Russian presence in our hemisphere would be to them or why just logistically and militarily it would be such a huge advantage instead of crossing over oceans and continents to project power?
OK, forget the military. How about say intelligence collection?
Listen. Stop participating in conversations like this one. Find a hobby like painting flowers or get you one of those spinning wheels so you can make clay pottery. Something like that. Stay far away from this stuff. Thanks.
No use in the constant circular arguments SDC. I know you know that historically appeasement is a failed strategy and appeasing Putin by handing him Ukraine is going to accomplish nothing. It is going to be a more dangerous world.
Now consider the benefits of stopping them in Ukraine. We defeat Putin in Ukraine, he is killed or exiled. A new Russian Govt comes in and we have plenty of carrots to offer them. We point at Japan and Germany and say do you want to be like them or continue to cast your lot with China that is on the road to a population collapse with nowhere to expand to feed the population they have? Or you can enjoy all the benefits of US and European alliances in trade, security, global prosperity, and always have a seat at the table for the big decisions? Not to mention all your sanctions lifted?
The way is clear how this plays out with or without Russia. We win. Now be a part of that or be run over by that, but we win.
If Russia is willing to suspend military operations when the US gives them a heads up Biden will be in Ukraine, could we just send Biden there permanently and formalize his current role as acting VP to Zelensky?
Here's our President. The most valuable target the United States has. He is in your war zone. He'll be there at 3 o'clock with zero US military protection. He's going to walk around with your enemies and talk to them about how to kick your ass some more.
Oh, and you're not going to do a damned thing about it.
How about that, Vlad?
Oh, and you're not going to do a damned thing about it.
How about that, Vlad?
Bah ha ha ha. Eat it, Vlade!
Two Germans parked a mangled Russian tank in front of the Russian embassy in Berlin as an anniversary gift
- A ruined Russian tank has been dumped outside the country's embassy in Berlin.
- The project was organized by two German artist-activists with the help of Ukraine's MOD.
- The rusted heap appeared as a vivid symbol on the anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
What’s the point of having a vastly superior army if you don’t use it to defy his bluffs?
Is it because you’d get nuked?
Do you see yet why your circular logic is so annoying to people who think?
