The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[LOL_Man]

The entire focus of the United States military for half a century was to engage Russia in a land war in Europe. Day in and day out that is what the singular focus was. The hell we would unleash on Russia and the familiarity with which we would execute it would be breathtaking.

We defeated the entire Iraqi army basically without losing a man. We had some friendly fire mistakes and whatnot, but as far as war goes that was a skunking. If you want to know what a conventional war with Russia would look like then the Iraq war is your best model. They didn't know what hit them. They jumped out of their tanks, refused to fly their planes, and they surrendered in droves because as soon as it got dark they were going to die if they didn't.

 

[CastleRubric]

Intangibles + variables = nearly unlimited. Great job for theater conflict planners. They spend months and years focusing on the next "big one". Usually O-3 though O-5 super-nerds.

Thus far, Russian flaws have been exposed beyond belief.

Its like watching one entity that's forgotten how to fight

And another thats not sure if they truly WANT to fight - and if so - HOW
Thankful for this site as an outlet

PS - we beat the damn Vols today -
hahahhahahahahha

 

[CastleRubric]

This is tragically foolish on all and every count. Conventionally the US alone could cut through the entire Russian army in a few days chopping them up like a garbage disposal. I don't think conventionally Russia is a match for any advanced European country.

Russia has nukes and the advanced means of deploying them or they wouldn't even exist. Russia is not a match for any Western armed European country on a conventional battlefield and we have learned 100% beyond any question the sheer conventional numbers mean nothing in terms of the actual strength of the toothless Russian army's tanks, planes, artillery, and especially the fighting will and capability of their dwindling troops.

Russia is a bully that got punched in the nose and now nobody is afraid of them on the battlefield. They have their nukes to threaten everyone with and make them feel safe, but beyond that they are a global laughing stock.

The United States has the best trained and equipped fighting force to project lethality around the globe than has ever existed on earth. Period. We could decisively defeat the Russian army in Ukraine in a week. NATO would crush Russia and ragdoll them all over Europe.

What almost makes me laugh out loud is to even speak about US pilots compared to their Russian counterparts. Russians won't even get in their airplanes to go up and face US fighters if a shooting war started. We'd own the skies on day 1 and sport a Vietnam-eque 17-1 kill ratio if they did. We could establish a no-fly zone all over Ukraine. Russia wants nothing to do with the US on the sky or on the ground.

Ok then - thanks for your feedback

It seems you may have misunderstood my take
about about the pilots tho - I agree that the US has better pilots

Also believe that our all volunteer professionally trained enlisted corps separated our military fm most others - esp the Soviet era communist conscripts

Out of curiosity - were you ever active duty?

Or do you have any direct professional connections to aerospace/ defense programs?m

When you say that we would readily defeat Russian forces in Ukraine -- are you picturing a convention war only - or are you weighing in the probability of asymmetrical warfare?

When you say we would defeat Russia - it sounds like you are also confirming we would defeat any CHICOM forces as well - yes ?

And that victory you see us obtaining -- is that a new Ukraine that permanently hosts US / NATO forces against future Russian incursion?

Or would Russia lick their wounds and walk away

Would NATO stop there - ?

Or do you think western powers would continue pushing east and seek to subjugate Russia itself?


Im not calling you out - just curious about how you derive the level of confidence you have

You may see something Im overlooking or am blind to --

Honestly - I don't think a Ruso-Chinese Alliance would even NEED to achieve battlefield victory over whatever forces we commit

They could disrupt our domestic power , banking, transportation and GPS systems etc -- and the US would suddenly have a drastically different reality at home - and essentially a new front to fight in the war

Thank you for the feedback!

 

[CastleRubric]

The entire focus of the United States military for half a century was to engage Russia in a land war in Europe. Day in and day out that is what the singular focus was. The hell we would unleash on Russia and the familiarity with which we would execute it would be breathtaking.

We defeated the entire Iraqi army basically without losing a man. We had some friendly fire mistakes and whatnot, but as far as war goes that was a skunking. If you want to know what a conventional war with Russia would look like then the Iraq war is your best model. They didn't know what hit them. They jumped out of their tanks, refused to fly their planes, and they surrendered in droves because as soon as it got dark they were going to die if they didn't.

Russia ?
Or the Soviet Union?

Did we change anything regarding our military posture and scope of mission after the
1989-1991 collapse of the Soviet block?

We absolutely DO have the capability to 'unleash hell' on RUS - I agree

We have a long track record of unleashes hell across the middle east since 9:11

Mostly in the name of 'making the world safe
for democracy' or ensuring women can
vote in Afghanistan, subduing the Taliban, Protecting Kuwait, Greater Israel & hedging in the world of strategic resources


Respectively - you seem to think we
are the same military force - and the same nation - NOW - as we were at Gulf War 1

Two very different periods of history
And very different circumstances in play

Also - we are not as financially stable or united in purpose - and our 20+ years of smart
bombing, dumb bombing, depleted uranium poisoning, regime changing activities
----

Have created a LOT of enemies

IMO - (also Sun Tsu's opinion incidentally) We lack the moral authority or footing to intervene in UKR and thats an important element for
military success

We - our military forces and our gutless corrupt politicians - are really just lackey errand bitches for smarter nations and peoples who have learned to manipulate us to do the
ugly / bad cop work that largely benefits THEM

Tell me more about how our Cold War era strategic footprint and preparations (1945-1991) -- apply to the military forces and doctrines we
now use

Specifically - how the cold war stance would promote battlefield victory

For example - it was well known that we planned to counter a Soviet invasion of Europe:..::by detonating air burst level nuclear weapons against the numerical superiority of
advancing Soviet armor and troops

The Fulda Gap, right?

Army had Lance and Pershing missiles devoted to that purpose

Air Force had the GLCM units as well

And we hoped like hell it didn't escalate to bigger weapons and wider targets

Those scenarios still apply?

Not calling u out -
Just genuine interested and grateful for the co conversation

AND I honestly hope to learn something new
But I need more actual data fm u

 

[hmt5000]

Russia ?
Or the Soviet Union?

Did we change anything regarding our military posture and scope of mission after the
1989-1991 collapse of the Soviet block?

We absolutely DO have the capability to 'unleash hell' on RUS - I agree

We have a long track record of unleashes hell across the middle east since 9:11

Mostly in the name of 'making the world safe
for democracy' or ensuring women can
vote in Afghanistan, subduing the Taliban, Protecting Kuwait, Greater Israel & hedging in the world of strategic resources


Respectively - you seem to think we
are the same military force - and the same nation - NOW - as we were at Gulf War 1

Two very different periods of history
And very different circumstances in play

Also - we are not as financially stable or united in purpose - and our 20+ years of smart
bombing, dumb bombing, depleted uranium poisoning, regime changing activities
----

Have created a LOT of enemies

IMO - (also Sun Tsu's opinion incidentally) We lack the moral authority or footing to intervene in UKR and thats an important element for
military success

We - our military forces and our gutless corrupt politicians - are really just lackey errand bitches for smarter nations and peoples who have learned to manipulate us to do the
ugly / bad cop work that largely benefits THEM

Tell me more about how our Cold War era strategic footprint and preparations (1945-1991) -- apply to the military forces and doctrines we
now use

Specifically - how the cold war stance would promote battlefield victory

For example - it was well known that we planned to counter a Soviet invasion of Europe:..::by detonating air burst level nuclear weapons against the numerical superiority of
advancing Soviet armor and troops

The Fulda Gap, right?

Army had Lance and Pershing missiles devoted to that purpose

Air Force had the GLCM units as well

And we hoped like hell it didn't escalate to bigger weapons and wider targets

Those scenarios still apply?

Not calling u out -
Just genuine interested and grateful for the co conversation

AND I honestly hope to learn something new
But I need more actual data fm u

Yep. We don't have the artillery or tanks we used to have. We have burned through our stocks of shells and rockets and are getting stocks from Israel and South Korea to send to Ukraine.... Not sure what people think we will use if China or Iran break out and we've already drained our stockpiles in those theatres. Air superiority has been greatly overlooked. Russia has a air defence system that can shoot down most of planes and missiles. We aren't going to be able to just fly around and bomb stuff.

I do think we would still dog walk Russia in a fight but people that think it'd be like Iraq aren't looking at the total war. Lots of Russians are wanting cyber attacks on the US and UK right now for supplying what we have. They want our lights turned off and the stock market shutdown. People seem to gloss over how devastating this would be to the economy that is already weak.

JMO.

 

[LOL_Man]

Out of curiosity - were you ever active duty?

Or do you have any direct professional connections to aerospace/ defense programs?

Yes. and yes a lifetime's worth. Not sure why that matters so please don't troll for personal information as I do not want anything I post to in any way be seen as a reflection on any military branch as they are my own, only. I don't want the online code of conduct to be invoked by my admission of service. I should be seen as a generic poster with no particular affiliation to any military branch either directly or indirectly. My opinions are my own and I'd like to think I earned them.

 

[Wildcats1st]

I don’t care what he knows. I have him on ignore. I simply can’t abide anyone who is anti-American. We’re all in this together and to date we have the country that is dominant on the world scene, not because we take other nations’ lands or oppress their populations but because we evangelize democracy.

On the whole, other nations want what we have and we’re willing to help them get it. We’re not perfect but we sure as hell aren’t a bad country. Our culture mingles easily with other cultures and is quick to adopt facets of others that are beneficial to most everyone. While some may envy and resent our power, most don’t see us as a threat. Only closed societies see us as a threat, but then they see everyone that way.

Me unAmerican? 😂

Where do you clowns come up with this? Americas path of sustain regime change and nation building has america very unamerican right now. To fight wars that don’t involve us isnt protecting American interests. Wanting this to end quickly is in Americas interest. You guys want a protracted drawn out conflict that hopefully buries Putin and Russia. There is a greater chance it ends up in a ww3 scenario. Why do you want to risk it! You want direct conflict with Russia???

 

[Spica Orbit]

The entire focus of the United States military for half a century was to engage Russia in a land war in Europe. Day in and day out that is what the singular focus was. The hell we would unleash on Russia and the familiarity with which we would execute it would be breathtaking.

We defeated the entire Iraqi army basically without losing a man. We had some friendly fire mistakes and whatnot, but as far as war goes that was a skunking. If you want to know what a conventional war with Russia would look like then the Iraq war is your best model. They didn't know what hit them. They jumped out of their tanks, refused to fly their planes, and they surrendered in droves because as soon as it got dark they were going to die if they didn't.

---
Saying that what happened in Gulf War 1 is a model for a US-Russia confrontation is insane. Iraq was a 4th rate power at best. Keep in mind that the US Military hasn't fought a peer/peer opponent since Korea or a continental war since WW2. Even in WW2, US action simply paled in comparison to what happened on the Eastern Front. Read about the battles at Stalingrad, Leningrad, Kursk & most importantly Berlin, they all dwarf anything the US was involved in. Good lord, look at the US Military's history since WW2; Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East, Somalia, Afghanistan, all miserable failures, yet somehow, you think a Russia/US war would be a cakewalk?

Currently, Russia has a fairly large lead in layered air defense, electomagnetic warfare, hypersonics & nuclear weapons. They aren't a bunch of goat herders (You know, those Middle Eastern guys who kicked our behinds) & somebody better realize it before we end up in WW3.

 

[JumperJack]

Ok then - thanks for your feedback

It seems you may have misunderstood my take
about about the pilots tho - I agree that the US has better pilots

Also believe that our all volunteer professionally trained enlisted corps separated our military fm most others - esp the Soviet era communist conscripts

Out of curiosity - were you ever active duty?

Or do you have any direct professional connections to aerospace/ defense programs?m

When you say that we would readily defeat Russian forces in Ukraine -- are you picturing a convention war only - or are you weighing in the probability of asymmetrical warfare?

When you say we would defeat Russia - it sounds like you are also confirming we would defeat any CHICOM forces as well - yes ?

And that victory you see us obtaining -- is that a new Ukraine that permanently hosts US / NATO forces against future Russian incursion?

Or would Russia lick their wounds and walk away

Would NATO stop there - ?

Or do you think western powers would continue pushing east and seek to subjugate Russia itself?


Im not calling you out - just curious about how you derive the level of confidence you have

You may see something Im overlooking or am blind to --

Honestly - I don't think a Ruso-Chinese Alliance would even NEED to achieve battlefield victory over whatever forces we commit

They could disrupt our domestic power , banking, transportation and GPS systems etc -- and the US would suddenly have a drastically different reality at home - and essentially a new front to fight in the war

Thank you for the feedback!

Oh dear, Wyvern. You have much to learn. He’s an expert on climate change, military analysis, economics, politics, and much more.

 

[LOL_Man]

Respectively - you seem to think we
are the same military force - and the same nation - NOW - as we were at Gulf War 1

Two very different periods of history
And very different circumstances in play

Also - we are not as financially stable or united in purpose - and our 20+ years of smart
bombing, dumb bombing, depleted uranium poisoning, regime changing activities
----

Have created a LOT of enemies

IMO - (also Sun Tsu's opinion incidentally) We lack the moral authority or footing to intervene in UKR and thats an important element for
military success

We - our military forces and our gutless corrupt politicians - are really just lackey errand bitches for smarter nations and peoples who have learned to manipulate us to do the
ugly / bad cop work that largely benefits THEM

Tell me more about how our Cold War era strategic footprint and preparations (1945-1991) -- apply to the military forces and doctrines we
now use

Specifically - how the cold war stance would promote battlefield victory

For example - it was well known that we planned to counter a Soviet invasion of Europe:..::by detonating air burst level nuclear weapons against the numerical superiority of
advancing Soviet armor and troops

The Fulda Gap, right?

Army had Lance and Pershing missiles devoted to that purpose

Air Force had the GLCM units as well

And we hoped like hell it didn't escalate to bigger weapons and wider targets

Those scenarios still apply?

Not calling u out -
Just genuine interested and grateful for the co conversation

AND I honestly hope to learn something new
But I need more actual data fm u

I don't think you even understand what combat power is or how it is applied? You don't grasp our overwhelming advantages or our logistical capabilities. You certainly don't grasp the current lethality of our military. You throw out poorly fleshed out snippets that fail in their entirety to take into consideration our greatest strengths:

Our cohesion and logistical support. Our ability to fight at night. Our overwhelming economic advantage. The safety and security of our homeland. The natural advantages we have in food production. Our geographical advantages. Our technical superiority. Our ability to ramp up manufacturing. Our internal infrastructure to support that manufacturing in our railways and airports and shipyards.

Then you get to our numbers:

13,300 Aircraft with the highest readiness total on earth.
5500 tanks, 1000 self propelled artillery, 1339 towed artillery, 1716 Rocket artillery, 300k+ other vehicles all with the highest readiness total on earth.
11 Aircraft Carriers, 9 helicopter carriers, 92 destroyers, 22 Corvettes, 68 submarines, all with the highest readiness score on earth.
1,390,000 active duty with 442,000 reserves.

Still, those numbers don't tell the full story. Did you see the abject failure of Russia to fight cohesively thus far in Ukraine? The complete waste of their equipment and manpower?

With us you get the exact opposite. The most trained, lethal, cohesive fighting forces on earth operating in unison perfectly complimenting each other in applying lethality to the enemy. There is no military on earth or in history that can stand in front of the US military and survive. You have to duck and hide and wage asymmetric warfare or be obliterated.

It is an insult to suggest this sorry spectacle of ragtag failure we see being conducted by the Russians is anything but an embarrassment to military service. They've dishonored their nation with their corruption and fumbling complete failures.

 

[LOL_Man]

---
Saying that what happened in Gulf War 1 is a model for a US-Russia confrontation is insane. Iraq was a 4th rate power at best.

Where do you fools come from? Iraq had highly seasoned experienced combat troops and were the 4th largest army in the world when we skunked them. We beat them so bad they hopped out of their tanks and refused to get into them. Their pilots refused to fly.

Know why, because we were engaging them at night from over the horizon. They literally didn't see death coming a lot of the time.

You guys I swear must be a bunch of Ruskies because I cannot imagine real Americans talking like this or being so ignorant of our great history.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Where do you fools come from? Iraq had highly seasoned experienced combat troops and were the 4th largest army in the world when we skunked them. We beat them so bad they hopped out of their tanks and refused to get into them. Their pilots refused to fly.

Know why, because we were engaging them at night from over the horizon. They literally didn't see death coming a lot of the time.

You guys I swear must be a bunch of Ruskies because I cannot imagine real Americans talking like this or being so ignorant of our great history.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[LOL_Man]

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Yeah, like you not realizing the Iraqis had been fighting the Iranians for a decade and were highly experienced and capable, but they had never seen anything like what we unleashed on them. They were not cowards and their experience in conducting a very successful insurgency after we foolishly disbanded their army shows it, but the combat power we applied in perfect unison was something the world had never seen. We unleashed 50 years of warfare planning for a ground campaign in Europe on them.

Read Schwarzkopf or Powell's books then maybe you won't be so anti-American.

 

[Spica Orbit]

With us you get the exact opposite. The most trained, lethal, cohesive fighting forces on earth operating in unison perfectly complimenting each other in applying lethality to the enemy. There is no military on earth or in history that can stand in front of the US military and survive. You have to duck and hide and wage asymmetric warfare or be obliterated.

---
North Vietnam, Somalia & Afghanistan all beg to differ.

Surely you're running some sort of parody account, aren't you?

 

[Spica Orbit]

Yeah, like you not realizing the Iraqis had been fighting the Iranians for a decade and were highly experienced and capable, but they had never seen anything like what we unleashed on them.

---
Iran & Iraq? Yeah, those were the most lethal combat forces on Earth. The 2nd SS Panzer Division (Das Reich) & Georgy Zhukov's 1st Belorussian Front would be cowering in the corner, dreading the Iraqi or Iranian onslaught.

 

[hmt5000]

---
Iran & Iraq? Yeah, those were the most lethal combat forces on Earth. The 2nd SS Panzer Division (Das Reich) & Georgy Zhukov's 1st Belorussian Front would be cowering in the corner, dreading the Iraqi or Iranian onslaught.

I'm actually waiting for these warmongers to start saying "Hitler had it right to invade Russia. We should have waited til he defeated Russia before we got involved". It's that crazy.

 

[LOL_Man]

---
North Vietnam, Somalia & Afghanistan all beg to differ.

Surely you're running some sort of parody account, aren't you?

Now I know you are clueless. Do you have any concept at all of how MILITARILY we defeated the North Vietnamese? We're talking all time military beatdowns in virtually every battle inflicting heavy casualties on the enemy in overwhelming numbers. In the air our kill ratio was 17-1. Again a historic MILITARY victory.

We dropped more bomb tonnage on North Vietnam and Cambodia than was used in all of WWII. Then you had the press broadcasting all that devastation out to the American people. So the American people recoiled in horror, our troops were thus not supported at home, political support eroded, and we "lost" politically a war where we MILITARILY routed the enemy.

Please don't keep insisting on inflicting your historical ignorance on these poor unsuspecting people They are mentally challenged enough already without you furthering their profoundly modest understanding.

 

[LOL_Man]

---
Iran & Iraq? Yeah, those were the most lethal combat forces on Earth. The 2nd SS Panzer Division (Das Reich) & Georgy Zhukov's 1st Belorussian Front would be cowering in the corner, dreading the Iraqi or Iranian onslaught.

How's your Russian buddies looking in Ukraine, comrade?

 

[Catemus]

Yep. We don't have the artillery or tanks we used to have. We have burned through our stocks of shells and rockets and are getting stocks from Israel and South Korea to send to Ukraine.... Not sure what people think we will use if China or Iran break out and we've already drained our stockpiles in those theatres. Air superiority has been greatly overlooked. Russia has a air defence system that can shoot down most of planes and missiles. We aren't going to be able to just fly around and bomb stuff.

I do think we would still dog walk Russia in a fight but people that think it'd be like Iraq aren't looking at the total war. Lots of Russians are wanting cyber attacks on the US and UK right now for supplying what we have. They want our lights turned off and the stock market shutdown. People seem to gloss over how devastating this would be to the economy that is already weak.

JMO.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. The HIMARS that we sent to Ukraine, and which has astounded the Russians, are surplus and outdated stocks. Our new HIMARS are top secret and have technology that makes them much more efficient than the ones we sold to Ukraine.

We have not sent a single tank. We have promised them 31 of our Abrams, but they are being built specifically for the Ukrainians and don’t have the uranium armor plating and other top secret technology. They won’t be available for two years.

Where in the hell did you hear that we’re running out of shells and rockets? Tass? Izvestia? Putin’s wish list? LOL Nothing that we’ve sent has even dented our supplies. We pressured Israel and South Korea to contribute ammunition because they weren’t sending anything else.

Russia has just two types of air defense missile systems, the S300 and S400. Ukraine has the S300 but not the S400. The latter was promoted by Russia as “the best in the world” (for military sales) but Ukraine’s attacks on bridges, oil depots and military airports in Crimea and Russia proper testify to its vulnerabilities.

THE S-400 MYTH: WHY RUSSIA’S AIR DEFENSE PROWESS IS EXAGGERATED

Russia's S-400 is widely touted as the best air defense system in the world, but is that really true? Let's dive into it.

www.sandboxx.us

You and the other appeaseniks should really pause and think before you type out blather you seem incapable of resisting. You wouldn’t look so foolish.

 

[hmt5000]

You don’t know what you’re talking about. The HIMARS that we sent to Ukraine, and which has astounded the Russians, are surplus and outdated stocks. Our new HIMARS are top secret and have technology that makes them much more efficient than the ones we sold to Ukraine.

We have not sent a single tank. We have promised them 31 of our Abrams, but they are being built specifically for the Ukrainians and don’t have the uranium armor plating and other top secret technology. They won’t be available for two years.

Where in the hell did you hear that we’re running out of shells and rockets? Tass? Izvestia? Putin’s wish list? LOL Nothing that we’ve sent has even dented our supplies. We pressured Israel and South Korea to contribute ammunition because they weren’t sending anything else.

Russia has just two types of air defense missile systems, the S300 and S400. Ukraine has the S300 but not the S400. The latter was promoted by Russia as “the best in the world” (for military sales) but Ukraine’s attacks on bridges, oil depots and military airports in Crimea and Russia proper testify to its vulnerabilities.

THE S-400 MYTH: WHY RUSSIA’S AIR DEFENSE PROWESS IS EXAGGERATED

Russia's S-400 is widely touted as the best air defense system in the world, but is that really true? Let's dive into it.

www.sandboxx.us

You and the other appeaseniks should really pause and think before you type out blather you seem incapable of resisting. You wouldn’t look so foolish.

I got that from Col Douglas Macgregor and others. Israel gave back "our" staged munitions... Israel still hasn't sent any of their stuff because they don't want to get involved with Ukraine for obvious political reasons that we have to pretend doesn't exist. SK is similar but willing. SK is sending stockpiled munitions they had saved for a war with NK and China... yea!

Nato generals and US general have stated that Ukraine is using rockets and shells faster than NATO's, not just the US, ability to resupply them.






Here are 2 more sources that vhcat keeps saying I don't provide.

 

[The-Hack]

Iraq had highly seasoned experienced combat troops and were the 4th largest army in the world when we skunked them.

And you’ve skunked those who disagree with you in this thread.

Comparing conventional warfare against the shell of the Russian military still extant, with our struggles against insurgent warriors in Viet Nam, and Afghanistan doesn’t wash. There is no scenario where we would attempt to capture and hold the Russian Federation and allow them to wage an asymmetric, prolonged, guerrilla-styled warfare against our occupation forces.

The conventional tale of the Ukraine war was cemented in it’s first week: the 70 kilometer, week-long traffic jam the Russians encountered from implementation of Key Stone Cop-like logistics, would have been a seventy-kilometer killing field against American air resources.

It’s been a year, and the Ukrainians still have an Air Force, have destroyed between 40 to 50 percent of effective Russian tanks and APC’s, whilst (today) facing an estimated 97 percent of the total Russian military within those areas still occupied by the Russians.

Were Russia to suddenly face an air power with thousands of fourth and fifth generation aircraft, tens-of-thousands of smart and frangible munitions, the world’s premier Heavy battle tanks, etc., etc., it would be a quick win on any conceivable conventional battle field.

They would get in some licks, throw a few conventionally armed hyper-sonic missiles, but they have very limited resources of these, and they would no more turn the tide against a force 20 times more prepared than the Ukrainian force that has largely defeated them to date, facing the same attacks.

The Ukrainians are begging for F-16’s, and will likely get them. And these planes will likely balance the air forces involved, or give the air advantage to the Ukrainians.

But the F-16 is a 45 year old platform, which we have rendered obsolete with generational upgrades. The Russians and Chinese have some more advanced aircraft, but even their best and newest have performed poorly against Ukrainian Soviet era air resources.

 

[The-Hack]

How's your Russian buddies looking in Ukraine, comrade?

Drunk, fat, and stupid is no way to win a war!

Drunk Russian soldier beats commander to death aboard military train

A Russian staff sergeant allegedly attacked a captain aboard a military train in the Chelyabinsk region and beat him to death in a drunken rage.

nypost.com

 

[Spica Orbit]

Now I know you are clueless. Do you have any concept at all of how MILITARILY we defeated the North Vietnamese? We're talking all time military beatdowns in virtually every battle inflicting heavy casualties on the enemy in overwhelming numbers. In the air our kill ratio was 17-1. Again a historic MILITARY victory.

We dropped more bomb tonnage on North Vietnam and Cambodia than was used in all of WWII. Then you had the press broadcasting all that devastation out to the American people. So the American people recoiled in horror, our troops were thus not supported at home, political support eroded, and we "lost" politically a war where we MILITARILY routed the enemy.

Please don't keep insisting on inflicting your historical ignorance on these poor unsuspecting people They are mentally challenged enough already without you furthering their profoundly modest understanding.

---
Parody account or not, this may be the single most astoundingly stupid thing I've read on this site & considering this site, that's really saying something. You do realize that political will & military power go hand in hand, don't you? You can drop all of the bombs you want, but if you don't have the political will to win, then you've lost. And the US lost in Vietnam.....badly.

 

[hmt5000]

And you’ve skunked those who disagree with you in this thread.

Comparing conventional warfare against the shell of the Russian military still extant, with our struggles against insurgent warriors in Viet Nam, and Afghanistan doesn’t wash. There is no scenario where we would attempt to capture and hold the Russian Federation and allow them to wage an asymmetric, prolonged, guerrilla-styled warfare against our occupation forces.

The conventional tale of the Ukraine war was cemented in it’s first week: the 70 kilometer, week-long traffic jam the Russians encountered from implementation of Key Stone Cop-like logistics, would have been a seventy-kilometer killing field against American air resources.

It’s been a year, and the Ukrainians still have an Air Force, have destroyed between 40 to 50 percent of effective Russian tanks and APC’s, whilst (today) facing an estimated 97 percent of the total Russian military within those areas still occupied by the Russians.

Were Russia to suddenly face an air power with thousands of fourth and fifth generation aircraft, tens-of-thousands of smart and frangible munitions, the world’s premier Heavy battle tanks, etc., etc., it would be a quick win on any conceivable conventional battle field.

They would get in some licks, throw a few conventionally armed hyper-sonic missiles, but they have very limited resources of these, and they would no more turn the tide against a force 20 times more prepared than the Ukrainian force that has largely defeated them to date, facing the same attacks.

The Ukrainians are begging for F-16’s, and will likely get them. And these planes will likely balance the air forces involved, or give the air advantage to the Ukrainians.

But the F-16 is a 45 year old platform, which we have rendered obsolete with generational upgrades. The Russians and Chinese have some more advanced aircraft, but even their best and newest have performed poorly against Ukrainian Soviet era air resources.

But the F-16 is a 45 year old platform, which we have rendered obsolete with generational upgrades. The Russians and Chinese have some more advanced aircraft, but even their best and newest have performed poorly against Ukrainian Soviet era air resources.

I think what people are underestimating, is that that air defense system will shoot down our jets and helicopters at a rate not seen since Korea. It won't be a couple choppers getting shot down in a year and a jet crashing on its own if we try to invade Russia. And then we do have to consider nukes which everyone wants to pretend just doesn't exist.

we also have to consider that Ukraine is greatly overstating what they've killed or destroyed because their aid is directly tied to their ability to keep fighting. For instance, it is greatly reported that Ukraine has more tanks and apc now than when the war started. It is also widely accepted that Ukraine is begging for tanks and apc's. Those 2 facts don't add up. Sure they may want some new stuff for specific reasons but their head general, Zaluzhny, said that if he doesn't get 300 tanks and like 1000 apc's, that they would lose this war. That is the big dog of Ukraine's military saying that.

And then there is the fact that the Leopard 1 tanks Ukraine is getting don't have any ammo for them. They have been mothballed for decades and nobody in Europe uses it anymore and there probably aren't 100 shells on the entire continent... and nobody even makes that size shell anymore so a new production line would need to be made just for Ukraine... and that hasn't happened yet.

 

[The-Hack]

we also have to consider that Ukraine is greatly overstating what they've killed or destroyed

True. But they claim to have destroyed 70-80 percent of the presumed Russian numbers.

My use of 40-50 percent of Russian armor destroyed is from Western military analysis:

Russian army has lost up to half of key battle tanks, analysts estimate | Russia | The Guardian

Experts say Moscow has large number of cold-war era models in storage so can continue war in Ukraine for some time

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Catemus]

I got that from Col Douglas Macgregor and others. Israel gave back "our" staged munitions... Israel still hasn't sent any of their stuff because they don't want to get involved with Ukraine for obvious political reasons that we have to pretend doesn't exist. SK is similar but willing. SK is sending stockpiled munitions they had saved for a war with NK and China... yea!

Nato generals and US general have stated that Ukraine is using rockets and shells faster than NATO's, not just the US, ability to resupply them.

View embedded media

View embedded media

Here are 2 more sources that vhcat keeps saying I don't provide.

I got that from Col Douglas Macgregor and others. Israel gave back "our" staged munitions... Israel still hasn't sent any of their stuff because they don't want to get involved with Ukraine for obvious political reasons that we have to pretend doesn't exist. SK is similar but willing. SK is sending stockpiled munitions they had saved for a war with NK and China... yea!

Nato generals and US general have stated that Ukraine is using rockets and shells faster than NATO's, not just the US, ability to resupply them.

View embedded media

View embedded media

Here are 2 more sources that vhcat keeps saying I don't provide.

“We don't have the artillery or tanks we used to have. We have burned through our stocks of shells and rockets and are getting stocks from Israel and South Korea to send to Ukraine....”

So stop straight up lying. What is your goal? To convince someone that being involved is having a negative effect on our military? It isn’t. Maybe make them think you know what you’re talking about? You don’t.

You and others seem to be getting as desperate as Russia’s efforts to take Bakhmut. If y’all haven’t learned by now that Russia and its military are the products of corruption and theft of resources within the administration of V. V. Putin, then you’re not going to and are hopeless.

Your points are very subjective and lends to accusations that your are pro-Putin. You can refuse all day to take an objective view of his invasions of Ukraine and Georgia and interventions in Kosovo, Kazakhstan and Chechnia but it doesn’t change the fact that he is a power-mad dictator who only cares about himself.

 

[The-Hack]

Zaluzhny, said that if he doesn't get 300 tanks and like 1000 apc's, that they would lose this war. That is the big dog of Ukraine's military saying that.

And the Big Dog is going to exaggerate at least a tad in his countries’ best interests.

I think his more rational statements are that to win the war he needs the additional resources.

It is telling, though, that 30 plus percent of Ukrainian territory was recaptured by Ukraine without a single Western tank.

 

[The-Hack]

You can drop all of the bombs you want, but if you don't have the political will to win, then you've lost.

So sayeth Ukraine!!

 

[hmt5000]

“We don't have the artillery or tanks we used to have. We have burned through our stocks of shells and rockets and are getting stocks from Israel and South Korea to send to Ukraine....”

So stop straight up lying. What is your goal? To convince someone that being involved is having a negative effect on our military? It isn’t. Maybe make them think you know what you’re talking about? You don’t.

You and others seem to be getting as desperate as Russia’s efforts to take Bakhmut. If y’all haven’t learned by now that Russia and its military are the products of corruption and theft of resources within the administration of V. V. Putin, then you’re not going to and are hopeless.

Your points are very subjective and lends to accusations that your are pro-Putin. You can refuse all day to take an objective view of his invasions of Ukraine and Georgia and interventions in Kosovo, Kazakhstan and Chechnia but it doesn’t change the fact that he is a power-mad dictator who only cares about himself.

Watch the video dude. It isn't a sham. Litter ali everyone in nato and Europe knows that Ukraine is running through ammo faster than we can produce it without cleaning out our own stocks. And yes... we are weakening ourselves to help a corrupt oligarchy because half the country has been whipped into a frenzy the 6 years about #MuhRussiaCollusion BS. We could have solved this diplomatically in April and "we" told Ukraine to turn down the deal they had with Russia.

The difference is that I know Russia is corrupt but you are unwilling to admit Ukraine is corrupt and losing.

 

[Catemus]

So sayeth Ukraine!!

 

[Spica Orbit]

True. But they claim to have destroyed 70-80 percent of the presumed Russian numbers.

My use of 40-50 percent of Russian armor destroyed is from Western military analysis:

Russian army has lost up to half of key battle tanks, analysts estimate | Russia | The Guardian

Experts say Moscow has large number of cold-war era models in storage so can continue war in Ukraine for some time

amp.theguardian.com

---
"Experts" have led the US down the garden path to defeat for the last 70 years.

 

[Catemus]

Watch the video dude. It isn't a sham. Litter ali everyone in nato and Europe knows that Ukraine is running through ammo faster than we can produce it without cleaning out our own stocks. And yes... we are weakening ourselves to help a corrupt oligarchy because half the country has been whipped into a frenzy the 6 years about #MuhRussiaCollusion BS. We could have solved this diplomatically in April and "we" told Ukraine to turn down the deal they had with Russia.

The difference is that I know Russia is corrupt but you are unwilling to admit Ukraine is corrupt and losing.

No, the difference is that I know Putin is a madman and that Zelensky is a decent family man who chose to stay and fight rather than flee when Russia invaded.

 

[The-Hack]

Have created a LOT of enemies

IMO - (also Sun Tsu's opinion incidentally) We lack the moral authority or footing to intervene in UKR and thats an important element for
military success

Hmmm.

We’ve “created” a new, expanded NATO in the last year, and broadly unified 70 percent of the world’s GDP resources in sanctions against Russia.

And the wise China-man’s quote applies squarely against Russia’s illegal, immoral incursion into Ukraine.

Remember: Russia invaded Ukraine.

Last year you asked me what “our withdrawal strategy” should be in Ukraine.

Again, we have not invaded Ukraine.

A country named “R . . . U . . . S . . . S . . .I . . . A” invaded Ukraine on February 24th, last year.

I love you Castle, but you have to keep better score on the essentials!

 

[The-Hack]

---
"Experts" have led the US down the garden path to defeat for the last 70 years.

That whole collapse of Communist Europe escape your attention?

It was a pretty big deal. Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, East Germany, the Chec State, the Slovakian State, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia . . . .

In 1990 we sat in the Fulda Gap in Western Germany. We have our Heavy’s in Eastern Europe, today, on the Russian border.

We have lost battles and won the civilized world.

 

[JumperJack]

---
Parody account or not, this may be the single most astoundingly stupid thing I've read on this site & considering this site, that's really saying something.

You clearly don’t visit this thread very much.

 

[hmt5000]

In 1990 we sat in the Fulda Gap in Western Germany. We have our Heavy’s in Eastern Europe, today, on the Russian border.

And that is why Russia invaded Ukraine after 8 years of war in the Donbas. We can justify anything if we want to just be the world's bully but if we are to be the symbol for hope and freedom... we can't just be the bully.

 

[hmt5000]

 

[vhcat70]

I'm actually waiting for these warmongers to start saying "Hitler had it right to invade Russia. We should have waited til he defeated Russia before we got involved". It's that crazy.

Thanks to our help, USSR turned the tide against Hitler before we had troop one in Europe. But it was our aid that allowed it. Good analogy to today's Russia War.

 

[hmt5000]

Thanks to our help, USSR turned the tide against Hitler before we had troop one in Europe. But it was our aid that allowed it. Good analogy to today's Russia War.

Isn't it the exact opposite? We are funding the fascist government who was attacking a group based solely on ethnic/nationalistic roots...

We need to agree that the war in Ukraine started in 2014. If we don't admit that then we are just playing make believe.

 

[vhcat70]

I got that from Col Douglas Macgregor and others. Israel gave back "our" staged munitions... Israel still hasn't sent any of their stuff because they don't want to get involved with Ukraine for obvious political reasons that we have to pretend doesn't exist. SK is similar but willing. SK is sending stockpiled munitions they had saved for a war with NK and China... yea!

Nato generals and US general have stated that Ukraine is using rockets and shells faster than NATO's, not just the US, ability to resupply them.

View embedded media

View embedded media

Here are 2 more sources that vhcat keeps saying I don't provide.

It's about time. Thanks.

I hear those videos to say the West was surprised at the volumes needed & supplies in U & at home have run down, but key, very key, supplies are being ramped up. Net, don't hear from that that there's a long term issue.