The modern game dictates that we can't have our bigs chilling in the post clogging the lane.

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Modern basketball is about spreading the floor, having an open lane for cuts and drives, and shooting. I think a major problem with our offense last year besides shooting was having multiple guys on the low block, further clogging the lane. We shouldve played Knox at the 4 and PJ at the 5. That opens up the court and makes us a better shooting team.

This year, our 3 bigs should operate as face up guys and set screens instead of posting up. Our guards historically haven't been the best at feeding the post anyway.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

This isnt the NBA. Dont get it twisted. Didnt a bigman UNC team just win 2 years ago? Is that modern enough.?

 

[BBUK]

OP, you left in a hurry...what gives? You asked for enlightenment...

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

This isnt the NBA. Dont get it twisted. Didnt a bigman UNC team just win 2 years ago? Is that modern enough.?

Not the NBA but the same principles apply. Also with the skillset of our team a free flowing wide open offense is our best option IMO.

 

[Deli owl]

Same principles do not apply. Different rules, different game

 

[HerrosHeroes]

We gonna do it!!!

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Same principles do not apply. Different rules, different game

They applied for Villanova 2 times in the last 3 years.

 

[hotelblue]

They applied for Villanova 2 times in the last 3 years.

that doesn’t make it a rule.

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

that doesn’t make it a rule.

I didnt say it was a rule, just pointing it the principles applied to and worked for Villanova 2 of the last 3 years.

 

[hotelblue]

I didnt say it was a rule, just pointing it the principles applied to and worked for Villanova 2 of the last 3 years.

you said “dictates”

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

you said “dictates”

Yes, if you want to be modern.

 

[Deli owl]

Give me a Shaq and we'll see if we have him facing up.

 

[hotelblue]

Yes, if you want to be modern.

so we are dinosaurs if we clog the lane. the college game is not that modern.

 

[mj2k10]

that doesn’t make it a rule.

It's not, but other than UNC, there aren't a whole lot of teams relying on big guys who've won titles this decade. And that UNC team had a classic small forward (who averaged over 7 three point attempts a game) to go with whatever set of bigs they had in the game.

Villanova is an obvious example of smallball, and a huge key for them has been having versatile forwards who are perimeter threats and yet still have the size to defend in the lane.

Duke in 15, by the end of the season, was playing A LOT of lineups with 3 guards, Winslow, and Okafor. UConn in 14 was mainly playing DeAndre Daniels as a 4. 13 UL was very guard-driven on offense, and their frontcourt was there mainly to defend, rebound, and run the floor (Behanan and Harrell). UK in 12 was a big team, but AD wasn't exactly a classic center, either. UConn in 11 was a 3 guard team, very similar to UL 2 years later. Duke in 10 was a fairly traditional lineup, but they also had their 4 taking over 5 threes a game.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

Unc was way more a classic team than modern. Your SF should be a shooter
Your pf and c stay in the paint,j jus like they basically did. U can win any number of ways in college. It will never be like the NBA,refs dictate it if you want to use tjat word

 

[hotelblue]

well duke was a tall team with zoubek, thomas, singler. btw you can literally trace their success from the moment zoubek started carving out space inside and getting mad rebounds. a lot of those teams milked the clock frequently which is not a wide open game. driving and kicking after holding the ball 25 seconds is not the same thing as the nba style of openness. teams will still probably clog the lane against us and we have shooters.

 

[IL Wildcat]

Modern basketball is about spreading the floor, having an open lane for cuts and drives, and shooting. I think a major problem with our offense last year besides shooting was having multiple guys on the low block, further clogging the lane. We shouldve played Knox at the 4 and PJ at the 5. That opens up the court and makes us a better shooting team.

This year, our 3 bigs should operate as face up guys and set screens instead of posting up. Our guards historically haven't been the best at feeding the post anyway.

I would disagree that the issue with our offense last season was having a guy on the low block. We did a pretty decent job last season, and the season before that as well, moving the ball, cutting, getting open, and getting high percentage shots. But the bottom line last year was that we lacked consistent shooters.

Now, I would agree to some extent that today's game is moving away from multiple big men on the block and toward a more perimeter oriented game- "positionless" is what Calipari has called it. But again, shot making ability (from anywhere on the floor) is key. You can teach guys to lock down on defense (this was another issue we had last season), but it's tough to teach guys in a short amount of time to be shot makers.

Having said all this, and though I agree with the premise of a change in today's game, you still need to have a guy who can play with his back to basket and get the team easy points in the paint. I don't think that will go away. It may not be like 1985 Georgetown where Ewing touched the ball on 80% of possessions, but that ability to score easy points down low is not going away. I do agree that guys like Washington and Travis are unique because they can score facing or back to the basket. Those 2 guys are key this season. That and our shot making ability from guys like Green and Herro will make this team tough to beat.

 

[shutzhund]

Same principles do not apply. Different rules, different game

DIFFERENT REFS.

 

[UK90]

Didnt a bigman UNC team just win 2 years ago? Is that modern enough.?

But that now is the exception more than the rule, as that UNC team was really the only champion since us in 2012 that won it playing with that inside-oriented style. All the other champs since then have won it by emphasizing today's trendy floor-spreadin perimeter-dominant small-ball style.

So, yeah, the OP does have a point. Forcing the defense to spread itself as far as possible seems vital to winning nowadays at both the pro and college level. And that ain't done by clogging the lane with excess bigs. You really only need one low post guy in today's game, having two in at the same time often can hurt more than help.

 

[FlCATFan]

I would disagree that the issue with our offense last season was having a guy on the low block. We did a pretty decent job last season, and the season before that as well, moving the ball, cutting, getting open, and getting high percentage shots. But the bottom line last year was that we lacked consistent shooters.

Now, I would agree to some extent that today's game is moving away from multiple big men on the block and toward a more perimeter oriented game- "positionless" is what Calipari has called it. But again, shot making ability (from anywhere on the floor) is key. You can teach guys to lock down on defense (this was another issue we had last season), but it's tough to teach guys in a short amount of time to be shot makers.

Having said all this, and though I agree with the premise of a change in today's game, you still need to have a guy who can play with his back to basket and get the team easy points in the paint. I don't think that will go away. It may not be like 1985 Georgetown where Ewing touched the ball on 80% of possessions, but that ability to score easy points down low is not going away. I do agree that guys like Washington and Travis are unique because they can score facing or back to the basket. Those 2 guys are key this season. That and our shot making ability from guys like Green and Herro will make this team tough to beat.

I fully agree with this and only add that a traditional big man down low is needed for rebounding on both ends of the court and shot blocking on defense.

 

[UKnCincy]

They applied for Villanova 2 times in the last 3 years.

No, conference realignment happened to Villanova.

Their wins and tournament seeding jumped up dramatically once they were in a weaker conference. They benefited from being a brand name before going to a weaker conference.

 

[Mr_GG]

Yeah, thank goodness we don't have a Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, The Dream, Russell, David Robinson, Duncan, Patrick Ewing, etc. clogging up our offense. We really dodged a bullet in 2012 when Davis chose Illinois over Kentucky. There's no way we would have won a title with Davis posting up looking for jump hook shots.

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Yeah, thank goodness we don't have a Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, The Dream, Russell, David Robinson, Duncan, Patrick Ewing, etc. clogging up our offense. We really dodged a bullet in 2012 when Davis chose Illinois over Kentucky. There's no way we would have won a title with Davis posting up looking for jump hook shots.

Did you really just name a bunch of historically great players like that's what we'reworking with here? Just a FYI, we dont have any of those historically great players. The one active player you listed doesn't play in the paint. There are legends that shot set shots, doesn't mean that the jump shot isnt better suited for todays game.

I'm not sure why you guys are so offended. Its just my opinion that shooting, cutting, and spacing are important in the modern game. If you think we're better post with 2 guys in the post we just have a different opinion.

 

[JonathanW]

OP is stupid to think there is only 1 way to win, or even one best way. How you play should be dictated by the type and skill of the players you have. Last year we didn’t attempt such a low # of 3’s because we couldn’t get open, we attempted so few because we couldn’t make them.

 

[Mr_GG]

Did you really just name a bunch of historically great players like that's what we'reworking with here? Just a FYI, we dont have any of those historically great players. The one active player you listed doesn't play in the paint. There are legends that shot set shots, doesn't mean that the jump shot isnt better suited for todays game.

I'm not sure why you guys are so offended. Its just my opinion that shooting, cutting, and spacing are important in the modern game. If you think we're better post with 2 guys in the post we just have a different opinion.

 

[ConRay9]

Modern basketball is about spreading the floor, having an open lane for cuts and drives, and shooting. I think a major problem with our offense last year besides shooting was having multiple guys on the low block, further clogging the lane. We shouldve played Knox at the 4 and PJ at the 5. That opens up the court and makes us a better shooting team.

This year, our 3 bigs should operate as face up guys and set screens instead of posting up. Our guards historically haven't been the best at feeding the post anyway.

I would disagree that the issue with our offense last season was having a guy on the low block. We did a pretty decent job last season, and the season before that as well, moving the ball, cutting, getting open, and getting high percentage shots. But the bottom line last year was that we lacked consistent shooters.

Now, I would agree to some extent that today's game is moving away from multiple big men on the block and toward a more perimeter oriented game- "positionless" is what Calipari has called it. But again, shot making ability (from anywhere on the floor) is key. You can teach guys to lock down on defense (this was another issue we had last season), but it's tough to teach guys in a short amount of time to be shot makers.

Having said all this, and though I agree with the premise of a change in today's game, you still need to have a guy who can play with his back to basket and get the team easy points in the paint. I don't think that will go away. It may not be like 1985 Georgetown where Ewing touched the ball on 80% of possessions, but that ability to score easy points down low is not going away. I do agree that guys like Washington and Travis are unique because they can score facing or back to the basket. Those 2 guys are key this season. That and our shot making ability from guys like Green and Herro will make this team tough to beat.

There is some truth to that philosophy, but the best teams are typically the most versatile. If we went completely that style we'd be extremely vulnerable to tough and big down low players. You don't want a team that's extremely flawed in an important area such as that.

It comes down to a couple of things:
1. You need shooters most importantly--from the 3 pt line and in face up situations.
2. You need players that play smart without turning it over, and who attack the glass. Controlling the boards is extremely important in today's game. It's a faster tempo today. More rebounds + less turnovers = more possessions. Last year's team was terrible with this. We were outshot nearly every game.
3. You also need versatile defenders that can guard multiple spots at multiple positions.

Cal has done a great job getting players to do the last two parts. A traditional big man is absolutely still important and highly utilized today--especially the elite rebounders among them. It's getting the shooters to go with it where he hasn't been consistent. If you can build a team around those three core philosophies you've got a great team. It just so happens I think this year's team meets all those principles.

 

[Montana81]

I’m not worried about spacing with this team. We shot well in the exhibitions. Granted there’s gonna be off nights but Reid and PJ’s ability to hit the glass will help off set that.

 

[Xception]

If your big man is an unstoppable offense threat then you can do whatever you want, even a defensive shot blocker is fine to park in the paint. What you can’t have is big men that don’t have effective post moves that get taken off the dribble in defense because they’re too slow.

The Kansas big man got exposed on defense which would have been fine if they couldn’t stop him on offense but he was just a put back dunker more or less. I can see our bigs getting exposed against the right opponent, it’s up to Cal to change the lineup quickly and abandon them if it occurs.

 

[Bluesnky]

I don’t think there is much question at this point that the best offensive teams have the personnel to play four-out-one-in. But, in college, power forwards and centers who can really shoot it from 20+ feet are in short supply. And when you sort out the inadequate defenders, you have even fewer who are capable.

Having said that I think we may have that this season.

 

[KDcats11]

UK will be able to space people out and play bully ball this year. That's why I think they'll havet he top rated offense in the country. Guys who can shoot everywhere a la Nova '18 plus guys who can bully you and grab the offensive rebounds a la UNC '17 or UK '14. I don't think the offense this year is guardable. If the defense keeps the intensity we saw in the Bahamas, I like our chances for the title.

 

[WildMoon]

Modern basketball is about spreading the floor, having an open lane for cuts and drives, and shooting. I think a major problem with our offense last year besides shooting was having multiple guys on the low block, further clogging the lane. We shouldve played Knox at the 4 and PJ at the 5. That opens up the court and makes us a better shooting team.

Why do you think this is modern game?

We should of, could of, done something last year...except we just were a terrible shooting team. Just because we shoot, doesn't mean we would have won.

Besides, its not like we ran NR in the paint all the time or SKJ...neither really played all that much, and both were capable of shooting midrange jumper. But they both struggle way beyond that, and lost confidence.

The thing is..i think we ran our best line up with Knox, PJ, and WG last year. 3/4/5... You add SGA and Quade Green (but he was pretty injured). But...no one was high volume and high efficiency....

 

[loublue22]

it's too bad our 2012 team wasn't modern

 

[ProfessorOwl]

People don't realize that the college game literally has different rules then the NBA, so the pace and space strategy that is ascendant in the NBA is not necessarily the best in college.

College has a shorter 3 point arc, no defensive 3 seconds, and a smaller lane. This changes how teams can defend.

Personally I like the balance at the moment. If you want to play two bigs you can. You want to play a stretch 4 or even 5 you can too. Everyone doesn't have to do the same thing.

 

[Kuhldaddy]

you said “dictates”

I’m so wanting to make a joke about that

 

[Deli owl]

I’m so wanting to make a joke about that

Think he forgot an S in there.

 

[JonathanW]

People don't realize that the college game literally has different rules then the NBA, so the pace and space strategy that is ascendant in the NBA is not necessarily the best in college.

College has a shorter 3 point arc, no defensive 3 seconds, and a smaller lane. This changes how teams can defend.

Personally I like the balance at the moment. If you want to play two bigs you can. You want to play a stretch 4 or even 5 you can too. Everyone doesn't have to do the same thing.

Not to mention the NBA players are all just taller, stronger, and better (more skilled).
Two very different games.

 

[qwesley]

It does bother me to see how the game is being called for bigs on both levels which is effecting the game. It takes a very strong, athletic guy to post up these days (we have two this year which is great). It allows teams to play shorter guys at the 4 and even 5. PJ Tucker mauled KAT in the playoffs. Grant Williams was the SEC POY. Like someone above mentioned, your bigs also have to be mobile or they will get abused in PNR.

 

[jrpross]

Not to mention the NBA players are all just taller, stronger, and better (more skilled).
Two very different games.

That makes a big difference. The nba has the 500(ish) best players in the world, some of which have been in the league for quite some time. The NCAA has about 4500 players that are an avaerage of 20 years old, about 50 of which get drafted every year, and some of whom only just started playing ball in high school. A lot of offensive schemes in the pros are pretty complicated whereas, the younger, less talented players in college are going to need a simpler system to be the most effective. Case in point, Chieck Diallo sat the bench in Kansas because he couldn’t keep up with a simple high-low that Self was running.

Not to say that spacing and cutting aren’t great but to say you can’t win with a big man clogging the lane is completely oversimplifying things. Often that can be an easy way to exploit another college team that doesn’t have that. There’s no one right way to run an offense and just because the “modern NBA” is trending a certain way means jack squat to winning in college.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

While I'd prefer McDaniels at the 4 in some universe where he actually comes to UK, if Calipari opens the season featuring a Carey/Wiseman frontline, I'll be more than okay with that experiment. If it fails, insert Whitney at the 4.

I agree that spacing is the key. I often wonder what UK would have looked like in '15 with Lyles at the 4 and Ulis and the twins (or Booker) at the 1-3 spots.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

it's too bad our 2012 team wasn't modern

True. With one starter who might have rivaled Wayne Turner for worst significant perimeter shooter in UK history (MKG) and two others who were mediocre at shooting (Teague and Jones).