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That’s what happens when you don’t start reed and dilly

Not sure about “early.” We’re halfway through the season.
Also, it's not just about "getting it" with Edwards. He doesn't have the athleticism, physical tools, handle, aggression, etc. I knew (and said as much) from the Blue-White game that this dude was soft. Thiero dominated him. And the only time Cal or the announcers get excited about Edwards is when he, on a rare occasion, does something that Adou does in his sleep.
 
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We score 90 a game (tops in the nation). We are a top 10 team. So much fun to watch.

But by all means, let’s screw around with the lineup.
Such a shortsighted view. As if tinkering with the rotation would suddenly cause the team to implode.

It’s about setting up for a run in March. You play the best players as much as you can now so that the team is prepared to make a run. No room for error when it’s one and done.

Loyalty to 5 star players to protect them is insanity. On any other top 20 team Edwards would be the 7th or 8th player based on current skill set and ability to contribute at this level.
 
Which post are you having trouble with?
Took the words right out of my mouth. But cal won’t burn Edward’s confidence as long as we are winning. I’d love to see thiero in his spot if healthy
Considering we just lost a game 4 (now 5) days ago this doesn’t apply. Winning a home game to give us a 1 game winning streak doesn’t erase the previous games loss. And if Edwards is playing with confidence right now I’d hate to see how bad he would play with less confidence. I really like the kid and have been hoping he would pull out of it but he hasn’t even come close. He’s one of Cals guys which is the only reason he’s playing at all now. Anyone else playing as he has been would have been buried on the bench by the walk-ons by early December.
 
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Is there a place where +/- statistics are readily available?
 
At this point it’s just obnoxious and dumb not to start the two. Edwards doesn’t even belong in the second five at this point. Wagner/reeves/dilly/reed/and then Mitchell/bradshaw rotating depending on the other team
 
Again, I get it. You found the number that supports your narrative.

Last 4 games before tonight:
18 points on 7/15 shooting
16 points on 5/8 shooting
14 points on 6/10 shooting
14 points on 6/10 shooting.

Take DJ's name off of it, and the stars, and you'd say those were good games.

But you don't like DJ. So, 15 points on 56% shooting over the last 4 games is suddenly "bad"
As a point guard, personal scoring is normally considered secondary. DJ is FOURTH on the team in assists. That hasn't happened in years for the starting point guard. That's a tell. It reveals that DJ's jumper isn't respected and that he isn't looking to distribute. Even our "ball hog" Dilly has more assists on the year.
 
Considering we just lost a game 4 (now 5) days ago this doesn’t apply. Winning a home game to give us a 1 game winning streak doesn’t erase the previous games loss. And if Edwards is playing with confidence right now I’d hate to see how bad he would play with less confidence. I really like the kid and have been hoping he would pull out of it but he hasn’t even come close. He’s one of Cals guys which is the only reason he’s playing at all now. Anyone else playing as he has been would have been buried on the bench by the walk-ons by early December.
Ok so for starters they are all Cal's guys. He's the coach. he brought them all here and they all play for him. So that comment makes no sense unless you have a variable that separates Edwards from the others. I suspect you will say his 5 stars is the kicker but you can't prove that. So I don't know how you came at that.

Like it or not, we are winning. 13-3 with a top 10 ranking and the best offense in college ball. We are having a very good season (with one bad loss). We didn't lose the games we lost because of Edwards. As a matter of fact I think edwards looked better in the loss to AM.

I have already said I prefer Thiero in his spot but I get why Cal still starts him. He has not played up to his ability but his ceiling is still high. I think everyone is hoping he comes on before march. So until we go through dire straights and Edwards starts costing us games I suspect there will be no changes to the lineup.
 
Such a shortsighted view. As if tinkering with the rotation would suddenly cause the team to implode.

It’s about setting up for a run in March. You play the best players as much as you can now so that the team is prepared to make a run. No room for error when it’s one and done.

Loyalty to 5 star players to protect them is insanity. On any other top 20 team Edwards would be the 7th or 8th player based on current skill set and ability to contribute at this level.
I'd prefer thiero in edwards spot but he is not healthy. Burks is not ready. So edwards keeps his spot. Also if you think I am shortsighted for implying the team would implode if we made a change then I can also say you are shortsighted for implying that the team would elevate. We don't know what will happen if a change is made........but we do know we are pretty damn good with the lineup the way it is. We score 90 a game. you think maybe we could up it to 94 if we swapped the lineup? I don't. It's splitting hairs.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it
 
Again, these dudes are ultimately just defending Cal starting DJ (and Justin).

If you show them how Reed and Dilly are lottery picks on most mock drafts, while Wagner is either late first round or second - they dismiss that. If you show them actual statistics, efficiency ratings, how DJ is the worst defender on the team in terms of opponents' FG% - they dismiss that too. I've had to ignore three more poster tonight (who may all be the same person?) because it's just futile discussing these things with them.

You're right (as you were about Wheeler - with these same dudes taking up for him then) - DJ is the 4th best guard on this team. And if his 3FG% drops below 30 - and it likely will soon - I'm not sure which NBA team wants to use a first or second-round pick on him.
No clue how you could have watched this team all year and think Wagner isn’t good enough to be the starting PG. Edwards on the other hand has been terrible, I’ve hoped he would turn it around but it hasn’t happened. Adou would be my favorite to start there but if he can’t go Reed would be good. Maybe there is even a tiny chance that Justin coming off the bench does something good for him.
 
As soon as Cal moves Edwards out of the starting lineup (it’s going to have to happen, it’s inevitable) I’m sure you guys that think Cal is doing the right thing by starting him right now will jump on board with moving him out of the starting lineup.

Essentially for some of you there’s not a decision that Cal makes that’s wrong. That’s what this boils down to. It’s fine, just say that.

I am right there at that point where I would agree with Cal at this point and agree if he changed it up in the next couple games.

I don't mind him starting, because it doesn't mean anything. He will have to get some minutes and since UNC-W, he's getting 19 MPG. I'd argue the 4 minutes at the beginning of each half are probably the least consequential of the game. His numbers will take a big hit when Thiero comes back. I still think he could turn his season around and benching him or only giving him 8 MPG will kill any chance of that.

It will be telling what happens against UGA as that will be the first team we'll play in the SEC that doesn't have imposing wings and stellar rebounding, which also justifies playing Edwards a little more than usual.

I don't know that it's hurt us so far for the payoff of a turnaround to not be worth the long leash.
 
I like Edwards' potential but right now he isn't one of our top TWO options at any position he can play. At the three we are simply better with Reeves and two of Sheppard, Wagner, and Dillingham(or even all 3 together) or with Thiero. So Edwards is mayby our 5th best option at the 3 spot.

At the 4 he is clearly behind Mitchell and Thiero. So why is he still starting?

If a guy is worth 8 mpg at most, then it's just stupid to have that 8 mpg being the start of each half. There is a reason we start halves badly; we're not putting one of our best line-ups on the floor to start each half.

ps: the stuff about how it doesn't matter who starts, just the minutes, is idiocy. When it's tournament time getting behind early puts pressure on your team and makes a loss more likely. The "why change the line-up now when we are winning" is equally stupid. As if removing the team's 8th or 9th best player from the starting line-up and replacing him with one of our two best players, who are both now coming off the bench, would destroy the team. Please come up with a better argument for him still starting.

And it's not doing Edwards any favors. The draft projections are always lagging and he has already lost is chance to become a 1st round pick next year. Second round picks are not guaranteed money and he might not even be a second round pick. If he was a second round pick next draft that would probably not be a good thing for him since he has no chance of being on an NBA roster next year or of starting for a G League team. So he will either make a terrible mistake, come back to UK next year, or enter the transfer portal. That all is the case whether he continues to start or comes off the bench.
 
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The beginning of the half is the least consequential timeframe in a basketball game imo.
That might be true for games played now but at tourney time this is simply not true. Getting behind to start halves at tourney time causes extra pressure on the players making them more likely to choke. I don't have the time or ability to do this but I bet if you looked at all games where a team opens up a 5 point lead to start a half and all games where a team opens up the half by getting outscored by 5 points and compare them the team that starts out better will win a much higher & of the games. Since I DO NOT have the stats to prove what I just suggested, it is also just my opinion. I'll just sum up by saying, imo, there is only one situation when a coach should not start his 5 best players...when 2 or more of the best five play only one position and it's the same position.
 
I'm not trolling. What you suggest is the exact opposite of what I think. The beginning of the half is the least consequential timeframe in a basketball game imo.
What an absolutely absurd thing to say. What's next, the sun rises in the west, and men can have babies?
 
Ok so for starters they are all Cal's guys. He's the coach. he brought them all here and they all play for him. So that comment makes no sense unless you have a variable that separates Edwards from the others. I suspect you will say his 5 stars is the kicker but you can't prove that. So I don't know how you came at that.

Like it or not, we are winning. 13-3 with a top 10 ranking and the best offense in college ball. We are having a very good season (with one bad loss). We didn't lose the games we lost because of Edwards. As a matter of fact I think edwards looked better in the loss to AM.

I have already said I prefer Thiero in his spot but I get why Cal still starts him. He has not played up to his ability but his ceiling is still high. I think everyone is hoping he comes on before march. So until we go through dire straights and Edwards starts costing us games I suspect there will be no changes to the lineup.
They are all Cals guys….LMAO!!! Bless your heart. You really believe that don’t you!!!!! Star rating, hype, draft potential =long leash. Less stars, no hype, no draft potential =no leash. Some will argue that’s the way it should be and I agree in the very early part of the season. When you are already halfway through the regular season however it’s time re-evaluate based on actual productivity and improvement from the beginning of the year.

Burks didn’t light the world on fire but in his early season play he was a pleasant surprise to most of us while logging 11 minutes/game and showed a lot of potential. Since then he’s played a total of 20 minutes in 9 games with 11 of those coming in one game against Illinois St. Edwards, sadly, has been a disappointment to us all for the duration of the season. While his minutes have dropped by almost 9/game he still getting the opportunity to play and prove his worth to the team. We don’t really need Edwards or Burks to score with the other options we have so based on what we have seen from Edwards regarding rebounding, defending, and overall floor energy, one has to wonder if given 18/game if Burks could not offer us more? We know however we will never find out. But they both play for the same guy, right?
 
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They are all Cals guys….LMAO!!! Bless your heart. You really believe that don’t you!!!!! Star rating, hype, draft potential =long leash. Less stars, no hype, no draft potential =no leash. Some will argue that’s the way it should be and I agree in the very early part of the season. When you are already halfway through the regular season however it’s time re-evaluate based on actual productivity and improvement from the beginning of the year.

Burks didn’t light the world on fire but in his early season play he was a pleasant surprise to most of us while logging 11 minutes/game and showed a lot of potential. Since then he’s played a total of 20 minutes in 9 games with 11 of those coming in one game against Illinois St. Edwards, sadly, has been a disappointment to us all for the duration of the season. While his minutes have dropped by almost 9/game he still getting the opportunity to play and prove his worth to the team. We don’t really need Edwards or Burks to score with the other options we have so based on what we have seen from Edwards regarding rebounding, defending, and overall floor energy, one has to wonder if given 18/game if Burks could not offer us more? We know however we will never find out. But they both play for the same guy, right?
Edwards > Burks.

They both should return next year
 
Edwards > Burks.

They both should return next year
Individually you may be correct, but Burks can probably add more to this team that what Edwards is doing at this stage. Again we will never know and as a fan base we can only hope that Edwards breaks through. Regardless of his production/play he will continue getting his minutes all the way until we are bounced in March. Be shocked if he returns to UK for a 2nd year either way.
 
That might be true for games played now but at tourney time this is simply not true. Getting behind to start halves at tourney time causes extra pressure on the players making them more likely to choke. I don't have the time or ability to do this but I bet if you looked at all games where a team opens up a 5 point lead to start a half and all games where a team opens up the half by getting outscored by 5 points and compare them the team that starts out better will win a much higher & of the games. Since I DO NOT have the stats to prove what I just suggested, it is also just my opinion. I'll just sum up by saying, imo, there is only one situation when a coach should not start his 5 best players...when 2 or more of the best five play only one position and it's the same position.

I would agree with that. We also aren't getting down drastically at the beginning of every half with Edwards. I don't consider that an Edwards-exclusive issue either. Notice this OP didn't post this until the second half, as we were good in the first 4-5 min of the first half.

By tourney time or even soon here in SEC play, I think Edwards either just won't be getting significant minutes at all, or will have, hopefully, turned the corner.
 
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Everyone has a opinion - this is why it’s important to start Wagner - Sheppard- Reeves - Mitchell - Oleynso
Because Cal has stupid and stubborn rules - like whoever starts must start 2nd half
Anyone who has played or knows basketball knows first 5 minutes of 2nd half are most important (see last night)
That’s why it’s vital to have 5 best on floor
Dillingham is a true Vinnie Johnson and is better coming off bench
 
Edwards is gone after this season, which is a shame.

Unless he turns it on at the end (which I think he could), then his time here was a bit of a waste.

How come guys like this cannot accept that they need more time and return for a second year?

It was Livingston last year. This year it will be Edwards.

It’s really a shame that they won’t come back and try to improve. Especially now that they can make some serious NIL money in college.
 
Edwards is gone after this season, which is a shame.
That was the pre-season expectation. But now if he is gone he will be sitting on a G League bench or playing in college for another team. So, it really doesn't matter much for his future whether or not he starts this year or how many minutes. His pro future will depend on whether or not he puts in the work to improve himself in skill and strength and conditioning.
 
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As soon as Cal moves Edwards out of the starting lineup (it’s going to have to happen, it’s inevitable) I’m sure you guys that think Cal is doing the right thing by starting him right now will jump on board with moving him out of the starting lineup.

Essentially for some of you there’s not a decision that Cal makes that’s wrong. That’s what this boils down to. It’s fine, just say that.
and ccc people think Cal makes no right decision
 
STL_Cat said:

Essentially for some of you there’s not a decision that Cal makes that’s wrong. That’s what this boils down to. It’s fine, just say that.


and ccc people think Cal makes no right decision

What we have here is a case of two people who probably have diametrically opposing views and yet are somehow both right.
 
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That was the pre-season expectation. But now if he is gone he will be sitting on a G League bench or playing in college for another team. So, it really doesn't matter much for his future whether or not he starts this year or how many minutes. His pro future will depend on whether or not he puts in the work to improve himself in skill and strength and conditioning.
He’ll get drafted on potential, unfortunately.

And that’s all that matters to most of these guys.

Get to the NBA as quickly as possible.
 
He’ll get drafted on potential, unfortunately.

And that’s all that matters to most of these guys.

Get to the NBA as quickly as possible.
The problem is he hasn't shown that potential yet this year. Where are the high flying dunks and blocks and brilliant passes or brilliant offensive moves? His highlight film for this year would be the few threes he's made and a couple offensive rebounds he put in off the glass. He doesn't appear to have great leaping ability or explosiveness. Those are the things that get you drafted on potential. When a guy doesn't have those things
and can't shoot or handle or defend particularly well that player doesn't even get a 2nd round pick unless he's over 7' tall. I hope he gets the appropriate NBA feedback and doesn't try to become a pro next year, even if it means transferring to a rival, because he seems like good kid and I hope he has success. No matter what he was considered in high school he is no longer a one and done and his success will depend on him putting in the work to make himself a better player and he wouldn't be able to earn much playing time on a G League team next year.
 
Reed is easily my favorite player in the last 5-8 years but the lineup needs to stay the same. Anyone that suggest DJ not starting hasn’t watched much and it shows.
 
Edwards is gone after this season, which is a shame.

Unless he turns it on at the end (which I think he could), then his time here was a bit of a waste.

How come guys like this cannot accept that they need more time and return for a second year?

It was Livingston last year. This year it will be Edwards.

It’s really a shame that they won’t come back and try to improve. Especially now that they can make some serious NIL money in college.
It’s not a shame tbh because I don’t see any semblance of a player who can positively impact the game right now in edwards. I was expecting going into the season that he would be the difference maker. We have studs in the back court we needed that legit wing but he don’t have it.
 
Anyone who has played or knows basketball knows first 5 minutes of 2nd half are most important (see last night)

how is last night ‘proof’ of this? We ‘lost that period and handily won the game.

It’s absurd that you think every 5 minute period after that isn’t more important.
 
Hey now. I like your posts. You don’t agree with Kenpom?
I'm not accusing you or anyone else of only liking stats that fit their narrative, but the '22 team was 5th in offensive efficiency on Kenpom and those board swore up and down those analytics were trash and that the offense was actually horrible. Now many of those same posters are praising the Kenpom stats that show they're right about DJ. Funny how that works.
 
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A lot of people in this thread are acting like DJ and Edwards never come out of the game. Anyone complaining about DJ being the starting PG should take a look at the actual minutes played over the last five games. Sheppard is getting 63% of the minutes at PG. Neither DJ or Edwards is first in minutes at any position. The fact is neither Sheppard or Dillingham can play 40 minutes a game. Sheppard is playing the most minutes at PG and Dillingham the most at SG.

I'm not really sure what people want to see? 35 minutes every game for Sheppard and Dillingham and 5-10 for DJ and Edwards? Sounds like a real good way to run Sheppard and Dillingham into the ground come March.

Screenshot-2024-01-18-at-11-41-15-PM.png
 
I wouldn’t include Wagner. He gets down hill better than anyone on the team. And he’s finishing more now. He also hits the outside shot enough that teams are still respecting him. Wagner is a hell of a player. He’s done a great job reeling in his shot selection from high school as well. Seems to have embraced playing with other talented guards. Love the kid.

I hope edwards gets it going. But there’s really no justification for him continuing to start at this point. He has to play however because adou is out. But once adou comes back…i wouldn’t be upset to see his minutes get but back even more.
 
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I don't think he will ever be good enough. He doesn't even show a little potential to give one hope that he could possibly get a lot better. Cal said that Kentucky isn't for everybody and Edwards is a classic example of that statement.
Hopefully he’s like Antoine Walker, Antoine really didn’t turn it on until the SEC tourney his freshmen year I recall.
 
To me,
Right now Edwards is a 4 trying to be made a 3 for the NBA.
This was the exact same thing on last years team with Livingston.
Neither one of them had/ have the skill offensively to play the 3 but they both HAD TO BE groomed towards that position for their potential NBA stock. And in reality, it hurt their stock by showing what they are not skilled at.

Also, IMO.
Livingston played on a team with not alot of skilled basketball players to relieve the pressure on him to score.

Edwards has all kinds of skill around him and I think Edwards' conditioning looks to be very poor (so far) in comparison with other players on the team. The other night, there was a timeout called after about a 3-4 minute run of back and forth action and I noticed as he was walking off the court it looked like he was having an asthma attack he was breathing so hard and was trying to catch his breath!!!! Lax conditioning will affect his foot speed to guard and to get by players and his leg strength will affect his shooting and his lift off the floor. I didn't expect him to be a "below the rim" athlete so far!!!
I also think his game right now is decent for a regular freshman but not for a top-5 player out of high school or for his potential draft stock and I think this pressure to excel has really been messing with his head.
If I was CJC I would switch him and Dilly as starters to get Edwards minutes and rotation aligned with Shepherd who is the teams best passer to help try to get Edwards "started."
My $0.02

LIVINGSTON
22.46.34.20.70.40.40.942.972.230.5
EDWARDS
23.28.64.10.90.90.41.045.968.226.8

 
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