Too much focus on the past and not the present and future.
Serious Discussion: What happened to Indiana?
- Thread starter 502 Wildcat
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I get your point and your right but I also believe the same could be said for many teams.
Timing is everything!
Players changed and no longer wanted to play for a coach with an old school style. By the time Knight was gone IU had lost a lot of luster, kids grew up with them being just another school and no longer was a top option for them. They needed a home run hire to grab some attention and they failed miserably in that area.
Karma at play. Knight and the fanbase that tolerated him are reaping what they sowed.
and these same things may be the downfall of Duke when K retires. You can guarantee that they will hire a K disciple and none of them are good enough to run an elite program. A 3-4 year period of mediocrity and they will lose a fickle fan base.
I think this is the beginning of the answer. Indiana was obsessed with Knight and wouldn't let him go, despite the controversies. In today's PC culture, Knight wouldn't have lasted 2 minutes after being caught on video abusing a player. But they held on to him too long. And from there, bad hires and decisions again and again have followed. Knight is still haunting them, in my opinion. A large portion of their fanbase still think he is the greatest of all time and nobody will ever measure up. I think Knight could be convicted of being a serial killer and some IU fans would still say, "Yeah, but he was a helluva coach!"
I don't think kicking a team when they are down is right guys.
Who am I kidding, it's really fun. IU sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who am I kidding, it's really fun. IU sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you are old enough to remember the Indiana basketball teams from the 70's & 80's like myself. When they took a backseat to no one, including us. Their fall has been kinda amazing in the fact that it has lasted this long, over a quarter of a century. Their demise actually started under Bobby Knight. Knight & his IU teams failed to make the Final Four his last 8 years. Granted it has gotten worse after Knight left. And as far as facilities go, just look at the dumps that Kansas & Duke plays in, & they seem to be doing O.K., Their down fall can't be blamed on anything except coaching. Mike Davis, Kevin Sampson, Tom Crean & Archie Miller. One mediocre coach after another..... The jealous hatred that the IU fans have for UK has no equal. And that includes the UofL fans..... And considering how rotten the IU fans are. Their 27 years of mediocrity couldn't have happened to a more deserving fan base. Here's hoping that they wallow in their misery for another 27 years.
Going to your point - UK tried to go by the letter of the NCAA rule when it came to facilities and accommodations. UK's lodging and facilities were nice, but somewhat pedestrian. However, other schools were building lavish facilities for their players with some living in Taj Mahals, so at that point UK decided to play catch-up and began loading up on the amenities.
This. Bob Knight was allowed to hang around far too long - 6 straight years without getting out of the first weekend. Mike Davis was a disaster who got to hang around too long because of one lucky tournament run. Sampson was a disaster who put them on probation. It's ridiculous that they gave a mediocre coach like Crean 9 years. I thought Archie would succeed but... maybe they've just let their program deteriorate so much that it'll take an elite coach to bring them back. And what elite coach wants to go there?
What do you mean? They are like UT football....all elite coaches want to go there. Bear Bryant would have been raised from the dead to coach UT if he could have.
They've hired 1 good coach since Bob Knight and fired him because of phone calls. Well, they prolly had to fire him because the NCAA puts a greater emphasis on impermissible phone calls than they do academic fraud, buy hookers for players, or straight up buying players.
Kelvin Sampson is a good coach and wouldve had them on the right path. Davis, Crean, and Miller so far have been disasters.
Kelvin Sampson is a good coach and wouldve had them on the right path. Davis, Crean, and Miller so far have been disasters.
What happened to Indiana happened to Nebraska football and UT Football (only UT was just great in the minds of their fans...one championship in 100 years) Firing your coach too quickly....poor hires, and time passes you by. I know we all hate on Rick Pitino but if he had not come along when he did UK could very well have been in the same boat....and then after BCG Calipari saved us again....the wrong hire can bury you....we got lucky twice....
I think with UK, the expectations, as outlandish they can be sometimes, are pretty crystal clear. We put up with 2 years of BCG, Indiana lets Davis and Crean stick around, what, 10+ years? I think that's the difference.
But, in general, Indiana has done a horrible job in their hiring. I don't understand how Mike Davis or Tom Crean even get hired there, even though Crean did a "decent" job.
Have to say that all of the reasons add up over time. I cannot add much to what has already been said, as it is all relevant and pretty much, spot on. From a fan standpoint, I started going to see UK games in 74 - 75 season. My family was solid hoosiers, with my dad and brother the ONLY UK alumni / fans. So it was that I was introduced to the rivalry, and everything I have seen since then was from that starting point.
One of my first conscious memories is asking dad why "that mean man in the red sweater hit Coach Hall upside his head?"
I loathe Indiana basketball, will continue to loathe it until the day I die. I will never forgive nor forget the unmerciful things that have been said, and most of them all totally and completely untrue, about Kentucky University from members of my own family, as well as other Hoosier fans.
Louisville has since supplanted IU in many ways, because the fan base is so dislikable as to be a valid comparison. Maybe even worse these days, because back then, UofL fans were merely knocking at the door before they won the titles under Crum. It's still easy to truly find IU and UofL fans as despicable and loathsome from the Kentucky viewpoint.
I want to see both programs wilt and fade as the years go by. Further irrelevancy, further slide into the abyss. Both fan bases deserve it, utterly deserve it for how they hold themselves and act.
The very fact we have a thread discussing "what happened to Indiana?" is music to my ears. Maybe in another 10, 15 years or so, we can have one on Louisville? I'd be well over 60 by then, maybe it ain't enough time passing by for UofL, but it sure would be great to seriously approach the question, as it stands here today.
May Indiana stay buried, forgotten, consigned to the trash heap and dust bin of mediocrity and the crumbling pages of history. Here's to seeing the same happen with Louisville.
One of my first conscious memories is asking dad why "that mean man in the red sweater hit Coach Hall upside his head?"
I loathe Indiana basketball, will continue to loathe it until the day I die. I will never forgive nor forget the unmerciful things that have been said, and most of them all totally and completely untrue, about Kentucky University from members of my own family, as well as other Hoosier fans.
Louisville has since supplanted IU in many ways, because the fan base is so dislikable as to be a valid comparison. Maybe even worse these days, because back then, UofL fans were merely knocking at the door before they won the titles under Crum. It's still easy to truly find IU and UofL fans as despicable and loathsome from the Kentucky viewpoint.
I want to see both programs wilt and fade as the years go by. Further irrelevancy, further slide into the abyss. Both fan bases deserve it, utterly deserve it for how they hold themselves and act.
The very fact we have a thread discussing "what happened to Indiana?" is music to my ears. Maybe in another 10, 15 years or so, we can have one on Louisville? I'd be well over 60 by then, maybe it ain't enough time passing by for UofL, but it sure would be great to seriously approach the question, as it stands here today.
May Indiana stay buried, forgotten, consigned to the trash heap and dust bin of mediocrity and the crumbling pages of history. Here's to seeing the same happen with Louisville.
Amen, well said. IUsedtobe is already there; we'll see if the NCAA follows through and puts UofL there with them.
this also eeds to be underscored. basically the separation of iu and knight, and i date that around 94-97 began as we overcame them and put them out of their misery. a lot of credit to pitino for that. we took over the series and won a couple titles and they haven’t been close to us since.
Indiana has shot themselves in the foot so to speak with very hire since Sampson. Even he didn’t work out but he was a great coach and recruiter. Take note that Kentucky could be where they are right now or close had it not been for hiring Calipari. You shouldn’t have to think about it much to come to that conclusion. Make no mistake Calipari resurrected a mediocre program. Another hire like Smith or Gillespie and we would be happy to crack the top 25.
Smith stopped recruiting at the end, and it was time for a change, but I don’t think he was mediocre overall. Some Elite 8 appearances, 25+ wins most seasons, did things the right way...Indiana would kill to have a coach with Tubby’s track record right now.
So did Minnesota, Texas Tech, Memphis and High Point. Fast company for Indiana!
Truth.
The game simply passed up Tubby, but he was a solid coach here. Not at Cal's level, but he did have some success.
Funny thing about Sampson. IU fans call him Samscum for drawing IU into NCAA sanctions, yet they decry those very sanctions as meaningless, harmless phone calls that are now legal. So which is it, Loosiers? Was Sampson a great coach who was a victim?
And now Sampson has Houston in the Top Ten. And where is IU? Hilarious.
And now Sampson has Houston in the Top Ten. And where is IU? Hilarious.
Some very good answers here and I will add most players in HS today do not even care about IU because they do not know about the past history of IU. And I hope it stays that way. 
I was there with my dad at 8 years old. After the game I cried and told him, "this is the best day of my life."
i remember the stat that they’re at or under (don’t remember) 60% winning since they beat us in 93-94 when bailey was on the si cover. that was their last great moment besides beating duke. we were dominant the next four years and they became a 9 seed every year and would lose in the first/second round. that didn’t help knight. for if he kept winning there’s no way it would have played out the same way.
Smith won a title, IU hasnt won a title since 87. Smith went to 4 Elite 8's, you have to go back to 87 to find 4 IU elite 8's. Smith never missed the tournament, IU has missed the tournament 7 out of 11 years. Putting Smith and Gillispie in the same sentence is ridiculous, comparing the Smith era to what IU basketball is today is beyond ridiculous.
IU is what happens when you hire a Billy Gillespie a couple times in a row. The difference today between a "blue blood" and everyone else is money, facilities, exposure on ESPN, fans not putting up with being average, and most importantly, its the school that top coaches want to coach at.
I don't know if coaches see it as dream job, Chris Mack didn't. Thankfully this was Coach Cal's dream job. And because it was, we remain near the top every year.
I don't know if coaches see it as dream job, Chris Mack didn't. Thankfully this was Coach Cal's dream job. And because it was, we remain near the top every year.
As others have said, it's a combination of many things.
The biggest is the entire program and fanbase continue to live 35 years in the past. Their gym is plain. Their uniforms are plain. Their fans think they only need to recruit Indiana to be successful. They want every player to be good yet stay 4 years.
After every loss, their boards still have posters saying "Bob Knight wouldn't _______" Bob Knight would've _______" HE'S BEEN GONE DAMN NEAR TWENTY YEARS. Let it go.
The other part is bad hires in Davis, Crean (and likely) Miller. Sampson probably wouldn't have made them ultra elite but would've had them at least as good as Tubby had UK from 98-05.
The final part is hanging onto Knight for so long. Their last decent season was 93-94. He coached there until 2000. The game clearly had passed him by. It was symbolic when our 97 team beat them by 30 in Freedom Hall where we were running up and down bombing 3s and throwing oops while they were setting 50 screens and making 12 passes before shooting 10 footers. .
The biggest is the entire program and fanbase continue to live 35 years in the past. Their gym is plain. Their uniforms are plain. Their fans think they only need to recruit Indiana to be successful. They want every player to be good yet stay 4 years.
After every loss, their boards still have posters saying "Bob Knight wouldn't _______" Bob Knight would've _______" HE'S BEEN GONE DAMN NEAR TWENTY YEARS. Let it go.
The other part is bad hires in Davis, Crean (and likely) Miller. Sampson probably wouldn't have made them ultra elite but would've had them at least as good as Tubby had UK from 98-05.
The final part is hanging onto Knight for so long. Their last decent season was 93-94. He coached there until 2000. The game clearly had passed him by. It was symbolic when our 97 team beat them by 30 in Freedom Hall where we were running up and down bombing 3s and throwing oops while they were setting 50 screens and making 12 passes before shooting 10 footers. .
You're right. When Redneck Bob was in his hey day during the 70's and 80's Joe Hall hung in pretty well against him. Even Sutton had his moments against him. Then Pitino came in and dominated his AZZ. That's when he and IU became irrelevant. The administration tolerated his redneck ways when he was winning but once they became mediocre it was Adios Azzhole an Redneck Bob rode off into the sunset of Lubbock, Texas. YEE HAW!!
Bad coaching hires will absolutely destroy your basketball program. Regardless of how much of a blue blood you are. UNC had Roy Williams willing to leave Kansas to save UNC from their bad hire. Duke after Coach K could very well be Indiana part 2. Cal and UK were a match made in heaven but after he's gone it's back to finding the next great one, in which there are no guarantees. Kansas may end up having to do this sooner rather than later.
Slightly off-topic, Bob Knight is filth and is lucky that Lynn Nance didn't beat him senseless the day he slapped Joe B Hall. The reason he didn't? Joe B Hall is such a good guy that he stopped Nance from doing so.
Slightly off-topic, Bob Knight is filth and is lucky that Lynn Nance didn't beat him senseless the day he slapped Joe B Hall. The reason he didn't? Joe B Hall is such a good guy that he stopped Nance from doing so.
Knight did not create IU, in fact until UNCheat duplicated the feat, for a long time they were the only school to have won two or more titles under multiple coaches. (2 by Branch McCracken, 3 under Knight). But what Knight did do is turn an already successful program into a personality cult, which was allowed to run wild for far too long. When they finally threw out Knight, they lost their identity, such as it was. Combine that with the narrowly focused (regional) recruiting mentioned above and you have the recipe for IU's huge decline.
The money comes in no matter how much they suck so the administration has no reason to really care?
Redneck Bob.
I like that. I like that a lot. Good job, Blouman!!
Redneck Bob.
I refer to him (and have for years) as, quite simply, "corporal".
corporal bobby knight
The "corporal" is basically poking fun of D. Vitale for nick-naming him the General. He's NOT the General. He's a corporal. A despicable human being. End of story.
No capitalization. None. Thus, corporal bobby knight.
He doesn't deserve it.
I love how he's spouted off over the years with the likes of, "I don't have any respect for (John) Wooden" or "I have as little a respect for Joe Hall"......
Well, guess the #$&% what, corporal? I don't have any respect for YOU!!!!! And I know, at least on this board, I'm in good company!
No "bob" as he prefers to be called . . . I shall refer to him as "bobby", which, as we know, is more times than not a little kid's name.
I know, I know. . . there are exceptions.....Bobby Unser, Bobby Kennedy, Bobby Orr, etc. I get it.
Still. He should be known as a kid's name. Not a man's name. And, oh, by the way, have I mentioned that he's a corporal, and NOT a General?
The HUNDREDS of times I've called him "corporal" while living here in Indy.....the looks on the faces of IU fans and their reactions are priceless!
No. I've never come close to fight. Not even remotely. I just tell it like it is.
corporal bobby knight and/or Redneck Bob.
Gotta love it!!!
GO BIG BLUE!!!
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