Round 1 HotelBlue vs. BigBlueFanGA
- Thread starter DraftCat
- Start date
what have you to say about the batting averages, power numbers, fielding and pitching? you keep asking me why i’m even trying to state a case, yet every time i present something you have little if anything to say. i’m still waiting on your sources for your pitching staff being better. you said it was easy to look up. also just the irony of you saying the fielding is only slightly better, when it wasn’t, while in fact it’s the hitting that is much closer. especially when you look at the stats.
A few comments:
For all the talk about GA's lineup being better offensively, Hotel Blue's heart of the order (Mattingly, Snider, Guerrero--assuming each is in his prime) is truly terrifying and IMO, is better than any three GA can put together. I don't care how good Walter Johnson is, those are 3 scary players that will come to the plate 3-4 times a game.
Richie Ashburn is maybe the most criminally underrated player of all time. He belongs in the starting lineup over Dave Winfield ANY and EVERY day of the week.
I like Hotel Blue's ability to manufacture runs. When you are going up against fantastic pitchers, you need to do whatever it takes to get em on, move em over, and bring em home. GA has the best leadoff hitter of all-time on his roster, but Hotel Blue has several guys who could put together a two-run inning without a single ball leaving the infield. Plus, HOFer Tim Raines has a significantly higher career BA than Henderson and more than holds his own in a straight up comparison of leadoff hitters.
Koufax has what is in all likelihood the sickest stuff of all time. For GA to say that Johnson being better than him is not debatable is plainly absurd. Koufax may not be better than Johnson, but saying Johnson is better than Koufax as if it were "case closed" is a reckless boast. That is in no way a knock on the great Johnson. It's just that Koufax was that good.
GA needs to switch Brett and Vaughn in the batting order, STAT.
Hotel Blue needs to put Castillo at the bottom of the order and put the incredible Tim Raines at the top of the lineup.
For all the talk about GA's lineup being better offensively, Hotel Blue's heart of the order (Mattingly, Snider, Guerrero--assuming each is in his prime) is truly terrifying and IMO, is better than any three GA can put together. I don't care how good Walter Johnson is, those are 3 scary players that will come to the plate 3-4 times a game.
Richie Ashburn is maybe the most criminally underrated player of all time. He belongs in the starting lineup over Dave Winfield ANY and EVERY day of the week.
I like Hotel Blue's ability to manufacture runs. When you are going up against fantastic pitchers, you need to do whatever it takes to get em on, move em over, and bring em home. GA has the best leadoff hitter of all-time on his roster, but Hotel Blue has several guys who could put together a two-run inning without a single ball leaving the infield. Plus, HOFer Tim Raines has a significantly higher career BA than Henderson and more than holds his own in a straight up comparison of leadoff hitters.
Koufax has what is in all likelihood the sickest stuff of all time. For GA to say that Johnson being better than him is not debatable is plainly absurd. Koufax may not be better than Johnson, but saying Johnson is better than Koufax as if it were "case closed" is a reckless boast. That is in no way a knock on the great Johnson. It's just that Koufax was that good.
GA needs to switch Brett and Vaughn in the batting order, STAT.
Hotel Blue needs to put Castillo at the bottom of the order and put the incredible Tim Raines at the top of the lineup.
Thanks for the opinion, nicely done. I only say that about Walter because it appears to be the position of most baseball historians. Both were elite pitchers. I have no issue considering Walter and Sandy a push.
Johnson and Koufax is a wash for me. Sure Johnson has better stats, but it was from over 100 years ago and if you put him in Koufax era I personally don’t see him doing better than what Koufax did in his prime.
I’d also take Verlander over Paige by a wide margin, as he did not accomplish anywhere near what Verlander has on an MLB level. I wouldn’t have personally drafted him, as we can only fairly take into account what he did on an MLB level, even though he obviously would have been a star had he got a fair chance to play in his prime.
I totally disagree with you on Paige and I think baseball historians would as well.
I posted the only stats which were available and they were significantly better than Verlander. As I've already said, regardless of you have to take a lot from statements from those who played against him. The Athletic, a well respected publication, ranks him the 10th best player overall.
As far as the Walter Johnson/Sandy Koufax debate I’ll throw in my 2 cents. Koufax is kinda tough to rate bc he wasn’t great the first part of his career but had possibly the best 5 year stretch ever for a pitcher & then retired at 30 in the middle of his prime. While those 5 years were incredibly dominant it was still only 5 years. Johnson was equally as dominant the first 13 seasons of his career with his highest ERA in a season being 2.22. He had another season with an ERA of 2.21 but the other 11 seasons it was under 2.00. But, a lot of that happened in the dead ball era & that has to be taken into account. If we’re only using their best 5 year stretch then it doesn’t matter but if we compare entire careers I’d give the nod to Johnson simply bc of the longevity. As great as Koufax was I just can’t rank him as highly as most ppl do bc it was only 5 great seasons. That’s just not enough IMO to put him in the top 5-10 when the other guys were nearly as dominant but over a much longer period of time. In this format it’s probably a push. But, judging all time careers I would rank Johnson higher in spite of pitching in the dead ball era just bc he had 3 times as many great seasons as Koufax.
@hotelblue , thanks for the great matchup and debate. That strong defense you created could have easily won. I hope I didn't get too aggressive in my support for my team.
Part of the reason Koufax had a slow start was the bonus baby rule that kept him on the MLB roster at the time. He didn't get the minor league training he could have benefited from. Someone (Norm Sherry if memory serves) convinced him he didn't have to try and throw so hard all the time. This advice turned his career around.
Re his early retirement: The Dodgers were concerned whether he would be able to last the whole season, so they forced him to pitch a very high pitch count in a meaningless spring training game. His arm reaction was so bad he feared pitching would cost him the use of the arm, so he retired.
I've heard that story, it was sad for baseball to lose an elite pitcher to early retirement like that.
