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Round 1 HotelBlue vs. BigBlueFanGA

Who would win in a 7 Game World Series


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

DraftCat

Senior
Nov 5, 2011
5,812
8,062
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Welcome to the 1st All-Time MLB Draft in Paddock's.

Voters the goal was to draft a MLB roster of legends that will compete in a hypothetical
7 game World Series. Please vote on who you believe would win out of the two teams.


@hotelblue

vs RHP....................................vs LHP
S luis castillo 2B....................S luis castillo 2B
S tim raines LF.......................S tim raines CF
L don mattingly 1B................R dj lemaheui 1B
L duke snider CF...................R vladimir guerrero RF
R vladimir guerrero RF..........R nolan arenado 3B
L yogi berra C.......................S lance berkman LF
R nolan arenado 3B..............S Yogi Berra
S omar vizquel SS................S omar vizquel SS

Bench
R matt williams SS/3B

Pitching Rotation:

Games 1 @ 4 @ 7 - LHP sandy koufax
Games 2 @ 5- RHP justin verlander
Games 3 @ 6 - RHP jose rijo

Bullpen:
RHP John Smoltz
LHP Aroldis Chapman


@BigBlueFanGA

1. Ricky Henderson - LF
2. Rod Carew - 1B
3. Arky Vaughan - SS
4. Mike Piazza - C
5. Carlos Beltran - CF
6. George Brett - 3B
7. Roberto Alomar - 2B
8. Dave Winfield - RF

Rotation

1. RH - Walter Johnson
2. RH - Satchel Paige
3. RH - Fergie Jenkins or Smoky Joe Wood - GTD
4. RH - Walter Johnson
5. RH - Satchel Paige
6. RH - Fergie Jenins or Smoky Joe Wood - GTD
7. RH - Walter Johnson

Closer RH - Rollie Fingers

Bench:

1B - Harry Heilmann
3B - Ron Santo
OF - Richie Ashburn
 
Here is my full pitchers write-up.

Ok, here we go. Just a brief synopsis of why I drafted the team I have followed by a player by player breakdown of why I believe I have the best team in this draft. First, it is my belief that with all the legends at the plate, pitching becomes even more important. As a rule, great pitchers seem to come out slightly ahead when facing great hitters. Hitters always have slumps, pitchers rarely do. With that in mind I set out to draft the best pitching staff in this draft. I believe I did just that but it is unconventional and will require some explanations in my player write-ups. In the same vein, if batting suffers most in a great on great matchup then you need great batters to start with. Those were my goals in drafting my team. I tended to value batting average over power. Now, on to my players, first the pitchers.





Walter “Big Train” Johnson - I don’t need to say a lot about Big Train. Most baseball historians consider him the greatest pitcher ever. For his day he was a big man, 6’1” and over 200lbs with very long arms. To make matters worse, he threw with a sidearm delivery. Over his 21 year career he totaled 417-279 W/L, a 2.17 ERA, a 1.061 WHIP and 165.4 WAR. He also totaled 3509 strikeouts. In his best season, 1913, he went 36-7 with an ERA of 1.14 and a WHIP of .780. He was awarded the AL MVP for that season. The man was devastating on the mound, he even tamed The Babe. He normally worked on 3-4 days rest so I’ll start him in games 1, 4 and 7. I don’t think more needs to be said about Big Train. His awards and rankings are so long I won’t type it all, its at the bottom of the link. His numbers were staggering and obviously he is in the HOF. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnswa01.shtml





Satchel Paige - ah, the interesting pick. A brilliant pitcher who didn’t make it to be a MLB rookie until he was 42. Even after a shoulder injury and at that age Satchel was still a very good pitcher but that isn’t why I drafted him. When discussions of the best pitchers of all time happen, Satchel is always in the conversation. The Athletic just did a series this year on the top 100 baseball players of all time. Satchel came in 10th. Not 10th best pitcher, 10th best player. While we’ll never know the real stats of Satchel Paige we do have some and even more important, we have the opinions of legends of the game who played against him. For those who love stats @UKNorse I’m talking to you, this is about all you can hope for In regards to Satchel. https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/6/13/3079411/satchelpaige

This statement “Bob Feller seldom had an especially generous word to say about people who might have been considered as good as him,” said Tye. “The kinds of things that he told me in an interview that I expected to last 10 minutes and went on for 2 hours; The things that he told me made me think, that if Bob Feller thinks he might have been the greatest ever, who am I to disagree with him?”

Needless to say, when Bob Feller, a man some would argue deserves that title “Greatest Pitcher Ever” in his own right, says a man deserves that title, he probably deserves it. This legendary status among his peers is a large part of why Paige was the first of the Negro Leaguers to get the call to the Hall. That quote is from https://sports.cbslocal.com/2016/02/09/satchel-paige-facts-greatest-pitcher-ever/ .

There are many others statements from the greats about Satchel. I don’t think it’s arguable that Satchel isn’t among the top 10 pitchers in history, likely the top 5. He was that good and that good for decades. He was the first from the Negro League to make the HOF and he was a 2x All-Star https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paigesa01.shtml





Smoky Joe Wood - This is my flyer pick but I picked him for very good reasons. He threw on par with Walter Johson and almost certainly would have gone down in history as one of the elite pitchers to play the game. Unfortunately, he broke the thumb on his throwing hand before the 1913 season and it never healed properly. He toughed it out for 3 more seasons with brilliant results but the pain caused by the thumb caused him to take twice as long between starts to recover. He had a career 117-57 record, 2.03 ERA, 40.0 WAR and 1.087 WHIP. 1912 was his banner season as he went 34-5, giving him 1 of 7 30 win seasons in MLB history, with an ERA of 1.91. His best ERA season was his last as a pitcher, 1915, where he dominated with a 15-5 record and an ERA of 1.49. He still gets debated about with regards to the HOF, he was just that good but his career as a pitcher was just too short to get into the HOF. With Big Train, Satchel and Smoky Joe, I have no doubt I have 3 of the best pitchers who ever played the game. He was the 1912 AL MVP, 1915 AL pitching title, 3 seasons in the top 10 WAR for pitchers. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodjo02.shtml





Fergie Jenkins - Fergie was sort of Greg Maddox lite in his day. He wasn’t a power pitcher, he was a control pitcher and he was very good at it. You have to view his numbers in context. He spent his entire career on some of the worst teams in MLB history. I don’t think he was ever on a good team. As a result, some of his numbers don’t stand out but his ability was known. He is in the HOF, his career numbers are WAR 84.2, WHIP 1.142, 284-226 W-L, 3.34 ERA with 3192 strikeouts. He was a 3x All-Star and won the Cy Young in 1971, 8 seasons in the top 10 WAR for pitchers. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jenkife01.shtml





Rollie Fingers - He’s my closer. He has 1 AL MVP and a Cy Young and a 7x All-Star under his belt to go with his 341 saves. He was basically the first great closer and is in the HOF. Career Stats: 944 G (37 GS), 341 SV, 1,701 1/3 IP, 2.90 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 7.09 BB%, 18.71 K%. I found this description of his “peak”, “In 1971, Fingers moved midseason to the closer role. Starting in that next season, 1972, his first full season as a closer, until 1978, Fingers had a seven year run that was incredible. He led the league in saves twice, in games pitched three times, and he still posted a 2.58 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, and he threw an incredible 123 innings per season on average over those seven years!”. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fingero01.shtml
 
Last edited:
I might have to do a separate poll after this is all over who has the best pitching staff.

I'm a baseball junkie so stats don't concern me too much I really enjoy hearing what the old-timers say. However you do have to take them with a grain of salt. They embellished back then big time!
 
I might have to do a separate poll after this is all over who has the best pitching staff.

I'm a baseball junkie so stats don't concern me too much I really enjoy hearing what the old-timers say. However you do have to take them with a grain of salt. They embellished back then big time!
Probably but Feller was basically a jerk and I doubt he bothered to embellish for anyone.
 
Probably but Feller was basically a jerk and I doubt he bothered to embellish for anyone.

Holy Cow did not realize Paige randomly came back to pitch 3 innings at the age of 58. Only allowed 1 hit (to my player Carl Yastremski) now that is impressive.
 
Holy Cow did not realize Paige randomly came back to pitch 3 innings at the age of 58. Only allowed 1 hit (to my player Carl Yastremski) now that is impressive.
Yep and he only threw 28 pitches to do it notching 1 strikeout. That Red Sox team was known for hitting. You just had to shake your head at Satchel.
 
If you can make one I can edit my original post.
that’s nice of you. may not matter lol. i was driving a distance and that’s why the delay.

S raines cf
R lemaheui 2b
L mattingly 1b
R arenado 3b
L snider lf
R guerrero rf
L berra c
S vizquel ss
 
defensively, catcher and infield this is not really close. when teams are this good, you look for holes. i don’t see the same holes on my squad.
 
defensively, catcher and infield this is not really close. when teams are this good, you look for holes. i don’t see the same holes on my squad.
I'm not to sure about that. I'll grant you that defensively was better than Arky. However, Arky was not a bad defender. The flip side is Omar was a poor hitter while Arky was a top 3 hitting shortstop. I'll take George Brett over Nolan every time. Alomar is as good a defender as Castillo but a better hitter with better power. Rod Carew, again, not a bad defender but a great hitter. Both my bench infielders is great as well. All 6 of them are in the HOF. So far, none of yours are. Omar might make it. You don't have a single infielder I'd trade for mine. Now at catcher, Yogi was great bug Piazza had a better fielding percentage and was a vastly better hitter. Again, I'm good with my guys. Again, this is about dominate pitching. My rotation is vastly better overall. The next important issue is hitting to deal with the pitching. My team is vastly better hitting. It really isnt close.
 
I'm not to sure about that. I'll grant you that defensively was better than Arky. However, Arky was not a bad defender. The flip side is Omar was a poor hitter while Arky was a top 3 hitting shortstop. I'll take George Brett over Nolan every time. Alomar is as good a defender as Castillo but a better hitter with better power. Rod Carew, again, not a bad defender but a great hitter. Both my bench infielders is great as well. All 6 of them are in the HOF. So far, none of yours are. Omar might make it. You don't have a single infielder I'd trade for mine. Now at catcher, Yogi was great bug Piazza had a better fielding percentage and was a vastly better hitter. Again, I'm good with my guys. Again, this is about dominate pitching. My rotation is vastly better overall. The next important issue is hitting to deal with the pitching. My team is vastly better hitting. It really isnt close.
yeah i was talking about defense not hof. brett over nolan, carew over lemahieu defensively? based on what?

also don’t see how your staff is vastly superior to mine in any regard.
 
you could argue i’m better defensively at every position. when your defending your guy’s defense you start talking about their offense. i’m not arguing your offense is better but you’re arguing your defense is as well and it just isn’t. also fielding % isn’t a tell all if a player isn’t even capable of a “web gem” type play at all. if you make a play late or don’t have a play that’s not an error. so fielding percentage doesn’t account for all plays made. my infield has 30 gold gloves. my utility if’s have 6.
 
yeah i was talking about defense not hof. brett over nolan, carew over lemahieu defensively? based on what?

also don’t see how your staff is vastly superior to mine in any regard.
Both as overall baseball players. Small defensive differences don't outweigh overall baseball skill. No offense but I'll take my group.
 
Hotelblue has better pitching and fielding, while Georgia has much better hitting, IMO. In the end, I had to go with the more complete team, and that was hotelblue’s.
Wait, did you say he has better pitching? That's fascinating. Based on what exactly?
 
Both as overall baseball players. Small defensive differences don't outweigh overall baseball skill. No offense but I'll take my group.
none taken. it’s not a small difference though. lemaheui could win a gold glove at 3 positions. arenado is the best fielding third baseman in baseball as far as making the difficult play routine. visquel has the highest fielding % of any ss ever. and 11 gold gloves based on his ability to complete difficult plays. don mattingly had 9 gold gloves at first and carew didn’t even play 1B until late in his career. the difference defensively is not small.
 
none taken. it’s not a small difference though. lemaheui could win a gold glove at 3 positions. arenado is the best fielding third baseman in baseball as far as making the difficult play routine. visquel has the highest fielding % of any ss ever. and 11 gold gloves based on his ability to complete difficult plays. don mattingly had 9 gold gloves at first and carew didn’t even play 1B until late in his career. the difference defensively is not small.
Yes it is, your largest difference is with Omar at 3% better fielding. I wouldn't trade the hitting and on base of Arky for that 3%.
 
Small defensive differences don't outweigh overall baseball skill.
trying to wrap my mind around this statement. overall baseball skill is usually determined by 5 tools, 2 defensive, 2 offensive and the other speed. so how are you defining “overall baseball player” exactly?
 
how is your pitching staff better?
Walter is better than Koufax. It isn't even debated. Your next two arent in the same universe as Satchel or Smoky Joe. Just look at basic stats, it isn't hard. To top it off, my 4th starter is a top 25 pitcher all time. Your rotation isnt close.
 
Walter is better than Koufax. It isn't even debated. Your next two arent in the same universe as Satchel or Smoky Joe. Just look at basic stats, it isn't hard. To top it off, my 4th starter is a top 25 pitcher all time. Your rotation isnt close.
lol even stengel said koufax was better than johnson. and pete rose said he was the best he’s seen. who are your sources?
 
already explained fielding %. how many gold gloves you got?
Gold gloves dont win this. I'm not concerned about an average of 2% better fielding. I've already explained why. You select as if, and drafted as if, gold gloves make the player. Overall skill and determination make the player. That's why mine are all in the HOF and none of yours is.
 
You must be kidding.
i’m not. look it up. or just watch burn’s “baseball”. the quote is there. interesting that you were the one to say “it’s not debatable” yet judging by the best hitter ever and possibly the best manager, i should be the one more compelled to make that claim.
 
Gold gloves dont win this. I'm not concerned about an average of 2% better fielding. I've already explained why. You select as if, and drafted as if, gold gloves make the player. Overall skill and determination make the player. That's why mine are all in the HOF and none of yours is.
your criteria is hof. big whoop all my guys are or will be. i digress back to the 5 tools, and how it is you define “overall baseball player”. seems your only answer is hof. that’s not very acute in a draft where most all the players are hof-ers.
 
i’m not. look it up. or just watch burn’s “baseball”. the quote is there. interesting that you were the one to say “it’s not debatable” yet judging by the best hitter ever and possibly the best manager, i should be the one more compelled to make that claim.
Just how many at bats did Rose have against Johnson? Koufax was great but nearly all baseball historians place Walter at #1 or #2. None of them place Koufax there and that's all you have. It's a steep dropoff after Koufax. Googling this is pretty easy. It isnt worth my debate time. Hitting vs defense is a worthy debate but your staff is mine isnt.
 
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your criteria is hof. big whoop all my guys are or will be. i digress back to the 5 tools, and how it is you define “overall baseball player”. seems your only answer is hof. that’s not very acute in a draft where most all the players are hof-ers.
That isnt my criteria, overall baseball skill is my criteria. Yours is primarily defense and gold gloves. I passed on Brooks Robinson because he would be a liability at the plate at this level. Gold gloves are great but what else do you have.
 
i’ve touched on 2 tools, here’s a 3rd. hitting for average, based on lifetime, is actually even.

1B carew .328 > mattingly .307
C piazza .308 > berra .285
3B brett .305 > arenado .295
SS vaughn .318 > vizquel .272

LF snider .295 > henderson .279
2B lemaheui .302 > alomar .300
RF guerrero .318 > winfield .283
CF raines .298 > beltran .279
 
then let’s talk baseball.

i only asked who are your sources. the burden of proof isn’t on me. you are the one making “it’s not even debatable” claims.
 
how is your pitching staff better?
I could see the argument. Kinda depends on how you look at Satchel Paige. I’ve read numerous things about how dominant he was. We’ll never know how good he would have been against MLB competition. But he obviously wasn’t drafted for his 5 years he played in his 40’s, which even that was shockingly good for that age. But for my money, Johnson & Koufax are probably the 2 best pitchers ever. So I consider that a push. But I can definitely see an argument for Paige over Verlander and either Jenkins or Wood over Rijo.
 
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now a 4th tool. hitting for power. hr per 162. again, even.

CF beltran 27 > raines 11
SS vaughn 9 > vizquel 4
C piazza 36 > berra 27
SS alomar 17 > lemaheui 11

RF guerrero 37 > winfield 25
LF snider 31 > henderson 16
3B arenado 36 > brett 19
1B mattingly 20 > carew 6
 
I could see the argument. Kinda depends on how you look at Satchel Paige. I’ve read numerous things about how dominant he was. We’ll never know how good he would have been against MLB competition. But he obviously wasn’t drafted for his 5 years he played in his 40’s, which even that was shockingly good for that age. But for my money, Johnson & Koufax are probably the 2 best pitchers ever. So I consider that a push. But I can definitely see an argument for Paige over Verlander and either Jenkins or Wood over Rijo.
of course it’s arguable. i was wanting him to. still waiting on that. he made strong claims. not sure how stats would suggest it.
 
stolen bases...

2B alomar 32 > lemaheui 12
3B brett 6 > arenado 3
LF henderson 74 > snider 7
1B carew 23 > mattingly 1

SS vizquel 22 > vaughn 11
CF raines 52 > beltran 20
C berra 2 > piazza 1
RF guerrero 14 > winfield 12
 
stolen bases...

2B alomar 32 > lemaheui 12
3B brett 6 > arenado 3
LF henderson 74 > snider 7
1B carew 23 > mattingly 1

SS vizquel 22 > vaughn 11
CF raines 52 > beltran 20
C berra 2 > piazza 1
RF guerrero 14 > winfield 12
Are you seriously talking about serious base stealing?
 
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