POLITICAL THREAD

[anon_l8pbkn96tg3j6]

I cut the cord probably 8 years ago, all of my news has since come from podcasts, youtube, and my grandmother telling me something important happened. I was on a flight last weekend with cable, and with all of the madness I had to check the news. It was striking how robotic, fake, and non-nuanced it all was . . . on every major news channel. It's literally Skip Bayless, but this shit is actually supposed to be important. No wonder actual discussions with thoughtful people are so rare.

 

[ukalumni00]

When Trump wins it would be great if he could bring Sheriff Clarke into his administration. We need "real" professionals like him in our government to help clean up this mess.

CNN is a disgraceful news organization. They bring someone on who knows what the real issues are and they cannot handle it.

 

[TransyCat09]

BLUE UNIONS MATTER!

"We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something—I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point," Stephen Loomis, the union president, told CNN. "They can fight about it after the RNC or they can lift it after the RNC, but I want him to absolutely outlaw open-carry in Cuyahoga County until this RNC is over."

These guys are awesome! The Constitution sucks imo

 

[Bill Derington]

Transy, The guy is looking out for Cops best interest. That's his job.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I'd imagine 95% of the people open carrying at the RNC will be ISIS, BLM or the DNC looking to stir up trouble.

I work in OH and had no idea it was an open carry state. Have never seen anyone other than a cop carrying a weapon.

But then again, I don't think you need a permit to open carry a weapon. So given the sentiment from BLM, the DNC and ISIS, people be carrying weapons to protect themselves, and doing that openly if they don't have a concealed permit.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Transy, The guy is looking out for Cops best interest. That's his job.

Pretty sure a cop's job, and oath, includes upholding and protecting the Constitution.

 

[TransyCat09]

Bill D, the guy wants to openly trash the Constitution so his officers can *feel* safe (not actually be safe). That's also his job, sadly

 

[TransyCat09]

Pretty sure a cop's job, and oath, includes upholding and protecting the Constitution.

Nope, the cops' only job is to make it home safe. Protecting the civil rights of citizens is, at best, a secondary responsibility of police officers

 

[cawoodsct]

 

[Teachable Moe]

I didn't speculate why the coup was attempted. Just that Kerry and Obama bumbled it by publicly supporting one side or the other. Then further by announcing they'd consider an extradition.

No need to say anything publicly.



Something insane will happen. I expect hillary to set blm to task, and for them to be in full anarchy mode. That's the real reason they are funded by soros - to be the dems proxy for anarchy, while giving the dems the deniability.

The msm already bends over backwards to avoid tying blm to any violence at all. So the chances of blm getting tied to anything that'll happen in Cleveland are slim. Chances the dems are tied to blm by the msm is practically in the negative percentile, if that were a thing.

You don't know what the coup wanted. You don't know what the Admin did. All you're sure of is that it was wrong.

Say no more.

 

[Bill Derington]

Pretty sure a cop's job, and oath, includes upholding and protecting the Constitution.

He was speaking as the representative of the cops. Since we've had at least 4 incidents in the last 10 days of cops being specifically targeted by members of groups that have openly called for the killing of cops, and cops have been killed.
Those groups will be at the convention, as well as a large number of police out in the open.
To me he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't ask, and Kasich in turn did his job.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

You don't know what the coup wanted. You don't know what the Admin did. All you're sure of is that it was wrong.

Say no more.

Strawman. Never claimed to know what anyone wanted. I just know what they said. What they said was dumb. They shouldn't have commented at all

 

[Bill Derington]

Nope, the cops' only job is to make it home safe. Protecting the civil rights of citizens is, at best, a secondary responsibility of police officers

The Cops job is to uphold law and order.

Do you think in light of the incidents of the past 10 days it's likely an incident will occur at the convention?

 

[TransyCat09]

He was speaking as the representative of the cops. Since we've had at least 4 incidents in the last 10 days of cops being specifically targeted by members of groups that have openly called for the killing of cops, and cops have been killed.
Those groups will be at the convention, as well as a large number of police out in the open.
To me he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't ask, and Kasich in turn did his job.

Asking for the unilateral suspension of Constitutional rights should not be any government official's job. Why are you so willing to show deference to government officials who already have tons of powers and protections?

 

[Bill Derington]

I'd imagine 95% of the people open carrying at the RNC will be ISIS, BLM or the DNC looking to stir up trouble.

I work in OH and had no idea it was an open carry state. Have never seen anyone other than a cop carrying a weapon.

But then again, I don't think you need a permit to open carry a weapon. So given the sentiment from BLM, the DNC and ISIS, people be carrying weapons to protect themselves, and doing that openly if they don't have a concealed permit.

Nothing can go wrong if you've got a bunch of people mad as hell at each other in a heated political environment carrying weapons.

 

[Bill Cosby]

There's a couple ways he could go about it.

"Even though Ohio law allows for the open carry of weapons, we ask the people of Ohio to exercise discretion this coming week. The tragic events of recent weeks have everyone, cops and civilians, on edge."

"We ask the governor to ban the open carry of weapons. We know that's unconstitutional, but don't care. If you're open carrying we want to be able to arrest you for exercising your rights, tie up the judicial system with lawsuits, and make a tense situation even worse."

 

[TransyCat09]

The Cops job is to uphold law and order.

Do you think in light of the incidents of the past 10 days it's likely an incident will occur at the convention?

No, the police officer's job is to enforce statutes. If there is nothing unlawful about an act then it is not the police's job to start cracking skulls in the name of "order".

Also, your fear of open carry is a complete non-sequitor since none of the police involved shootings involved people who were open carrying you are simply afraid of a hypothetical situation.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Nothing can go wrong if you've got a bunch of people mad as hell at each other in a heated political environment carrying weapons.

So you should take away rights from law abiding citizens since BLM and the DNC will be at the Republican Convention looking to cause trouble?

 

[Bill Derington]

Asking for the unilateral suspension of Constitutional rights should not be any government official's job. Why are you so willing to show deference to government officials who already have tons of powers and protections?

I'm not, but I don't think you are understanding the tension that's going to be in the air outside the convention hall either.
The man was speaking on behalf of the police members, his job is to speak their mind.

This is a result of the current atmosphere our Govt has fostered. Imagine you're a cop, you feel like a sitting duck, and every action is second guessed, if you defend yourself will there's a strong possibility you'll be arrested and charged. That's the mindset that causes a request like this, it's a damned if you do, and damned if you don't situation.

 

[TransyCat09]

So you should take away rights from law abiding citizens since BLM and the DNC will be at the Republican Convention looking to cause trouble?

Yes, and Bill feels the same way when there is a rash of unarmed civilians shot by police. I'm quite sure he would come out in favor of temporarily disarming police and suspending their Constitutional rights. Consistency is the name of his game

 

[Bill Cosby]

Honestly, shut down internet access in Cleveland for the week. Suspend the ability of citizens to speak freely on any subject. Detain and torture any and everyone who steps foot outside during the convention. Force the citizens of Cleveland to house military personnel for the week. Suspend all religious ceremonies and prayer in Cleveland.

Really, who cares about the Constitution. We need to make sure the DNC and BLM don't incite any violence.

 

[Bill Derington]

Yes, and Bill feels the same way when there is a rash of unarmed civilians shot by police. I'm quite sure he would come out in favor of temporarily disarming police and suspending their Constitutional rights. Consistency is the name of his game

Who was the rash of unarmed citizens shot ?

 

[Bill Derington]

So you should take away rights from law abiding citizens since BLM and the DNC will be at the Republican Convention looking to cause trouble?

I hope nothing happens, but you're mixing fuel, heat and oxygen and hoping there a fire doesn't occur.

 

[TransyCat09]

there's a strong possibility you'll be arrested and charged.

No, this is actually only what you think happens. It's the cousin of "you'll be kicked out of college if you're a christian" memes. In fact, the biggest issue with police use of force is that they are rarely questioned. Look at the numbers of police involved shootings and the number of charges brought against officers. Even if you think police are super human, there is no way their arrest rate (let alone conviction rare) should be as low as it is.

Police aren't monsters, but they are human. They make mistakes and do bad things. They are punished for it at a lesser rate than other citizens. It's the same phenomenon that we saw with Hilary Clinton. The people in power have a different set of rules

 

[UPSCat4080]

How is it un Constitutional to enact the same legislation that NYC has already enacted? All it would take would be for the city of Cleveland to enact a ban on guns within their city limits. It is the city's choice....not unconstitutional. They aren't saying they aren't allowed to own guns...just that they're not allowed to pack them in the streets openly like many other cities have already done.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I hope nothing happens, but you're mixing fuel, heat and oxygen and hoping there a fire doesn't occur.

No, I'm not doing anything.

How bout, instead of taking away the Constitutional rights of the gun owners, we take away the right to assemble and the right of free speech of anyone who disagrees with the RNC message?

Seems to me, we're worried about BLM and the DNC protestors. Why not just prevent them from showing up or speaking?

 

[Bill Derington]

No, this is actually only what you think happens. It's the cousin of "you'll be kicked out of college if you're a christian" memes. In fact, the biggest issue with police use of force is that they are rarely questioned. Look at the numbers of police involved shootings and the number of charges brought against officers. Even if you think police are super human, there is no way their arrest rate (let alone conviction rare) should be as low as it is.

Police aren't monsters, but they are human. They make mistakes and do bad things. They are punished for it at a lesser rate than other citizens. It's the same phenomenon that we saw with Hilary Clinton. The people in power have a different set of rules

I am talking about right now Transy, and what Cops have in the back of their minds.
I agree they make mistakes.
They're just people doing a job that you and I don't want.

 

[Bill Derington]

No, I'm not doing anything.

How bout, instead of taking away the Constitutional rights of the gun owners, we take away the right to assemble and the right of free speech of anyone who disagrees with the RNC message?

Seems to me, we're worried about BLM and the DNC protestors. Why not just prevent them from showing up or speaking?

We aren't worried about anything.

I'm not just speaking about the DNC or BLM Cosby.
How many people opposed to them are going to be there armed as well? You're going to have a ton of people in a heated environment packing weapons, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[WettCat]

Listen Cleveland! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now! Busted up, and everyone talking about Black Lives Matter! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Dallas learned. Baton Rouge learned. Now, when men get to fighting, it happens here! And it finishes here! Two men enter; one man leaves.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Seems to me, we're worried about BLM and the DNC protestors. Why not just prevent them from showing up or speaking?

Yup. It's in the best interest of their safety to not let them show up at all. Just ban them from protesting, and make the ban for the following week as well, just to be safe. Their safety comes first, so they need to be banned.

 

[TransyCat09]

I agree they make mistakes.
They're just people doing a job that you and I don't want.

- OK, if they make mistakes, why are they so rarely punished for them?

- They are doing a job I don't want to do, so are septic tank cleaners. Strenuousness of the job has no bearing on what laws you do and don't have to follow.

All of that said, being a police officer is not nearly as dangerous as you or the police make it out to be. There has certainly been a spate of police killings, but in general police are killed at roughly the same rate as your average American (5.55 cops per 100,000 and 5.6 citizens per 100,000). This year is only slightly ahead of last year's police death total even when factoring in the recent killings. So the idea that police are some how uniquely marked for death (again, *very* recent history aside) is ridiculous and only feeds into the notion that police *have* to be confrontational and militarized.

Your arguments are the exact same ones made by gun control activists after a mass shooting. No matter how rare, any event that feeds your narrative is sufficient to throw everyone else under the bus

 

[Bill Derington]

- OK, if they make mistakes, why are they so rarely punished for them?

- They are doing a job I don't want to do, so are septic tank cleaners. Strenuousness of the job has no bearing on what laws you do and don't have to follow.

All of that said, being a police officer is not nearly as dangerous as you or the police make it out to be. There has certainly been a spate of police killings, but in general police are killed at roughly the same rate as your average American (5.55 cops per 100,000 and 5.6 citizens per 100,000). This year is only slightly ahead of last year's police death total even when factoring in the recent killings. So the idea that police are some how uniquely marked for death (again, *very* recent history aside) is ridiculous and only feeds into the notion that police *have* to be confrontational and militarized.

Your arguments are the exact same ones made by gun control activists after a mass shooting. No matter how rare, any event that feeds your narrative is sufficient to throw everyone else under the bus

Transy, all I'm saying is we are in a very unique and heated situation right now. Cops are being specifically targeted RIGHT NOW, the convention is RIGHT NOW, groups targeting the cops, and those opposed to them are gathering in Cleveland RIGHT NOW, it is going to be a volatile situation that if it escalates is going to make things much much worse.

It's nothing like the anti gun people wanting to permanently take guns from people. The Union Rep simply asked for a moratorium during the convention.

He represents his members, that should tell you that cops are worried about the situation.

 

[Bill Derington]

I didn't say ALL Cops are marked for death, but The convention is going to mix all the ingredients in a close proximity for trouble to happen.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Yes it'll be a tense situation. But you can't just suspend constitutional rights just because it's tense. As another poster pointed out, you wouldn't want to ban people's 1st amendment right just because it's a tense time.

We get all of our constitutional rights; all the time. We don't have to pick and choose. And we don't get them only on perfect days.

 

[krazykats]

You know when people try to beat you to a statement like "oh your one of those go back to your home type people" it's always fun to just say "well that wasn't my point really but since you brought it up do you think white people would buy you back as soon as your people tried selling you off again?"

You talk about pissed off people. I really need to learn to shut my mouth and not exercise my freedom of speech so much.

 

[krazykats]

I didn't say ALL Cops are marked for death, but The convention is going to mix all the ingredients in a close proximity for trouble to happen.

Good!

The worse this gets the better the resolution will be.

 

[TransyCat09]

Transy, all I'm saying is we are in a very unique and heated situation right now. Cops are being specifically targeted RIGHT NOW, the convention is RIGHT NOW, groups targeting the cops, and those opposed to them are gathering in Cleveland RIGHT NOW, it is going to be a volatile situation that if it escalates is going to make things much much worse.

It's nothing like the anti gun people wanting to permanently take guns from people. The Union Rep simply asked for a moratorium during the convention.

He represents his members, that should tell you that cops are worried about the situation.

There's nothing more permanent than a temporary government program

 

[Supreme Lord Z]

Look at CNN's Don Lemon get taken to school. He's a bitch.

View embedded media

This video perfectly illustrates why Trump is going to win this election easily. Lemon is like Hillary, talking platitudes and horseshit to voters in places like California where Hillary is going to really run up the score.

Meanwhile, that police officer is speaking DIRECTLY to fed up white middle class voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. Laser-like. Hitting them right in the gut.

As I posted in the other thread, the Democrats had a chance to effectively utterly destroy the GOP as a national presidential party in this election. The demographics are there and growing.

But, in a blinding display of pure luck, the GOP has Trump who can win the rust belt decisively and if he makes good on his campaign promise and actually deliver jobs massively and do something on illegal immigration, then the GOP can add the rust belt to their southern block for a generation and destroy the Democrats as a national presidential party by reducing them to running up numbers in the west and northeast.

By all means and at all costs the Democrats cannot allow Trump to win the rust belt. They are gambling on the very viability of the party with their flirting incompetence. This is rapidly devolving into a total nightmare for Democrats and you know what, they deserve it for being so incompetent and not listening to people like me that could have saved them.

 

[UPSCat4080]

We get all of our constitutional rights; all the time. We don't have to pick and choose. And we don't get them only on perfect days.

Have the citizens who walk around NYC every single day not being allowed to openly carry a firearm given up their Constitutional rights?

 

[ram1955]

Good point. Just know Krazy. I hate Muslims #1.

I think it would be interesting to develop a "religious" genogram of your life. No charge for the sessions.