POLITICAL THREAD

[qwesley]

So voting dem is the fiscally responsible thing to do?

fuzz only talks about Dems on very selective defensive terms. He is lecturing on fiscal stuff and will blindly support whichever Dem gets the nomination in the contest to see who can promise more free stuff. Like plat, he is mute when you challenge him on the Dems controlling the House and ability to address budget.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[ukalumni00]

Holy cow...

No wonder they dropped that impeachment crap quickly. Too late! Now everybody knows these clowns are in deep with Ukraine, and Trump is still president.

Assuming it’s true, Trump should be running ad after ad on this fact alone.

 

[rqarnold]

 

[augustaky1]

Fuzz...Perhaps I should have been more specific. I am not for adding debt. I was referring to some dems whining because some people no longer pay a 50% tax rate.
I'm for a flat tax. Make the first 30K tax free for all people. That gives lower income people a break. Everything above that everyone pays the same rate.

Ideal tax form would be:
Name
Gross income - $30K x 20% (+/-) = tax owed

No taxes on corporations ( owners/stockholders pay income tax)
No deductions for ANYTHING.

I find the flat tax very intriguing and a good idea.

I have always had one question that I personally cannot figure out how to handle, for lack of a better term.

Let's say we set the no-tax threshold at $30K and a 20% rate.

If I am an employee who makes around $24,500 - $29,999, how do I get over the $30K hump and not take a pay cut?

It looks to me like the $30 - $36K pay range would be an area where you could actually take a pay cut when given a pay raise, or just fall in that pay range.

Do we do a phase-in tax of some sort to get over the hump of a pay raise costing employees money?

I hope I expressed the above in a semi-coherent fashion. This thought has been in my head, I just did not nit-pick the scenario or math to try and make it bulletproof for certain people in this thread

The previous statement is not directed at you ram1955

 

[rqarnold]

Fuzz...Perhaps I should have been more specific. I am not for adding debt. I was referring to some dems whining because some people no longer pay a 50% tax rate.
I'm for a flat tax. Make the first 30K tax free for all people. That gives lower income people a break. Everything above that everyone pays the same rate.

Ideal tax form would be:
Name
Gross income - $30K x 20% (+/-) = tax owed

No taxes on corporations ( owners/stockholders pay income tax)
No deductions for ANYTHING.

FYI you’re calling for a massive tax increase for about 80% of people and tax breaks for the top 5%.

 

[qwesley]

Oct 2016 is the first mention of Syria by @rqarnold, real mystery.

 

[rqarnold]

I find the flat tax very intriguing and a good idea.

I have always had one question that I personally cannot figure out how to handle, for lack of a better term.

Let's say we set the no-tax threshold at $30K and a 20% rate.

If I am an employee who makes around $24,500 - $29,999, how do I get over the $30K hump and not take a pay cut?

It looks to me like the $30 - $36K pay range would be an area where you could actually take a pay cut when given a pay raise, or just fall in that pay range.

Do we do a phase-in tax of some sort to get over the hump of a pay raise costing employees money?

I hope I expressed the above in a semi-coherent fashion. This thought has been in my head, I just did not nit-pick the scenario or math to try and make it bulletproof for certain people in this thread

The previous statement is not directed at you ram1955

If you earn > $30K you only pay tax on that amount over $30K...not all of it. Someone making $35k would pay tax on $5K. Someone making $40K pays tax on $10K, etc

Today someone married who earns < $50K pays 0 federal tax.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[55wildcat]

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That's like armed robbing a bank, then taking money back two weeks later crying no harm no foul...

 

[cat_chaser]

They accuse Trump of crimes based on anonymous second/third hearsay, have zero corroborating evidence, constantly lie about the surrounding facts, blatantly make up fictional quotes that were never uttered, purposely omit 500 words from the transcript to make a false connection, hold "fact finding" hearings in secret, illegally and selectively leak information from said hearings to create a false narrative, then without hesitation because they're anti American scum who couldn't care less about the presumption of innocence they proudly say into the mic "prove your innocence".

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And yet that’s still less perverse than what they did to him while he was running for president.

Sick, demented, and lawless fools. As a nation, we can only hope Barr and Durham swing’em from ropes.

 

[augustaky1]

If you earn > $30K you only pay tax on that amount over $30K...not all of it. Someone making $35k would pay tax on $5K. Someone making $40K pays tax on $10K, etc

Today someone married who earns < $50K pays 0 federal tax.

Ok. Thanks. That makes more sense, I appreciate the explanation.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Today someone married who earns < $50K pays 0 federal tax.

Would love to see the citation for that.

Also, do you comprehend how stupid it is for the left to claim “tax cuts for the rich” anytime tax cuts are discussed, when half the country already pays no (and in a lot of cases negative) taxes?

 

[rqarnold]

I understand that, but how do you get there without governmental interference or increased taxation. I also understand about exorbitant executive compensation. I've seen situations in which an exec cut 10K jobs and got a massive bonus because of the subsequent increase in the bottom line.
I'm not saying all that is right. I'm not saying it's right for a person to have hundreds of millions of dollars and not be willing to share with families and children that are starving. I'm saying it's never the role of government to force people to make moral decisions. No amount of legislation will compensate for lack of character. It never works. You can't eliminate greed through legislation...nor is it the right of the people/government to attempt to do so.

Quoting you...”I 'm saying it's never the role of government to force people to make moral decisions.”.
Yet you want government to outlaw abortion.

We got here because government changed the rules to make it more advantageous to those with the means to exploit those means to earn more. Money is power. Those with the power will always seek more power.
There is a reason we have anti-trust laws to prevent business monopolies. Because if a business becomes so large and powerful that it can exploit that power to crush its competitors, it will do so. What we are seeing is a virtual monopoly of wealth and power into a smaller and smaller pool of hands. That power is being used and will continue to be used to further concentrate that power and wealth and influence. If you don’t see the eventual end game of all of that I can’t help you. Once that happens the only resolution is revolution.

 

[rqarnold]

Would love to see the citation for that.

Also, do you comprehend how stupid it is for the left to claim “tax cuts for the rich” anytime tax cuts are discussed, when half the country already pays no (and in a lot of cases negative) taxes?

What’s the median income Bill? What % of earners who pay taxes? Figure it out.

You’re right...although you just tried to argue that point with me.

If they keep cutting taxes either only the rich will be left paying.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

Damn tax argument.

Look, the current tax system is set up to incentivize earning and spending and investing. That creates wealth, which is not zero sum like leftists think it is; the endless growth little swedish girl screams about is the economic egnine which is lifting people out of poverty and destitution worldwide at an unprecedented rated.

The 1% not paying their fair share, they already pay more tax than like the 93% of the bottom combined. You are complaining about scraps.

Oh, Amazon doesn't pay tax. That's cause they spend all their income which ends up just creating more income until Bezos dominates the world, in the meantime creating incalculable tax revenue.

You can syphon off wealth from them in endless measures other than socialism, which does nothing but retard economic growth. Go to Europe and see, you will get paid less money for the same work and you will get taxed at rates you can't comprehend and hell if you happen to make enough you get taxed twice should you retain your American citizenship. Go ahead and do it.

Something like 5 million of the world's 10-15 million millionaires are American. When you have that kind of wealth you don't just leave it in the bank collecting dust, you spend it which becomes someone elses' income or you invest it or you use it to create more money by buying businesses or lord knows what else. THere's nowhere on the planet to get rich better than the USA and that's what enables our economy to be the bets in so many measures, why people like Elon Musk are American and not Swedish. If you want to be taken care of by a welfare state you can go move to Sweden, where you will be paid less for the same work and they will tax you more for that work. We already have a liberal progressive system here, if it's not good enough for you then go move or start up a workers cooperative company or something if you need to satisfy your communist fetishes.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

If you earn > $30K you only pay tax on that amount over $30K...not all of it. Someone making $35k would pay tax on $5K. Someone making $40K pays tax on $10K, etc

Today someone married who earns < $50K pays 0 federal tax.

Thank you President Trump. After he wins in 2020 it will get even better.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Since every moron Trumpster keeps parroting this same bullshit. ....

 

[dezyDeco]

Watch if you want a good laugh haha...'yes he is robbing ya'll...oh well'

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Who is the dumbest here? The siblings or the media that put them on TV to show their stupidity?

Another of obumma's imaginary sons, just walking around, minding their own business.

This is lib-dum America in a nutshell. Unreal. The family feels completely confident in their ignorant position.

Even worse, I imagine every (D) Prez candidate is crying that they couldn't be there to pander to these two idiots. Hell, Beto would probably offer them co-VPs on his ticket.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Watch if you want a good laugh haha...'yes he is robbing ya'll...oh well'

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She is basically saying what every leftist on here and every leftist in the United States says.

Roosevelt did not choose wisely.

 

[mdlUK.1]

Lying a$$hole$ are the wurst.
Cheating, lying, a$$hole$ gotta go!

So you’re going?

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Who is the dumbest here? The siblings or the media that put them on TV to show their stupidity?

The siblings.

The media is close because they are hoping for Ferguson.

 

[Bill Cosby]

What’s the median income Bill? What % of earners who pay taxes? Figure it out.

You’re right...although you just tried to argue that point with me.

If they keep cutting taxes either only the rich will be left paying.

You made a flat out statistical claim. I asked for a citation because I’d like to use it in the future. I’m not arguing.

Do you have a citation or did you make it up?

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[screwduke1]

Yawn. Nothing was said by leftists while half a million were slaughtered in Syria under Obama. These people truly have no shame

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[55wildcat]

 

[55wildcat]

Have not seen Gassy post lately, he/she get a timeout??

 

[KendallCat]

If you earn > $30K you only pay tax on that amount over $30K...not all of it. Someone making $35k would pay tax on $5K. Someone making $40K pays tax on $10K, etc

Today someone married who earns < $50K pays 0 federal tax.

Flat tax with no burden under $30k or whatever number they deem is fair and equitable. Sensitive to those who are in a bad situation and helping them out and currently there are plenty of programs to assist them, and at the same time can’t have all of those not contributing to the system. Personally a consumption tax is the way to go - don’t want to pay taxes don’t purchase, but with more money in ones pocket the more they will spend. Plus it pulls from those here illegally, tourists, and others - no hiding and not paying your fair share. Rich want to buy a house, yacht, or sports car would pay more which is what everyone screams for anyways.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

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Now that's an abuse of power in broad daylight. Noone cares though since it's a dem

Also did Edstein explain his claim that he voted for Romney the Obama in the next election?

Still waiting

 

[gollumcat]

Yawn. Nothing was said by leftists while half a million were slaughtered in Syria under Obama. These people truly have no shame

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If she has no words , why doesn’t she just shut her cakehole?

 

[screwduke1]

 

[AustinTXCat]

Have not seen Gassy post lately, he/she get a timeout??

Gassy returns October 27.

 

[cardkilla]

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And why should he divest? Is HE running for President? Considering the current guy didn't divest a thing, this is kinda funny to go after the kids of the candidates as if they are running.

 

[cardkilla]

Yawn. Nothing was said by leftists while half a million were slaughtered in Syria under Obama. These people truly have no shame

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This was a huge mistake by Obama. We should have intervened in Syria earlier. But giving Turkey the green light to slaughter your allies who you just abandon is disgusting. And then Turkey puts our troops there in danger and not a word from Trump. Guess he's gotta protect his assets in Turkey.

It wouldn't surprise me too if he just let this happen to take the heat off his impending impeachment. Didn't you guys want to impeach Obama for wearing a tan suit or something?

 

[Mashburned]

Trump now calling out Obama. I’m not confident at all that anything will happen to the democrat criminals who abused their power and attempted to stop Trump, but I’m confident they’ll all be exposed, even Obama. Not that it matters. The media will never fairly report the facts, just like they didn’t report on Hillary, but man it’s refreshing to hear the truth, and know we have a president actively seeking the truth for the betterment of this country. This orange skinned literal Hitler should be busy conducting backroom deals with the elites of the world, trading favors in exchange for high paying fake foreign jobs for all his kids, and enslaving blacks. Instead, the dumbass is cracking down on China and fighting domestic corruption at the highest level. Worst president ever!

 

[ram1955]

I find the flat tax very intriguing and a good idea.

I have always had one question that I personally cannot figure out how to handle, for lack of a better term.

Let's say we set the no-tax threshold at $30K and a 20% rate.

If I am an employee who makes around $24,500 - $29,999, how do I get over the $30K hump and not take a pay cut?

It looks to me like the $30 - $36K pay range would be an area where you could actually take a pay cut when given a pay raise, or just fall in that pay range.

Do we do a phase-in tax of some sort to get over the hump of a pay raise costing employees money?

I hope I expressed the above in a semi-coherent fashion. This thought has been in my head, I just did not nit-pick the scenario or math to try and make it bulletproof for certain people in this thread

The previous statement is not directed at you ram1955

Imo, you'd pay no tax on the first $30K, then only pay tax on the $6k above that. You're still incentivized to make more money.

 

[ram1955]

FYI you’re calling for a massive tax increase for about 80% of people and tax breaks for the top 5%.

I'm calling for what is right and fair. Respectfully, you and I apparently disagree on either. When I said 20%, that was just a figure. I'd be completely satisfied with 5%. Then make the budget fit within that amount.

Again, respectfully, why do you favor one group paying a greater percentage than another group? Why is it a bad thing with the 5% you mention get a tax break? Don't get me wrong, I'm not part of that group...or even close.

 

[ram1955]

Quoting you...”I 'm saying it's never the role of government to force people to make moral decisions.”.
Yet you want government to outlaw abortion.

We got here because government changed the rules to make it more advantageous to those with the means to exploit those means to earn more. Money is power. Those with the power will always seek more power.
There is a reason we have anti-trust laws to prevent business monopolies. Because if a business becomes so large and powerful that it can exploit that power to crush its competitors, it will do so. What we are seeing is a virtual monopoly of wealth and power into a smaller and smaller pool of hands. That power is being used and will continue to be used to further concentrate that power and wealth and influence. If you don’t see the eventual end game of all of that I can’t help you. Once that happens the only resolution is revolution.

There are absolutes that we as a nation and humanity in general subscribes to. Essentially, list the 10 Commandments and most people will agree with no fewer than 8. Most would agree that murder is wrong thus our's and most societies have outlawed it. Most agree that killing innocent people is wrong. Abortion is murder; it's killing. Theft is wrong. Robin Hood was a criminal!

I don't disagree that we are headed toward big problems, but redistribution of wealth is not the answer. You cite financial issues, but those problems are only symptoms of deeper problems. We are, indeed, headed to hell in a handbag. I've asked before, "If we could limit the Trumps, Gates', of the world's income....or say tax them at the 50% level, what would we do with the money???? Would we give it away to people who don't earn it....like social programs do? Would we destroy people's drive to better themselves (employee telling me she has to quit her job because the "welfare" office says I'm making too much money)? We, as humans, are greedy.
We should not take advantage of others, but in some ways, that's what capitalism does.
You cannot legislate that people have the desire to share...though we should do so. Until people in general make the decision to be kind, cooperative and compassionate, we will have problems. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Yet, that does not excuse individuals from caring for others.

Tell you what: Let's come up with a plan by which the gov determines the amount someone like me pays in support of social programs, health care for others, supporting childcare, etc.... Give me the opportunity to spend that same amount of money on similar efforts and require me to demonstrate I've spent the money...but allow me the freedom to determine how and on what I spend the money. Upon verification, do not require me to submit that amount to the irs.