POLITICAL THREAD
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What difference would it make, relative to the substance of my argument, if I was 80 or 15? That's part of my argument. Just saying, "Well, my podunk town sucks now cause a plant closed down." Is not evidence for trade being bad.
Labor is a commodity. Our labor is expensive. We have raw materials, sure, but labor is no different than zinc or copper in an economic sense. If we close off trade like Bill wants, we will have to use more expensive labor. It's no different than Japan having to use more expensive (read: more scarce) raw materials from within their borders rather than importing cheaper (read: less scarce) raw materials from elsewhere.
Thoughts on Sweden, vis-a-vis socialism???
I am fine with the government picking American winners over foreigners. You wacko bird libertarians don't even understand why countries formed.
What is really expensive is our executive compensation. Too few take too big a piece of the pie. By returning compensation levels to 1960s-1970s norms would go a long way in rebuilding the middle class.
Until we reverse the flow of money to the top, nothing will change.
My point was that Reagan did essentially the same thing many of you seem to think is impossible currently. He did it in 82 when he saved Harley Davidson, he understood that Japan was permanently going to be a fixture in the US marketplace. In order to do avoid a huge tariff a portion of them had to be made here, so they did just that.
Trump already talked about it in the first debate. Actually, he knocked the answer out of the park and became an immediate contender.
Also, even back in his Art of the Deal he talks about the importance of playing the political game.
Exactly. Mainly because those same segments enjoyed greatly enhanced wages due to unions. Turns out, you don't have to pay joe six pack $125,000 annually to push a button; Rodrigo can and will do it just as good for $5,000.
False. Stop trying to tear down the top. If anything, study how they got there and go do it yourself.
OK, and segment would rather bitch about those people than actually do something beneficial.
OK, so you're incapable of understanding basic economics and refuse to accept how painfully wrong you were earlier. That's a hell of a combo. Even for you
It's relevant because as book smart as you may be if you didn't live through that time working for a living and supporting a family you can't truly know anymore than a book tells you. Those same educational books would have you believe that Christopher Columbus found America.
If you were alive at the time you'd understand that the college book was lagging way behind and as soon as factories up and left colleges were all of a sudden flooded and quickly overpriced.
It was designed and carefully orchestrated capatilism and the people were not prepared at all. That was the real problem. As we went away from factory work almost overnight Americans were caught off guard by big business being 10 steps ahead and govt being too stupid to get in the way.
Now I'm not sure if you're really happy with NAFTA because you're looking at it very selfishly. It isn't just the 1 plant in Podunk USA it's the 1000's of plants all over America. While your point holds true, what you are missing is how fast we came out of an era and directly into a new era where we flooded the markets with college educated idiots that knew everything but really had no clue.
The idea was to simply toss a generation to the side because they did what was needed at the time but were no longer any good. What we are beginning to realize in a lot of industries is all that experience we got rid of has been recruited to some foreign countries to do the same job and now our workforce has an education but sucks, has no work ethic, are lazy, and worst of all an education of books is no replacement for the education of experience.
But you are probably too young to know any of that so the America you have is all you know, except what you've read about.
Or you are arguing just to argue and make yourself sound smart, and I'm not sure which is true exactly.
It's still happening now. People are talking about new jobs, when we are about to be pushed into automation.
It's setting up to be a job crisis in as little as 20 years. Automation will turn this country into one big unemployment line.
VR porn will be here in 20 years and weed will be fed legal. Being poor will never look so attractive.
This post brought to you by Post brand Raisin Bran. When you need to fill your Depends, count on Post.
Seriously, the amount of generational/similar whining is ridiculous.
What if the future of porn and weed is expensive? So VR porn is like a luxury automobile, and weed is like high end scotch or wine? Enough motivation for "AMG Millenials suck" or no?
UNLESS U LOSED UR JOB U CANT SAYS HOW BAD TRADE IS!!! If you had cancer would you only go to oncologists who had cancer?
I haven't read an "educational book" (
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
) that would have me believe Christopher Columbus found America since I was probably 8 years old. That pretty much sums up your views. It doesn't matter what empirical evidence says; your entire post is classic argumentation from anecdote. I've mentioned it at least three times now. Maybe if you started educating yourself instead of relying on anecdotes, you could formulate more complex thoughts.Also, my mother and most of my town lost their jobs when our textile plant left for Jamaica. Pretty sure I did live through it, hoss.
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Because there was distorted market data through the form of protectionalism and unions. Had the data not been distorted, this process would've been much slower and easier for the average person to adapt. Had the wages and jobs not been abnormally inflated through those mechanisms, the worker would've seen this coming and changed jobs/careers. Instead, it seemed to the worker like it happened overnight. Whereas the businessman saw it coming from a mile away.
Take away decades worth of red tape, government restriction, meddling, and oversight; and I guarantee the innovation would've been mindblowing. No way we'd still be relying on gas powered automobiles that are only a slight step ahead of where they were 40 years ago (if theyre ahead at all).
UNLESS U LOSED UR JOB U CANT SAYS HOW BAD TRADE IS!!! If you had cancer would you only go to oncologists who had cancer?
I haven't read an "educational book" (
Also, my mother and most of my town lost their jobs when our textile plant left for Jamaica. Pretty sure I did live through it, hoss.
Pretty I asked your age beforehand and your very descriptively explained it didn't matter, dipshit! When in fact obviously you realize it did matter.
I'm as educated as I need to be. I've done fine with my education at making money, and now as a sales man I'm smart enough to know see the difference in what education can't provide. That is the experience part I spoke about.
All your BS lingo that makes you feel better educated is a waste and reminds me of Matt Damon dropping Mr bookworm with real world knowledge. "How about them apples"
Anyway, keep your libertarian ways up its clearly working for you as I'm sure your working now and paying taxes by now.
They weren't abnormally inflated, they only seem that way because now we're using third world labor. By your logic a doctor or lawyer here is overpaid, because one in a third world country makes far less.
Corporations realized they could buy off enough elected officials to get it passed, and they did. Now you guys act like there's absolutely no way we could ever go back, you're wrong.
Short term the market would take a hit, long term we would be better off as a nation.
krazykats has a genius level IQ but works as a janitor? Man, it really is all about laziness with the poors.
- Where did I admit my age mattered? If I did, I apologize, because I should have said, "It absolutely doesn't matter one GD touching bit."
- What does being a libertarian have to do with working and paying taxes? Losing almost half of paycheck to pay for a government I see as unfit is one of the reasons I'm a libertarian in the first place.
I'm not saying this as an insult or anything, but I honestly can't keep up with half of what you say. A decent portion of it is either incoherent or so off topic that I can barely respond. Again, that's not me "throwing shade", that's just an honest assessment
Pretty much what I was trying to say. So when the liberal idiots say "negotiations started under Reagan" I LMAO because businesses knew it was coming and started bribing politicians. Politicians finally got paid enough to burn up all those jobs.
Right or wrong, cheap products or not that's how it happened. Better or worse doesn't matter because those in charge didn't give a shit.
How would we be better off? You completely ignored the example I gave to why protectionism can't increase the standard of living or GDP. It's a net loss to the economy because the cost of goods and services will increase by more than the increase in salaries from additional manufacturing. Everyone who has posted in favor of protectionism has provided nothing more than anecdote in support of their position. Anecdote proves nothing. Why will the net wealth of the nation increase because of protectionism?
Cool, leave then bud! This country ain't for you I guess. I'm sure there are better options out there somewhere.......
I wouldn't take it as an insult if it was an insult, hoss. Do you feel better? Smarter? Or whatever typing accomplishment there is to explain you being better than me? Good for you.
I'm not throwing shade either when I say you are the type that clearly is the problem with this country. Stand by and point the finger at what's wrong with the best country to live in while doing as little as possible on your part.
Hopefully your not on any kind of welfare since you seem at least smart enough to earn a small living.
The truth is it doesn't matter if would have been better off. Our nation wasn't prepared for what happened.
We have come out of other era's for the better and into a new era. This time it was the opposite and went bad, and simply put we are in a service era and if you don't have a clue how to make yourself an asset as an employee other than showing up to clock in day to day then you will be canned.
Not everyone has enough work ethic to meet that standard.
We have come out of other era's for the better and into a new era. This time it was the opposite and went bad, and simply put we are in a service era and if you don't have a clue how to make yourself an asset as an employee other than showing up to clock in day to day then you will be canned.
Not everyone has enough work ethic to meet that standard.
I donate to causes that I think will advance the cause for the average American to do better without government force. What do you do besides say this is the best country to live in? Sounds like you're really helping! Status quo, baby! WOOHOO!
How have you gathered I do "as little as possible?" Do as little as possible seems to be your route: stay uneducated as to how government works, never challenge authority, resist change. Don't worry, bub. I don't need/accept relief. I do just fine
I'm not following your point. Of course it matters if we are better off or not. That is the point. Does protecting manufacturing make us better off or not? Whether or not we were, and are, prepared for change, is not really the point. We can be unprepared and still be better off than if we taxed imports to protect manufacturing.
You donate money? Congrats!
Only job I've ever seen you post about was a tax free grass cutting position. Again congrats!
Resist change? I'm all for the change Trump will bring. I'm sure the America he remembers will have mouthy piss ants like you feeling pretty irrelevant.
I'm well aware of how our govt works, and it's flaws. Libertarian blowhards on the other hand are convinced they know more and are more valuable than they actually are.
The only education I don't have is reading and writing and thats because both were completely boring as watching paint dry to me. Being the business minded young gent that I am I bartered pot for English papers all through school.
See I was smart enough to know my weakness and overcome them the American way.
Only job I've ever seen you post about was a tax free grass cutting position. Again congrats!
Resist change? I'm all for the change Trump will bring. I'm sure the America he remembers will have mouthy piss ants like you feeling pretty irrelevant.
I'm well aware of how our govt works, and it's flaws. Libertarian blowhards on the other hand are convinced they know more and are more valuable than they actually are.
The only education I don't have is reading and writing and thats because both were completely boring as watching paint dry to me. Being the business minded young gent that I am I bartered pot for English papers all through school.
See I was smart enough to know my weakness and overcome them the American way.
Protectionalism isn't the problem.......protecting pointless or overpaid jobs were not the problem.
As a nation we were not better off, but corporate America was and those that had non factory jobs kept their buying power.
But as a means to overcome we were granted 2 different bailouts and while buying cheap shit is great for you, most of that cheap shit goes to waste and wasn't worth the damage it has eventually done to the country.
Had those businesses challenged their employees to get their educations, not be so dependent on repetitive jobs, gave any sort of warnings that those jobs were going to be gone instead of buying politicians to pass legislation and then closing shop one random day then yes we could have come out of it a little better.
1) You said I did nothing. I donate money to organizations who do things I agree with. Pretty straightforward. Not sure how providing organizations with capital to operate is "doing nothing." Should I volunteer my time? Please advise how labor is more important than capital. TIA.
2) That was when was in high school. I'm not posting my current job on here because it's an internet message board. It doesn't matter and I don't care if weirdos know what I do for living.
3) ?
4) Please give examples of how libertarians (more often than not, people who have rigorously researched their positions) don't understand how government works. And maybe some examples of how you do know how it works.
5) This is where we agree. America is a great country because even though we have veered off of the Constitutional path, it has still guided us to a point where a semi-literate, slack-jaw moron like yourself can eek out a living. That is truly amazing and something we should be proud of.
krazy also literally changes the subject every post. I'll wait for his reply, then I'll be done. Exercise in futility.
Not trying to hurt the poors. I absolutely want to help them. Giving stuff to them IS targeting them; it's using them; it's manipulating them. If we could get them working and develop a little pride in accomplishment, they'd laugh at candidates like hillury and bernie.
No. They were way inflated before. If you think a dr or lawyer skill level is the same as someone pulling a lever, then I'm afraid you're way off base.
Actually it's reverse. It would be better short term, worse long term
No, the markets would dive in the short term, due to the fact that change was coming.
Long term it would be beneficial to the well being of the nation.
Inflated compared to what? A third world country?
I didn't say a the "lever puller" had the skill set of a Dr or lawyer, I specifically said a third world Dr or lawyer compared to a US counterpart. If we're going to use the third world market as a standard why stop at factory workers?
I agree Ram. But subsidises are target too. Same thing.
But as you know by working with people, there are some people who aren't gonna learn "pride"
Do I see a Make America White Again Republican calling a Libertarian an idiot while admitting reading and writing aren't his thing?
This is amazing. I love the political thread.
![[thumb2]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1684387.png "Thumbs Up 2 [thumb2]")
This is amazing. I love the political thread.
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