POLITICAL THREAD

[Mojocat]

This is a coronation tonight. This is our nominee who is going to beat Crooked Hillary.

I really believe he can beat Clinton one on one.

He'd beat her like a rented mule.

This is amazing. Really. Look, I take a backseat to no one in my distrust of media. Can't stand them, don't trust them. And pollsters have been wrong before, Lord knows. But they've never been wrong like what it would take for Trump to win a national election. This isn't some local mayoral race, where they just get the dynamics wrong. The national polls in presidential election are general pretty good. Some 60%+ percent say they can't stand Trump. Huge numbers would not vote for him under any circumstances. She is a very weak candidate. And maybe all the experts are just flat wrong on this.

But the overwhelmingly like outcome is by October, and probably much earlier, it will be obvious that Trump is going to lose, and most likely in a historic Mondale or McGovern fashion. The only question will be how far he drags down the rest of the R candidates.

(None of the above applies on the off chance that Hillary gets indicted. My guess is the chances of that approach zero.)

 

[starchief5]

Your Tea party has killed conservative politics, especially the evangelicals being 100% responsible.

Republican party needs to be rebuilt without the emphasis on Jesus Christ. Sorry. That's the truth.

Willy, the Republican/Conservative party is dead in the water without the support of evangelicals. And always will be.The only political/moral issue that evangelicals stand firm on is abortion-on-demand. We may grumble about the other moral/social issues (gay marriage,etc) but we'll oppose abortion-on-demand (and fight against it) no matter how small a minority in politics we may become. It's a dilemma.

 

[Willy4UK]

But the overwhelmingly like outcome is by October, and probably much earlier, it will be obvious that Trump is going to lose, and most likely in a historic Mondale or McGovern fashion. The only question will be how far he drags down the rest of the R candidates.

Buddy, they are already rock bottom. They are awful Mojo. No amount of shit polishing will make these turds shine. You're a very smart guy, but damn if you aren't buying into the rigidity.

Trump will poll better than McCain or Romney in a national election. I'll bet a $100 bucks on it (not Fuzz because he won't pay)

 

[starchief5]

If Trump's team is smart they'll trot out Bobby to the podium for a couple "ring" cracks during the appearances.

"I COACHED BASKETBALL FOR 50 YEARS AND I NEVER HEARD ONE FAGG.....<Trump operative whispers in his ear>...I NEVER HEARD ONE SISS....<Trump operative whispers in his ear>...I NEVER HEARD ONE GUY CALL A BASKETBALL HOOP A RING. WHAT A FAG."

<ushered off stage to muted applause>

I guess if it's inevitable we might as well lie back and enjoy it.

 

[Willy4UK]

Willy, the Republican/Conservative party is dead in the water without the support of evangelicals. And always will be.The only political/moral issue that evangelicals stand firm on is abortion-on-demand. We may grumble about the other moral/social issues (gay marriage,etc) but we'll oppose abortion-on-demand (and fight against it) no matter how small a minority in politics we may become. It's a dilemma.

Totally agree Starchief

 

[wkycatfan]

Still can't figure out how abortion got labelled a religious issue.

Unfortunately, we are increasingly living in a society where the lines of right and wrong are blurred, and increasingly gray, all in the name of 'liberty'. Being politically correct and railing against authority rules the day.

Morality and acknowledgment of a higher power tells you a lot about a society.

IMHO.

 

[wkycatfan]

I guess if it's inevitable we might as well lie back and enjoy it.

Maybe 'Coach' Knight will throw a chair at a protester at some point.

 

[argubs2]

The new polls coming out in regard to Trump v Hillur are really interesting. The general is going to be much, much closer than anyone is conveying right now, simply out of pure fear I'd imagine. His unfavorables are insane but hers aren't much better.

His margins last night were wild. This is truly unprecedented.

 

[Mojocat]

Your Tea party has killed conservative politics, especially the evangelicals being 100% responsible.

Republican party needs to be rebuilt without the emphasis on Jesus Christ. Sorry. That's the truth.

It's an interesting dilemma, Willy. I generally with your lumping of Tea Partiers and Evangelicals together - there is some overlap there, but I think they are two distinct groups. But you hit on the key vexation of the Rs going forward - how to get the various subgroups to live together, and specifically what is the role of religion in the party. For most of my life, the 3 so-called legs of the party (the pro-America/pro-military defense hawks; the free market/low tax small government types; and the evangelicals) lived together peacefully. I think the former two were a little uncomfortable with the religious crowd, but they weren't really causing any problems. And then that group got bigger, and bigger, and had more and more clout. And now here we are.

You can't just excommunicate the church going crowd - that would leave too big a hole, not enough Rs left to have a viable competitive party.

 

[Willy4UK]

Still can't figure out how abortion got labelled a religious issue.

Unfortunately, we are increasingly living in a society where the lines of right and wrong are blurred, and increasingly gray, all in the name of 'liberty'.

Really? I totally can see why it was labelled.

The will of the people will make things right. Regardless if you cling those old ways. You do not get to decide on behalf of the majority. Liberty is free individuals. Gay or other ethical backgrounds. A free man is a free man and your religious beliefs WILL NOT prevent freedom for individuals. Either deny it or go with it, the world will continue to progress. Lincoln is the IDEAL Republican.

 

[Willy4UK]

It's an interesting dilemma, Willy. I generally with your lumping of Tea Partiers and Evangelicals together - there is some overlap there, but I think they are two distinct groups. But you hit on the key vexation of the Rs going forward - how to get the various subgroups to live together, and specifically what is the role of religion in the party. For most of my life, the 3 so-called legs of the party (the pro-America/pro-military defense hawks; the free market/low tax small government types; and the evangelicals) lived together peacefully. I think the former two were a little uncomfortable with the religious crowd, but they weren't really causing any problems. And then that group got bigger, and bigger, and had more and more clout. And now here we are.

You can't just excommunicate the church going crowd - that would leave too big a hole, not enough Rs left to have a viable competitive party.

Beautifully said Mojo.

 

[Willy4UK]

The new polls coming out in regard to Trump v Hillur are really interesting. The general is going to be much, much closer than anyone is conveying right now, simply out of pure fear I'd imagine. His unfavorables are insane but hers aren't much better.

His margins last night were wild. This is truly unprecedented.

Will be a lot of closet Trump voters. Who won't admit it.

That's the stat that will scratch heads once they see how he will prevail.

 

[wkycatfan]

Really? I totally can see why it was labelled.

The will of the people will make things right. Regardless if you cling those old ways. You do not get to decide on behalf of the majority. Liberty is free individuals. Gay or other ethical backgrounds. A free man is a free man and your religious beliefs WILL NOT prevent freedom for individuals. Either deny it or go with it, the world will continue to progress. Lincoln is the IDEAL Republican.

The will of the people gave us the French and Russian revolutions. While there were some justifications for both, neither turned out too well.

 

[qwesley]

Buddy, they are already rock bottom

Over the past six years they have taken both the Senate and the House and flipped statehouses around the country at a historic rate. Rock bottom will be Hillary with Pelosi and Schumer leading the Congress with zero check and balances.

 

[Willy4UK]

The will of the people gave us the French and Russian revolutions. While there were some justifications for both, neither turned out too well.

and over the course of time, people will get things right. That is the only spiritual belief I hold

 

[Willy4UK]

Over the past six years they have taken both the Senate and the House and flipped statehouses around the country at a historic rate. Rock bottom will be Hillary with Pelosi and Schumer leading the Congress with zero check and balances.

You're right Qwes.

I wasn't contesting those in Senate and Congress. I'm talking about a figurehead. A leader. Which is what I am right about.

 

[wkycatfan]

Willy, you have more faith in people than I do.

 

[argubs2]

Cruz apparently naming Fiorina as his VP choice lol

 

[Willy4UK]

Willy, you have more faith in people than I do.

Man, it's a love hate relationship. I just hate the abuse of power and injustice and imbalance.

 

[Mojocat]

Buddy, they are already rock bottom. They are awful Mojo. No amount of shit polishing will make these turds shine. You're a very smart guy, but damn if you aren't buying into the rigidity.

Trump will poll better than McCain or Romney in a national election. I'll bet a $100 bucks on it (not Fuzz because he won't pay)

I hope you're right. The way I look at it is this. Look, Trump could turn out to be a disaster. But that means there's a chance he won't be a disaster. There is zero chance there is anything redeeming about a Hillary presidency. Easy choice!

(is this kind of like version of political Stockholm syndrome? heh).....

 

[Willy4UK]

I hope you're right. The way I look at it is this. Look, Trump could turn out to be a disaster. But that means there's a chance he won't be a disaster. There is zero chance there is anything redeeming about a Hillary presidency. Easy choice!

(is this kind of like version of political Stockholm syndrome? heh).....

I listened to Trump's speech last night and came to the thought. "Could he be worse than Obama" That's my litmus test.

 

[m080470]

I think Trump ends up winning the national election going away. I think Republicans end up coalescing around him, especially w/a Rubio VP and Cruz as possible Supreme Court nominee. I think that would be enough of an olive branch to get everyone on board. I think Trump picks up large numbers of working class democrats, vast majority of independents, a small slice of Bernie supporters who think the system is rigged and and maybe as much as 15% of the AfricanAmerican vote (some polls show African-American having as high as a 30% favorable view of Trump which when you look at number of Republicans getting less than 5% of this vote typically, anything greater than 10% would augur disaster for the Democrats).
I think Hillary just lacks the charisma needed, her husband had it, Obama has it, she doesn't. I haven't seen it brought up as a possibility but could she name Bernie as VP? It might enable her to capture a lot of his energy and support.

 

[P19978]

Will be a lot of closet Trump voters. Who won't admit it.

I suspect this number is much bigger than anyone on the left wants to believe.


I'm in the investment business and talk to clients all day long every day.

While affluent investors tend to vote R instead of D, Trump is far and way the choice. I bet its 95/5 Trump over Clinton.

Count me as not believing the polls at all.

 

[DSmith21]

Cruz to announce Fiorina as his running mate. One of the most desperate moves ever. He is not getting the nomination. It must suck putting that much effort and money into a campaign only to come up a distant 2nd.

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

I think Trump ends up winning the national election going away. I think Republicans end up coalescing around him, especially w/a Rubio VP and Cruz as possible Supreme Court nominee. I think that would be enough of an olive branch to get everyone on board. I think Trump picks up large numbers of working class democrats, vast majority of independents, a small slice of Bernie supporters who think the system is rigged and and maybe as much as 15% of the AfricanAmerican vote (some polls show African-American having as high as a 30% favorable view of Trump which when you look at number of Republicans getting less than 5% of this vote typically, anything greater than 10% would augur disaster for the Democrats).

 

[From-the-stands]

I suspect this number is much bigger than anyone on the left wants to believe.


I'm in the investment business and talk to clients all day long every day.

While affluent investors tend to vote R instead of D, Trump is far and way the choice. I bet its 95/5 Trump over Clinton.

Count me as not believing the polls at all.

Wall Street does not want Trump. They would rather have Hillary.

 

[starchief5]

Really? I totally can see why it was labelled.

The will of the people will make things right. Regardless if you cling those old ways. You do not get to decide on behalf of the majority. Liberty is free individuals. Gay or other ethical backgrounds. A free man is a free man and your religious beliefs WILL NOT prevent freedom for individuals. Either deny it or go with it, the world will continue to progress. Lincoln is the IDEAL Republican.

"Old ways": Dominant from ? BC untill about mid 1960s AD

New ways: Slow start earlier, but picked up speed quickly in last ten years.

I wouldn't declare victory this soon. Society does change its mind sometimes about what works and what doesn't.

 

[starchief5]

Wall Street does not want Trump. They would rather have Hillary.

Duh. She owes them big time.

 

[ram1955]

The problem for me, is that Trump is way too close to being a democrat in a lot of ways, for my liking. I would need some kind of assurances that he would surround himself with a good number of conservative people in his cabinet and staff to cause me to consider not staying home for the first time in my life during a presidential election. Right now, I just don't want my fingerprints on a Trump presidency.

If Trump is close to being a demo, where does that put hillury?

 

[ram1955]

Still can't figure out how abortion got labelled a religious issue.

Unfortunately, we are increasingly living in a society where the lines of right and wrong are blurred, and increasingly gray, all in the name of 'liberty'. Being politically correct and railing against authority rules the day.

Morality and acknowledgment of a higher power tells you a lot about a society.

IMHO.

Because it's a matter of right and wrong. The lines may be blurred but it's only due to the inability/unwillingness of society to see the truth.

In most cases, abortion is simply premeditated murder. A case for abortion can be made when it involves life/death issues. Even then, my wife would have chosen to die vs killing her baby.

 

[qwesley]

Because it's a matter of right and wrong. The lines may be blurred but it's only due to the inability/unwillingness of society to see the truth.

In most cases, abortion is simply premeditated murder. A case for abortion can be made when it involves life/death issues. Even then, my wife would have chosen to die vs killing her baby.

Contrary to popular belief and media narratives (you would think 80+% of all americans were pro choice if you guessed reading the headlines) younger people, who are shunning religion at a higher rate, are also shunning the blind acceptance of abortion being a simple medical procedure.

Young Americans — voters under 30 — were once the most gung-ho in support of unfettered legal abortion. In 1991, fully 36 percent believed abortion should be legal under any circumstances. But by 2010, 18-to-29-year-olds had become more pro-life than their parents — only 24 percent still wanted to keep abortion legal in all cases. More than any other age cohort, in fact, young adults are now the most likely to think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...ood-reasons/ZCmZNJuCWKVr5brzVfaiuI/story.html

 

[fuzz77]

Because it's a matter of right and wrong. The lines may be blurred but it's only due to the inability/unwillingness of society to see the truth.

In most cases, abortion is simply premeditated murder. A case for abortion can be made when it involves life/death issues. Even then, my wife would have chosen to die vs killing her baby.

ram, I hope that you can admit that what you call "the truth" is YOUR belief based upon YOUR sense of morals and is not a belief that is universally shared. Some people feel just as strongly that killing animals for the multitude of reasons we do so is murder as well. If you respect life then shouldn't you respect all life?
The same questions surround end-of-life issues. I find it quite hypocritical of our society that we rationalize that euthanizing animals is often the "humane" thing to do but many object to extending that same humane treatment to humans.

Most of those who object to abortion say they do so based or rooted in their religious beliefs. That being the case then why should your religious beliefs trump mine? Not all Christian faiths think that abortion should be outlawed. I am Presbyterian and my church's position is that abortion is as follows:
"When an individual woman faces the decision whether to terminate a pregnancy, the issue is intensely personal, and may manifest itself in ways that do not reflect public rhetoric, or do not fit neatly into medical, legal, or policy guidelines. Humans are empowered by the spirit prayerfully to make significant moral choices, including the choice to continue or end a pregnancy. Human choices should not be made in a moral vacuum, but must be based on Scripture, faith, and Christian ethics. For any choice, we are accountable to God; however, even when we err, God offers to forgive us.".

Presbyterians aren't alone. The United Methodist Church position is:
"The beginning of life and the ending of life are the God-given boundaries of human existence. While individuals have always had some degree of control over when they would die, they now have the awesome power to determine when and even whether new individuals will be born. Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion.

But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother and the unborn child.

We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184)."

United Church of Christ:
"God has given us life, and life is sacred and good. God has also given us the responsibility to make decisions which reflect a reverence for life in circumstances when conflicting realities are present. Jesus affirmed women as full partners in the faith, capable of making decisions that affect their lives...

The United Church of Christ has affirmed and re-affirmed since 1971 that access to safe and legal abortion is consistent with a woman’s right to follow the dictates of her own faith and beliefs in determining when and if she should have children...
We have also supported that women with limited financial means should be able to receive public funding in order to exercise her legal right to the full range of reproductive health services. What is legally available to women must be accessible to all women."

So is it right for you to ask others to respect your religious beliefs but you in turn don't show that same respect to other faiths?

 

[P19978]

Wall Street does not want Trump. They would rather have Hillary.

Agreed but I'm referring to individual investors, not wall st

 

[ram1955]

ram, I hope that you can admit that what you call "the truth" is YOUR belief based upon YOUR sense of morals and is not a belief that is universally shared. Some people feel just as strongly that killing animals for the multitude of reasons we do so is murder as well. If you respect life then shouldn't you respect all life?
The same questions surround end-of-life issues. I find it quite hypocritical of our society that we rationalize that euthanizing animals is often the "humane" thing to do but many object to extending that same humane treatment to humans.

Most of those who object to abortion say they do so based or rooted in their religious beliefs. That being the case then why should your religious beliefs trump mine? Not all Christian faiths think that abortion should be outlawed. I am Presbyterian and my church's position is that abortion is as follows:
"When an individual woman faces the decision whether to terminate a pregnancy, the issue is intensely personal, and may manifest itself in ways that do not reflect public rhetoric, or do not fit neatly into medical, legal, or policy guidelines. Humans are empowered by the spirit prayerfully to make significant moral choices, including the choice to continue or end a pregnancy. Human choices should not be made in a moral vacuum, but must be based on Scripture, faith, and Christian ethics. For any choice, we are accountable to God; however, even when we err, God offers to forgive us.".

Presbyterians aren't alone. The United Methodist Church position is:
"The beginning of life and the ending of life are the God-given boundaries of human existence. While individuals have always had some degree of control over when they would die, they now have the awesome power to determine when and even whether new individuals will be born. Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion.

But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother and the unborn child.

We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184)."

United Church of Christ:
"God has given us life, and life is sacred and good. God has also given us the responsibility to make decisions which reflect a reverence for life in circumstances when conflicting realities are present. Jesus affirmed women as full partners in the faith, capable of making decisions that affect their lives...

The United Church of Christ has affirmed and re-affirmed since 1971 that access to safe and legal abortion is consistent with a woman’s right to follow the dictates of her own faith and beliefs in determining when and if she should have children...
We have also supported that women with limited financial means should be able to receive public funding in order to exercise her legal right to the full range of reproductive health services. What is legally available to women must be accessible to all women."

So is it right for you to ask others to respect your religious beliefs but you in turn don't show that same respect to other faiths?

Good info Fuzz. The UMC position is in line with my original comment. I don't agree with portions of the others.

I do agree that "my truth" is based on my beliefs. There's a difference in respecting a person's beliefs and respecting a person. As for "feeling" it is wrong to kill animals, I detest any type death, but when Moses walked down off the mountain, he didn't bring anything that said not to kill animals.

Have you ever spoken with a woman that had had an abortion that did not suffer emotionally, if not physically from her decision?

 

[Mime-Is-Money]

This just in, KY WASPs with 401ks might not vote for Hillary.

 

[qwesley]

Other than the drop in dukie, have any of the other liberals/dems dared state their HRC support?

 

[starchief5]

ram, I hope that you can admit that what you call "the truth" is YOUR belief based upon YOUR sense of morals and is not a belief that is universally shared. Some people feel just as strongly that killing animals for the multitude of reasons we do so is murder as well. If you respect life then shouldn't you respect all life?
The same questions surround end-of-life issues. I find it quite hypocritical of our society that we rationalize that euthanizing animals is often the "humane" thing to do but many object to extending that same humane treatment to humans.

Most of those who object to abortion say they do so based or rooted in their religious beliefs. That being the case then why should your religious beliefs trump mine? Not all Christian faiths think that abortion should be outlawed. I am Presbyterian and my church's position is that abortion is as follows:
"When an individual woman faces the decision whether to terminate a pregnancy, the issue is intensely personal, and may manifest itself in ways that do not reflect public rhetoric, or do not fit neatly into medical, legal, or policy guidelines. Humans are empowered by the spirit prayerfully to make significant moral choices, including the choice to continue or end a pregnancy. Human choices should not be made in a moral vacuum, but must be based on Scripture, faith, and Christian ethics. For any choice, we are accountable to God; however, even when we err, God offers to forgive us.".

Presbyterians aren't alone. The United Methodist Church position is:
"The beginning of life and the ending of life are the God-given boundaries of human existence. While individuals have always had some degree of control over when they would die, they now have the awesome power to determine when and even whether new individuals will be born. Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion.

But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother and the unborn child.

We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184)."

United Church of Christ:
"God has given us life, and life is sacred and good. God has also given us the responsibility to make decisions which reflect a reverence for life in circumstances when conflicting realities are present. Jesus affirmed women as full partners in the faith, capable of making decisions that affect their lives...

The United Church of Christ has affirmed and re-affirmed since 1971 that access to safe and legal abortion is consistent with a woman’s right to follow the dictates of her own faith and beliefs in determining when and if she should have children...
We have also supported that women with limited financial means should be able to receive public funding in order to exercise her legal right to the full range of reproductive health services. What is legally available to women must be accessible to all women."

So is it right for you to ask others to respect your religious beliefs but you in turn don't show that same respect to other faiths?

Good grief, fuzz. The denominations you mentioned ((UMC, PCUSA and UCC) have lost members hand over fist lately - and have been for decades. I don't think there is much doubt that their support for abortion, homosexuality and other issues that stray far from orthodox Christianity has a lot (maybe not all) to do with it. I'm not going to bother providing links because all anyone has to do is Google "membership decline in Methodist/Presbyterian/United Church of Christ" and thousands will pop up. I'm not suggesting that all attendees of those churches are off the mark but the denominations and their leaders have long ago abandoned the orthodoxy ship - and are paying a price for it.

 

[fuzz77]

Good info Fuzz. The UMC position is in line with my original comment. I don't agree with portions of the others.

I do agree that "my truth" is based on my beliefs. There's a difference in respecting a person's beliefs and respecting a person. As for "feeling" it is wrong to kill animals, I detest any type death, but when Moses walked down off the mountain, he didn't bring anything that said not to kill animals.

Have you ever spoken with a woman that had had an abortion that did not suffer emotionally, if not physically from her decision?

Moses said, Thou shall not Kill ( or murder)... don't recall him specifying species.

I do know and have discussed with a couple of women over the years who have had abortions. I must say that while neither was proud or happy that they had done so, neither had any regrets at least that they were willing to share.
I do realize that many women do suffer emotionally from the decision. Women (and men) also often suffer emotionally from relationships that go bad, marriages that end in divorces or are strife with violence. Decisions made to say or not say or do or not do things for loved ones. My wife didn't have the best relationship with her mother. It wasn't a bad relationship but there never seemed to be that unconditional love that I always felt from my parents. From my POV their were always petty spats going on somewhere in the triangle of my wife, her mother and sister. I know they all loved each other but they had a difficult time showing it. When her mother suddenly became ill and soon died there were many, many regrets felt by both my wife and her sister. If anything positive came from it is that my wife and her sister have never been closer.
My point is we all make decisions and sometimes we regret those decisions. What we learn and how we move on from those decisions is what matters.

 

[fuzz77]

Good grief, fuzz. The denominations you mentioned ((UMC, PCUSA and UCC) have lost members hand over fist lately - and have been for decades. I don't think there is much doubt that their support for abortion, homosexuality and other issues that stray far from orthodox Christianity has a lot (maybe not all) to do with it. I'm not going to bother providing links because all anyone has to do is Google "membership decline in Methodist/Presbyterian/United Church of Christ" and thousands will pop up. I'm not suggesting that all attendees of those churches are off the mark but the denominations and their leaders have long ago abandoned the orthodoxy ship - and are paying a price for it.

And how has about every other denomination done?
Southern Baptist? down
Lutheran? down
LDS? down
Catholic? down

Don't think any of those support abortion, homosexuality...point being, I can google just about every denomination and find that its membership is declining.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

If the Zika virus spreads throughout the US. How can you not approve abortion when 1 in every 100 births is plagued with small head syndrome (microcephaly)?