Oh? Tell me more about how germans are on the forefront of human/civil rights. *insert willy wonka meme here*
POLITICAL THREAD
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Oh? Tell me more about how germans are on the forefront of human/civil rights. *insert willy wonka meme here*
Well Catdaddy has one fan. A high school trumpet player
If there is one society where the rest of the world should learn & copy the treatment of incarcerated humans, it is the Germans
Norway has a similar set up.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
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Yeah, because things never change and the same folks who were in charge during the 1930's-1945 are still there.
Good find and yes, very similar. The end result is they spend a whole lot less on their prison systems with much, much better results.
"In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.
That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.
On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years."
"In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.
That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.
On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.
That's why Norwegian extremist Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a bombing and mass shooting, was only sentenced to 21 years. Most of the outrage and incredulity over that sentence, however, came from the US.
Overall, Norwegians, even some parents who lost children in the attack, seemed satisfied with the sentence, The New York Times reported. Still, Breivik's sentence, as is, put him behind bars for less than 100 days for every life he took, as The Atlantic noted. On the other hand, if the system doesn't determine Breivik "rehabilitated," he could stay in prison forever. "
Just read this in a book review:
"Conservatives have good reason to view American universities as hostile territory. The 2006 Politics of the American Professoriate survey, conducted by the sociologists Neil Gross and Solon Simmons, found that 17.6% of faculty in the social sciences consider themselves Marxists. Only 3.6% consider themselves conservatives. The same survey suggested that if the election of 2004 had been held exclusively in faculty lounges, John Kerry would have won in a historic landslide, 77.6% to 20.4%."
Academia really is a different world. I wonder if most parents understand what their kids will encounter when they send them off to college........some of that is good, most of it is bad, most of it comes from a perspective that most Americans simply wouldn't recognize.
"Conservatives have good reason to view American universities as hostile territory. The 2006 Politics of the American Professoriate survey, conducted by the sociologists Neil Gross and Solon Simmons, found that 17.6% of faculty in the social sciences consider themselves Marxists. Only 3.6% consider themselves conservatives. The same survey suggested that if the election of 2004 had been held exclusively in faculty lounges, John Kerry would have won in a historic landslide, 77.6% to 20.4%."
Academia really is a different world. I wonder if most parents understand what their kids will encounter when they send them off to college........some of that is good, most of it is bad, most of it comes from a perspective that most Americans simply wouldn't recognize.
When the US privatized Prisons the whole system immediately became about profit for the companies managing those systems. No company has the goal of running itself out of business. And the only way a prison makes money is if it has prisoners. So our system, sadly, is basically designed to create more and more prisoners. And looking at our recidivism rate which shows that around 76% of all inmates are re-arrested within 5 years of release, they are doing a bang-up job.
Until prisons are about rehabilitation as opposed to profit this is going to continue to be a problem.
Until prisons are about rehabilitation as opposed to profit this is going to continue to be a problem.
Notice how that survey says "social sciences". If they said Mathematics, physics, chemistry, economics, etc. the numbers would be completely different. Is is another whitewash trying to create a stereotype to explain why their candidates did poorly. Maybe John Kerry would have won on those campuses because George W. Bush was a terrible candidate.
Brooks, like most NYTimes writers, has his finger firmly on the pulse of nothing. But he could be right here - Trump may go down in flames. As everyone says the map is kind of fixed between red and blue, which means there really can't be any blowouts any more. Trump alone can change the map, for better or worse, so he might actually be capable of a Mondale or McGovern kind of loss.
And I think his ego couldn't take that. I think there's every chance that if it's October and he's clearly going to lose based on polling, that rather than have his obituary start out with something like "biggest loser in history of American politics", he'd bail first. Yeah, I mean after he gets the nomination and before the election. Unheard of, but who is he beholden to, exactly? You think he's worried about the Republican Party or any institution or any individual? No. He's worried about Donald J. Trump and his legacy, and no one else.
A Kasich rep said this weekend they look forward to Trump dropping out of the race. Not at all inconceivable.....
IMHO, this closed minded kind of thinking is what has us where we are. Because a perfect system doesn't exist then we shouldn't think about changing what is certainly a far, far, far from perfect system. We can't look at other working models that might appear to be too lenient because political opponents are looking for points to score and the public in general is too small minded to look at the bigger picture.
How many small time criminals go to prison and because of the conditions end up in a gangs, get out of prison, commit more crimes...maybe even murder? What if data showed that for ever Willy Horton we saved 5 future murders not to mention dozens of other crimes?
The first stat is exclusive to social sciences. The last sentence - that Kerry would've won 78 to 20 - is not, it's across all disciplines.
George Bush was not a "terrible candidate". Terrible candidates don't add 12 million votes to their previous vote totals, or whatever the final tally was. You may think he was a terrible president, but that's not the same thing. I might think Obama has been a terrible president - but it would be lunacy to say he was a terrible candidate.
The point is just how differently - how skewed - the professoriate is relative to the country as a whole.
This would get a much bigger reaction if it went the other way. Imagine a situation in which Bush would've won 78-20. Endless caterwauling and editorials. The world would end.
Mojo, for sure academia is different.
These kids growing up are narcissistic and they want a big, inflated gov't to tell them what to do.
These kids growing up are narcissistic and they want a big, inflated gov't to tell them what to do.
Bush was actually a horrible candidate. He had the second smallest margin of victory for a sitting president, trailing only Andrew Jackson. And Kerry certainly wasn't a good candidate himself. The large number of conservative issues that appeared on state ballots appeared to drive more conservative voters to the polls, as opposed to support for President Bush. I believe there were 17 Defense of Marriage amendments in 2004 and every one of those states saw significant increases in conservative voters.
Deeeee=Fuzz?
If nothing else, I think we stunted Deee's ability or willingness to try and restrict political opinions via Moderator dictate. That really really pissed me off.
If nothing else, I think we stunted Deee's ability or willingness to try and restrict political opinions via Moderator dictate. That really really pissed me off.
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
You don't know me or my thinking. I promise you, nothing I have done or thought has got us where we are.
My post was about Dukakis and his political suicide due to the very topic.
And closed minded? Coming from you?...shew
yeah, just disagree. I keep going back to one thing:
2000 Bush popular vote: 50,456,002
2004 Bush popular vote: 62,040,610
that is a 22.96% increase, which is phenomenal and, I very much suspect, unprecedented. You can argue that it was manufactured by Rove and his DOM amendments, you can argue the power of the incumbency, can argue whatever. He was elected president twice, the second time around got an extra 12 million people to vote for him. Not a terrible candidate, by any definition.
Yeah boy, that Obama deal with the Iranians is sounding better and better by the day. Especially loading up their check book and sending them on a spending spree.
Dumbass.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-at-sea-and-its-the-third-time-in-two-months/
Dumbass.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-at-sea-and-its-the-third-time-in-two-months/
Some of that increase has to attributed to Kerry; one of the worst candidates in history.
People complain about Bush, but look who the Dems ran against him: Gore and Kerry. Two complete idiots who make Trump look like a genius.
... although I will give Gore credit for inventing the Internet...
Gore and Kerry were both more than adequate candidates. Both were just insufferable asses, that turned off the electorate. Gore almost surely wouldve won if he hadnt started his "i invented the internet" buffoonery.
Al Gore may have been the most boring candidate we have ever had. He makes Mike Huckabee look like a Las Vegas street party.
Wish I had a tape of his monotone voice so I could use it on nights I can't sleep
Wish I had a tape of his monotone voice so I could use it on nights I can't sleep
He can't be that bad, they made a movie about him. I Heart Huckabee
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't try to wear it.
You don't know me or my thinking. I promise you, nothing I have done or thought has got us where we are.
My post was about Dukakis and his political suicide due to the very topic.
And closed minded? Coming from you?...shew
My comment, "We can't look at other working models that might appear to be too lenient because political opponents are looking for points to score and the public in general is too small minded to look at the bigger picture." was directed squarely at the "political suicide" angle. There is no data anywhere that shows "being tough on crime" works...but that is the politically safe side to be. Political opponents to change...especially societal change want to jump on the first opportunity to "prove something doesn't work" so they can retreat to their at best, equally ineffective solution. Because there was a "Willie Horton" it didn't prove that the furlough program didn't work anymore than UK losing to Wisc last year prove that Wisc was a better team.
We currently have several generations of criminals that have been "institutionalized" by the current system so best case would take decades to completely change the model. Perhaps the only way you could do it would be to create the "new" system that would incarcerate first timers and those that enter the system from that point forward. Boy! Would that be an interesting social experiment!
I'd add...if you think I'm close minded then you don't know me very well either. The reason I even brought this topic up was the fact that it opened my eyes to a methodology that appears to work much better than our "lock'em up and throw away the key" attitude held by most including me at one time. I'm more interested in what works than who's idea something might be.
meh, it was only 2 stars, but still more entertaining than an "Inconvenient Truth"
On this you and I will disagree.
Gore LOST HIS OWN STATE lol.
Kerry is a traitor.
Kerry also got an extra 8 million votes over Gore... both got more because there were 17 million additional votes casts in 2004 over 2000.
2000 Gore popular vote 50,999,897 out of 105,425,985 total votes
2004 Kerry popular vote 59,028,109 out of 122,303,590 total votes.
Interesting chart that shows just how extreme - overused word but I can't think of a good synonym - that both Sanders and Cruz are. Measures how liberal or conservative a person is, relative to sitting house and senate members. More negative is more liberal. Sanders, no surprise, is out there - but if you believe this, Cruz is further from the mainstream than Sanders. Not sure that computes, given how I keep reading that the Republican Party is much more conservative now than before - if so, not sure it's possible to be that much more conservative now. Formatting is screwed, but can still read....
CANDIDATE PARTY COMMON SPACE SCORE
George McGovern Democrat -0.569
Bernie Sanders Democrat -0.523
Walter Mondale Democrat -0.447
Hubert Humphrey Democrat -0.404
Hillary Clinton Democrat -0.381
John Kerry Democrat -0.373
Barack Obama Democrat -0.363
John F. Kennedy Democrat -0.308
Lyndon Baines Johnson Democrat -0.236
Richard Nixon Republican 0.167
Bob Dole Republican 0.328
John McCain Republican 0.378
Barry Goldwater Republican 0.656
Ted Cruz Republican 0.943
CANDIDATE PARTY COMMON SPACE SCORE
George McGovern Democrat -0.569
Bernie Sanders Democrat -0.523
Walter Mondale Democrat -0.447
Hubert Humphrey Democrat -0.404
Hillary Clinton Democrat -0.381
John Kerry Democrat -0.373
Barack Obama Democrat -0.363
John F. Kennedy Democrat -0.308
Lyndon Baines Johnson Democrat -0.236
Richard Nixon Republican 0.167
Bob Dole Republican 0.328
John McCain Republican 0.378
Barry Goldwater Republican 0.656
Ted Cruz Republican 0.943
Gore wouldve been fine had he learned when to shut up. He just couldnt help himself. Same thing with Kerry - had he not put his military service front and center, he wouldnt have been taken down so hard over the Fonda pics and the swift boat group.
Sadly, both were probably better than the current frontrunners.
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