POLITICAL THREAD

[krazykats]

Fuzz you truly are a special individual. It's as if you didn't even watch republican governors grow from 23 to 31 simply because people are sick of liberals. Or the fact that senate and congress is now majority republican.

The liberal social movement has brought republicans off their couch.....why does it matter what group they are coming from? That's stupid to focus on honestly. It's like me saying Bernie's crowd is going but they were liberal voting youth anyway. May be true but nothing to worry about.

Now if you would kindly post a chart proving me right I'd appreciate it.

 

[krazykats]

Where do you think Sanders $18 trillion in new spending is coming from?

Well if you actually listen to him it's going to be on a 1time tax on the money the corporations have hidden in non-taxable countries. Or at least that's what I heard him explain.

If I honestly thought he could lower income taxes and implement a higher sales tax is probably vote for the guy. Everything else is somewhat irrelevant to me at this point. I mean they are fun talking points but if you improve my world your my guy!

 

[krazykats]

Meanwhile, more huge US companies keep avoiding paying their fair share of taxes by using the tax inversion scheme in which they merge with a smaller foreign country. People may remember Pfizer did this. Johnson controls is the latest, and they will avoid paying 150 billion in tax. This, after we bailed them out in 2008.

It happens all the time, there is a huge wave of companies running to this tax dodge.

Congress refuses to do a damn thing about it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/01/25/johnson-controls-tyco-international-merger/79289344/

Yep this is a huge problem and something NAFTA created. Man what a garbage policy that was.

 

[fuzz77]

Fuzz you truly are a special individual. It's as if you didn't even watch republican governors grow from 23 to 31 simply because people are sick of liberals. Or the fact that senate and congress is now majority republican.

The liberal social movement has brought republicans off their couch.....why does it matter what group they are coming from? That's stupid to focus on honestly. It's like me saying Bernie's crowd is going but they were liberal voting youth anyway. May be true but nothing to worry about.

Now if you would kindly post a chart proving me right I'd appreciate it.

And you're some kind of myopic. I start the chart below in '66 because 1966 starts off as dead even in governor count. Could have started anywhere.
Notice how the count goes back and forth? The 31 GOP governors today was matched or exceeded in 1968, 1969,1995,1996,1997,1998. The problem is when any party gets to power...they actually have to govern and when they do so they usually get voted out in due time because they prove to be no more effective than the ones they replaced. In 1996 there were 32 Republican governors...we elected a Democratic as President. In 1984 there were 34 Democratic governors...we elected a Republican President.

Go ahead and think that state and local politics gives you a good predictor of presidential election results. The data shows the link to be very, very weak.

Year Democrats Republicans Independent President
1966 25 25
1967 24 26
1968 19 31 R
1969 18 32
1970 29 21
1971 30 20
1972 31 19 R
1973 32 18
1974 36 13 1
1976 37 12 1 D
1978 32 18
1979 31 19
1980 27 23 R
1982 34 16
1983 35 15
1984 34 16 R
1986 26 24
1988 28 22 R
1989 29 21
1990 28 20 2
1992 30 18 2 D
1993 29 19 2
1994 19 30 1
1995 18 31 1
1996 17 32 1 D
1998 17 31 2
1999 18 30 2
2000 19 29 2 R
2001 21 27 2
2002 24 26
2004 22 28 R
2006 28 22
2008 29 21 D
2009 26 24
2010 26 23 1
2011 20 29 1
2012 20 29 1 D
2013 20 30
2014 21 29
2015 18 31 1

 

[WettCat]

Oftentimes I read the news and wonder why I even bother....so many things happen so far away that they'll never affect me. But then sometimes I'm reminded that it is a small world.

I was supposed to have spent part of the week in Helsinki working and then on to Stockholm Friday night and all day Saturday doing nothing but playing tourist. With a dear friend of mine who is Tunisian by birth, Canadian by Passport, a PhD from Georgia Tech...and is a Muslim. And physically it is apparent he's from somewhere in the Middle East. I just read where a sizable gang of thugs attacked Muslim immigrants around the Stockholm city center and in the main train station. Basically--where we would have been all day yesterday.

Thankfully--or luckily, my flight was cancelled on Tuesday and I elected to ditch the trip and my friend flew home Friday from Helsinki instead of going to Stockholm. Whether we like it or not, we do live in a small world where actions have impact to us all.

 

[krazykats]

So there are two outliers in the last 20 years and both were for a second term democrat that was either extremely liked by everyone in Clinton or polarizing with a large built in extremely large motivated voting crowd.

Other than that you see the governor to president correlation is pretty clear. Part of the issue is that states like California and NY nationally vote democrat, and the point isn't so much that I'm saying it's the democrat candidate pulling republicans off their couches, it's Obama!

If Obama didn't turn into a damn dictator the last year and half then the dems would be able to take advantage of the republican nominee.

I would be willing to place a large water that we will have the most republican votes ever!

 

[fuzz77]

So there are two outliers in the last 20 years and both were for a second term democrat that was either extremely liked by everyone in Clinton or polarizing with a large built in extremely large motivated voting crowd.

Other than that you see the governor to president correlation is pretty clear. Part of the issue is that states like California and NY nationally vote democrat, and the point isn't so much that I'm saying it's the democrat candidate pulling republicans off their couches, it's Obama!

If Obama didn't turn into a damn dictator the last year and half then the dems would be able to take advantage of the republican nominee.

I would be willing to place a large water that we will have the most republican votes ever!

Your need for glasses is worse than I expected. In the last 50 years...12 presidential elections and 6 times the President elected was from the same party as the majority of govs...6 times it was the opposite party. That hardly makes it an outlier for the opposite party to win.

Most Republican votes ever? Seeing that our population is ever growing that doesn't really mean much. To date, Obama has received the two highest vote counts in the history of Presidential elections. The winner of the last 3 and 4 of the last 5 have had the highest vote counts in history. The 3 previous highest GOP vote counts? McCain, Romney and George W.

As for your comment about Obama turning dictator...I can only assume you are referring to executive orders since the GOP seems obsessed with them. The only problem is that the numbers don't support the rage.
Obama has issued fewer EOs than George W, Bill Clinton, Ronny Reagan... In fact, the last President to issue fewer EOs per year in office than Obama? Grover Cleveland's first term.

 

[qwesley]

Using the quantity only to contrast use of EOs is ungodly lazy.

 

[-LEK-]

No one should feel happy with any of the current candidates. Shame on you all. At this point it's pure rationalizing. Go ahead. Lie to yourself.

Look at this garbage. Sanders , Rubio, etc these people get to power based on Shitty ass Americans. I hate you all, and I hope you die a painful death.

I wish I could get cancer and die. Too chicken for suicide, just wish a disease would just kill me dead so I don't have to live with you plebs. Jesus Goddamn Christ. Death can't come soon enough

 

[-LEK-]

Your need for glasses is worse than I expected. In the last 50 years...12 presidential elections and 6 times the President elected was from the same party as the majority of govs...6 times it was the opposite party. That hardly makes it an outlier for the opposite party to win.

Most Republican votes ever? Seeing that our population is ever growing that doesn't really mean much. To date, Obama has received the two highest vote counts in the history of Presidential elections. The winner of the last 3 and 4 of the last 5 have had the highest vote counts in history. The 3 previous highest GOP vote counts? McCain, Romney and George W.

As for your comment about Obama turning dictator...I can only assume you are referring to executive orders since the GOP seems obsessed with them. The only problem is that the numbers don't support the rage.
Obama has issued fewer EOs than George W, Bill Clinton, Ronny Reagan... In fact, the last President to issue fewer EOs per year in office than Obama? Grover Cleveland's first term.

Bringing the hammer down. But yea, obviously Obamas orders are the worst because Obama.

Obama>facts.

 

[qwesley]

Facts>false equivalence

 

[qwesley]

Executive Order: Protection of Striped Bass and Red Drum Fish Populations - Bush

Pretty much the same as gun control and immgration acts to circumvent Congress.

Hammer? Pfft.

 

[krazykats]

Bringing the hammer? Jesus Christ you guy are some damn idiots!

I don't care about much what my president does because typically he has to get it through congress and senate. Which is fine and can be stupid sometimes. But when he goes against the process for major policies then that trumps quantity. Most of his major EO's not only didn't get congress/senate support it didn't get the populations support either.

That's what I meant by dictator.......quality>quantity.......thought that was given but apparently idiots are idiots.

I've admitted Obama isn't as bad as some(the right) say nor as good as some(socialist) say. So you can lump me where you want, but if your too stupid to step out of a left sided point of view all the time then your politics are just repeated TV talk.

6 of 12......cool. How many times have we had republicans dominate for 5 straight years leading into a major election? The reason I only look at the past 20 or so years and not all of your numbers is simply because both th left and right loved Reagan and Clinton. Also had the liberals had anything better than John Kerry in 04 a democrat would have been elected. But Bush was so bad in his time that it helped Obama skyrocket and gain such high voting numbers......which in turn will absolutely be the same case for republicans.

Of course I can't prove it now because the election is in 10 months. But you'll see. Keep posting about the past though like Clinton(the only dem president besides Obama in the last 36 years) was anywhere near as polarizing as Obama. Which makes your numbers a bit skewed.

 

[-LEK-]

Facts>false equivalence

You're right, Obama has the worst EOs out any president ever. Never mind lower quantity, just obvious his are the worst. I bet next week he will be signing an EO to kill your baby in its sleep. That darn muslim african who gave my baby ptsd.

 

[-LEK-]

Jesus Christ you guy are some damn idiots!

I don't care about much what my president does because typically he has to get it through congress and senate. (Riveting...)
But when he goes against the process for major policies then that trumps quantity.

Most of his major EO's not only didn't get congress/senate support it didn't get the populations support either. (Pretty sure that you have no idea how our government works, but go on...)

That's what I meant by dictator.......quality>quantity.......thought that was given but apparently idiots are idiots.

I've admitted Obama isn't as bad as some(the right) say nor as good as some(socialist) say. So you can lump me where you want, but if your too stupid to step out of a left sided point of view all the time then your politics are just repeated TV talk.

Of course I can't prove it now.

Totally Bro.

 

[From-the-stands]

The final poll coming out out Iowa shows the Marco Rubio has pulled even with Trump and Cruz. It should be an exciting night watching to see who emerges victorious in this emerging dog fight, one once presumed to be a two man race.

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/712079

 

[krazykats]

Actually find the Bernie/Hiliary results more appealing. If Bernie wins somehow the Media and the Clintons will be a hoot to watch work.

Is that grammatically correct for you LEK? I'm not sure I can't handle people poking fun of my typing ability. Really on edge here and about to lose it!

 

[ukalumni00]

Not surprising the generation that made Justin Bieber famous are voting for Bernie.

Bernie voter today- Its my right to get free education, pay no taxes, free free free everything.

Bernie Voter 10-15 years from now- The f'n government is taxing me to death.

 

[JHB4UK]

If you are a young person & are not a raging socialist communist, you have no heart
if you are a grownup and not a low taxes less government more freedom conservative, you have no brain

sounds like Clinton has done the necessary Clintonlike tampering and cheating to pull out the victory tonight. busing in out of staters to caucus, gaming the caucus system by shifting pledges to O'Malley to hurt Sanders, the typical Clinton in action.

 

[qwesley]

 

[JHB4UK]

"Starting....
(checks watch...waits for second hand to get to the top...)
...NOW!"

 

[Willy4UK]

Wait. Is this bitch trying to use reverse psychology? hahah

Sounds like she's pulling some Jedi mind shit to me.

 

[-LEK-]

Actually find the Bernie/Hiliary results more appealing. If Bernie wins somehow the Media and the Clintons will be a hoot to watch work.

Is that grammatically correct for you LEK? I'm not sure I can't handle people poking fun of my typing ability. Really on edge here and about to lose it!

Man, Im just messing with you. I dont care. Just the first go to if you call some one stupid, you check their grammar.

Keep going with it. We all like that banter. Or most of us...

 

[wkycatfan]

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...republican-leaders-ok-caucus-format/32151643/

I dislike Rand Paul because of this.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Hillary is shrewd and untrustworthy, but she's not dumb nor is she surrounded by dumb people. I doubt she'd be organizing some massive international quid pro quo money/policy laundering scheme on a freaking Yahoo account (or whatever it was). She prob did this bc she was lazy and thought she could get away with it. I strongly doubt she was using it to cover up anything.

This. Easiest answer is not the most entertaining. She didn't want others to access her email because she knew she would be running for president. Backfire. Republicans should be happy, though, because it looks like it might kill off a Clinton presidency.

As a nation we truly need to get away from income taxation, at least to a degree. There is simply too much money floating around that wasn't taxes and it puts the working class behind those that evade income taxes.

I support repealing the 16th Amendment, replacing income tax with some sort of consumption tax, and tie the tax to carbon. We end taxation on income, we address climate change in a tax neutral way, and we implement a better, more rational taxation system. Details will be tough to hammer out, but win win win. There are smart ways to address all this stuff, but hard to see the gridlock that we have now making sweeping changes. So we're stuck with the income tax. And healthcare intimately tied to the employer, because an idea so bad that it's laughable for anything else should be the way it is now and always in the US because we had a wage freeze in WWII.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Yep this is a huge problem and something NAFTA created. Man what a garbage policy that was.

No joke. Yet Bill is lauded as one of the greatest presidents ever. What a joke. He mortgaged the future of our country in return for short term economic gain, to make himself look better.

Using the quantity only to contrast use of EOs is ungodly lazy.

Their stupid numbers argument was already defeated handily several pages back. Yet somehow here it comes again.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Executive Order: Protection of Striped Bass and Red Drum Fish Populations - Bush

Pretty much the same as gun control and immgration acts to circumvent Congress.

Hammer? Pfft.

Executive Order 13233
Further Implementation of the Presidential Records Act - basically gutting the Presidential Records Act that insured the Executive branch documents are preserved for historical record.

Executive Order 13292
Gives Vice President more secrecy by classifying documents as a President would.
Extends the automatic declassification of documents from 10 to 25 years and increases any extensions from 10 years to indefinite.

Executive Order 13440
Bypassing Geneva Convention articles on treatment of prisoners.

Undisclosed Executive Order
2001-2007 Allow warrant-less wiretaps of citizens.

Soviet Russia would been proud of these actions.

 

[Willy4UK]

No joke. Yet Bill is lauded as one of the greatest presidents ever. What a joke. He mortgaged the future of our country in return for short term economic gain, to make himself look better.
Their stupid numbers argument was already defeated handily several pages back. Yet somehow here it comes again.

and yet 76% of Republicans absolutely loved NAFTA enough to vote for it.

Just like President Wilson brought on debt to Americans thru the fed Reserve, his main ally in that push came from Nelson Aldrich, a Republican who pushed the fed reserve act through Congress.

Both parties have caused every problem that we face, yet everyone keeps voting them in. hahaha That's insanity.

 

[qwesley]

Did you have a point Salato? Has anyone said Bush did not misuse EOs? The point was quantity is not an argument. You guys get so sensitive when BO gets criticized yet never specifically address his use.

 

[qwesley]

Has Trump being back onboard for universal healthcare changed anyone's support on either side?

 

[P19978]

and yet 76% of Republicans absolutely loved NAFTA enough to vote for it.

Just like President Wilson brought on debt to Americans thru the fed Reserve, his main ally in that push came from Nelson Aldrich, a Republican who pushed the fed reserve act through Congress.

Both parties have caused every problem that we face, yet everyone keeps voting them in. hahaha That's insanity.

IIRC the main attraction to the Repubs was that NAFTA would weaken the unions' power.

 

[Willy4UK]

IIRC the main attraction to the Repubs was that NAFTA would weaken the unions' power.

Yeah, if only foresight was 20/20.

 

[WettCat]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ut-before-you-vote-yours-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

Another must read for any Trump supporters. Just say NO.

 

[fuzz77]

Did you have a point Salato? Has anyone said Bush did not misuse EOs? The point was quantity is not an argument. You guys get so sensitive when BO gets criticized yet never specifically address his use.

So why never a peep about W's EOs when he was in office?
Because you never complain about how something got done when you agree with what was done.

Look, I've got no problem with the complete elimination of the EO process...but neither party would ever agree to it because they want it as an avenue to get things done when they have the office.

It is also funny that you were saying that it was a "quality vs quantity" thing and then giving what I am sure *wink*wink* were randomly chosen EOs from our last two Presidents... Now when actual "quality" EOs are pointed out you claim that it's just not a quantity argument.

Let's discuss the conservative darling Ronald Reagan and EO 12333. It is pretty well the mack-daddy of big brother is watching, orders. It pretty well made the Patriot Act and all subsequent acts that have been added on...redundant. Ronny already gave Uncle Sam the authority to collect all the data from all the people without having to be bothered with pesky warrants. I've never heard a conservative mention it one single time.

I could really not care less if you criticize BO. Just be consistent and if you're going to complain about a legal process that is available to the POTUS...complain when it's your guy doing it too.

 

[fuzz77]

Has Trump being back onboard for universal healthcare changed anyone's support on either side?

When was Trump ever not onboard for universal care?

 

[qwesley]

I could really not care less if you criticize BO.

False, which is why you start ratholing about Bush and Reagan and assign positions to others that are not germane nor provable.

In short, you are a cheerleader. BO upped the ante on EOs and the left, including you, were giddy because it make those ugly repugs mad. That simple.

 

[qwesley]

When was Trump ever not onboard for universal care?

All summer and fall he talked HSA's and replacing Obamacare with "something better" only specifying HSAs.

 

[qwesley]

Don't know why I am going to any trouble to appease fuzz. Cue ratholes and a reference to Gerald Ford etal. Trump this summer:

What I'd like to see is a private system without the artificial lines around every state. I have a big company with thousands of employees. And if I'm negotiating in BY or NJ or CA, I have like one bidder. Nobody can bid. You know why? Because the insurance companies are making a fortune because they have control of the politicians. They're making a fortune. Get rid of the artificial lines and you will have yourself great plans. And then we have to take care of the people that can't take care of themselves. And I will do that through a different system.

Q: But the single payer, you're not interested anymore?

A: No. No, these are different times. And over the years, you are going to change your attitudes. You're going to learn things and you're going to change. And I have evolved on that issue. I have evolved on numerous issues.


Source: Fox News/Facebook Top Ten First Tier debate transcript , Aug 6, 2015

 

[fuzz77]

All summer and fall he talked HSA's and replacing Obamacare with "something better". I don't think he even follow the news.

Did you see his 60 Minutes interview which was done in August (I believe)? (actually September) Of course he wouldn't call it universal care but he said we need to "cover everyone" and that "the government would pay for it". "..have to get rid of private insurance..." But not to worry...there would be so much in savings from other things. LOL.

Hey, I support universal care so it doesn't bother me...I just have found it somewhat funny, other parts sad that so many self-anointed conservatives don't have any clue about what Trump has actually said and supports. They hear "Build a wall" and "bomb ISIS" and they're happy and ready to vote for the guy.
I made the remark a few weeks ago about Trump being close to Sanders...and some of you scoffed. There is a lot more truth to that statement than 99% of Trump supporters ever want to admit.

BTW...I still stand by my prediction that Trump will "Ross Perot" himself at some point.

 

[fuzz77]

Don't know why I am going to any trouble to appease fuzz. Cue ratholes and a reference to Gerald Ford etal. Trump this summer:

What I'd like to see is a private system without the artificial lines around every state. I have a big company with thousands of employees. And if I'm negotiating in BY or NJ or CA, I have like one bidder. Nobody can bid. You know why? Because the insurance companies are making a fortune because they have control of the politicians. They're making a fortune. Get rid of the artificial lines and you will have yourself great plans. And then we have to take care of the people that can't take care of themselves. And I will do that through a different system.

Q: But the single payer, you're not interested anymore?

A: No. No, these are different times. And over the years, you are going to change your attitudes. You're going to learn things and you're going to change. And I have evolved on that issue. I have evolved on numerous issues.


Source: Fox News/Facebook Top Ten First Tier debate transcript , Aug 6, 2015

Scott Pelley: What's your plan for Obamacare?
Donald Trump: Obamacare's going to be repealed and replaced. Obamacare is a disaster if you look at what's going on with premiums where they're up 45, 50, 55 percent.
Scott Pelley: How do you fix it?
Donald Trump: There's many different ways, by the way. Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, "No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private." But--
Scott Pelley: Universal health care?
Donald Trump: I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now.
Scott Pelley: The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?
Donald Trump: They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably--
Scott Pelley: Make a deal? Who pays for it?
Donald Trump: --the government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything.

Source: 60 Minutes , Sept 27, 2015

Not sure about you Q...but that sounds pretty damn close to universal health care to me.