POLITICAL THREAD

[wkycatfan]

Just wondering what you think happens to those gooey entanglement blobs when the mother miscarries? They go on to be with the lort?

I can't tell you for sure. I think God values all life, and the life that matters most is the afterlife, not this life. I've given this more thought than most, since our first attempt was an ectopic pregnancy. I was pulled off the golf course to take my wife to the ER with this. The ER doc told me there was no choice but to perform the surgery or my wife would bleed to death. Life of the mother.

 

[jamo0001]

I can't tell you for sure. I think God values all life, and the life that matters most is the afterlife, not this life. I've given this more thought than most, since our first attempt was an ectopic pregnancy. I was pulled off the golf course to take my wife to the ER with this. The ER doc told me there was no choice but to perform the surgery or my wife would bleed to death. Life of the mother.

Yep. It's a situation that's unique within the human experience. And that's why I really don't find it helpful when people throw around dogmatic (religious?) opinions, calling people "murderers" for using Plan B contraception, etc.

The idea of "personhood at conception" is a sloppy one and barely even attached to reality.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

I can't tell you for sure. I think God values all life, and the life that matters most is the afterlife, not this life. I've given this more thought than most, since our first attempt was an ectopic pregnancy. I was pulled off the golf course to take my wife to the ER with this. The ER doc told me there was no choice but to perform the surgery or my wife would bleed to death. Life of the mother.

The life that matters most is the one you don't even know exists. Got it.

 

[wkycatfan]

Yep. It's a situation that's unique within the human experience. And that's why I really don't find it helpful when people throw around dogmatic (religious?) opinions, calling people "murderers" for using Plan B contraception, etc.

The idea of "personhood at conception" is a sloppy one and barely even attached to reality.

Apparently the 'glob of tissue' already had a blood type, since my wife had to have a RhoGAM shot to prepare for the next pregnancy. Do nonpersons have blood types?

 

[wkycatfan]

Bill C summed it up nicely.

I'm done with this debate. It's a financial burden on tax payers and I'll leave it at that.

That's a slippery slope, IMO.

 

[jamo0001]

Apparently the 'glob of tissue' already had a blood type, since my wife had to have a RhoGAM shot to prepare for the next pregnancy. Do nonpersons have blood types?

Sure. Lots of organisms do.

If somebody thinks that dropping a petri dish full of zygotes on the ground is the equivalent of shooting a dozen grown women in the head, then I'll just have to agree to disagree with them.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Of course it's a slippery slope. Just like the gay marriage arguments. When the entire argument is based on emotion, your not going to actually find a line. Some people are going to be happy, others are going to be discriminated against.

It'd be my preference to just hand out lump sum cash payments for sterilization that could be returned years down the road to become unsterilized, and the person returning the payment could keep all the income and growth from the money.

If I had Obama's executive dictate power, I'd make that happen tomorrow.

 

[jamo0001]

That's a slippery slope, IMO.

So is "any zygote is entitled to full human rights". It leads you to some pretty absurd places both legally and ethically.

Admittedly, the same holds true for the right to "choose".

Again, pregnancy is a unique thing. Our typical constructs for western ethics begin to break down within extremes like pregnancy.

 

[P19978]

I don't agree. Just because you call it murder, doesn't mean it's murder.

With all due respect, and I'm being sincere (which is rare for me on this site)... tell that to the child.

 

[jamo0001]

With all due respect, and I'm being sincere (which is rare for me on this site)... tell that to the child.

*yells at uterus of a woman who can't even tell she's pregnant yet*

 

[DaBossIsBack]

*yells at uterus of a woman who can't even tell she's pregnant yet*

It can't even hear until 5 months.

 

[qwesley]

Are you claiming that Presbyterians, Methodist, United Church of Christ, Episcopal, Lutheran just to name a few...aren't Christians?
They are all denominations of Christianity that support a woman's right to choose.

Mostly false per Pew.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/religious-groups-official-positions-on-abortion/

 

[jamo0001]

Mostly false per Pew.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/religious-groups-official-positions-on-abortion/

Not too often that the LDS church comes across as the reasonable ones in the religious crowd.

 

[qwesley]

Pretty clear we should join the rest of the civilized world and follow the opinion of the significant majority of Americans and ban after 20-22 weeks. Pretty simple. HRC and Bernie are radicals...statistically. Settled data science.

 

[qwesley]

Not too often that the LDS church comes across as the reasonable ones in the religious crowd.

they rapey

 

[qwesley]

Does fuzz put $1000 IOUs in the collection plate each Sunday?

 

[ukalumni00]

Everything Trump does are calculated risks and he has been one step ahead of everyone else. Skipping this debate will prove to be yet another genius move on his part. Say what you want about him, but the guy did not get as rich and famous as he has by being an idiot. He knows exactly what he is doing.

 

[jamo0001]

Pretty clear we should join the rest of the civilized world and follow the opinion of the significant majority of Americans and ban after 20-22 weeks. Pretty simple. HRC and Bernie are radicals...statistically. Settled data science.

that knife cuts both ways

 

[qwesley]

that knife cuts both ways

Exactly, thus where all this started is with the comment that Dems are never on defense on the issue and Reps always are.

 

[jamo0001]

Exactly, thus where all this started is with the comment that Dems are never on defense on the issue and Reps always are.

Have there been many legislative (or judicial, for that matter) efforts over the past decade to expand abortion rights? I honestly don't know.

 

[Supreme Lord Z]

It'd be my preference to just hand out lump sum cash payments for sterilization that could be returned years down the road to become unsterilized, and the person returning the payment could keep all the income and growth from the money.

If I had Obama's executive dictate power, I'd make that happen tomorrow.

That sounds like a huge government program to me. Welcome to the dark side, Bill.

 

[fuzz77]

Mostly false per Pew.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/religious-groups-official-positions-on-abortion/

Why would you use Pew to filter and not go straight to the denomination's own websites?

From the Presbyterian Church's own website.
Abortion Issues
Presbyterians have struggled with the issue of abortion for more than 30 years, beginning in 1970 when the General Assembly, the national governing body of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), declared that “the artificial or induced termination of a pregnancy is a matter of careful ethical decision of the patient … and therefore should not be restricted by law …”

From umc.org...
We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers.

From ucc.org...
National Religious Leaders Stand With Planned Parenthood
In September of 2015, 44 nationally recognized religious leaders, including Rev. John Dorhauer, General Minister and President of the United Church of Christ, released a joint statement supporting Planned Parenthood and urging Congress to resist efforts to deny federal funding to Planned Parenthood’s health centers – which serve 2.7 million people each year. Together, these Christian, Jewish, Catholic, Unitarian Universalist, and Muslim leaders agreed:
“As religious leaders, we urge Congress to resist efforts to deny federal funds to Planned Parenthood’s non-profit health centers, and other organizations that provide crucial reproductive health care. We ask for an end to politically motivated attacks on women’s sexual and reproductive health. We know that Planned Parenthood provides essential lifesaving services to almost three million people each year, including the most vulnerable families in the U.S. As religious leaders, we support family planning as a means of saving lives, improving reproductive and public health, enhancing sexuality, and encouraging intentional parenthood. We stand with people of faith who have supported Planned Parenthood for nearly one hundred years.”

Need I post more? Nobody cheers abortions but many people believe that they should remain legal and safe.

 

[Bill Cosby]

That sounds like a huge government program to me. Welcome to the dark side, Bill.

Under my program, I bet the population would shrink so much by 2030 we could each use one of your old usernames.

Probably solve global heating to.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Choosing abortion is certainly dealing with the consequences of ones actions, that choice just contradicts the strict religious beliefs of Islam and Christianity that a fertilized zygote or embryo equates to a viable human child.

For who? The choice definitely is of consequence to the child, since it dies. To the mother, its money spent (assuming its not done for free) and a procedure.

I dont even care about religion. Im talking about killing an unborn child out of convenience.

 

[ukalumni00]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-is-shocking-vulgar-and-right-213572

 

[Big_Blue79]

FTFY

!

Everything Trump does are calculated risks and he has been one step ahead of everyone else. Skipping this debate will prove to be yet another genius move on his part. Say what you want about him, but the guy did not get as rich and famous as he has by being an idiot. He knows exactly what he is doing.

He was born rich. Depending on estimates (it's not clear how much his father left him and when, and it's not clear how much he is worth now), he may have performed better by simply investing his money in a fund tracking the S&P 500 and reinvesting the dividends. Give me a Buffet or tech billionaire every day of the week. Or anyone on Shark Tank.

 

[Mojocat]

1. Surprised you all haven't come to some consensus on abortion.

2. Watching this debate, FoxNews - friend of the right - is killing these guys. Video clip after clip showing contradictory or inconsistent statements. The most devastating kind of evidence. The very kind of thing that ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/MSNBC would never do to a Democrat. A little amazing.

3. The more I see of Cruz and Trump, the more I'm convinced that if either is the nominee, not only will Republicans lose the White House but will also lose several other races it would otherwise win.

 

[From-the-stands]

Trump
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

And the seven dwarfs

 

[KingOfBBN]

Didn't see the debate but I'm sure liberal talking heads will tug one out and sharpen the fangs about mocking every candidate.

Meanwhile they will keep making sure the Dem debates occur when no one is watching (Saturday and Sunday), even schedule them during NFL playoffs so you can't see what a joke they are. They will get a pass on that all while they stir the focus to mocking the GOP.

 

[krazykats]

Actually Hiliary thinks thinks surprise debates will help. I'm proud of Bernie for saying no honestly. Hiliary is done, again, and just found out!

Still think Rand is the best Republican out there

 

[jamo0001]

just watched the debate. i really hope the Cruz daughters went to bed early because watching your father get sodomized on national television by two senators and a fat man has to be quite distressing

 

[JHB4UK]

Meanwhile they will keep making sure the Dem debates occur when no one is watching (Saturday and Sunday), even schedule them during NFL playoffs so you can't see what a joke they are. They will get a pass on that all while they stir the focus to mocking the GOP.

Actually that strategery to protect Hillary from looking bad in debates (well, she looks bad when given any extended time to talk or be viewed by potential voters) has come back to strongly bite them in the ass. They had to schedule that last second panic town hall debate or forum or whatever the hell it was earlier in the week to try and save Iowa for her, and are now trying to do another one just prior to New Hampshire next week.

And like the front runner he now is, Bernie should avoid taking the bait and not punch down to the one chasing him from behind

 

[wkycatfan]

I thought Rubio, Christie, and Paul seem the most 'real'. Don't like Trump at all. Cruz is too grandiose for me.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Actually that strategery to protect Hillary from looking bad in debates (well, she looks bad when given any extended time to talk or be viewed by potential voters) has come back to strongly bite them in the ass. They had to schedule that last second panic town hall debate or forum or whatever the hell it was earlier in the week to try and save Iowa for her, and are now trying to do another one just prior to New Hampshire next week.

And like the front runner he now is, Bernie should avoid taking the bait and not punch down to the one chasing him from behind

Good call. Although you wouldnt know it based on the MSM, its not at all uncommon for frontrunners to not participate in some debates. Why should they? They have little to gain, and much to lose. Bernie should employ this same strategy. Probably in Iowa and definitely in New Hampshire. Hes clearly the surging candidate.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

1. Surprised you all haven't come to some consensus on abortion.

Itll never happen. Like I explained earlier, its the penultimate issue that illustrates how generally conservatives and liberals have totally different mindsets.

2. Watching this debate, FoxNews - friend of the right - is killing these guys. Video clip after clip showing contradictory or inconsistent statements. The most devastating kind of evidence. The very kind of thing that ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/MSNBC would never do to a Democrat. A little amazing.

I honestly dont know why the GOP agreed to have another debate on their network. Megyn Kelly made a clear power play the first time around. It was clear she was intent on being the star of the debate then, at the cost of the candidates.

3. The more I see of Cruz and Trump, the more I'm convinced that if either is the nominee, not only will Republicans lose the White House but will also lose several other races it would otherwise win.

I think youre definitely right about Cruz, and probably right about Trump.

 

[warrior-cat]

according to many scientist and atheist, life started from the primordial ooze. LIFE.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

according to many scientist and atheist, life started from the primordial ooze. LIFE.

According to Christian's the first woman was created from a man's rib. The entire universe in was created in 6 days. On day two and day three God creates the oceans, continents and plants. On day 4 he creates the sun, you know, the source of photosynthesis. Makes sense.

 

[Mashburned]

People don't take Greek mythology literally, but they take the bible literally. Why? To me, they're pretty much the same. Stories with lessons. Imaginations are dying fast. It's sad.

 

[JHB4UK]

How long did a day last, when the universe was first created? If you are going to fact-check the bible, then use facts.

kind of hard to say it was 24 hours when there wasnt any sun for any earth to rotate around! or any earth for that matter....

 

[Mojocat]

I thought Rubio looked off last night, possibly his worst performance (they all run together, can't say with certainty). Then I see that 23 of 27 of Frank Luntz robots say he won the debate. So who knows.