POLITICAL THREAD

[sambowieshin]

This post is a perfect example of how far left things have shifted, and how far left these “moderates” are.

Trump was pretty much a pro business moderate until Covid when he took a hard left turn.

It’s almost like the DNC replaced the employee running sambowieshin’s account and he’s completely unaware of all the lunacy that’s been posted over the years by the account.

Pretending January 6 is what sent the TDS over the edge lol.

No doubt I wasn't a fan of his Un Presidential behavior prior to Jan 6th. But as bad as Biden is I would have considered voting for Trump now if not for Jan 6th. That inaction and non response disqualified him from ever holding the office again in my opinion.
As the Chief Executive....his job is to carry out the laws of the land.....not trash them.
He chose personal political grievance over the Constitution that day as well as asking Pence to disregard the Constitution on a procedural process this country has carried off without a hitch for our entire history.
Those actions/inactions go way beyond traditional policy disputes like the border...(which Biden is too dense to see is an issue he could seize on in a heart beat even though I would prefer a law over EOs)

 

[WTF Cat]

Certainly true in the last 2 elections...

 

[Dionysus444]

I'd like to see a list of those fake electors, because I have a bone to pick with them. Can you email me the list? TIA.

Full list of Trump fake electors in each state and the charges against them

Michigan has become the first state to charge GOP figures with an alleged plot to install fake election officials to wrongly declare Trump had won in 2020.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Bill Cosby]

No doubt I wasn't a fan of his Un Presidential behavior prior to Jan 6th. But as bad as Biden is I would have considered voting for Trump now if not for Jan 6th. That inaction and non response disqualified him from ever holding the office again in my opinion.
As the Chief Executive....his job is to carry out the laws of the land.....not trash them.
He chose personal political grievance over the Constitution that day as well as asking Pence to disregard the Constitution on a procedural process this country has carried off without a hitch for our entire history.
Those actions/inactions go way beyond traditional policy disputes like the border...(which Biden is too dense to see is an issue he could seize on in a heart beat even though I would prefer a law over EOs)

This is really odd. This same account, for weeks, was blaming republicans and Trump for the border, saying Biden didn’t have authority to act.

Now its acknowledging Biden is to blame.

It’s very strange. He sounds semi reasonable today (though still suffering from severe TDS), but everything he’s saying contradicts years of posting history.

 

[HymanKaplan]

What's "fake" about them? Other than forging documents? LOL

 

[Dionysus444]

SO typical of Karl. He doesn't answer a question. Instead he comes back deflections and personal putdowns.

Only because YOUR side would never agree to making them permanent. Same thing with Reagan and Bush. For a history guy, you don't know any.

Oh, and BTW ... communism, and communist leaders kill their citizens EVERY time it is tried. Now you know ...

Uhh what? He could've just not put in a time limit when they passed it, same as with the corporate rate. They passed it when controlling all three branches, Dems weren't involved at all. They voted against it.

 

[Dionysus444]

What's "fake" about them? Other than forging documents? LOL

They don't meet the Safe Harbor standard laid out in the Electoral Count Act to prevent exactly this type of coup attempt after it was done by the South in 1876. There are all sorts of rules, like being approved by the Governor of that state, governing electors. What you mean "other than forging documents?" All electors are are holders of official documents.

 

[sambowieshin]

This is really odd. This same account, for weeks, was blaming republicans and Trump for the border, saying Biden didn’t have authority to act.

Now its acknowledging Biden is to blame.

It’s very strange. He sounds semi reasonable today (though still suffering from severe TDS), but everything he’s saying contradicts years of posting history.

I never said Biden can't act on anything....I said that the biggest issue is that the vast majority of these immigrants are coming to the border and claiming asylum. That is a law Biden can't change except via Congress with a law. An EO can't change laws on the books.
He could issue an EO about remaining in Mexico or various other border related restrictions.
But the number one issue is ASYLUM LAW.
Even with all of Trump's EO's the reason he needed to put kids in cages is because the immigrants were still ignoring remain in Mexico, showing up at the border and claiming ASYLUM.
That is the issue that can't be solved with an EO. If Biden did attempt that...it would be overturned in the courts quickly until the law is rewritten.
The border law the Pubs shot down attempted to do just that.

Senate border bill would upend US asylum with emergency limits and fast-track reviews

A sweeping Senate bill on border security would bring dramatic changes to places like Jacumba Hot Springs, where hundreds of migrants wiggle through a border wall with Mexico every day in boulder-strewn mountains near San Diego to surrender to border agents and seek asylum.

apnews.com

 

[Dionysus444]

I agree with you. I just don’t see how Trump was ever the worse of the two evils even from a liberals viewpoint. The racist old rich warmongering white man who according to Dems is to blame for all our issues is exactly who they put in charge. And if he can’t go, by all accounts Dems had another privileged rich racist white man on deck to take his place.

But if Dems are only voting on identity, what is Trump? A nonbinary working class person of color? You forget about the whole only-two-options thing.

 

[SDC888]

What's "fake" about them? Other than forging documents? LOL

Absolutely nothing "fake" about alternate electors; that's just a stupid media spin, narrative to exploit naivete of the low-information left.

THe process of contesting the election was never even allowed to get started by Ted Cruz et al because of the so-called "insurrection" prevented it... interesting. 🤔

 

[Dionysus444]

Sam, I get your point. However, what concerns me I how fast our prices are increasing.

And there's no need to whine about socialism/communism, as this inflation is happening right now under capitalism. It's capitalism, not socialism.

 

[HymanKaplan]

I dig it. I was just making a joke.

Trump, by comparison, was the most honest elected official in DC. By a mile.

 

[HymanKaplan]

And there's no need to whine about socialism/communism, as this inflation is happening right now under capitalism. It's capitalism, not socialism.

False. This is "capitalism" fettered by a bloated, interfering, monstrosity known as the Federal government. And the Democrat party has evolved into the absolute tip of the spear, with respect to protecting the elites in this country.

 

[sambowieshin]

False. This is "capitalism" fettered by a bloated, interfering, monstrosity known as the Federal government. And the Democrat party has evolved into the absolute tip of the spear, with respect to protecting the elites in this country.

The primary focus of this fettered government.....If you haven't noticed....is keeping money in the hands of the already uber wealthy.
The spear used to protect the wealthy elites has two handles. One is labeled "Democrat" and the other "Republican".
The big scam is being able to convince half the population that the spear only has one handle.

 

[Dionysus444]

No doubt I wasn't a fan of his Un Presidential behavior prior to Jan 6th. But as bad as Biden is I would have considered voting for Trump now if not for Jan 6th. That inaction and non response disqualified him from ever holding the office again in my opinion.
As the Chief Executive....his job is to carry out the laws of the land.....not trash them.
He chose personal political grievance over the Constitution that day as well as asking Pence to disregard the Constitution on a procedural process this country has carried off without a hitch for our entire history.
Those actions/inactions go way beyond traditional policy disputes like the border...(which Biden is too dense to see is an issue he could seize on in a heart beat even though I would prefer a law over EOs)

If not for Jan 6th(which is obviously shorthand for Trump's plot, I don't care much at all about the actual riot that day, other than as a function of that plot) even someone as far left as myself would consider voting for Trump. The youth aren't behind Biden for real reasons. The more radical even feel Trump's coup attempt was based and support fascist revolution. But as a history nerd it's just a bridge too far for me. Our country was founded on antimonarchy, antinobility ideals. I am not willing to betray them for a reality TV billionaire. Power to the people.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Nobody want's a third party more than the Clown. I promise you that.

 

[Bill Cosby]

If you think January 6 was a Trump directed coup attempt, you are flat out retarded.

 

[Bill Cosby]

We still don’t know if there were more federal agents or trump supporters present at the Capitol on January 6.

 

[Dionysus444]

Absolutely nothing "fake" about alternate electors; that's just a stupid media spin, narrative to exploit naivete of the low-information left.

THe process of contesting the election was never even allowed to get started by Ted Cruz et al because of the so-called "insurrection" prevented it... interesting. 🤔

They were created outside the Safe Harbor process, explicitly to compete with the real, sanctioned electors. They are absolutely fake, there is nothing 'real' or legitimate about them at all, in any way.

The formal process for contesting has nothing to do with organizing fake electors. That process is outlined in the Constitution, which is not the case for fake electors. And that formal process still went on, some congresspeople still objected, even after the riot.

 

[Dionysus444]

If you think January 6 was a Trump directed coup attempt, you are flat out retarded.

Funny, if you don't you pretty obviously fit the bill.

 

[sambowieshin]

If not for Jan 6th(which is obviously shorthand for Trump's plot, I don't care much at all about the actual riot that day, other than as a function of that plot) even someone as far left as myself would consider voting for Trump. The youth aren't behind Biden for real reasons. The more radical even feel Trump's coup attempt was based and support fascist revolution. But as a history nerd it's just a bridge too far for me. Our country was founded on antimonarchy, antinobility ideals. I am not willing to betray them for a reality TV billionaire. Power to the people.

His overt manipulation of the masses is also a deal breaker for me. Constantly playing to the lowest common denominator and exploiting base human fears of anyone that is different from traditional white, Christian conservative America.
Nothing wrong with being a white, Christian conservative American until you start thinking you have the God given right to create laws to impose your beliefs on others....like current abortion/trans laws in Ky.
Dems also don't have the right to impose their trans athlete beliefs down the throats of conservatives. You wanna be trans....go for it....but hormones don't turn a 6'5 swimmer into a 5'6 swimmer.

If everyone would live by the motto...."Your rights end, where mine begin".....this country would be much better off.

Trump just plays the victim card and has half the country believing they are victims just like him.

Same goes for Dems and their stupid reparations crap. My tax dollars shouldn't go to someone I never aggrieved.

Both sides play stupid games and give us stupid prizes. Just feel like the Pubs have jumped the shark more than Dems during the Trump years.

 

[Dionysus444]

Nobody want's a third party more than the Clown. I promise you that.

You've expressed similar sentiment in previous conversations. A centrist party. So if multiple parties were to come to pass in America what do you think that would look like? Which factions would align along which issues to form what governing coalitions of what swathes of people? You think there are more moderates out there who would align on more issues with enough energy to shout down both the right and left?

 

[vhcat70]

Insanity. A MASS deportation is the only way, yet we’ve let millions enter the country that will breed this same mindset like weeds. Too many fires now to put out. America is changed forever. SICK.

View embedded media

So there's one sane person in CA.

 

[vhcat70]

Laughable!

View embedded media

You talking Trump for agreeing to it?

 

[vhcat70]

I think Vivek could very well be who Trump is positioning to be the VP candidate.

He needs to pick someone that's not his echo. Vivek/JD don't add different voters.

 

[SDC888]

They were created outside the Safe Harbor process, explicitly to compete with the real, sanctioned electors. They are absolutely fake, there is nothing 'real' or legitimate about them at all, in any way.

The formal process for contesting has nothing to do with organizing fake electors. That process is outlined in the Constitution, which is not the case for fake electors. And that formal process still went on, some congresspeople still objected, even after the riot.

That's not true, just narrative. They were not there to ""compete."

Cruz et al wanted to have a ten day senate investigation, after which the "fake" electors would've been certified by the states, provided there was justification. That process was prevented from ever even being considered.

"Your" coup attempt is a media spun lie which you are happy to regurgitate and promulgate. Nothing more.

 

[vhcat70]

If a left leaning media company or personality hosts the event Republicans complain. If a right leaning media company or personality hosts the event Democrats complain. At this point all politics is a shit show at best and Americans deserve better than that from both bloody government no matter who is in control.

So just how do we get better?

 

[BlueRunner11]

But if Dems are only voting on identity, what is Trump? A nonbinary working class person of color? You forget about the whole only-two-options thing.

Well he was at least a non establishment rich white man who historically was culturally “popular” among most Americans regardless of race, age, economic status until he ran as a R then the same groups that praised him in rap songs were now told and sold on that he was an oppressive racist.

On the other hand, Biden who had a strong history of being a racist, locking black folk up for drugs, etc and then told black people to their face if they don’t vote for him then they’re not black, carried the black vote by what? 90 percent?

Biden and Hillary had years of records of being on the wrong side of things. Seems to me, everyone would’ve been on board with giving an outsider a fair shot and navigating the bs. I get the limited choice we have, but never saw Biden as the lesser of the two evils unless you blindly just submitted to what the party told you to think.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Who're the communists again?

Time to troll Dion again. I've given everybody a break from spam.

 

[vhcat70]

Dion, on the other hand, is clearly a sociopath. LOL

NIghtwish is a GYERO wannabe

vhcat is torn. He's a liberal, but he's conflicted. He hasn't come to terms with it yet. He's the confused teenager, sitting in his room, listening to The Smiths...

Tell me which Dim I've voted for in the last 40 years. Any choice you make is a lie. Ken Lucas for Congress was the last one.

MAGA thinks anyone not with them is a lib. LOL. Narrowminded group to the extreme.

 

[BlueRunner11]

He needs to pick someone that's not his echo. Vivek/JD don't add different voters.

Another Pence clone doesn’t work either. A VP who does the Dems bidding would be Trump just asking to be JFKd.

I know you favor that, but they have their own party and candidates.

 

[SDC888]

You reject electors then replace them with state sanctioned alternate electors if warranted, don't if not; that's the process.

It's not complicated: the media is just dishonest and easily exploits your gullibility with lies of a "coup" and "insurrection," your paranoid TDS hysteria. It would be laughable if not so pathetic and dangerous to mislead so many.

The group called for an Electoral Commission similar to one created in 1877 to resolve the dispute concerning the presidential election the year before. That was comprised of five House members, five senators, and five Supreme Court justices.

"Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states. Once completed, individual states would evaluate the Commission's findings and could convene a special legislative session to certify a change in their vote, if needed," the statement said.

While the senators said that they planned to vote to reject voters from disputed states on Wednesday, they did not appear to specify which states they would reject. "We intend to vote on January 6 to reject the electors from disputed states as not 'regularly given' and 'lawfully certified' (the statutory requisite), unless and until that 10-day audit is completed," the statement said.

Group of GOP Senators to Object Election Certification Unless There's Audit

"Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states," said the group in a statement.

www.newsweek.com

 

[vhcat70]

Trump was pretty much a pro business moderate until Covid when he took a hard left turn.

So you believe Trump was a moderate until he took a left turn.

Yet someone who isn't part of his supporters, meaning left of moderate based on your words, makes that someone a lib. Perfect example of how F-ed Up they are on left-right.

 

[vhcat70]

Another Pence clone doesn’t work either. A VP who does the Dems bidding would be Trump just asking to be JFKd.

I know you favor that, but they have their own party and candidates.

There are choices not named Pence or those two. Youngkin/Abbott/Burgum, even Haley.

You really don't know d!ch sh!t about my political choices.

 

[Dionysus444]

His overt manipulation of the masses is also a deal breaker for me. Constantly playing to the lowest common denominator and exploiting base human fears of anyone that is different from traditional white, Christian conservative America.
Nothing wrong with being a white, Christian conservative American until you start thinking you have the God given right to create laws to impose your beliefs on others....like current abortion/trans laws in Ky.
Dems also don't have the right to impose their trans athlete beliefs down the throats of conservatives. You wanna be trans....go for it....but hormones don't turn a 6'5 swimmer into a 5'6 swimmer.

If everyone would live by the motto...."Your rights end, where mine begin".....this country would be much better off.

Trump just plays the victim card and has half the country believing they are victims just like him.

Same goes for Dems and their stupid reparations crap. My tax dollars shouldn't go to someone I never aggrieved.

Both sides play stupid games and give us stupid prizes. Just feel like the Pubs have jumped the shark more than Dems during the Trump years.

They were an overwhelming majority that sees itself shrinking every day and that's scary. So they lash out, and Trump is the avatar of that angst. That's the only reason Trump lost in 2020, he's a bully and most Americans don't like bullies, regardless of their political beliefs.

Now on your list of issues obviously we disagree on basically every one. I assume that's why you listed them, as points of intraparty contention, no point in listing things we agree on:

Trans sports: Women's sports only exist because of Title IX, which is a civil rights law. It is a historical accident. Title IX just added education to the areas where it is illegal to discriminate. And because our minor league sports are tied up in universities due to a historical quirk, you had to then legally offer the same to women. But they did so as a messed-up product of their time in a separate-but-supposedly-equal BS way. They didn't want to let them compete so they segregated them. The only way to not discriminate, as the law mandates, is to let everyone compete and let the chips fall where they may. Isn't that the free market ideal both you and the conservatives here supposedly love?

Reparations: Reparations have nothing to do with who's aggrieved and who isn't. It's merely the investment into our society and economy we should have made over a century ago. The black community is primarily in the economic state it's in for two compounding reasons: freed slaves had no capital to participate in our capitalist society so they were forced to occupy the lowest rung of the economic ladder, and due to that status and racism were handed all tasks seen as undesirable by society. Reparations are an investment in those afforded the fewest economic opportunities to improve the productivity and quality of life for all our citizens, not some punishment or amends for slavery.

 

[Lost In FL]

Who're the communists again?

Whore? Youre!

 

[DrH. Lecter]

You notice how the ones for the people are temporary. The ones for the business community are permanent. I literally pointed that out to y'all at the time. The rich protect their own; they have class consciousness. No matter how much y'all fantasize about Trump being something different he is just the distilled essence of your yoke.

Ignorance is bliss. The reason that business laws and regs are longer term is because buisness must make decisions based on stability in the tax code. You cannot make a multi-million dollar investment decision based on a tax code that changes as often as you change your Antifa black mask.

You are a drain on society and produce nothing of value. If sometime in the future you have a stroke like Fetterman and your brain gets rewired then maybe you will see.

 

[Dionysus444]

That's not true, just narrative. They were not there to ""compete."

Cruz et al wanted to have a ten day senate investigation, after which the "fake" electors would've been certified by the states, provided there was justification. That process was prevented from ever even being considered.

"Your" coup attempt is a media spun lie which you are happy to regurgitate and promulgate. Nothing more.

Did Cruz organize the fake electors? No, John Eastman did at Trump's behest. And we have Eastman's memo's outlining exactly what they were for, not your personal speculation made up to do hand-waving.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

30 years? Criminals can try to kidnap kids in most liberal cities and not get a 1/4th of that.

 

[Lost In FL]

Uhh what? He could've just not put in a time limit when they passed it, same as with the corporate rate. They passed it when controlling all three branches, Dems weren't involved at all. They voted against it.

False. Still didnt answer the question. You dodged. As always.

I know your pea brain will never comprehend, and you are too dishonest to admit defeat, so i wont bother.