POLITICAL THREAD

[bigblueinsanity]

That's the wrong metric. There is no fool proof perfect solution to this problem, so holding that up as the benchmark will always result in any proposal missing the mark. Rather we have to focus on what will make a direct impact on reducing incidents like we saw yesterday in Virginia.

Last year there were 170,000 incidents of gun sales that were denied due to background checks that revealed the would-be purchaser was an x-felon, mentally ill, or had terrorist connections. I'm sure some of those 170,000 found a way to get a gun illegally - OR legally at a gun show but not all of them.

Your counter argument to my proposal makes some sense, but how about if we do this. If the licensing was done on a national level, a license could be revoked if the holder had a felony conviction or was determined mentally unstable. The license would be like a credit card with a magstrip or chip that can be swiped for instant approval - or called in (again like a credit card transaction).

The bottom line for me is that we can't just shrug our shoulders when there is another senseless killing and say "$hit happens don't mess with my 2nd amendment rights" That's a cop out. WE can protect gun owners rights and do a much better shop of filtering the access at the same time.

Theres no way id trust the government to monitor convictions or mental health records. Some incompetent government employee is the one who incorrectly entered the data which allowed the Charleston shooter to buy his gun. It would be ok in a perfect world, but not in a real one.

Lets look at the current laws and remember this is a constitutionally protected right. There isnt one shooting that wouldve been prevented. All, except the aforementioned Charleston shooter, had little/no criminal history and little/no history of mental illness.

I think one item that goes unmentioned, is the media unintentionally creates a worship subculture for this type of behavior. They shouldnt mention the shooters name, show their face, or share any of their social media psychobabble. If these people thought theyd be dying without everyone remembering their name; it would go a long way towards stopping these.

 

[qwesley]

Ol Vester got reprimanded for wearing Obama gear on election day

 

[Willy4UK]

Theres no way id trust the government to monitor convictions or mental health records

Ain't that the truth. The way the VA treats Veterans and their mental health, there is no way in Hell I'd want the U.S handling that.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Using your automobile example, I would support a law that required gun ownership licensing, as opposed to gun licensing and background checks. Just like with automobiles you go to a local government facility once, and demonstrate your knowledge of gun safety, that you are not a felon, or a terrorist, and not a mental case, then they issue you a license. Once you have your license you can buy all the guns you want without going through a background check each time, just like when you get a drivers license you can drive any car you want.

This is a great idea!!!

Let's have free speech licenses too. Then, hopefully when Defense's kids wise up and take his car they also stop him from embarrassing himself all day on the internet.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Lol wth

What do you think rural areas are like? You got a concrete jungle, they got a jungle. Different means to the same shit. Open your brain. Expand your shit.

I grew up in the middle of south east ky. 28 years. Where I live now is the complete opposite. Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing is similar. Expand your mind pal.

 

[Mashburned]

I grew up in the middle of south east ky. 28 years. Where I live now is the complete opposite. Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing is similar. Expand your mind pal.

You probably feel the same way about animals.

Ain't nothing as complicated as it seems. We all are a part of nature. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[KingOfBBN]

The illegal that was deported seven times that killed the woman in San Francisco, used a federal agent's gun that he never reported stolen.

Why would anyone have faith in our government system or workers?

 

[KingOfBBN]

I just enjoy Deefense claiming to be a moderate Democrat yet aligns himself in agreement with every far left talking point.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

You probably feel the same way about animals.

Ain't nothing as complicated as it seems. We all are a part of nature. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

All I know is how I perceive reality and the world around me. For me it's different. For me it is better. It's what I was looking for my whole life. Place that in your hamper and wash it.

 

[Deeeefense]

Sorry people but I can't buy the argument "let's not do anything (to prevent rampant gun violence) becasue government is too incompetent". Yea with a database of 330,000,000 people I'm sure there will be some errors but even the government will do a lot more right than they do wrong. Actually certain agencies do an incredible job in some areas. Specifically the intelligence agencies have had a phenomenal record of thwarting terrorists plots since 911. There are literally 1000s that you never read about that they have prevented.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Sorry people but I can't buy the argument "let's not do anything (to prevent rampant gun violence) becasue government is too incompetent". Yea with a database of 330,000,000 people I'm sure there will be some errors but even the government will do a lot more right than they do wrong. Actually certain agencies do an incredible job in some areas. Specifically the intelligence agencies have had a phenomenal record of thwarting terrorists plots since 911. There are literally 1000s that you never read about that they have prevented.

Except you're under the impression that this government gives two shits about the people when they don't. They have their own interest and it involves themselves and their masters. By no means, should we give the government more power or control.

 

[P19978]

Got this from another website; not sure of the original source.

It will be interesting to see the spin...

Restrictive gun laws don't reduce gun violence... please see the above chart.

 

[Willy4UK]

All I know is how I perceive reality and the world around me. For me it's different. For me it is better. It's what I was looking for my whole life. Place that in your hamper and wash it.

I totally respect that man. I had the same mentality coming from a small city in KY too.

Perception of reality can also lead to cognitive dissonance. Just trying to keep you grounded man. It keeps us humble.

 

[KopiKat]

Sorry people but I can't buy the argument "let's not do anything (to prevent rampant gun violence) becasue government is too incompetent". Yea with a database of 330,000,000 people I'm sure there will be some errors but even the government will do a lot more right than they do wrong. Actually certain agencies do an incredible job in some areas. Specifically the intelligence agencies have had a phenomenal record of thwarting terrorists plots since 911. There are literally 1000s that you never read about that they have prevented.

the fact that law abiding citizens are in possession of arms to defend themselves has also prevented literally 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of crimes against those citizens, and you never read anything about that either. Think about that. A phenomenal record, indeed.

 

[qwesley]

Has anyone seen a gun law suggestion today would have prevented the shooting? Just checking.

 

[Willy4UK]

Has anyone seen a gun law suggestion today would have prevented the shooting? Just checking.

No. The laws are fine. No more gun laws. However, I do think certain mental health DXs should cause disqualification for gun ownership. You got Major Depression, PTSD, Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar etc.. You're out until your dr or therapist discharges after successful treatment, then you can obtain a gun license. Only problem is HIPAA. But it at least gets the attention on mental illness, rather than guns.

Plus I'll be a clinical therapist and that will increase patients and that means more money for me. More money means more favors around town. May make even more money, then I make some friends in Gov't. Throw a few more dollars. Next thing you know I am Czar of the Federal Mental Health Institution appointed by the President himself and will start taking lobby dollars so I can buy that country in South America.

 

[Deeeefense]

Except you're under the impression that this government gives two shits about the people when they don't. They have their own interest and it involves themselves and their masters. By no means, should we give the government more power or control.

Government IS the people. They are not an evil entity, they are us. Without government, a constitution, a body of law, courts, judges and law enforcement we are nothing more than Somalia on steroids.

 

[Deeeefense]

Restrictive gun laws don't reduce gun violence... please see the above chart.

You didn't answer my question - what is the definition of "rampage shootings" as used in this chart? I can tell you right off there are a hell of a lot more than 227 violent shooting in the US each year - hell we hit that number every week by Thursday. My hunch is this is a chart made with a trick on words to manufacture a false perception.

 

[Deeeefense]

the fact that law abiding citizens are in possession of arms to defend themselves has also prevented literally 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of crimes against those citizens, and you never read anything about that either. Think about that. A phenomenal record, indeed.

That's an interesting point and probably true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

[KopiKat]

Plus I'll be a clinical therapist and that will increase patients and that means more money for me. More money means more favors around town. May make even more money, then I make some friends in Gov't. Throw a few more dollars. Next thing you know I am Czar of the Federal Mental Health Institution appointed by the President himself and will start taking lobby dollars so I can buy that country in South America.

5 stars. no shit. just rockin'. Suriname?

 

[Willy4UK]

5 stars. no shit. just rockin'. Suriname?

We all have dreams.

 

[KopiKat]

That's an interesting point and probably true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

I know. Fighting a serious cold. Doubled on daytime over-the-counter sinus meds this afternoon plus a half lortab left over from my February hip replacement. sucking ricolas like a medieval swill. Please continue your discussion.

 

[KopiKat]

We all have dreams.

You shot up my chart with that one.

 

[warrior-cat]

Sorry people but I can't buy the argument "let's not do anything (to prevent rampant gun violence) becasue government is too incompetent". Yea with a database of 330,000,000 people I'm sure there will be some errors but even the government will do a lot more right than they do wrong. Actually certain agencies do an incredible job in some areas. Specifically the intelligence agencies have had a phenomenal record of thwarting terrorists plots since 911. There are literally 1000s that you never read about that they have prevented.

Gun deaths are down over 45% since 1993 and gun ownership is up a lot since then. So, what we are doing is actually working. These knee jerk reactions are basically used to try and take our guns away. Also Deee, on a side note, nearly 200 retired generals and admirals sent a letter to congress warning about the bad deal made with Iran so, that trumps all of the others who were in support of the deal

 

[warrior-cat]

Except you're under the impression that this government gives two shits about the people when they don't. They have their own interest and it involves themselves and their masters. By no means, should we give the government more power or control.

Obama like Deee have only about half the nations interest at heart, the ones who agree with them. The rest of the nation be damned. That has been the attitude from day one. We won the election so deal with it. Basically saying that they were going to do whatever they wanted regardless of what have the nation thought. Controlling all 3 branches they were arrogant and uncaring.

 

[Deeeefense]

Gun deaths are down over 45% since 1993 and gun ownership is up a lot since then. So, what we are doing is actually working. These knee jerk reactions are basically used to try and take our guns away. Also Deee, on a side note, nearly 200 retired generals and admirals sent a letter to congress warning about the bad deal made with Iran so, that trumps all of the others who were in support of the deal

NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE YOUR GUN AWAY
NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE YOUR GUN AWAY
NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE YOUR GUN AWAY

and yes I read JHB's post and it was a meaningful contribution to the discussion but I still strongly disagree.

 

[qwesley]

No. The laws are fine. No more gun laws. However, I do think certain mental health DXs should cause disqualification for gun ownership. You got Major Depression, PTSD, Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar etc.. You're out until your dr or therapist discharges after successful treatment, then you can obtain a gun license. Only problem is HIPAA. But it at least gets the attention on mental illness, rather than guns.

Plus I'll be a clinical therapist and that will increase patients and that means more money for me. More money means more favors around town. May make even more money, then I make some friends in Gov't. Throw a few more dollars. Next thing you know I am Czar of the Federal Mental Health Institution appointed by the President himself and will start taking lobby dollars so I can buy that country in South America.

I will back any bill that helps your credit score.

 

[jamo0001]

We're having trouble getting states to require vision testing for seniors who attempt to renew driver's licenses. Absolutely zero chance mental health providers will have the power to disqualify psychopaths from purchasing guns legally.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Willy, you are going to be a clinical therapist? I always thought it was "you were getting therapy at the clinical level"......my bad, imo.

 

[krazykats]

Actually Deeefense yes YOUR current govt would love to take the guns away! They just can't so they hope to begin steps to make it harder to get them first.

I'm on the fence about guns, I love them but have seen some stupid shit cause normal people to become something they aren't and the guns got the bad rap.

It's the biggest catch 22 because on one hand some idiot does something idiotic causing a natural point the finger reaction. But the flip side is I want to be able to protect myself from said idiot.

We have come along way though. If I went to a gun store right now and bought 3 ARs 2AKs and some handguns I guarantee someone would investigate it as they should.

I moved all my guns out of the house once I had kids because I could t live with myself if for some reason something happened. It wasn't easy and I have 2nd guessed myself multiple times but so far ADT has been fine.

 

[Willy4UK]

I will back any bill that helps your credit score.

Yeah, that ain't happening. I can't qualify for free parking.

Rex- ha ha ha. You know the deal. Can't be one unless you're nuts yourself.

 

[Willy4UK]

Jamo- no one cares about old people. It's a shame. America loves to show their attention to the priveleged white kid who shoots up public places. That's one reason why I think serious focus could shift to bring mental illness to the table. It's the white elephant that no one wants to talk about.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Hmmm

Seems as if he has a really small circle of friends.

 

[From-the-stands]

I moved all my guns out of the house once I had kids because I could t live with myself if for some reason something happened. It wasn't easy and I have 2nd guessed myself multiple times but so far ADT has been fine.

That's a smart move. The chance of someone using your guns to kill a family member or a guest in your house, or using it to commit suicide, or accidentally using it to shoot a family member or guest in your house is way more likely than it being used to kill an intruder. The NRA would certainly dispute this, but the average family is safer without a gun in their home.

 

[warrior-cat]

That's a smart move. The chance of someone using your guns to kill a family member or a guest in your house, or using it to commit suicide, or accidentally using it to shoot a family member or guest in your house is way more likely than it being used to kill an intruder. The NRA would certainly dispute this, but the average family is safer without a gun in their home.

Your opinion. It really depends on where you live, parental control and discipline in the home.

 

[warrior-cat]

NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE YOUR GUN AWAY
NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE YOUR GUN AWAY
NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE YOUR GUN AWAY

and yes I read JHB's post and it was a meaningful contribution to the discussion but I still strongly disagree.

Perhaps you should have posted NOBODY IS GOING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY and you would have been closer to the truth but not guaranteed. There are plenty of people who want to take our guns away and plan on trying one step at a time. In the past, I was against assault weapon (automatic) ownership for civilians but have since changed my mind. The government's increasing power grab and spying has gotten out of control and should be alarming to most. Unfortunately, many of the people who would like to have guns out of the hands of civilians are the rich and powerful in this nation and control much of the media using their influence. Which is why I like the fact that state militia's are growing. I agree with background checks and other areas (mental illness, PTSD, etc....) as areas that need to be tightened up when considering gun ownership. But, the case of PTSD is a tricky one. Considering just about anyone can have it these days (it is unreal how many are being diagnosed) you would have to have levels of the affliction and then decide where to draw the line.

 

[ukalumni00]

I have a 9MM, 12 and 22 gauge in the house and have not fired any of them in years. I am not an avid gun person who goes to the range, cleans them all the time, etc. (although these guns need to be cleaned). Point being if someone breaks in I have no issues using them, but other than that they have no use in my home. However, I feel safer knowing I can defend my family if need be, but by no means do I need to have a stockpile of ammo, guns, etc. like my neighbor who thinks there is going to be another Civl War anyday now and he needs all the protection possible.

 

[TheDonJiggy]

An interesting read that provides some legal experts' interpretations of the Clinton email situation.

DISCLAIMER: This IS an opinion piece, so you'll have to sift through the editorialization a bit.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I don't need all the guns I have. Which is one. I don't need a hundred guns.

I don't need to say everything I say. I don't need to refuse to testify against myself if I'm accused of a crime. I don't need to be secure in all my person and papers.

But you know what?

IT'S NOT ABOUT NEED

I have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to all those things. So take your big government overreach and "they don't want to take your guns" and "you don't need all those guns", turn it sideways, and stick it straight up your candy ass.

I don't care about Norway. I don't care about France. I don't care about any other country. The Constitution of the United States of America protects certain rights of United States citizens from United States government overreach.

Once the US stops droning US citizens off the earth without trials and running sweeping domestic surveillance programs, maybe we can talk about how the US federal government really doesn't want to completely eliminate the second amendment.

 

[qwesley]

An interesting read that provides some legal experts' interpretations of the Clinton email situation.

DISCLAIMER: This IS an opinion piece, so you'll have to sift through the editorialization a bit.

This thread only addresses the validity of GOP candidates, thanks though.