POLITICAL THREAD

[fuzz77]

It is the case, at least to some degree. And my response is a big "so what?". I'm glad the FBI is able to pour over the phone records of the the Boston bombers and the Chattanooga shooter to see who else might be a danger. This is an important part of our system of defense. If you think they really care about your personal life then you really might be donning the tin foil hat.

The problem is once they have the information they can use it in whatever manner deemed "prudent". The American Revolution would have most certainly been squashed had the Brits had the ability to do what the NSA and FBI are doing today. Anyone's actual probability of being killed by terrorist is lottery-esque. I am happy to take my chances.

Today it's terrorist, tomorrow it's people who are political enemies. What could Joe McCarthy have done with this kind of information?

I fear a government with the power to spy on my every written and spoken word 1000x more than I fear any terrorist. As they say, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Having free access to all of this information is absolute power.
We have constitutional provisions to conduct wiretaps and surveillance...it's called a warrant.

I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could call themselves a "conservative" and support the Patriot Act or any of its offspring. That is truly a liberal, very liberal interpretation of the Constitution.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Today it's terrorist, tomorrow it's people who are political enemies. What could Joe McCarthy have done with this kind of information?

Its already being used against political enemies. Thats not even conjecture. Its fact.

The collection of all the data/spying is bad enough. But its whats being done with it AFTER which is even more troublesome. Not only is it used for an unnecessary circumvention of the 4th amendment. The agencies collecting the information are so incompetent, they couldnt even stop a domestic terrorist attack by two people on their watch list.

Just think about what the NSA was doing when Snowden left and blew the whistle. That was years ago. You think theyve backed off? Doubtful. Its almost certainly been increased exponentially.

 

[Big_Blue79]

I could see Kasich (governor qualifies as a plus in my book) and Rubio, but I don't get the Ben Carson love. Don't know much about Fiorina; I'll brush up once she seems like she has a chance.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Today it's terrorist, tomorrow it's people who are political enemies. What could Joe McCarthy have done with this kind of information?

Just look at what Hoover did to his political enemies, including MLK (fyi that Drunk History episode was amazing). Or the police of a number of cities in the 1960s/1970s - there were a number of cases where courts had to impose consent decrees on cities and their use of intelligence due to illegal spying on primarily leftist movements (NYC, Chicago, Seattle, and some more I can't remember off the top of my head). No need to imagine.

 

[cat_chaser]

Carson's backstory of where he came from to where he is should be enough to earn him the respect to take seriously. At least it should be enough to make one take a closer look at.

He isn't a DC insider.

He is a brilliant man with strong convictions.

He has actually contributed more to society (in a liberal sense - as in using his skills to help his fellow man/woman) than any of the other candidates have, and most likely more than any other current politician.

He isn't a polished, professional politician and is lacking in experience..... Especially on foreign policy.

I guess he could go overseas, give a speech about lowering the sea levels, and talk about how everyone will love us once he is elected......and be just as qualified as Obama was on foreign policy when he took office.

I say Rubio and kasich are 1 and 1a for me. With Walker and Carson two people I would like to hear more from.

 

[jamo0001]

I guess he could go overseas, give a speech about lowering the sea levels, and talk about how everyone will love us once he is elected......and be just as qualified as Obama was on foreign policy when he took office.

Obama sat on both the Foreign Relations and the Homeland Security committees, chairing the subcommittee on European Affairs. He was no means qualified, but comparing him to Carson is absurd.

But yes, go ahead and vote for the guy whose knowledge base has exactly zero applicability to the job of President.

 

[From-the-stands]

The problem is once they have the information they can use it in whatever manner deemed "prudent". The American Revolution would have most certainly been squashed had the Brits had the ability to do what the NSA and FBI are doing today. Anyone's actual probability of being killed by terrorist is lottery-esque. I am happy to take my chances.

But that's just it - We're the reigning power, just like the Brits were at the time. If there is a revolution coming, or some other kind of domestic attack that would harm the Union, I would want our government to know about it so that they could thwart it. We're not revolting anymore, we're defending our country - you do what you have to do to make it as safe as possible.

 

[Bill Derington]

FTS, When you swear into the military the oath you take is to protect the constitution, from both foreign and domestic threats. You don't swear to protect the Govt, the constitution is what is sacred and must be protected, because it's ideals are fragile. It's the foundation for what the nation is.

What you just described is everything the Constitution was created to protect against, An overreaching central govt.

 

[cat_chaser]

Did I say I was gonna ****ing vote for him?

My apologies if the thought of taking him seriously offended you. Your post is the reason why the cream of the crop don't even bother running.

Enjoy the shit sandwich you get.

 

[cawoodsct]

Cool your jets, guys

 

[warrior-cat]

Hey bub, you keep pointing out deeeee's hypocrisy and he will block you.

Of course he will, it is the typical liberal response to anything that goes against their socialistic agenda. Silence the opposition.

 

[warrior-cat]

Jesus. It's almost like they want to lose this thing.

I actually found this funny but true.

 

[KopiKat]

The world does have available historical and modern examples of where socialism has been taken to the extreme, and this thread now has an argument saying that because the current American examples are not yet part of an extreme (??) then any of the leading current American political advocates must not be socialist. Very interesting. That's sort of like saying a person who drinks every day of his life but is functional is his routine and is not yet part of the extreme, in the gutter, pass-out-drunk community, must not be an alcoholic.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Obama to indicate to me that he is not 100% socialist in his heart of hearts, and in no way shape or form will I allow anonymous words on an internet message board tell me he isn't.

So to combine this post with previous sentiment, persons who within their own sense of being who are inclined to acquiesce or at least fondle socialism's perceived coziness will be just like that alcoholic - capable of one primary thing more than any other: denial.

 

[warrior-cat]

Wtf are you even talking about? How many Senators has the TP been able to get to DC? Hell, even their high-water mark was only 60 congressmen.

There simply are not enough states and districts willing to support a TP platform. The numbers aren't there, nor are they even close to being there.

Agreed but, there are a lot of people who are tired of the same old crap from both sides. What we are seeing in the Trump wave is proof of that. That does not mean I want to see him win in fact, I don't think he would make a good president but, he is shaking the tree real hard right now and I like that. Perhaps it will wake up a true leader to see that Americans in general are tired.

 

[warrior-cat]

But that's just it - We're the reigning power, just like the Brits were at the time. If there is a revolution coming, or some other kind of domestic attack that would harm the Union, I would want our government to know about it so that they could thwart it. We're not revolting anymore, we're defending our country - you do what you have to do to make it as safe as possible.

This post is very scary folks. "We are the reigning power" Similar to "We won the election so deal with it". That basically says to me that our half is now in control and we will do what we want. Screw the rest of you.

 

[jamo0001]

Agreed but, there are a lot of people who are tired of the same old crap from both sides. What we are seeing in the Trump wave is proof of that. That does not mean I want to see him win in fact, I don't think he would make a good president but, he is shaking the tree real hard right now and I like that. Perhaps it will wake up a true leader to see that Americans in general are tired.

I just see a gigantic dogwhistle wearing a toupee, honestly.

Trump sees this as a win-win: Either he gets the nomination or his BFF gets to be First Fondler for the next four years. The fact that at least 20% (add in the Cruz votes once he's out of the race) of polled voters are willing to fall for it proves that he hasn't underestimated the general public.

Hell, he probably knew long ago that he could run this fraud campaign. The TV ratings for his garbage shows/pageants are proof of just how large the Least Common Denominator has become.

 

[From-the-stands]

FTS, When you swear into the military the oath you take is to protect the constitution, from both foreign and domestic threats. You don't swear to protect the Govt, the constitution is what is sacred and must be protected, because it's ideals are fragile. It's the foundation for what the nation is.

What you just described is everything the Constitution was created to protect against, An overreaching central govt.

And that military exists to serve us through a government that is, to quote Lincoln, a "government of the people, by the people, for the people". As do our intelligence agency's. I prefer that they be given all reasonable tools to fight our enemies - including communication monitoring.

 

[jamo0001]

first segment. Snowden hurt us. Badly.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

What are your feelings about the hatred those people feel about America and the hatred they have for our way of life and the determination to wipe out Israel...Energy independence for America would go a long way to stop some of this stuff, but I'm guessing that unless it is green energy wouldn't be in favor of that

What ISIS and others are doing is deplorable. But you think it's because we are some majestic place in the west? You think we've done nothing to attract this hatred and hostility? I think the last 30+ years of actual history says otherwise. Israel? Yeah they're practically saints as well. No one would ever have a reason to be angry with them. Occupation...pfff that's nothing be upset about. Paraphrasing Noam here. If you want to stop terrorism then stop participating in it. Pretty simple.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

But that's just it - We're the reigning power, just like the Brits were at the time. If there is a revolution coming, or some other kind of domestic attack that would harm the Union, I would want our government to know about it so that they could thwart it. We're not revolting anymore, we're defending our country - you do what you have to do to make it as safe as possible.

This country needs a revolution.

 

[sluggercatfan]

What ISIS and others are doing is deplorable. But you think it's because we are some majestic place in the west? You think we've done nothing to attract this hatred and hostility? I think the last 30+ years of actual history says otherwise. Israel? Yeah they're practically saints as well. No one would ever have a reason to be angry with them. Occupation...pfff that's nothing be upset about. Paraphrasing Noam here. If you want to stop terrorism then stop participating in it. Pretty simple.

WOW...Amazing. You are not going to like this , but they hate us by and large because we are a Christian nation and we support Israel. Period !!. Because of Obama they no longer fear us and know he will do nothing because he has empathy for them.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

WOW...Amazing. You are not going to like this , but they hate us by and large because we are a Christian nation and we support Israel. Period !!. Because of Obama they no longer fear us and know he will do nothing because he has empathy for them.

Ever heard of drone strikes?

 

[KopiKat]

I suspect that I sound incurably naive, wedded to lost hopes, like those Communists who peddle their newspapers on the fringes of various college towns. BHO - Dreams of My Father

To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists BHO - Dreams of My Father

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

What ISIS and others are doing is deplorable. But you think it's because we are some majestic place in the west? You think we've done nothing to attract this hatred and hostility? I think the last 30+ years of actual history says otherwise. Israel? Yeah they're practically saints as well. No one would ever have a reason to be angry with them. Occupation...pfff that's nothing be upset about. Paraphrasing Noam here. If you want to stop terrorism then stop participating in it. Pretty simple.

You see, there was this old guy named Abraham who had many sons...yada,yada,yada...they hate us infidels and always will no matter how many political handjobs we give them.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

View embedded media

first segment. Snowden hurt us. Badly.

1) Its hard to believe anyone would cite Maher as anything other than a joke

2) Snowden hurt us because now the terrorists communicate differently? Maybe. But now we KNOW the shocking level of intrusion of the NSA on private citizens. The latter is the much darker evil.

3) The monitoring didnt help with the attack in Benghazi. It didnt help with the boston marathon bombing. In fact, theres no proof it was doing anything productive other than spying on everyone, probably in an attempt to catch drug dealers and tax evaders; for the same purpose (to forfeit and collect cash).

Not only is the program shocking in its intrusion. Its also shocking in its ineptitude, which makes the prior even that more offensive.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

I loved trumps jab at megyn Kelly and his disdain for almost all women. I can't wait to see how fox handles more coverage from the donald since he isn't playing with their team. He is single handily bringing the gop down until he doesn't get the nod. to make it worse he will run as an independent and boom its 1992 all over again. Here's to you ross Perot

 

[jamo0001]

i wasn't citing Maher. i was citing the man who spent 30 years in counterterrorism in both Democratic and Republican administrations and received full clearance to participate in the investigation of the Snowden leak/effects.

And he explicitly answered (3). You can call him FOS if you wish, obviously, but that's your own prerogative.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Period !!.

For some reason that made me actually laugh out loud.

 

[drawing_dead]

Jamo, is your skirt showing?

Govt't/military tech is 20-30 years beyond our imagination. FACT.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

I loved trumps jab at megyn Kelly and his disdain for almost all women. I can't wait to see how fox handles more coverage from the donald since he isn't playing with their team. He is single handily bringing the gop down until he doesn't get the nod. to make it worse he will run as an independent and boom its 1992 all over again. Here's to you ross Perot

Except the Democrats arent in position to benefit from it like they were in 92. Fiorina runs as POTUS or VP and this race isnt even close.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

Let's be honest fiorina would be a good choice but I don't know if the gop is ready to give the nod to a candidate without a Y chromosome. Palin certainly didn't do them any favors. Trump will eventually flame out along the line. I can't stomach another bush in office.

 

[warrior-cat]

The Taliban, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam, ISIS, etc are all a result of previous and current administrations. We have been involved in the murder of millions of innocent lives either directly or indirectly going back as far as Eisenhower.

View embedded media

Wrong, period. These people have been fighting for thousands of years and now you want to blame America for their hatred of seemingly everything but themselves.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

The Donald is a jackass! His sour expressions and his rants against this and that will wear on people soon enough. He reminds me of that old dude that lived across the street from me growing up. The one that sat on his front porch and yelled at all the kids to stay off his lawn! He's that guy!

I predict that the GOP will settle on a ticket of Kasich/Rubio. They need both Ohio and Florida to win. Two big swing states that can win them the White House. That ticket is doable and can get the job done. Not sure if it WILL, but it CAN. It's their best hope, IMHO.

 

[warrior-cat]

I just see a gigantic dogwhistle wearing a toupee, honestly.

Trump sees this as a win-win: Either he gets the nomination or his BFF gets to be First Fondler for the next four years. The fact that at least 20% (add in the Cruz votes once he's out of the race) of polled voters are willing to fall for it proves that he hasn't underestimated the general public.

Hell, he probably knew long ago that he could run this fraud campaign. The TV ratings for his garbage shows/pageants are proof of just how large the Least Common Denominator has become.

That is more or less where I was going with my point. I seriously doubt and, would stake some money on it that he does not get the nomination. But, he will get more exposure and I am betting he is betting on that being a surge in his overall TV ratings later down the line. It all equals dollars for him. He is a shrewd businessman after all.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Wrong, period. These people have been fighting for thousands of years and now you want to blame America for their hatred of seemingly everything but themselves.

I'm not blaming us for their hatred. I'm blaming us and other industrialized countries for contributing significantly to their instability. We can and should admit that about ourselves. We have made a concerted effort to keep them unstable. It's an ugly truth.

 

[fuzz77]

And that military exists to serve us through a government that is, to quote Lincoln, a "government of the people, by the people, for the people". As do our intelligence agency's. I prefer that they be given all reasonable tools to fight our enemies - including communication monitoring.

Dude, Hitler came to power by democratic means. I don't foresee in the immediate future any need for a second American Revolution...but if at sometime in the future elected officials decide that they don't want to relinquish power or choose to abuse their power to the degree that has completely lost touch with the American people...we want that power to take action.
The opportunity for abuse and misuse of so much information is IMHO a far greater threat to the American people than what any terrorist or group of terrorist could ever hope to do. If history has taught us anything it has taught us that if the opportunity exists, someone will exercise that opportunity.
Of the people and by the people is a nice sound bite but many today would modify that to read...of the people with money, by the people with money, for the people with money.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

They havent been stable since the birth of Isaac.

 

[Deeeefense]

I loved trumps jab at megyn Kelly and his disdain for almost all women. I can't wait to see how fox handles more coverage from the donald since he isn't playing with their team. He is single handily bringing the gop down until he doesn't get the nod. to make it worse he will run as an independent and boom its 1992 all over again. Here's to you ross Perot

Roger Ailes capitulated yesterday, called Trump and told him "he would be treated fairly" On her show last night Megyn Kelly refused to retaliate against the insults Trump directed at her (was she so directed by her boss?)

Sounds like Trump now owns Fox News too.

 

[From-the-stands]

Dude, Hitler came to power by democratic means. I don't foresee in the immediate future any need for a second American Revolution...but if at sometime in the future elected officials decide that they don't want to relinquish power or choose to abuse their power to the degree that has completely lost touch with the American people...we want that power to take action.
The opportunity for abuse and misuse of so much information is IMHO a far greater threat to the American people than what any terrorist or group of terrorist could ever hope to do. If history has taught us anything it has taught us that if the opportunity exists, someone will exercise that opportunity.
Of the people and by the people is a nice sound bite but many today would modify that to read...of the people with money, by the people with money, for the people with money.

I understand your point of view - and as I see it, as more and more wealth is concentrated with fewer and fewer people the possibility grows that the powerful could try to usurp our democracy. But I'm not ready to accept that with any plausibility right now.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Ever heard of drone strikes?

View embedded media

Yes I have...and do you understand the term "by and large". I understand these other thing , but please tell me why we are doing the drone strikes because I have no clue