POLITICAL THREAD
- Thread starter kybobcat
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Those willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.
Rand may be a wacko but he was 100% correct on this issue.
Easily the most overused and irrelevant quote from a Founder.
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People need to get over that Ben Franklin quote. It's been butchered and used out of context as he was talking about taxation and not electronic eavesdropping, which of course he would have known nothing about. I will sacrifice a tiny bit of freedom if it stops another 9-11.
There's no amount of eavesdropping that can prevent someone willing to kill themselves from killing others. So just how much are you willing to sacrifice?
Regardless of what you would allow unless you can read someone's mind, none of it would guarantee security. You might as well revoke the right to privacy.
Those who are sufisticated and know all electronic means of communication are being monitored will adapt and use primitive modes of communication...so are you going to allow the government to monitor all mail, capture carrier pigeons in flight, place listening devices in all of our homes and buildings, randomly stop people to inquire if they are couriers or if they know anything about their neighbors that would be of interest?
Tell me where your willing to allow the line to be drawn?
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Sure seems to be some butt hurt over the Democrat/Socialist reference. Smoke and Fire?
If he was talking about electronic eavesdropping, then Franklin really would have been a man ahead of his time!
The general point is still the same, whether you agree with it or not. And I am not one to say our Founding Fathers were right about everything (permitting slavery is a clear example of where they were wrong).
What many ignore, especially liberals, is that non-American citizens do not, well at least should not, have the same rights on our soil as American citizens.
Now I know that doesn't cover 100% of those who wish to do this country harm, but it does cover a very big chunk of them.
How many other things will FTS justify based on the remote possibility that a terrorist attack may happen in the future?
Guy must love "enhanced interrogation". That didn't even happen to people with Constitutional rights.
Guy must love "enhanced interrogation". That didn't even happen to people with Constitutional rights.
You have no fricking idea of who is sending or receiving data, phone conversations, web traffic, snail mail...until you have intercepted the communication and examined it.
The 9/11 hijackers were in this country for years before they acted. What happens when the next 9/11 is perpetrated by U.S. citizens? Timothy McVeigh was a U.S. citizen.
It is a slippery slope coated with graphite and has no logical bottom.
I bet deeeeee thinks Donald Trump is running the most positive campaign in history.
I mean, his whole campaign is centered around making America great again! No negativity in that message!! I bet he could bring us all together with that message, IMO.
I mean, his whole campaign is centered around making America great again! No negativity in that message!! I bet he could bring us all together with that message, IMO.
Jsust as people who claim life, liberty and pursuit of happiness covers why people should get free health insurance... a concept that didn't exist at the time it was written. but people from both sides like to bend the phrases to meet their talking points.
I tend to agree. In reality we have always had a balanced blend between freedom and security, becasue you can't have one to the total exclusion of the other. Sometimes the pendulum swings too far in one direction or the other but it usually stays close to where it should be.
Yeah, but the quote is so far out of context that people are using it for basically the opposite argument for which it was intended.
It's a coherent sentence, yes, but you might as well have conjured it out of thin air. It also isn't required to be true even though it's a real sentence. In fact, it's plain dumb.
All public safety is predicated on at least a little cooperation and group sacrifice, from traffic laws all the way up.
So a non-believer promotes this theory.Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days.
Multimedia
Slide Show
The Beginnings of Morality?
Biologists argue that these and other social behaviors are the precursors of human morality. They further believe that if morality grew out of behavioral rules shaped by evolution, it is for biologists, not philosophers or theologians, to say what these rules are.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/science/20moral.html?pagewanted=all
Published on Apr 10, 2012
http://www.ted.com Empathy, cooperation, fairness and reciprocity -- caring about the well-being of others seems like a very human trait. But Frans de Waal shares some surprising videos of behavioral tests, on primates and other mammals, that show how many of these moral traits all of us share.
Oh, and Trump still won.
Interesting.
From CNN:
CNN: Why do people need religion?
De Waal: Well, that's a good question. I'm struggling with that. I'm personally a nonbeliever, so I'm struggling with if we really need religion. ... I'm from the Netherlands, where 60% of the people are nonbelievers. So in northern Europe, there are actually experiments going on now with societies that are more secular, to see if we can maintain a moral society that way, and for the moment I would say that experiment is going pretty well. ... Personally I think it is possible to build a society that is moral on a nonreligious basis, but the jury is still out on that.
Fuzz is right. If someone wants to kill people, and isn't afraid of death or jail time it's hard to stop them.
Hey bub, you keep pointing out deeeee's hypocrisy and he will block you.
Just as people don't seem to understand which founding documents are, you know, law.
Q, I'm sure he already blocked me after calling me a "retard".
You know you've hit a nerve when you get a devoted liberal to use One of their banned words (hell, his little liberal buddies would want to run a conservative out of this country had they used it).
You know what, for 8 years of my career I've worked with folks with developmental disabilities. I'm offended and I think I should report him to the PC police. Maybe ruin his career and make him kiss some kids with DD in order for us to forgive him.
You know you've hit a nerve when you get a devoted liberal to use One of their banned words (hell, his little liberal buddies would want to run a conservative out of this country had they used it).
You know what, for 8 years of my career I've worked with folks with developmental disabilities. I'm offended and I think I should report him to the PC police. Maybe ruin his career and make him kiss some kids with DD in order for us to forgive him.
Too early for serious policy positions, which is too bad. But at least we get all "Make America great again!" we can handle.
Actually the liberals in the democratic party turned into a swear word because of their actions
interesting reading from a socialist
http://www.progressive.org/node/130774
It's very likely every post you've made on Catspause, every email you've sent, every text message you've sent and every phone call you've made is stored in a US Government database somewhere next to your name and picture.
That's not tinfoil hat bullshit. That's reality.
But when two psycho brothers who legitimately are supposed to be on terrorist watch lists decide to bomb the Boston marathon, the US government can't even stop it.
So should we give up more privacy?
Hell, the NSA probably has abortion records. Will that finally get people worried about privacy?
That's not tinfoil hat bullshit. That's reality.
But when two psycho brothers who legitimately are supposed to be on terrorist watch lists decide to bomb the Boston marathon, the US government can't even stop it.
So should we give up more privacy?
Hell, the NSA probably has abortion records. Will that finally get people worried about privacy?
Yes . Typical Democratic/leftist strategy . When you can't debate the subject just resort to name calling...stupid, racist, anti-women, etc. Let's you know you are hitting close to home
Do you mean like the things Isis & Iran (Obama's buddies) do?...Beheading children, women(raping also), killing people because they believe different...You mean those kinds of murders. I'm assuming you are saying America does this kind of stuff. Please tell me if America is so evil then why is it when there is a disaster or crisis in the world that those(even if they hate us) will call on this great country to bail them out? It is sad that evil exist in the world , but it exist because we have to choose where we stand. War is necessary sometimes in the face of this evil and innocent people die. But when things like 911...or this country is attacked...what do you want to happen?. If we hadn't dropped the bombs on Japan where do you think "your" country would be today?. That probably saved millions of lives.
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It is the case, at least to some degree. And my response is a big "so what?". I'm glad the FBI is able to pour over the phone records of the the Boston bombers and the Chattanooga shooter to see who else might be a danger. This is an important part of our system of defense. If you think they really care about your personal life then you really might be donning the tin foil hat.
Good lord.
All the information that's coming out about the IRS specifically targeting certain individuals and organizations based on political affiliation, and you're comfortable with the federal government collecting all this information on citizens. That's scary.
I hope you never visit a candidate's campaign stop and have the misfortune of asking the candidate a tough question. God forbid that candidate wins and is able to retaliate against you.
All the information that's coming out about the IRS specifically targeting certain individuals and organizations based on political affiliation, and you're comfortable with the federal government collecting all this information on citizens. That's scary.
I hope you never visit a candidate's campaign stop and have the misfortune of asking the candidate a tough question. God forbid that candidate wins and is able to retaliate against you.
You make it sound like they're wiretapping every single phone in the country. Snowden didn't reveal anything of the sort.
What they're doing is the telecommunications equivalent of keeping roadside surveillance of every license plate that passes by an intersection. If a crime occurs, they go to a *court* to get the plate registrations of specific vehicles unsealed. They definitely aren't searching and documenting the contents of every car that passes the camera.
If someone in power wanted to f8ck with you they wouldn't need NSA records to do it.
You guys have far more faith in the federal government than I do.
I doubt Snowden revealed a fraction of what actually is happening.
And yes, they wouldn't need the NSA data to f8ck with me. We've seen the way this administration has attempted to use IRS data against people. I guess we have to assume they aren't using the NSA data for the same purposes.
I doubt Snowden revealed a fraction of what actually is happening.
And yes, they wouldn't need the NSA data to f8ck with me. We've seen the way this administration has attempted to use IRS data against people. I guess we have to assume they aren't using the NSA data for the same purposes.
Faith? No. But there's a difference between reasonable skepticism and blind, hysterical paranoia.
Not sure why everybody's down on the Fed'l gov't.
Look at the great job the EPA's doing, for example:
"An 80-mile length of mustard-colored water -- laden with arsenic, lead, copper, aluminum and cadmium -- is working its way south toward New Mexico and Utah, following Wednesday's accidental release from the Gold King Mine, near Durango, when an EPA cleanup crew destabilized a dam of loose rock lodged in the mine. The crew was supposed to pump out and decontaminate the sludge, but instead released it into tiny Cement Creek. From there, it flowed into the Animas River and made its way into larger tributaries, including the San Juan and Colorado rivers."
Look at the great job the EPA's doing, for example:
"An 80-mile length of mustard-colored water -- laden with arsenic, lead, copper, aluminum and cadmium -- is working its way south toward New Mexico and Utah, following Wednesday's accidental release from the Gold King Mine, near Durango, when an EPA cleanup crew destabilized a dam of loose rock lodged in the mine. The crew was supposed to pump out and decontaminate the sludge, but instead released it into tiny Cement Creek. From there, it flowed into the Animas River and made its way into larger tributaries, including the San Juan and Colorado rivers."
New poll from NBC has Trump (23), Cruz (13), and Carson (11) as the top 3.
No words.
No words.
Jesus. It's almost like they want to lose this thing.
Time for Jeb to lurch far, far to the right if he's going to get back to the top of the pack.
