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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
I understand your point of view - and as I see it, as more and more wealth is concentrated with fewer and fewer people the possibility grows that the powerful could try to usurp our democracy. But I'm not ready to accept that with any plausibility right now.
LOL, by not accepting it now you only allow those who would perpetrate such actions to have X number of years of data and time to perfect their methodologies for mining such data.
 
What ISIS and others are doing is deplorable. But you think it's because we are some majestic place in the west? You think we've done nothing to attract this hatred and hostility? I think the last 30+ years of actual history says otherwise. Israel? Yeah they're practically saints as well. No one would ever have a reason to be angry with them. Occupation...pfff that's nothing be upset about. Paraphrasing Noam here. If you want to stop terrorism then stop participating in it. Pretty simple.
Ok I'm going to bite on this one..."If you want to stop terrorism then stop participating in it. Pretty simple."...Ok so you are saying to tell ISIS and the others that we will leave them alone and they will stop killing everybody BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY BELIEVE...What the hell would you have done about 911?...Nothing?
 
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I understand your point of view - and as I see it, as more and more wealth is concentrated with fewer and fewer people the possibility grows that the powerful could try to usurp our democracy. But I'm not ready to accept that with any plausibility right now.

The powerful have already usurped our democracy. Our country isnt governed by politicians. Its governed by a handful of extraordinarily powerful/wealthy people who control the politicians like puppets on a string.

Edited to remove a partial post I was going to make last night, but decided to not make it. Somehow it got mixed in with this reply.
 
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I'm not on the traditional left, but my issue is many think we ALL should live by the rules in their magic book. I think the magic book is a pile of crap, so I don't really want my legislation based on it. I already know not to murder, rape and steal (Don't use the abortion excuse. I don't have a vagina, therefore I will abort zero babies) because I'm a decent dude. Not because I'm scared of an eternal lake of fire.

Marriage equality is one issue where Christians are trying to save everyone's soul. Just follow your rituals and not worry about what others do in their private lives. <--- bolded part is why I can't stand social conservatives.

Why do (some) Christians care where their neighbor puts his dick? If you don't like being gay, don't be gay.
Why do (some) Christians wanna promote abstinence only sex education? I wanna bang, and I ain't waiting until I'm stuck with her forever.
Why do (some) Christians wanna outlaw gambling and drinking? I wanna get shitfaced and play some blackjack, let me do it.
Why do (some) Christians wanna demonize people of other faiths or no faiths at all? Religious freedom, remember?

I haven't posted here in years, but I wanted to take a stab at this. I am a Christian. I believe one can have a personal relationship with that magician in the sky Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is the manual that shows us how we ought to live. It's a big, long book that cannot be understood without the help of the Holy Spirit. The Bible has many examples of God's relationship with the Hebrew people throughout history, and whenever the Hebrew people strayed from God, which was often, they met much strife. As a believer in the God of the Jews, these examples are at the forefront of my thinking. I don't want hardships for my country. I want my country to walk in the spirit of God, and I want his continual blessings on the USofA. I see many people turning from God, and taking my country with them. My belief has been "I believe this country was founded as a Christian nation, and I don't believe we should condone an act that the Bible tells us is wrong if we desire God's continued hand of blessing." I was and am against the legalization of gay marriage, because I believe it is wrong. Just as divorce, pre-marital sex, and beastiality is wrong. And yes, I'm against those things too. I am disappointed that my fellow Christians have accepted divorce and sex outside of marriage, while fighting so fervently against homosexuality. But it's the current fight, so I understand it.

I am against abortion, with the only exception being life of mother. I can't stand to hear people say that I'm cruel because I want a woman to be reminded of her rape every time she looks at her child. I got news for you folks, she's not ever going to forget that, whether a child has been born of it or not. As Marco Rubio said, "I personally believe that you do not correct one tragedy with a second tragedy." People don't like to talk about the consequences of abortion, because they're terrible. It is extremely rare that there is not guilt accompanied with aborting your child. Why add guilt and shame to a situation loaded with guilt and shame? Besides, "rape and incest" pregnancies are such a small percentages of abortions done in our baby butcher shops. And people can scoff all they want, but approving of abortion does desensitize us to the importance and value of human life. It saddens me to see people support abortion like it's some great human rights issue. I can't imagine God is over joyed with it either.

Having said all that, I was wrong to expect God's relationship with America to parallel that of His relationship with Israel. Nowhere has it ever been written that God has a special relationship with us like he does Israel. So, I suppose I should not expect his blessings on this nation when we walk right with Him. I do however, believe that it is my job to continue to fight for the sanctity of life and bring people hope in the eternal salvation of Jesus Christ.
 
So if "rape and incest" made up a larger percentage of unwanted pregnancies, would you allow abortion in those cases then? If so, what is the percentage?


No. But nice catch. I shouldn't have written that like that. I meant that people argue over that so much, when it's such a miniscule percentage of reality. I don't mean to trivialize it either. But I feel abortion in those instances just make a terrible event even worse.
 
I haven't posted here in years, but I wanted to take a stab at this. I am a Christian. I believe one can have a personal relationship with that magician in the sky Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is the manual that shows us how we ought to live. It's a big, long book that cannot be understood without the help of the Holy Spirit. The Bible has many examples of God's relationship with the Hebrew people throughout history, and whenever the Hebrew people strayed from God, which was often, they met much strife. As a believer in the God of the Jews, these examples are at the forefront of my thinking. I don't want hardships for my country. I want my country to walk in the spirit of God, and I want his continual blessings on the USofA. I see many people turning from God, and taking my country with them. My belief has been "I believe this country was founded as a Christian nation, and I don't believe we should condone an act that the Bible tells us is wrong if we desire God's continued hand of blessing." I was and am against the legalization of gay marriage, because I believe it is wrong. Just as divorce, pre-marital sex, and beastiality is wrong. And yes, I'm against those things too. I am disappointed that my fellow Christians have accepted divorce and sex outside of marriage, while fighting so fervently against homosexuality. But it's the current fight, so I understand it.

I am against abortion, with the only exception being life of mother. I can't stand to hear people say that I'm cruel because I want a woman to be reminded of her rape every time she looks at her child. I got news for you folks, she's not ever going to forget that, whether a child has been born of it or not. As Marco Rubio said, "I personally believe that you do not correct one tragedy with a second tragedy." People don't like to talk about the consequences of abortion, because they're terrible. It is extremely rare that there is not guilt accompanied with aborting your child. Why add guilt and shame to a situation loaded with guilt and shame? Besides, "rape and incest" pregnancies are such a small percentages of abortions done in our baby butcher shops. And people can scoff all they want, but approving of abortion does desensitize us to the importance and value of human life. It saddens me to see people support abortion like it's some great human rights issue. I can't imagine God is over joyed with it either.

Having said all that, I was wrong to expect God's relationship with America to parallel that of His relationship with Israel. Nowhere has it ever been written that God has a special relationship with us like he does Israel. So, I suppose I should not expect his blessings on this nation when we walk right with Him. I do however, believe that it is my job to continue to fight for the sanctity of life and bring people hope in the eternal salvation of Jesus Christ.
I am also a Christian, and I want you to ponder what I am about to say, because I think it could be an interesting discussion. I believe we, as Christians, have an obligation to try and communicate our belief in what is right and wrong. I also believe we should try and influence people's behavior through our understanding of right and wrong. However, I think it is inappropriate to try and legislate morality as we see it and make criminals out of people who are choosing a different path than we think they should. Free people will make decisions we don't agree with and they should be allowed to make those decisions as long as those decisions don't interfere with the liberty of another person. We live in a society based on the idea of individual liberty. The laws of a free society will, by necessity, be different than one based on religious teachings. I am perfectly fine with that because I believe in liberty. Aside from that, Jesus never advocated for the State to legislate morality. Jesus himself taught free will and that each of us has the will to follow his teachings or not. Churches fighting to legislate behavior, not only run counter to the idea of liberty, but it runs counter to the teachings of Jesus in my mind. We should be the ones who uphold the concept of liberty, but also trying to educate people about the choices they make. I see no inconsistency whatsoever with liberty and Christianity.
 
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post-debate polling in NH:

Trump 18% (-7)
Bush 13% (even)
Kasich 12% (+3)
Fiorina 9% (+6)
 
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Hillary must be concerned about Rubio. She took an expected shot at Trump yesterday, but attempted to take one at Rubio too.
 
Curious as to how people feel about Black Lives Matter interjecting themselves into Bernie Sanders rallies.
 
I must be out of touch, I don't want Trump or Bush.......
The main thing to remember is that a lot of these polls aren't going to reflect reality quite as well as general election ones do. Primary/caucus voters are notoriously fickle about turning out. Also, in general, experts are expecting Trump voters to be much more likely to flake than Jeb voters will be.
 
That is a very Clinton thing to do, get militant blacks to disrupt rallies of a rival. Taints him with perceived racism problems for no reason or justification whatsoever.
 
I think you're spot on. That's what I'm evolving to, I think. I said that I wanted us to live as a nation that glorifies God to received His blessings, but have come to the realization that we can't be the Hebrew people. That is not what God has called us to be. Instead of honoring God at a personal level, like we are called to do, I tried to project that onto a national level, which we aren't called to do. As for "legislating morality", we do that all the time. Anti-discrimination laws at their very heart are based on "morality." I guess it depends on what your source of morality is, I guess. People are hostile to God, and don't want to acknowledge His authority. I get that, but good luck making any laws protecting the minority groups without using "legislating morality."
 
National Nurses United, the largest organization of nurses with 185,000 members, has endorsed Sanders.
 
Ok I'm going to bite on this one..."If you want to stop terrorism then stop participating in it. Pretty simple."...Ok so you are saying to tell ISIS and the others that we will leave them alone and they will stop killing everybody BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY BELIEVE...What the hell would you have done about 911?...Nothing?
I don't know what I would have done. I know wouldn't have invaded a country that had nothing to do with it. Military force should always be the last resort and it should be unquestionably justified. We did not make the best decisions post 9/11. As far as ISIS? I'm not sure how you deal with them either. That's not my expertise. I do know that we can lead the world as a better example though. You are Murica through and through. I get it. I understand. I really do. But if you're honest with yourself then you will admit that we need to take a long hard look in the mirror and fix what we can about ourselves. We can't control everyone else's actions, but we can control our own. I expect better from my country.
 
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I'd actually love to see Bernie run as an independent. He's not gonna steal any (many) votes from the right, other than for the novelty. Also would like to see Rand Paul quit joking around and just go to the Libertarian ticket. Four viable, legitimate candidates on the debate stage would be phenomenal.

Anything to break up or put a wrinkle in the two party system is a win in my book.
 
I don't know what I would have done. I know wouldn't have invaded a country that had nothing to do with it. Military force should always be the last resort and it should be unquestionably justified. We did not make the best decisions post 9/11. As far as ISIS? I'm not sure how you deal with them either. That's not my expertise. I do know that we can lead the world as a better example though. You are Murica through and through. I get it. I understand. I really do. But if you're honest with yourself then you will admit that we need to take a long hard look in the mirror and fix what we can about ourselves. We can't control everyone else's actions, but we can control our own. I expect better from my country.
That works for everyday life, but I'm not sure it works for foreign policy. With nuclear weapons at stake, I'm not sure any country can afford to look at itself and not be concerned about what is going on somewhere else. It's a difficult position, but I don't think it is prudent to just let things play out without trying to influence how it plays out.
 
Curious as to how people feel about Black Lives Matter interjecting themselves into Bernie Sanders rallies.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were on The Chipmunk's payroll. Otherwise you have to believe their leaders are idiots if they think a tactic like that will help their cause. They're beating a willing horse.
 
That works for everyday life, but I'm not sure it works for foreign policy. With nuclear weapons at stake, I'm not sure any country can afford to look at itself and not be concerned about what is going on somewhere else. It's a difficult position, but I don't think it is prudent to just let things play out without trying to influence how it plays out.
I agree. Influencing for the betterment of humanity is fine. Influencing for profit and power isn't.
 
Voting for Trump is like pulling the pin on a grenade and pitching it into the melee. Some actually want that, obviously.

My concern is what this nonsense says about how the world views the stability of our political system coming on the heels of us demonstrating that our financial system is highly suspect.

We are not the world's greatest sole remaining superpower because of our military. We are because the world trusts the stability of our markets and our political system. Our military protects that stability but it cannot make others believe it is so.

There are and will be repercussions for these flights from reality. We are a declining giant in its death throes for all intents and purposes. You cannot take solace in the fact that you are not down the drain yet if you are circling it rapidly. Trump is a symptom of our decline. A rage against the darkness. The last gasp of a dying country.
 
I think you're spot on. That's what I'm evolving to, I think. I said that I wanted us to live as a nation that glorifies God to received His blessings, but have come to the realization that we can't be the Hebrew people. That is not what God has called us to be. Instead of honoring God at a personal level, like we are called to do, I tried to project that onto a national level, which we aren't called to do. As for "legislating morality", we do that all the time. Anti-discrimination laws at their very heart are based on "morality." I guess it depends on what your source of morality is, I guess. People are hostile to God, and don't want to acknowledge His authority. I get that, but good luck making any laws protecting the minority groups without using "legislating morality."

I would hope not that America would become under a rule such as biblical Hebrews. It would be similar to being a theocracy or theocratic endorsed monarchs as those under Sharia law.
Ancient Greek philosophers and namely Aristotle created the foundation for Western institutions of democracy and the notion of liberty. So the basis of such government "morality" is a philosophical institution.
If you consider minority equal rights legislation as a Christian endeavor. Then why was slavery in America justified with Biblical texts? "slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" (Ephesians 6:5)
While abolitionists such has John G Fee create schools based on, “God has made of one blood all peoples of the earth.” (Acts 17:26)
How can you create law for a society based on a text that is conflicted in the way it's interpreted?
Religion should be a personal enlightenment for the betterment of oneself and relationship with family and neighbor.
 
... Back to my point of practicing one's own religion the way they see fit without it spilling over onto all of us via legislation based on a novel that may or not be true.

If I was talking the same God talk but using Spiderman instead, y'all would think I was crazy. There's no sense in arguing these points. Apparently some Christians don't get the point that not everyone is a Christian. Quick to dismiss other faiths, but quick to get all holy when theirs is dismissed.

Hypocrisy and religion go hand in hand.
 
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I'd actually love to see Bernie run as an independent. He's not gonna steal any (many) votes from the right, other than for the novelty. Also would like to see Rand Paul quit joking around and just go to the Libertarian ticket. Four viable, legitimate candidates on the debate stage would be phenomenal.

Anything to break up or put a wrinkle in the two party system is a win in my book.
Hell, throw trump in and make it an even nickel.
 
If Donald were to somehow win the popular vote, you would see real quick why the Electoral College system is still in place.
 
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Voting for Trump is like pulling the pin on a grenade and pitching it into the melee. Some actually want that, obviously.

My concern is what this nonsense says about how the world views the stability of our political system coming on the heels of us demonstrating that our financial system is highly suspect.

We are not the world's greatest sole remaining superpower because of our military. We are because the world trusts the stability of our markets and our political system. Our military protects that stability but it cannot make others believe it is so.

There are and will be repercussions for these flights from reality. We are a declining giant in its death throes for all intents and purposes. You cannot take solace in the fact that you are not down the drain yet if you are circling it rapidly. Trump is a symptom of our decline. A rage against the darkness. The last gasp of a dying country.
16 years of BO+HC and America may wakeup, but it will probably be too late...and I meant to say along with a gutless GOP legislative branch..
 
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