North Carolina Scandal Etc
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The AFAM classes are just the tip of the iceberg. There are many more classes and the whole thing with faking the disabilities is so inflammatory and condescending to minorities that if African Americans ever actually fully understand how insidious this scheme was then UNC is toast. They have powerful ties because of the fake Deano civil rights nonsense that has saved them thus far, but if the true level of how heinous UNC's actions were ever comes to light they are truly toast.
Everything about UNC is in question , there's so much deceit how can you tell what's real and what's fabricated . I have never witnessed a school under fire behave this way , I don't know if it's born out of arrogance or defiance . What this has become is a basic game of stare down , their ploy is to keep stalling and drag it out in the belief that people will just give up . They are also trying to convey the message that no way a school would put up this much fight if they were guilty . Best rogue in history as already pointed out .
This is correct and was "reclarified' a few days ago on packpride. Manalishi is the poster on packpride who obviously has irrefutable sources, or is the source, on details of the UNC scandal and how it has unfolded. I'm a UK fan but have been following packpride on this for about 4 years now and manalishi has been spot on with his comments time after time after time. His posts can sometimes be a little cryptic, but his predictions routinely turn into reality. Pointwolf and wufwuf1 are two others that are in the know, there are a few others as well. If Manalishi, pointwolf, or wufwuf1 post info, you can pretty much take it to the bank.
The "kraken" moniker was penned by other packpride posters after manalishi first gave them a framework of what the kraken was, or is. It is heavily damaging information that is not athletic or NCAA related. Instead it is information that would expose/indict individuals who (the following is my understanding) have engaged in negligent or maybe even criminal acts with regards to financial activities that would not only affect UNC, but other universities in the NC university system as well. Manalishi also posted that if these issues were to come to light, a lot of innocent people would be harmed. Those two reasons are primarily why the "kraken" is being held in reserve.
For those here who worry that UNC is going to skate, manalishi had a pretty length post shortly (within hours, IIRC) after the NOA release a few months ago. One of his statements was that "UNC is going to get hit hard, both past and present". He also said there will be some (packpriders) who feel that they didn't get hit hard enough, but that he felt most (packpriders) would be pleased.
My interpretation of that is UNC and NCAA have brokered a "deal" that Dean will be left alone (the NOA accusations start after DS retired) even though the evidence clearly indicts him as the likely architect of the whole scheme - they didn't get hit hard enough. Roy is going to get hammered though with lots of vacated W's and at least one (I hope both) of his titles taken away - most will be pleased. Just so I don't confuse, the previous sentences are my specualtion and not what I have seen manalishi, pointwolf, or wufwuf1 post on packpride.
Like I said, I've been following this on packpride for quite some time. I can't totally keep up with them because I would have to spend about 4 hours a day over there. LOL! I would encourage posters here to venture over there a few times a week for a half hour or so (sorry Mods, LOL) in order to keep up with what is going on at ground zero. You can surf thru a lot of the posts as there is a great deal of redundancy, etc. When you come across something from pointwolf or wufwuf1, or the occasional/rare manalishi post, home in that data and the ensuing discussion from the packpriders. There are lots of other packpriders who stay on top of it all and can quickly connect dots to what is a very large and tangled web of lies, deceit, and outright BS perpetrated by UNC. It is very informative, and if you've had the Carolina Way BS shoved down your throat by ESPN and every other major news outlet for the past 40 years like I have, then it's also a lot of fun! LOL!
Sorry for the long post!
Nice summation from bigbluehomer . If that were to transpire it would still be shameful for the NCAA to allow a known liar and cheat (Dean Smith) to avoid his creation simply because UNC bartered a deal . Just because Dean Smith is adored by many doesn't make it right , his adoration has been built on a complete lie . The man built the biggest sports scam in history of any sport due to the duration and number of individuals involved , just despicable on his part .
Respectfully, I will offer at least one other perspective. Manalishi hasn't impressed me. His posts are often cryptic and lack specifics. He may well be "in the know" but I am not even completely convinced of that based on some of his posts. Having said all that, I hope I am wrong.
As for the kracken, I say, "Release it!" If someone did some serious wrongdoing, the greater risk is not releasing the information but hiding it. I am most ofen in the camp of full disclosure, as long as common sense is applied.
Why stop there? ChapelHeeled, that old loon Gary, and blowhard DSouthr probably have a lot to say as well.
DSouthr is one of my favorites over there. He would write these long lengthy posts that sounded so believable but filled with BS. I once compared his writings to Dan Brown who has the gift to do the same thing.
I remember his posts on PJ, paper classes, Roy's knowledge, etc. My biggest regret is that I didn't save them for a book. They were classic!
You hit the nail on the head. That guy writes a novella in every one of his posts, and they're all so delusional.
I've said it before, I'll say it again...
UNC will get little more than a wrist slap for the same reason nothing ever came of the UCLA mess...Dean like Wooden, is a pillar of collegiate athletics...tarnishing either one would be an indictment on the whole system...
and even more so today than way back then, there is too much to lose for too many people...NCAA, ACC, and ESPN make a lot of money off the Carolina Basketball brand...
UNC will get little more than a wrist slap for the same reason nothing ever came of the UCLA mess...Dean like Wooden, is a pillar of collegiate athletics...tarnishing either one would be an indictment on the whole system...
and even more so today than way back then, there is too much to lose for too many people...NCAA, ACC, and ESPN make a lot of money off the Carolina Basketball brand...
I've become a secondary NC State fan over the years. They are the one unpretentious "Everyman" school in the state vs. UNC and their faux-Ivy public school conceits, and mega-rich-kid U at Duke. If I was a North Carolina resident - as a proud hard-working middle-class type - I'd be a NC State fan - no question.
You know, I've thought about this scenario. I admire the work they've done on this whole thing, but I gotta say, I do get tired of reading some of their slanderous comments about Calipari over on PackPride when Kentucky is mentioned. There's a few of them that are very complimentary of UK and I'm grateful for that, but there's some real mud slingers as well. If only the latter realized how large BBN is and how easy it is for us to get 'their' message out to the masses, they'd be a little more friendly, and collaborative. Then again, maybe they don't care, which makes this a moot point.
You know, I've thought about this scenario. I admire the work they've done on this whole thing, but I gotta say, I do get tired of reading some of their slanderous comments about Calipari over on PackPride when Kentucky is mentioned. There's a few of them that are very complimentary of UK and I'm grateful for that, but there's some real mud slingers as well. If only the latter realized how large BBN is and how easy it is for us to get 'their' message out to the masses, they'd be a little more friendly, and collaborative. Then again, maybe they don't care, which makes this a moot point.
As the old saying goes, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I think we and NCst fans share a common "enemy" in UNC. After Cal came, every time I visited the UNC board, all I read about UK was about how Cal cheats. And, if that weren't bad enough, posters like RevHeels would come over here to brag on Dean and rip on Cal.
Anyone notice that the big mouth hasn't been back since he accused us of lying about the UNC scandal? He didn't even know the facts of the scandal so we educated him and he ran away. Good riddance.
Yeah, but when the NCAA no longer values a student-athlete's education, there's a very real chance they cease to exist, per Congress. Plus, they're getting sued left and right over this very issue. ESPN probably makes very little off UNC**. College basketball is life to BBN, but in the big picture, it barely moves the needle. I'd be willing to bet self preservation wins out with the NCAA. We shall see.
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Very solid point. We do share a common bond. Plus, I even agree with most Dukies on this. Amazing that UK and Duke are at the top right now, yet we get along because of this issue. Plus Mark and Dodger are just good dudes, and they're sick of the sanctimonious attitude as well.
Speaking of RevHeels, where did Bobby go? Did he take his ball and go home? What a loser.
KU fans are 'wanna bees', but their NCAA record leaves much to be desired. They love to talk smack, but rarely get it done when it matters. Self is not a good coach when it comes to developing talent and it wouldn't surprise me if Diallo never qualifies. Even with Bragg and Diallo, we are much more talented overall and K do not expect to lose to them in Lawrence. Even if we do, we won't in the NCAA which we all learned last year is the only thing that really matters.
That's interesting and I appreciate you posting that because there's always a chance (some say a good one) I could be wrong. LOL! Although I have "followed" packpride closely, there have been periods of 2 or 3 weeks during lulls in the scandal that I have not visited the site. So there very well could be some things from him that I've missed. OTOH, I honestly can't think of anything I've seen from manalishi that wasn't pretty much spot on, and over a pretty long period of time.
When the whole scandal really started getting some attention and traction, it quickly became obvious that some inside UNC sources were feeding info to media (Kane) and packpride. IIRC it was finally revealed that Mary Willingham was Kane's primary source. One of packprides earliest revelations was "finding" the Julius Peppers transcript on the UNC website (I think it was wufwuf1). I don't think that "just happened" per chance. LOL! Had to be planted/orchestrated by someone inside UNC to get a real big zinger out there for attention from the Nat'l media. No way UNC would/could let something like that slip.
But I also must admit that I've been hook line and sinkered more than once by highly connected sources that post on message boards! Still smile at how happy I was "that Billy D. was a done deal", LOL! Seems like connected sources usually get exposed fairly soon though, a 4 year run is a long time.. As vicious as the packpriders have been on UNC, I would like to think they would have outted manalishi by now.
Insightful editorial from UNC's student newspaper:
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article...uld-stand-by-employees-in-a-consistent-manner
"It seems odd that, after the Wainstein report, women’s basketball should be singled out for special focus when the report clearly stated fraudulent classes at the heart of this scandal were created for and most frequently used by athletes in the revenue sports of football and men’s basketball.
This seems especially troubling when the NCAA’s notice of allegations seemed to extensively use the Wainstein report as its primary source of evidence. Did NCAA investigators neglect to read Wainstein’s executive summary? The focus on women’s basketball echoes the placement of axe falls after the Wainstein report’s release. Heads rolled but choices were puzzling.
If Professor Tim McMillan and Bobbi Owen, both academics, were guilty for not asking enough questions, why wasn’t Roy Williams, the person in charge of ensuring institutional control for the men’s basketball team while almost a decade of fraudulent classes were taking place?"
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article...uld-stand-by-employees-in-a-consistent-manner
"It seems odd that, after the Wainstein report, women’s basketball should be singled out for special focus when the report clearly stated fraudulent classes at the heart of this scandal were created for and most frequently used by athletes in the revenue sports of football and men’s basketball.
This seems especially troubling when the NCAA’s notice of allegations seemed to extensively use the Wainstein report as its primary source of evidence. Did NCAA investigators neglect to read Wainstein’s executive summary? The focus on women’s basketball echoes the placement of axe falls after the Wainstein report’s release. Heads rolled but choices were puzzling.
If Professor Tim McMillan and Bobbi Owen, both academics, were guilty for not asking enough questions, why wasn’t Roy Williams, the person in charge of ensuring institutional control for the men’s basketball team while almost a decade of fraudulent classes were taking place?"
I am reading the book "cheated" which exposes the scam of the Carolina Way.
The North Carolina Administration and the NCAA are equally corrupt.
I highly recommend the book.
I'd like to agree with you on Self not developing talent, but its hard to get guys to buy into a system in just one year. What I saw is they got better under Self as time went by, but I'd be content if we came out of there with a 1 point win this year. Kansas will be good once again.
He sure got upset over the comments about selling shoes. I think we hit a nerve.
I honestly think that Bethel got over his head on this documentary. Face it, how in the world can you put lipstick on a pig? But even so, as many have noted, this scandal has gotten scant publicity, which is the direct opposite of the PSU scandal. That doesn't bode well for his documentary to be seen by many people.
If his intent is to throw $150K into a documentary for a few people to see, I guess he will get what he wants. Besides, all a documentary on this subject can do is make UNC look bad. I don't think the academic side of the university is going to be happy about that.
I say all that to say that I suspect that the money has run out by now and that is why he is selling shoes. $150K isn't much. I have a kid in the film industry (currently in the educational side) and I know $150K is not that much money for this kind of project.
Pack Pride is great but they get sort of weirdly cultish over Manlishi. From the outside he seems to be 25% deep inside information, 25% deductive reasoning, and 50% bullcrap. A little too cute for my tastes. If you know something then say it. It serves no purpose in being cute other than to give you wiggle room so that whatever happens can be molded into your "inside information" as it were. We see that all the time in recruiting and it goes back even further in all the Psychic types that would make 500 ambiguous predictions for the year then toot the 2 or 3 they got right like it was a gift.
Plus PP will claim you are a hole troll and ban you in a heartbeat. A real shame because all their stuff has been wonderful but it has made them a little loopy.
Plus PP will claim you are a hole troll and ban you in a heartbeat. A real shame because all their stuff has been wonderful but it has made them a little loopy.
That is true, very true in fact. From my perspective it is because he has posted accurate information and predictions over a long period of time. As I posted earlier, I don't think there's any doubt that there have been leaks/moles from within UNC trying to get control of the university back into the hands of academics. My assumption is that manalishi is either one of the moles, or a mouthpiece.
He rarely posts, but the one that really turned my head a year or so ago was his call on the Wainstein report. Can't remember the exact timeframe, but UNC had given some approximate time (in a few months, end of this month, etc.) of the completion and release of the Wainstein report. This timeline had passed and packpride was, well, restless. LOL! Manalishi posted that there had been big turn in the Wainstein report, one that was not necessarily favorable to UNC. he then got a little cryptic and said that "think of what sometimes happens to the owner of an exotic pet", or something close to that. Several packpriders tried to solve the riddle until someone came up with "the exotic pet can turn on/attack the owner".
A few months or so later the report was released with basically a whitewash of a report in that it basically said that Nyangoro and Crowder were responsible for the whole shebang, aka the UNC company line and what I suspect is what UNC told Wainstein to say.......but the supplemental attachments then proceeded to blow the whole thing open. IMO, this was the climax of the whole scandal. At that point the cat was out of the bag and the scandal was decidedly changed forever in a manner very detrimental to UNC. Once the treasure trove of information had been vetted, and the realization of what it's release by KW meant, manalishi, pointwolf, wufwuf1, and others filled in the "gaps" of manalishi's post/prediction.
And that was KW, at some point, had come to the realization that the UNC cesspool was far more than he anticipated and that his reputation could/would be at stake (think Gov. Martin and his ridiculous sham report). My speculation is that KW was informed by someone (Dan Kane, Jay Smith ???) who had the information that would shred his report if it followed the storyline dictated by UNC. Supposedly at some point during KW's investigation when he had seen that the AFAM dept. was only a fraction of the academic fraud he informed UNC about it and offered to expand his scope and was flatly told "no, keep it to AFAM only". This was the period during the investigation when "things changed", as manalishi had said. The release of the supplemental information (damning emails and such) was the exotic animal prediction.
Now could all of that be a big fairy tale? It sure could. But the supplemental information release was essentially a total contradiction to the "report". Why did KW include it? No way in hell did UNC want that information made public. It is probably the only reason why things are as they are today, UNC is backed into a corner and desperately clawing at anything trying to survive. So at a minimum, IMO, manalishi's post is at least a very plausible explanation.
Sorry again for the lengthy blabbering, I'm not trying to be the spokesperson for defending manalishi, or any of the packpriders. To keep from boring people to tears, I will make this my last. I certainly don't mean to disparage others concerning their opinions of manalishi and the other packpride "insiders". As I've said, I've been "Billy D. done dealed" before. And in closing I should probably throw in a quick CYOA of "TIFWIW" as I freely admit that 99% of the information my opinions are based on comes from the internet! LOL!
bigbluehomer, Thanks for your posts on the subject. While our views may differ, you have done an excellent job of stating the other side. I come to this board to read both sides and form my own opinions. The fact that you have spent so much time on PackPride gives even more credence to your position. Keep posting, my friend!
Barong23, you and I are pretty much on the same page. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Now, we can sit back and see what happens next. I guess the next big thing will be Bethel's documentary. I am sure that calling attention to the massive fraud at UNC isn't going to make some happy, especially as he blames a number of administrators for either complicity or complete incompetence.
We need to get the popcorn ready!!!
The comments section is really starting to heat up!
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article...uld-stand-by-employees-in-a-consistent-manner
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article...uld-stand-by-employees-in-a-consistent-manner
I think the hilarity would be if he actually succeeds in making his documentary. Pack pride would rip it to pieces and probably do an MST3K video on YouTube. I think we would do a handy job at ripping it apart as well.
Supposedly this board is the most read college basketball board on the web so I have always thought us talking about this scandal helped to keep it in the lime light. There was a time when I thought those who said that nothing would happen or those who whined about seeing too many threads would kill UNC*** conversations. It helps that we have Brad coming over and guys like Shun to keep us entertained and keep the conversation going. UNC*** helps to keep it going as well due to their poor handling of the whole scandal.
I lived in Charlotte for 10 years and the number of times I heard UNC*** did it the right way annoyed me to no end.
At this point I'm not sure the NCAA believes there's a connection between their right to exist and punishment of anyone.
1) Yep! If I were a UNC fan, I would tell Bradley to quit. He hasn't helped his cause one bit. In fact, I think he has hurt it.
2) Some wonder why I am SO passionate about this scandal and the answer is simple: I have listened to the UNC fans brag on Dean Smyth for years now and rip on UK. They always bragged that they were squeaky clean and now we know the truth.
Enjoyed watching Bethel get destroyed. Also, do those idiots not realize Wayne Walden was a member of the mbb staff?
Speaking of getting destroyed, this quote was in that article from the DailyTarheel:
"UNC’s leaders are certainly interested in making sure fraudulent classes never again take place at this university."
Read more: http://www.dailytarheel.com/article...uld-stand-by-employees-in-a-consistent-manner
Quoted from The Daily Tar Heel
I am sure that Bethel will put that in the documentary and include the emails. (complete sarcasm) I don't think the weasel has any intention of being honest in his film. His talking points include, "Well, we don't know the context of those emails." which was one of the talking points at PSU. Some people have no integrity.
This has to the most Crazy's statement ever made by a HC in the NCAA history. I bet just about every Football HC was laughing .![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
Roy Williams statement - We don't know what's going on everyday. I've got 13 to 17 kids, counting the walk on.
Roy Williams statement - We don't know what's going on everyday. I've got 13 to 17 kids, counting the walk on.
Amazing, isn't it? He doesn't keep track of his players, yet he's going to go into their homes and tell their parents that he's going to make them better players and better men? Shameful.This has to the most Crazy's statement ever made by a HC in the NCAA history. I bet just about every Football HC was laughing .
Roy Williams statement - We don't know what's going on everyday. I've got 13 to 17 kids, counting the walk on.
Not only that but he's regularly paid a substantial bonus for his player's classroom achievement.
And people are supposed to believe he wasn't aware of the details of his players coursework? The only thing more unbelievable is how most in the media have given him a free pass on this issue.
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