What about just keeping draft rights to a player? It's basically what they do with overseas players. Doesn't MLB do something similar?
NCAA announces Commission on College Basketball
- Thread starter YouKay
- Start date
It sure is. Look it up.A personal attack is a logical fallacy?
I wasn't calling you names.. the words I used describe your stance on this. Wouldn't wanna see you get called any actual bad names
Anyway, I never suggested universities/shoe companies should pay players. Clearly payments are being made under the table in college sports. Why not allow the students to earn income from their likeness? It would not only be fair, open, and legal, but also surely cut down on the bribery.
You called me childish and naive. That's name calling. And now you're using a red herring (another logical fallacy) to distract people from the argument by making me seem thin skinned. I'm not offended by you out you or what you call me, but if you use these fallacies on a consistent basis you're gonna get called out by anyone whose been educated.
You never answered my question. If we pay college athletes for the revenue they bring into the univerisity then why shouldn't we also pay high school and middle school athletes for the revenue they bring into their schools? Why aren't we paying kids in elementary school for the money they bring to rec leagues?
Dodging/deflecting questions, like you just did, is another logical fallacy. For someone that calls other people childish and naive you seem to have a very weak grasp on what it takes to have a cordial discussion with another human being. You must be a joy to be around.
You've written 2 full paragraphs moaning about me calling you names but I'm the one dodging questions oh please
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
I gave you a solution to the college problem, which you ignored. I didn't answer to paying middle school and high school because it's completely irrelevant. The issue is NCAA eligibility. But sure, if young kids want to be ambitious and find a way to earn money for themselves playing ball THEN THEY CAN DO IT - it's a free country. Try to understand my point if possible. I won't hold my breath.
I think it will devolve into a Yankees situation. The writer is making a foolish assumption, that the top schools now would remain the top schools when you're allowed to buy players. More likely is schools in top markets and schools with the most willing booster money would suddenly become the "top schools". It would ruin the sport.
Not many people take you seriously, do they? You're behavior mirrors that of a troll.You've written 2 full paragraphs moaning about me calling you names but I'm the one dodging questions oh please
I gave you a solution to the college problem, which you ignored. I didn't answer to paying middle school and high school because it's completely irrelevant. The issue is NCAA eligibility. But sure, if young kids want to be ambitious and find a way to earn money for themselves playing ball THEN THEY CAN DO IT - it's a free country. Try to understand my point if possible. I won't hold my breath.
Those comparisons are not irrevelant, and the fact you refuse to answer (dodging questions again...) is a logical fallacy and weakens your argument. It's not like how Hilarly won't answer questions about her emails. Because everyone knows she doesn't want to answer them, no matter how much she tries to convince us those questions were irrelevant to the current election.
It's not moaning to call you out on a BS argument dude. Get off your pedestal. For me to answer a question, you must first ask one. I can't dodge questions that you don't ask. Lmao you're a joke and one of the worst posters I've seen on here.
Welcome to ignore, bum.
Lmao you remind me of zipp. Can't keep up in an argument so you just block and run away. If your reading comprehension was above a 3rd grade level you'd be a lot less confused. Enjoy bud.
Well... the OAD are not going to enroll in college to sit and then go the draft the next year. They're going to pursue professional opportunities overseas, which is not something the NBA wants to see happen.
How does this punish anyone? Eighteen year-old kids get a year to acclimate to one of their biggest life changes without the added responsibility of varsity sport. They're not going to stop playing. Freshmen teams will return and play against each other. Some allowances will need to be made. Coaches have been asking for "five to play five" so you can give it to them... without varsity for the first year. You probably have to allow more scholarships to cover what playing time freshmen would have provided on average, but these can easily be worked out.
In any case, none of this likely comes to pass as the NBA will understand it has to change it's rule. The commissioner is already talking about raising the age limit to 20 which would keep most NBA prospects in college for two years. The teams aren't too keen on this at the moment but may see it as a compromise with which they could live to the current situation. Maybe we even get the "baseball system."
I fail to see how any of this negatively impacts UK. John Calipari is one of the greatest recruiters of his generation. Is that going to change?
The point of all this being that colleges do have something to create leverage with the NBA and they should make a serious threat to use it and follow through if the NBA isn't willing to compromise.
I expect the NCAA is going to crack down even more on the players getting any additional perks from shoe company affiliations in AAU and college. I can see them putting strict limits on the amount of free gear kids get for example.
Got to keep college athletes pure, poor, and grateful for that free room and board. Meanwhile coaches and athletic departments will continue to rake in obscene amounts of money, only a fraction of which the actual academic side of the university actually sees or is used to benefit regular students or lower cost of tuition.
Personally, I'd like to see the NCAA crackdown on practices that allow coaches, athletic directors, university presidents, etc - many of whom are public employees - to become multi-millionaires off of shoe company money or tv contracts, while the schools get nothing. Will never happen though. The people in control of process are the ones getting rich.
University tuition has sky-rocketed over that last 20 years at the same time as the money coming into athletic programs has boomed. Allowing that money to be largely funneled to a handful of individuals to supplement their already inflated salaries does nothing to improve the game.
Got to keep college athletes pure, poor, and grateful for that free room and board. Meanwhile coaches and athletic departments will continue to rake in obscene amounts of money, only a fraction of which the actual academic side of the university actually sees or is used to benefit regular students or lower cost of tuition.
Personally, I'd like to see the NCAA crackdown on practices that allow coaches, athletic directors, university presidents, etc - many of whom are public employees - to become multi-millionaires off of shoe company money or tv contracts, while the schools get nothing. Will never happen though. The people in control of process are the ones getting rich.
University tuition has sky-rocketed over that last 20 years at the same time as the money coming into athletic programs has boomed. Allowing that money to be largely funneled to a handful of individuals to supplement their already inflated salaries does nothing to improve the game.
This would have a terrible impact on UK and Cal. Our entire premise is getting kids to the league as soon as possible. 2nd and 3rd tier kids won't be going that early.
The gap between those elite players at the top is very wide.
The talent gap shrinks the farther down the list you go. #50 is much closer to #100, than #15 is to #1.
No way in hell does Cal revive UK as fast as he did without those superstars.
Why would any UK fan want more talent parity when that has been our ingredient to success?
There will be no more John Wall's or Anthony Davis'... who would ever want this?
Why must college create leverage with the NBA?
Are you even a UK fan, because this is a statement that a UL or IU fan would make regarding how the OAD is ruining college basketball.
I'm all for the 2AD rule without straight to pro option, we would absolutely dominate.
What the NCAA needs to do quite honestly is look at this like the business it is and quit pretending its not about money. Wouldn't it be in the sports best interest if we could keep the talent around as long as possible? Offer a loan program and free personal damage insurance. Not allow players to take out the insurance but pay for it for them. Also alow them to borrow a set amount based off of potential draft stock. More incentives to stay for multiple years. We should be competing with these 2way contracts and stuff the NBA is working out with the g-league.
"Are you even a UK fan, because this is a statement that a UL or IU fan would make regarding how the OAD is ruining college basketball."
No, I am not a Kentucky fan. I lurk here in the off-season from time to time as it's a very active board and you can find some interesting threads if you sift through the fluff.
"This would have a terrible impact on UK and Cal. Our entire premise is getting kids to the league as soon as possible. 2nd and 3rd tier kids won't be going that early."
Kentucky was a premier basketball school prior to John Calipari. He did quite well at UMass and Memphis before coming to UK and perfecting his OAD process. I fail to see why any of that would change.
"No way in hell does Cal revive UK as fast as he did without those superstars."
I think any decent coach could have revived UK pretty quickly. I don't think the program was that far down and you seem to imply the "Kentucky" on the front of the shirt wasn't going to sell itself with any reasonably good coach at the helm.
"Why would any UK fan want more talent parity when that has been our ingredient to success?"
Calipari only accounts for one banner in Lexington. The rest were won under conditions of "talent parity." Again, why would that change?
"There will be no more John Wall's or Anthony Davis'... who would ever want this?"
There will always be more John Walls and Anthony Davises. We will see their like in the players who develop as sophomores and juniors. I believe the quality of play in college basketball will increase despite losing out on a small handful of players each year.
"Why must college create leverage with the NBA?"
College basketball gets nothing from the NBA for being its D League. It exists for its own purposes. Some of it is the sheer arrogance of the league believing the college game will just have to take whatever the NBA decides to give it.
"I'm all for the 2AD rule without straight to pro option, we would absolutely dominate."
I don't think there is any way to know what the effect of this will be. I suspect it's just as likely the best players each year would be hesitant to sit a year at a school which was loaded with the previous year's studs before they get their chance to start. They might be more interested in going to a school where they're going to play for two years rather than one.
No, I am not a Kentucky fan. I lurk here in the off-season from time to time as it's a very active board and you can find some interesting threads if you sift through the fluff.
"This would have a terrible impact on UK and Cal. Our entire premise is getting kids to the league as soon as possible. 2nd and 3rd tier kids won't be going that early."
Kentucky was a premier basketball school prior to John Calipari. He did quite well at UMass and Memphis before coming to UK and perfecting his OAD process. I fail to see why any of that would change.
"No way in hell does Cal revive UK as fast as he did without those superstars."
I think any decent coach could have revived UK pretty quickly. I don't think the program was that far down and you seem to imply the "Kentucky" on the front of the shirt wasn't going to sell itself with any reasonably good coach at the helm.
"Why would any UK fan want more talent parity when that has been our ingredient to success?"
Calipari only accounts for one banner in Lexington. The rest were won under conditions of "talent parity." Again, why would that change?
"There will be no more John Wall's or Anthony Davis'... who would ever want this?"
There will always be more John Walls and Anthony Davises. We will see their like in the players who develop as sophomores and juniors. I believe the quality of play in college basketball will increase despite losing out on a small handful of players each year.
"Why must college create leverage with the NBA?"
College basketball gets nothing from the NBA for being its D League. It exists for its own purposes. Some of it is the sheer arrogance of the league believing the college game will just have to take whatever the NBA decides to give it.
"I'm all for the 2AD rule without straight to pro option, we would absolutely dominate."
I don't think there is any way to know what the effect of this will be. I suspect it's just as likely the best players each year would be hesitant to sit a year at a school which was loaded with the previous year's studs before they get their chance to start. They might be more interested in going to a school where they're going to play for two years rather than one.
I figured you were not a UK fan, because like most of IU's fans you want to change the rules because you cannot compete.
KY has always been a premier school, however, we hadnt sniffed a Final Four since 1998 - not as bad as IU who is losing premier status.
Cal made it to one FF with UMass.
With the OAD Cal made it to one FF with Memphis and to 4 FF's in his first SIX years at UK.
Because you fail to see the obvious is on you.
KY didnt "sell itself" under Tubby, a "decent" coach, nor would any decent coach return us back to the top nearly as fast as Cal and the OAD system.
It is mindnumblingly stupid to think otherwise given the facts.
The other titles were won in different eras, things change. You want parity because your team sucks. I cant help you with that, keep lurking here and root for a winner...that's the only advice I have for you.
John Walls and Anthony Davis are not created in college. You cant teach Walls speed or Davis unreal measurables, and when you add great basketball talent you have an OAD.
To think a 4 star will become a JW or AD is again very dumb but not unexpected by a rival fan. Why didn't Damon Bailey become a John Wall?
The NBA has to deal with itself and it is sheer arrogance to think that an organization must be concerned with a totally separate entity. Just because you feel you are entitled doesnt necessarily mean everyone must accept it.
I definitely know the impact the 2AD would have had on UK.
Multiple titles:
2011
Wall soph
Bledsoe soph
Cousins soph
Miller
(PF open spot) Jones Fr
Lamb questionable
2012
Jones soph
Miller
Lamb -X (Beal/Caldwell-Pope/Wroten/Brown - if no Lamb)
(C open spot) AD
(SF open spot) MKG
(PG open spot) Teague
2013
AD soph
MKG soph
Teague soph
(Beal/Caldwell-Pope/Wroten/Brown - if no Lamb)
Goodwin (if we had Lamb previously)
Poythress
2014
Exact same runner-up team replace Goodwin for Young possibly
2015
Exact same undefeated team, replace Lyles with Randle
2016
Towns soph
Booker soph
Ulis soph
Briscoe
2AD would have been unfair to your team and the rest of college bball the past 8 years.
I'm sorry your team, and thus your message board, are not at a hihger level but enjoy your time here. But dont expect to skate by telling us about our team, this isn't Ga Southern.
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Goodness... so much hostility. You might want to talk to someone about that.
Actually, I find college basketball has become increasingly less interesting to watch. Perhaps that is because of my age... I am old enough to remember when freshmen weren't eligible... and the game has quite naturally changed. While perhaps not true of some fans, my self-esteem is not wrapped up in the performance of 18-20 year old boys who don't even know I exist. All I ask is that a coach run a respectable, clean program and I am content on that point.
"KY has always been a premier school, however, we hadnt sniffed a Final Four since 1998 - not as bad as IU who is losing premier status."
While I would agree Indiana has not performed as an elite program recently, you are forgetting we made the finals in 2002.
"To think a 4 star will become a JW or AD is again very dumb but not unexpected by a rival fan. Why didn't Damon Bailey become a John Wall?"
So you don't know of Russell Westbrook? Scout rated him a 4 star while Rivals and 247 had him as a 3 star. In that case, I'm quite sure you've never heard of Stephen Curry... a 3 star rating from all the services, but of course no one believes the last three MVP's as good as Wall or Davis, right? Scottie Pippen, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and John Stockton are all on the NBA's 50 Greatest Players List but weren't highly recruited. This isn't to claim that 3 and 4 star recruits routinely turn out to be legendary players. 5 star McD AA's will be better in general but to state that a 4 star won't ever become a great player (as you clearly do) is just not a statement you can intelligently defend.
"2AD would have been unfair to your team and the rest of college bball the past 8 years."
You are engaging in a logical fallacy here... though I'm guessing you don't recognize it. You assume you would have gotten the same results (recruits) under a completely different set of circumstances. As I said earlier, there is no way to know what would have happened or what will happen if you move to a 2AD system. I don't know and you don't know, but there is a good possibility top 20-25 players won't go someplace to sit behind the previous year's top 20-25 players to wait their turn. To not acknowledge that is foolish and, well... I can't help you with that problem.
"I'm sorry your team, and thus your message board, are not at a hihger level but enjoy your time here. But dont expect to skate by telling us about our team, this isn't Ga Southern."
Yes, it would have been nice to see Indiana play at a higher level and hopefully Archie Miller will address that, but you really shouldn't worry. I've got a good job, a beautiful wife and great friends. I enjoy my life immensely and the performance of any sports team isn't going to affect that. Also, you seem to confuse comments I made about freshmen eligibility and the NBA rules as being some kind of comment on your team. I fail to see how you arrived at that conclusion, but since you appear to be fueled mostly by your hostility and misguided attempts to not let anyone "skate" rather than actually reading what is written, perhaps that is not surprising. In which case, I'll take leave of this thread and abandon you to your misery.
Actually, I find college basketball has become increasingly less interesting to watch. Perhaps that is because of my age... I am old enough to remember when freshmen weren't eligible... and the game has quite naturally changed. While perhaps not true of some fans, my self-esteem is not wrapped up in the performance of 18-20 year old boys who don't even know I exist. All I ask is that a coach run a respectable, clean program and I am content on that point.
"KY has always been a premier school, however, we hadnt sniffed a Final Four since 1998 - not as bad as IU who is losing premier status."
While I would agree Indiana has not performed as an elite program recently, you are forgetting we made the finals in 2002.
"To think a 4 star will become a JW or AD is again very dumb but not unexpected by a rival fan. Why didn't Damon Bailey become a John Wall?"
So you don't know of Russell Westbrook? Scout rated him a 4 star while Rivals and 247 had him as a 3 star. In that case, I'm quite sure you've never heard of Stephen Curry... a 3 star rating from all the services, but of course no one believes the last three MVP's as good as Wall or Davis, right? Scottie Pippen, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and John Stockton are all on the NBA's 50 Greatest Players List but weren't highly recruited. This isn't to claim that 3 and 4 star recruits routinely turn out to be legendary players. 5 star McD AA's will be better in general but to state that a 4 star won't ever become a great player (as you clearly do) is just not a statement you can intelligently defend.
"2AD would have been unfair to your team and the rest of college bball the past 8 years."
You are engaging in a logical fallacy here... though I'm guessing you don't recognize it. You assume you would have gotten the same results (recruits) under a completely different set of circumstances. As I said earlier, there is no way to know what would have happened or what will happen if you move to a 2AD system. I don't know and you don't know, but there is a good possibility top 20-25 players won't go someplace to sit behind the previous year's top 20-25 players to wait their turn. To not acknowledge that is foolish and, well... I can't help you with that problem.
"I'm sorry your team, and thus your message board, are not at a hihger level but enjoy your time here. But dont expect to skate by telling us about our team, this isn't Ga Southern."
Yes, it would have been nice to see Indiana play at a higher level and hopefully Archie Miller will address that, but you really shouldn't worry. I've got a good job, a beautiful wife and great friends. I enjoy my life immensely and the performance of any sports team isn't going to affect that. Also, you seem to confuse comments I made about freshmen eligibility and the NBA rules as being some kind of comment on your team. I fail to see how you arrived at that conclusion, but since you appear to be fueled mostly by your hostility and misguided attempts to not let anyone "skate" rather than actually reading what is written, perhaps that is not surprising. In which case, I'll take leave of this thread and abandon you to your misery.
I appreciate you leaving, my disgust with the NCAA at this time could only be worsened by debating a Hoosier - a fan base I rank lower than the NCAA itself.
And so you know for future reference... pictures or she isn’t all that. That’s the rule for all of us not just trolls.
BTW, I like Miller and am curious to see how well he does. It’s pretty inexcusable how awful you guys have been. Lets at least agree the NCAA sucks ass.
Emmett...”okay gang, button up these holes now that UNC is grandfathered in”....
AlohaCat
