Matt Jones regarding the NIL at UK.

[Blueworld_3.0]

Why do I have the feeling that MB will resign the JMI contract with no significant changes, right before he retires from UK?
That's exactly how I see things playing out because it would secure his legacy as a great AD. All while the next person who holds the job would have to deal with these same issues, only magnified. And while the football program slips back into complete obscurity.

 

[billoliver40]

Thoughts all over the place on this stuff...so here's a couple more. I'm making assumption there is a contract between JMI and UK in some capacity...and I certainly don't know the particulars. I have read that the UK emblem, mascot or uniform could not be used in NIL deals....so there is that.

Folks keep bringing up the beer sales thing, but that's a truly different kettle. If money frin the beer revenue were coming to UK (or the athletics department) then it cannot be used in any form to pay players....because that would be the school itself paying....which is SUPPOSED to be a major no-no.

This NIL thing is something certain schools are certainly taking advantage of...Louisville, Tennessee, others. Kentucky as of yet either doesn't have those kinds of pockets waiting to contribute or they just don't know how. Likely a combination.

Personally, I always felt the basketball program would be primed to use this, but not football. When you play in the SEC that reverse priority is going to put you in a hole that's difficult to climb out of.

 

[satcheluk]

They're not allowed to use the UK logo in any way shape or form. The coaches are also not allowed to be involved in any rewards for the collective.

This is it. JMI has no control over the players, but they control 100% of the rights to coaches and use of the UK logo. This prevents the players from wearing their jersey to sell photos for example. No one wants to buy a signed photo with a generic blue jersey. Also, other schools' coaches are participating in selling face to face interactions (dinner/party etc) in which the proceeds go to the collective, since the coaches are prohibited from contributing cash directly, but JMI will not release the coaches to do it. BTW, JMI is not restricting coaches at some other schools. Not sure if it contract language or just Mitch.

 

[Fox2monk]

Mitch's latest statements on alcohol sales show just what an elitist snob he really is, and just how out of touch with the regular fan the university is.

Not surprising because most universities are filled with elite snobs who are way out of touch with most normal people.

 

[Fox2monk]

They're not allowed to use the UK logo in any way shape or form. The coaches are also not allowed to be involved in any rewards for the collective.

How much longer is that contract, if I was Cal and Stoops that would be my number one fight right now would be to end that partnership.

 

[satcheluk]

Glad your business is doing well but i'll admit i just don't get the whole sports memorabilia thing.
If you paid Will good, then you must get a good price for the items you sell.
Im a huge fan but autographed pics just doesnt do it for me.
If i met Will out somewhere and got a pic with him i would consider thata "cool" experience but when you have to pay top dollar it just loses its appeal.

And some people don't like ice cream, but I doubt they are confused why an ice cream shop might make money.

 

[Fox2monk]

Glad your business is doing well but i'll admit i just don't get the whole sports memorabilia thing.
If you paid Will good, then you must get a good price for the items you sell.
Im a huge fan but autographed pics just doesnt do it for me.
If i met Will out somewhere and got a pic with him i would consider thata "cool" experience but when you have to pay top dollar it just loses its appeal.

Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean it’s not profitable, look at all the memorabilia that sells yearly for millions.

 

[Fox2monk]

Yet we do have UPS, YUM brands, Lexmark, the Bourbon trail, Toyota and Corvette.

You just ADMITTED that our top15 status is no longer. Wasn’t JMI supposed to RAISE our national brand??? By your OWN admission our support has DECLINED since the JMI deal.

Also a Ford plant here. Two of them actually.

 

[WyleECoyote]

How much longer is that contract, if I was Cal and Stoops that would be my number one fight right now would be to end that partnership.

I think Matt Jones (I don't care people's opinions on him) said 2026.

 

[StubbornPenny]

It's not "THEIR" uniform.

JMI paid a lot of money to the rights to profit off the logos and the uniforms.

Are we going full anarchy now?

Yes they did and they are within their legal right to charge what they want for it.

However, long term, there’s REAL possibly of UK football loses all relevancy and profitability over mismanagement of NIL. Like it or not, that’s reality.

So Freddie Flapkacks can’t use the UK logo. He sells 500 of 1000 limited edition cards to collectors. Joey Jojo from Alabama can use their logo and sells all 1000. The next big transfer is Aaron Aaronson. Where do you think he’ll go?

Did JMI exercise it’s right to restrict or charge top dollar for the UK logo? Yes. Did it hurt the program and therefore the health of JMI’s investment? Also yes.

I get that’s a simplified version but that IS HAPPENING. JMI’s investment in UK will decrease in value, especially on any further contracts if they choose to continue this path.

Contracts are contracts but that doesn’t mean you can’t bend them a little when circumstances have obviously changed and it’s best for both parties.

 

[satcheluk]

Tennessee has the nuclear industry and tourism as a base of revenue. They also dont have income tax. They really do have the money flowing and people want to live there and keep spending their money there.

Had the idiotic war on coal not become a thing, had the gov not allowed harmful additives in cigarettes, and had hemp not been made illegal, I think KY wouldn't be in the condition that it is. Tobacco and coal would still be thriving. Tourism would be up. The land would be used instead of sitting fallow for generations. There would be more jobs and manufacturing taking place here.

We need to clean house in the legislature and get coal and hemp production and hemp-product manufacturing booming. Lower income tax and create an agricultural stimulus for production.

That would boost our NIL ability/status as well.

Tennessee has a 14% higher sales tax which is even higher when you consider an average combined state and local sales tax rate of 9.55 percent. They also have about a 24% higher on average corporate tax rate to make up for their lack of state income tax.

 

[SkyPrince1]

Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean it’s not profitable, look at all the memorabilia that sells yearly for millions.

I

Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean it’s not profitable, look at all the memorabilia that sells yearly for millions.

I get the business and i basically congratulated him.on his but i won't be one of his customers.
And thats ok for him and me.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It was a memorabilia store trying to do a signing with a player or players, and for the player to be in uniform JMI wanted a quarter mil for a small shop. They wanted more money than the business and player combined were going to take in.

Did JMI purchase the rights to market the logos? If so, I am having a problem understating why JMI would relinquish that right to have competitive merchandise marketed. If someone is going to sell a shirt that will compete with a shirt JMI has produced or contracted, JMI probably wants to make its profit and show its other contracts that it is dealing fairly.

This discussion with part facts, part innuendo, part rumor, and part biased supposition is meaningless. Have fun.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

I just wanted to drop by this thread and say, I met Mitch couple of times. Guy is a complete tool. Just had a terrible arrogance about him.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

JMI also has deals with other schools such as Notre Dame, UGA, PITT, Clemson. I wonder if they are having the same issues

UGA isn't doing much as far as getting players to come, it is pushing the NIL for current players. To get kids to come Kirby is selling player development, getting drafted and playing for championships. When our recruiting starts to drop off I guess things will have to change. ATM is going to have some transfers from their 22 class, unless things change we aren't going to go after any of them.

 

[3632]

This just isn’t true. Kentucky is almost always in the Top 15-20 of highest revenue producing programs in the country.

Because we are in the SEC and get that revenue share. We are 9th in the conference. I think his point is that NIL money has to come outside of that normal machinery. In that case, it's likely going to be some challenge for us.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Is there a significant difference to the company if will Levis appears as "UK QB will Levis" vs "will Levis QB"?

Because the latter example is literally all it would take to get around it. Imo it's 0 difference because anyone in the target audience already knows who he is

Pro athletes sometimes wear jerseys in commercials that only vaguely resemble their NFL jersey. Will could wear a blue jersey in the photo. Plus, again, unless Morgan and Morgan has paid that price, I believe the players on their billboard are wearing jerseys.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yet we do have UPS, YUM brands, Lexmark, the Bourbon trail, Toyota and Corvette.

You just ADMITTED that our top15 status is no longer. Wasn’t JMI supposed to RAISE our national brand??? By your OWN admission our support has DECLINED since the JMI deal.

How are the basketball players making bank if this is such a big deal?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

If they use the school's logo, it's not NIL. It's a basic and simple premise.

A school logo has nothing to do with an athlete's name, image, or likeness. If they include the logo, the school is participating and it's no longer the athlete's NIL. If the coaches participate, or the school logo is used, then they are involved in the process and there is no "arms length" transaction.

NIL is specifically about a person's image. If they need the school logo to be worth $__, then the person's image is not what has that value. If they have to go to ____ school to play ___ to be sponsored by Jane Doe Foods, then it's not the athlete they want to to sponsor. It's just a back door to pay athlete's to play for the school they prefer them to play for.

No one wants to use reason, and I get why. Other people are breaking the rules and will be rewarded for it. I wonder how many people now will just go steal from their neighbor when the penalties for such are not being enforced on most criminals...

It's THE EXACT same reasoning.

That's why I'm opting out. Putting money into a collective is not purchasing NIL rights for my business. Paying a person for NIL if they go to ____ is not NIL. It's simply letting someone watch you hand them a bag of money with a logo on it. Giving money to a UK sponsored or set up NIL portal is not NIL. The whole thing is a joke.

True but irrelevant. We either play the game or get left way behind.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Everyone here who throws up your hands saying "oh well, thats the JMI contract, nothin we can do" has the same loser mentality, afraid to push the envelope mentality as Barnhart

This is why we need new vision for this new age of college sports. Mitch is stuck in 20th century mindset, where NCAA is king and you don't even HINT that you are getting near the guardrails. Today is owned by those who have the stones to let others spend. Aint no rules to follow much less be afraid of breaking!

We need an alpha dog as AD who drags JMI in and says:
" our players are getting NIL deals, and they are gonna wear UK gear head to toe if they want too. And you ain't getting in the way. AT ALL. know why? This gets us better talent. And that gets us better teams. And that gets us more fans invested. And that gets more fans buyimg gear, listening to the pre and post-game shows, coaches shows, press conferences - WHERE YOU MAKE YOUR MONEY! Or, you can keep kneecapping us, our talent suffers, our teams suffer, no one buys even a key chain, no one watches or listens to shows, and you lose money on this contract. So, you want to make ALOT of money, or lose ALOT of money? Choice is yours."

Or they know what happens when a business breaches a big contract.

 

[bpfree]

If they use the school's logo, it's not NIL. It's a basic and simple premise.

A school logo has nothing to do with an athlete's name, image, or likeness. If they include the logo, the school is participating and it's no longer the athlete's NIL. If the coaches participate, or the school logo is used, then they are involved in the process and there is no "arms length" transaction.

This is actually wrong as well. JMI wants $150k for companies to use players in their uniform for NIL. That price doesn't exist if it breaks the rules in any way.

 

[rqarnold]

If they use the school's logo, it's not NIL. It's a basic and simple premise.

A school logo has nothing to do with an athlete's name, image, or likeness. If they include the logo, the school is participating and it's no longer the athlete's NIL. If the coaches participate, or the school logo is used, then they are involved in the process and there is no "arms length" transaction.

NIL is specifically about a person's image. If they need the school logo to be worth $__, then the person's image is not what has that value. If they have to go to ____ school to play ___ to be sponsored by Jane Doe Foods, then it's not the athlete they want to to sponsor. It's just a back door to pay athlete's to play for the school they prefer them to play for.

No one wants to use reason, and I get why. Other people are breaking the rules and will be rewarded for it. I wonder how many people now will just go steal from their neighbor when the penalties for such are not being enforced on most criminals...

It's THE EXACT same reasoning.

That's why I'm opting out. Putting money into a collective is not purchasing NIL rights for my business. Paying a person for NIL if they go to ____ is not NIL. It's simply letting someone watch you hand them a bag of money with a logo on it. Giving money to a UK sponsored or set up NIL portal is not NIL. The whole thing is a joke.

From a business perspective few if any NIL deals will ever add to the bottom line. It is a way for a booster to funnel money to athletes and hopefully improve the team they favor. One must also remember that schools fought against NIL and it was SCOTUS that forced it upon colleges.

While what you say is technically true with regards to school logo/NIL, if school A allows their athletes to use their logo and school B does not then school B athletes will be at a competitive disadvantage with regards to NIL precisely because their NIL is more valuable at school A.

While everyone bitches about the NCAA their rules exist to try and even the playing field as much as possible.

Lastly, and I had this same discussion with someone else…it doesn’t really matter what you think NIL is or should be…it only matters what it is as it exists. The genie is out of the bottle and there’s no putting it back.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Thoughts all over the place on this stuff...so here's a couple more. I'm making assumption there is a contract between JMI and UK in some capacity...and I certainly don't know the particulars. I have read that the UK emblem, mascot or uniform could not be used in NIL deals....so there is that.

Folks keep bringing up the beer sales thing, but that's a truly different kettle. If money frin the beer revenue were coming to UK (or the athletics department) then it cannot be used in any form to pay players....because that would be the school itself paying....which is SUPPOSED to be a major no-no.

This NIL thing is something certain schools are certainly taking advantage of...Louisville, Tennessee, others. Kentucky as of yet either doesn't have those kinds of pockets waiting to contribute or they just don't know how. Likely a combination.

Personally, I always felt the basketball program would be primed to use this, but not football. When you play in the SEC that reverse priority is going to put you in a hole that's difficult to climb out of.

A few months ago, I posted, in part jest, that UK should give a beer deal to a UK athletic union so they could contract with distributors to offer beer at games and the union would get the profits, after paying a fee for overhead. It’s as much NIL as the pay to play others are hoping for.

 

[bradyjames]

From a business perspective few if any NIL deals will ever add to the bottom line. It is a way for a booster to funnel money to athletes and hopefully improve the team they favor. One must also remember that schools fought against NIL and it was SCOTUS that forced it upon colleges.

While what you say is technically true with regards to school logo/NIL, if school A allows their athletes to use their logo and school B does not then school B athletes will be at a competitive disadvantage with regards to NIL precisely because their NIL is more valuable at school A.

While everyone bitches about the NCAA their rules exist to try and even the playing field as much as possible.

Lastly, and I had this same discussion with someone else…it doesn’t really matter what you think NIL is or should be…it only matters what it is as it exists. The genie is out of the bottle and there’s no putting it back.

Dude, you don’t even pay your bets.

 

[JHB4UK]

Because we are in the SEC and get that revenue share. We are 9th in the conference. I think his point is that NIL money has to come outside of that normal machinery. In that case, it's likely going to be some challenge for us.

UK revenue is drained MUCH MUCH MUCH more dramatically by our basketball program unlike the rest of the SEC. Plus we play more varsity sports than I think anyone in the conference.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I just wanted to drop by this thread and say, I met Mitch couple of times. Guy is a complete tool. Just had a terrible arrogance about him.

I met him once in a stairwell going to a coaches’ luncheon. Seemed down to earth that day, but admitted the thing was not his gig. It would not be my gig if I was AD, either.

 

[Cobb4uk]

Eh just his attitude about it goes hand in hand with his views on NIL. He's an elitist snob and anything he doesn't personally like he fights tooth and nail.

I could care less one way or the other about selling adult beverages at KY football games. Although I know several season ticket holders and others that attend games regularly that don't like the idea of of beer being sold at games. I think incidents involving unruly inebriated individuals at games are greatly exaggerated. People have a tendency to tell everyone, they know, when something happen they don't like but seldom mention good things happening. IMO, and I very well could be wrong, Mitch Barnhart isn't, the buck stops here, only one making decisions. Although I do think his stance has a major influence.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

From a business perspective few if any NIL deals will ever add to the bottom line. It is a way for a booster to funnel money to athletes and hopefully improve the team they favor. One must also remember that schools fought against NIL and it was SCOTUS that forced it upon colleges.

While what you say is technically true with regards to school logo/NIL, if school A allows their athletes to use their logo and school B does not then school B athletes will be at a competitive disadvantage with regards to NIL precisely because their NIL is more valuable at school A.

While everyone bitches about the NCAA their rules exist to try and even the playing field as much as possible.

Lastly, and I had this same discussion with someone else…it doesn’t really matter what you think NIL is or should be…it only matters what it is as it exists. The genie is out of the bottle and there’s no putting it back.

SCOTUS only reviewed the NCAA rules restricting education based benefits and the injunction issued by the trial court. It was Kavanaugh’s dissent that signaled to the NCAA, as he intended, that compensation beyond education-based-related benefits that were not before the Court, those that restrict students from endorsement deals “and the like,” were also suspect. It appears that the NCAA’s response to that concurring opinion, to which no other Justice joined, incited the NCAA to blow the whole house down. Rather than create rules to permit players to get endorsement deals or the like, it has created the mess we now have. Whether the SCOTUS would have followed Kavanaugh’s lead in a not known.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

UK revenue is drained MUCH MUCH MUCH more dramatically by our basketball program unlike the rest of the SEC. Plus we play more varsity sports than I think anyone in the conference.

I think UK’s basketball program hs traditionally been one of the rare programs that makes a profit.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I could care less one way or the other about selling adult beverages at KY football games. Although I know several season ticket holders and others that attend games regularly that don't like the idea of of beer being sold at games. I think incidents involving unruly inebriated individuals at games are greatly exaggerated. People have a tendency to tell everyone, they know, when something happen they don't like but seldom mention good things happening. IMO, and I very well could be wrong, Mitch Barnhart isn't, the buck stops here, only one making decisions. Although I do think his stance has a major influence.

The worst experiences I have had at sporting events always included some dumb drunk fan.

 

[Bluesnky]

The worst experiences I have had at sporting events always included some dumb drunk fan.

Mine always involve some dumb drunk referees.

 

[rqarnold]

Yet we do have UPS, YUM brands, Lexmark, the Bourbon trail, Toyota and Corvette.

You just ADMITTED that our top15 status is no longer. Wasn’t JMI supposed to RAISE our national brand??? By your OWN admission our support has DECLINED since the JMI deal.

UPS has a logistics hub in Louisville, they are headquartered in Atlanta. Toyota has a plant in Georgetown, they are headquartered in Japan, Corvette is a GM plant in Bowling Green, headquartered in Detroit. Yum is the only one headquartered in Ky unless you want to count the Bourbon Trail which is a tourist attraction/concoction. My question would be what does supporting NIL do for any of those brands? Toyota and Lexmark partner with UK’s engineering programs which makes sense. You might get some of those to sponsor or buy advertising which they do but that’s about it.

SCOTUS only reviewed the NCAA rules restricting education based benefits and the injunction issued by the trial court. It was Kavanaugh’s dissent that signaled to the NCAA, as he intended, that compensation beyond education-based-related benefits that were not before the Court, those that restrict students from endorsement deals “and the like,” were also suspect. It appears that the NCAA’s response to that concurring opinion, to which no other Justice joined, incited the NCAA to blow the whole house down. Rather than create rules to permit players to get endorsement deals or the like, it has created the mess we now have. Whether the SCOTUS would have followed Kavanaugh’s lead in a not known.

SCOTUS rules 9-0 the NCAA couldn’t restrict athletes ability to earn money from their NIL. 9-0 rarely happens. The only restrictions the NCAA could impose are on its own members…the schools.
If Joe fan wants to pay Bobby QB, they can’t stop it. Once that is true, and it is now true you’re really powerless to stop it.
Not sure what you think they could do that would change the current situation?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

This is it. JMI has no control over the players, but they control 100% of the rights to coaches and use of the UK logo. This prevents the players from wearing their jersey to sell photos for example. No one wants to buy a signed photo with a generic blue jersey. Also, other schools' coaches are participating in selling face to face interactions (dinner/party etc) in which the proceeds go to the collective, since the coaches are prohibited from contributing cash directly, but JMI will not release the coaches to do it. BTW, JMI is not restricting coaches at some other schools. Not sure if it contract language or just Mitch.

It doesn't prevent any of that. If someone wants to pay the price, they can use all those things.

People all over the country buy things from athletes without their team name etc. Nearly every single endorsement in this country uses a generic jersey for that exact reason.

What really needs to happen is Mitch court the deep pockets like other schools' ads

 

[Jayintoledo]

Dude, you don’t even pay your bets.

Man you have a great memory.. that was like 8 yrs ago wasn't it, along with him having another screen name..

 

[bigblueinsanity]

UK revenue is drained MUCH MUCH MUCH more dramatically by our basketball program unlike the rest of the SEC. Plus we play more varsity sports than I think anyone in the conference.

Isnt there also some weird situation where athletics has to provide any profit to the school? Sounds like a bunch of institutional changes need made

 

[YaketySax]

Settle in

“In 2015 the University of Kentucky entered a 15-year, $210 million agreement with JMI Sports, an innovator in sales, marketing, and project management services to universities and professional teams.”

JMI Partnership | EVPFA

evpfa.uky.edu

 

[Cefiro]

The JMI thing is just a scapegoat for Mitch. If he wanted to make NIL work he needs to grow some balls and work with JMI to make it happen. He doesn’t want any of this stuff and he’s using any excuse he can come up with.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Pro athletes sometimes wear jerseys in commercials that only vaguely resemble their NFL jersey. Will could wear a blue jersey in the photo. Plus, again, unless Morgan and Morgan has paid that price, I believe the players on their billboard are wearing jerseys.

Right. It's always enough that any target audience can clearly make the connection but not enough to trigger licensing fees.

UK historically aggressive in protection of their brand. They send cease and desist letters to anyone pairing blue and the word "Kentucky" together. Maybe this is part of the issue? If so, it isn't mentioned. This definitely needs to chill though

 

[backinky2018]

No. Wtf...

JMI hasn't done anything to hurt our revenue or footprint. IT HAS increased our footprint and enforcement of logo rights nationwide.

The plain fact is that our revenue is more fixed than that of other schools.

-We have the smallest fanbase in the SEC for the highest revenue sport - football.
-We have one of the smallest football stadiums in the SEC.
-This state has one of the lowest GDPs in the SEC and country and splits that revenue source with UL, WKU, EKU, and other schools.
-KY state revenue is shrinking compared to the growth of other states.
-We don't have a high state population or brands like NIKE, Gatorade, or Ford that have their headquarters here.

Is this really that hard to understand?

We don't have the smallest football fanbase In the SEC. I would argue that VANDY, Mizzou, Miss state, and Ole Miss all smaller. I would also argue that our fanbase is of similar size to USC, arky (though Arky has some very high dollar donors with the Walton family, Tyson foods, Jerry Jones, etc).

We don't have the advantages of some of the other schools (Georgia, Florida, LSU, A&M), but we're not in dire straits. It is true, however, that we need to better manage NIL and have universal buy in from fans, AD, and school admin if we want to be competitive in football going forward.

 

[Basil Cat]

Keep in mind, Matt Jones harping on this issue and attacking JMI might be because he is trying to get his new friends at On3 to replace them....don't assume he is being completely truthful about his motivations

Hope everyone makes note of this. More will come to light in the future.