Marvin Bagley III, the country's No. 1 basketball recruit, could skip senior year to play for Duke o
- Thread starter HICATFAN
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USC becomes a legit FF contender with Bagley. Wouldn't be a bad team for him to join. Just don't see him as a Duke kind of player.
It's not so much that I believe it can't be done without those type players. I think North Carolina and Villanova have proved that of recent. I just believe that built into the structure of Cal's philosophy is an understanding that your chances are greatly increased with those guys, moreso than any other program. Mainly because of one factor, youth. We've got nothing to offset a #18 recruit that doesn't pan out.
So to me it's simple. We need a D. Rose, Wall, Davis, Counsins, Kat, type of guy if we aren't going to have a Miller, Jones, Lamb, or liggins to pick up the slack.
Also, I'm glad you brought up 2011. Had Harresslon have left for European ball in 2010, it doesn't happen.Brandon knight was also a top 5, maybe 6 RCIi? Not to mention Liggins, a return upperclassman. I think it goes to aid my point.
It looks like this year Washington and Vanderbilt could be top 5 guys, although in this class we'll have to see how much that matters.
At least this thread hasn't turned into " faar cal he caint rucroot" sarcasm and strawman.
OMG...All of you posters please line up and get your "I fear Duke inoculations" before idiot Jerry Meyer posts any more about any recruit..What is wrong with you people..If someone posted Satan was leaning to Duke, ( get it? ) you people would be terrified..Cal hasn't done too shabbily in recruiting since he has been here, why don't you wait and see how this plays out before you turn your little girl panties into a big wad..You people are ridiculous..Gracious.
Think about how rare that 2012 team was, even for Calipari.
First of all it had a senior that could really play in Miller. These players are very rare if not non-existent during the Cal era. My theory is that the only players to make it to junior/senior years are either A). KY kids, B). Players that missed time due to injury, or C). Walk-ons. It is very rare for Cal to have seniors as good as Miller.
Secondly, Cal had a couple of star sophomores in Jones and Lamb. Any other year and those guys are likely one and done, but because of a looming NBA lockout they decided to stay. Especially in the case of Jones; with no impending lockout there's no way Cal allows him to stay.
Third, you had a big, slow, pure shooter in Kyle Wiltjer. Cal got his commitment basically sight unseen. He makes at least one three in 5 out of the 6 tournament games. Cal simply doesn't recruit players like him (slow, un-athletic, just a shooter).
Lastly, the team had the number one and number two picks in the draft. One of which was a truly transcendent player.
If that's the recipe it takes for Cal to win titles then yes we had better temper expectations big time, because that team simply goes beyond his demonstrated methods of building a team.
This is another excellent post. I might be one of the only posters that agrees with you completely. And your right, this viewpoint is usually met with defensive combativeness and accusations of hating Cal or not being a fan.
You nailed what the recipe is. My opinion is that the title can't be won without contribution from an upperclassmen. This really can't be debated based on history. It's never been done. Every team that has won the title did so with contribution from an upperclassmen.
I love and agree with your other point in that if you don't have that upperclassmen contributor, you better have a couple of top 5 freshmen (transcendent stars if possible).
Now to my worry for UK; my fear is that Cal has built a culture where you won't see a quality upperclassmen contributor unless they are A). A KY kid (Miller, Willis, Hawkins)......B). Missed significant time due to injury (Poythress, WCS)......or C). A walk-on.
I think Briscoe and Humphries are evidence of my theory as they both chose to take their chances at the pros (with no guarantees of being drafted) as opposed to returning. Why? Well what good would it do them? They're going to be recruited over and their minutes are going to be used on incoming freshmen.
To my knowledge, there's never been a team without upperclassmen to play in the NCAA tournament. So your point is so obvious to cross over into absurdity.
You need to also point out how Cal almost let Kansas catch up, and how Kendall Marshall was injured.
Quite a pity you couldn't get any traction on your Cal pushed Bam out the door theme, following the Diallo situation blowing up in your face.
You don't have anyone fooled, no matter how you are trying to adjust your tone.
I'm disappointed I was only able to 'like' this post once.
No, but ESPN will put them #1 citing how they have "4 of the top 10 players in the class" (They don't. Trent Jr. is not a top 10 player, and Duval is very talented but doesn't seem to produce to his ranking), question if it's the greatest recruiting class of all time, and say that Duke next year is going to be more dominant than 2015 Kentucky.
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anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
Guest
Good Lord dude, shut it. Look at the 2014 team that made it to the Final game against UCONN. Every starter was a FRESHMAN. And don't give me the " we didn't win it all" crap either. That game was there for the taking. We missed 11 free throws and lost by 6. You don't know jack squat about what you're talking about and your act is way past getting old.
I think his username already gives some insight into what he's thinking about
I've pointed this out before, but his posts indicate that he is actually a Duke fan, who is posing as a UNC fan. Not sure why he come to our board to do it, but oh well.
I see y'all trolling in mama's basement. Thug life.
I think you missed where I said "contribution". By contribution I mean quality minutes in the games.
So that team that every starter was a freshmen lost because of free throws correct? Could nerves have played a part in a team full of freshmen missing so many free throws? Does having a veteran player that's been through the grind help with that?
You're basically making my point for me. "Yeah we had a team full of freshmen almost win it (emphasis on "almost") had it not been for a bunch of missed free throws". Well hell yeah they missed a bunch of free throws. They're all freshmen. Good grief.
We do not have one reliable big guy on the roster. How are we crowded again?
I'm certain not a single player on that roster would be disappointed to see him commit to UK
I'm certain not a single player on that roster would be disappointed to see him commit to UK
If he does go to Duke, I expect Duke to be No. 1 to start the season, but I don't think they'll win it all. They'll still be young (one of K's youngest teams), will need to work on defense, deal with egos (see Allen), will lack quality depth (Duval is it at PG), and will have to deal with all the pressures of being the favorite.
Hey moron, that Kansas team that lost to freshman Carmelo for the title was heavy with JR and senior players, didn't they miss like 20 free throws in that game?
So, wait, a junior and senior can miss free throws also in crunch time???
Well there goes your theory.
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anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
Guest
So you're saying that having veteran players helps make free throws? Do you have any sort of data to back that up or are you just talking out of your ass? no way a senior playing in the National Championship game could have any nerves right?
Bagley > USC
OJ Mayo > USC
Different position but it greatly backfired on Mayo. He was supposedly the "next thing".
OJ Mayo > USC
Different position but it greatly backfired on Mayo. He was supposedly the "next thing".
What's it going to take to ban horrible posters like Cut-Nets reincarnated and the Duke/Carolina troll?
Educate yourself on UK before posting. Didnt make sense for Kat to join Dakari Johnson and WCS but he did then became the number one draft choice. Doesn't make sense for him to go to duke. He is not that hybrid 3/4 u guys get drafted around 3 every season. He is a proto typical Cal big. Why would you go to Duke where guarantee number one picks go to die. Whose coach is bashing the one and done rule. Bagley plays ahead of everyone no matter where he goes he has no competition. Ur roster doesn't matter our roster doesn't matter being comfortable with the coach and being most prepared for the NBA matters. The NBA guys have said no one does that like Cal.
Seems to me the least amount of pressure to do that is at UK. He won't have to play 35 min a game. Best team USC has fielded for a while. Add Bagley and you dont think there will be pressure at USC. Making a statement about getting to the pros quickest. That will happen at the same time no matter what school he goes to. He will be number one. He is eligible for the 18 draft no matter what. Easiest thing to do is play HS ball and dominate one more season. No the very fact he is thinking about reclassifying means he wants to be more prepared. Best place for that is UK.
So WCS being hurt and horrible officiating didn't have nothing to do with it? Just starting Fresh? Lmao
My assumption is that a battle-tested senior shooting free throws in a critical, pressured-packed game or situation isn't going to have near the nerves that a freshmen would have in the same situation. I mean damn, is that really a stretch?
But nevermind. It seems the board has spoken and contribution from an upperclassmen isn't necessary at all in order to win a title. Even though there's never been a team win it with 100% underclassmen.
This discussion started when a previous poster discussed that if you don't have that solid upperclassmen contribution that you better offset it with a superstar or two freshmen (1-5 guys). That poster's theory was that a team made up of majority freshmen, all ranked somewhere between 7-30 probably can't win the title. That poster was saying that if that team had a quality upperclassmen or two that it could win it. But without, you better have a superstar freshmen or two. I think there's merit to that point. However, I maintain that you must have the CONTRIBUTION (@Aike) of an upper classmen to win it.
Why is that such an offensive opinion? Oh that's right, because Cal doesn't promote that culture therefore we better pounce on this theory to protect ourselves from reality.
"Didn't have nothing to do with it". Hmmm hard to understand what you are asking
No its not. U stated freshman missing free throws. We all no WCS doesn't get hurt and we get a fair whistle we win the title freshman didnt have anything to do with it. That group of freshmen in particular had ice water in their veins.
You're missing the point. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk.
I'm not saying that freshmen are costing us titles. I'm not saying that freshmen are making mistakes and therefore losing championships. I'm saying that they need more help. I'm not saying throw out recruiting the top high school players. I'm not saying abandon the one and done. I'm saying you need it AND contribution from a veteran player.
Bagley needs to ask Bolden how Duke is working out for him.
