Touché. Seriously. Bird took a mascot called the Sycamores to the title game against MSU.Agree to disagree.
Happy Birthday Larry Bird...the GOAT imo.
- Thread starter Chuckinden
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If you honestly think Larry Bird is a better player than Lebron, you have an agenda for whatever reason and dislike Lebron. (Larry Bird doesn’t even believe he’s better than Lebron).
If you believe Larry Bird has a better basketball iq than Lebron James, you either don’t understand basketball or there’s a high chance you might be a bigot.
FWIW KD will also surpass Larry Bird sooner rather than later.
If you believe Larry Bird has a better basketball iq than Lebron James, you either don’t understand basketball or there’s a high chance you might be a bigot.
FWIW KD will also surpass Larry Bird sooner rather than later.
This one was better
They're career statistics, what does one being in his prime have to do with anything?
I just had to lol at even the notion of the term GOAT and Bird being tossed around in the same sentence. It is isn't even argueable. If you want to debate who is the greatest player ever between Jordan and Lebron that is a totally fair thing to do but Bird is somewhere between 5-15 on the all time list. Not GOAT status at all and any NBA player or coach would say the same thing.
Lol. LeBron would prob dominate more now than then. Too athletic, too big
This is what I say every time there is a thread about Issel on here. There is always somebody that says Issel couldn't score on today's players because they are way more athletic. And then I point out that Dr. J and Connie Hawkins were just as athletic as today's players and he scored a ton on them too. The bottom line is the elite players from any era could play today and be great players.
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Bird was a garbage man for a year. He rode on the back of the truck. Picked up cans and lifted and threw them into the truck. The point being he had the strongest wrists of about any player. He had a BB IQ off the charts. Shooter and passer he was maybe the top in each.
6 titles and 6 MVPs in 6 championship series and he didn't need to join 2 of his buddy star players to win. MJ won 3 championships with Luc Longley at center, let that sink in for a moment. Michael prevented HOFers like Patrick Ewing, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and John Stockton from winning championships. There is no greater player because he combines the best of everything--he is one of the greatest winners of all-time, one of the greatest competitors of all-time, one of the greatest offensive players of all-time and one of the greatest defensive players of all time. There is no comparison.
As for Larry Bird, I was a Bulls and Lakers fan so he was not my favorite but the guy could play. He is a top 10 player but I don't think top 5.
As for Larry Bird, I was a Bulls and Lakers fan so he was not my favorite but the guy could play. He is a top 10 player but I don't think top 5.
wow some folks are absolutely HATE-filled over the thought that Bird may not be the best of all time......gotta wonder why all the hate
I don't think Larry or Lebron are the goat. Meaning the greatest of all time. Only one player can be that.
If I had to compare them however, as so many here are doing, I'd say this: they are very close in ranking, both in or close to the top five, had great stats but very different games and abilities. However, Larry was 97% about the game/3% ego and Lebron is 75% or less about the game and the rest about himself. Call it a sign of the times but it's still a glaring difference between the two.
It's hard to say who the real all-time goat is but in my book it's between Wilt and MJ. There is a big logjam below that.
If I had to compare them however, as so many here are doing, I'd say this: they are very close in ranking, both in or close to the top five, had great stats but very different games and abilities. However, Larry was 97% about the game/3% ego and Lebron is 75% or less about the game and the rest about himself. Call it a sign of the times but it's still a glaring difference between the two.
It's hard to say who the real all-time goat is but in my book it's between Wilt and MJ. There is a big logjam below that.
I would love to know how you came up with those percentages. It's really an idiotic thing to say honestly. You can't dominate in the NBA for 15 straight seasons the way LeBron has and say he cared less about the game than anyone. And then you try to get Larry Bird as close to 100% as you could and then gave LeBron some random 75% figure lol. What a joke.
Ok, let me clarify. It's more about how they conduct themselves, not how much they care. The difference is stark.
My my you are being very testy, indeed.
Not being testy, just shocked at the amount of absurdity that most of you are typing. And what do you mean how they conduct themselves? You are comparing eras 30 years apart my man.
Lebron loves the camera, loves the attention, loves his image. It would be hard to deny that.
The NBA has refined its image-making machine to an absurd level for sure and deserves much of the blame. So do the fans for eating it up. However, it hasn't transformed all of today's stars like it has Lebron and some others at the top.
Larry played like no one was watching.
Because no one was watching Larry Bird and those guys in those days lol what are you saying? The NBA was an infant compared to what it is now. Again, you're comparing eras 30 plus years apart. It's a silly argument. You're mad because he loves the camera, his image, and himself lol unreal.
Lived in Chicago during the 80s and loved Magic Johnson so that is why I liked both teams. I barely watch the NBA now as I can't stand that everyone is trying to emulate GSW and shoot 50 3s a game.
I saw them both in their primes and what is foolish is to pretend it is foolish to put Jordan (at least) in the same conversation as Bird.
A lot of very knowledgeable folks will say the same, some who won't even agree Bird is the greatest Celtic. Plenty more who may believe Bird never or only briefly was the best player in the league during his career.
I'm not stating either definitively but yes reasonable and knowledgeable minds can and did even contemporaneously debate those sort of assertions.
I'm comfortable that there is legitimate room to argue Bird isn't the greatest of all time. In fact, I'm pretty certain it was never a minority opinion. Whether it was Kareem, Dr. J, Magic, or later Jordan there was always a a legitimate debate about who the best player at the time was and that's without going back to Wilt, Russell, Oscar Robinson, and the like.
Don't pretend there weren't old timer Celtic fans that would be quick (even too quick) to call you crazy when Bird was in his prime if you made this claim that he was the greatest of all time.
Your basic opinion isn't unreasonable just your declaring there can be no debate when no matter who you poll be it sports writers, coaches, fans, or other players you are likely to be in the distinct minority.
I think virtually anyone would place Bird in the top dozen all time but my stab in the dark guess is 10% or less would say #1 and decently less than half would say top 5.
There can be solid arguments for Bird but none so good to justify calling someone stupid for disagreeing with your position.
I tell you I do think Bird would have a big problem playing now, not that he couldn't play but I do think he'd break down even quicker unless he got with the Tom Brady diet, lifestyle, and training program quick, fast, and in a hurry. Almost no way he plays the 3 anymore either.
No matter how phenomenal your anticipation there is a price to be paid for lack of speed in sports eventually.
I certainly think the superior case is he got more out of his natural abilities than anyone though I have a tough time saying Jordan didn't also even considering how damn much God given talent he had.
Bird really did squeeze a nickel for three dimes though athletically but I've also heard (I don't know if it is true) that he has either a photographic or even an eidetic memory which I'd trade for some vertical or whatever anytime. That is a awesome gift as well if true.
My opinion is one is absolutely grading on some kind of curve to declare Bird the top player in history by such a margin that someone arguing otherwise is stupid.
Nostalgia goggles??? Fan favoritism? Insecure in one's brash opinion but double down rather than back down syndrome?
Again not so much the premise (though I'll raise a brow just a tiny bit) but the vehemence.
The fact that he's carried all those teams to the finals, even in the East, speaks volumes for his greatness. No other player besides Jordan could've done that as many times as he has. But bball is a team game and when you run up against great teams like he has in the Finals, no one player can win. Not even Jordan. Him moving teams has ZERO to do with anything. Give him teams that the others on that list played with and you better believe he has a lot more than 3 titles
Nope he's a whiny loser. Will be in LA or Boston or next year. Don't care what you think.
Looked like a whiny loser tonight. While you were busy hating on a message board he was dropping 43, 8, and 14 in the road to go up 2-0 on the 1 seed.
Your.a fool if you thought the raptors we're a legit 1 seed.
He is a whiny loser. Just wait till he gets destroyed by Houston or golden state
More power to you if you believe that. Boston healthy was the clear best team in East. Raptors are choke artist every year.
Yea I've seen him pass, yet another thing Lebron does better than Bird.
But if Bird is in the conversation for top 5, and he is, it wasn’t because of his athleticism, body, or physical gifts. What was it?
I don’t want to make this a thing about IQ, I know where that conversation will lead and I want none of it. But I think a few points are important here. Bird elevated himself somehow, without the gifts those guys had. You might be right, maybe he wasn’t smarter than Jordan, but then again maybe he was. I think there’s plenty there to suggest he might be, and there’s nothing wrong with that, as Jordan had one of the highest on court IQ’s to ever play. But between them someone was smarter, I highly doubt it’s exactly equal; and I can point to many physical gifts as the reason for Jordan. Can’t do that for Bird.
Why is it guys my age and below always throw out the argument that older people think their generation is the best at something because they’re nostalgic, then turn around and proclaim our generation is the best because? What?
I’ve got news for everyone, a lot of the time those generations were better.
Cars were made better.
The greatest generation was better than any generation you can name.
Tobacco was better.
Coca Cola was definitely better.
What wasn’t better?
Forgive me, I’ll take the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s , players in the NBA all day long over the “freedom of movement” generations.
Every. Day. Of. The. Week.
No hesitation.
I’ve got news for everyone, a lot of the time those generations were better.
Cars were made better.
The greatest generation was better than any generation you can name.
Tobacco was better.
Coca Cola was definitely better.
What wasn’t better?
Forgive me, I’ll take the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s , players in the NBA all day long over the “freedom of movement” generations.
Every. Day. Of. The. Week.
No hesitation.
Not necessarily signing up for your whole list. But Jordan is definitely number one. Not really close.
Bird was great. Most likely top 5-6 greatest ever. Nothing wrong with that. But he wasn't a top 3 greatest ever.
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