Happy Birthday Larry Bird...the GOAT imo.
- Thread starter Chuckinden
- Start date
You can be in the same conversation without being as good. I would argue those guys had equal basketball IQ's and better natural physical gifts, so they're better players.
You won't catch me arguing that Larry Bird lacked smarts or skills. I just think we overly romanticize his at the sake of other guys in the same way we give Tyler Ulis too much credit for being short and great.
Not really sure how career statistics are "BS numbers". Injuries are a factor of the game. The fact that LeBron has been fortunate enough to be on the court the vast majority of his career doesn't "bs" his stats compared to Larry who put up excellent numbers, won more titles and unfortunately had to battle injuries. LeBron's numbers will eventually start to decrease when he is in the last few years of his career but he won't ever fall off completely. What is it that you were trying to say here? The thread started as an acknowledgement to Larry Bird on his birthday, but the OP included that he believes Larry is GOAT. Then a debate started. That's usually what happens on message boards.
Larry Legend at his peak was as great as anyone. Boston had 19 wins the year before Bird, his rookie year they increased to 50 something. He took Indiana State to the title game. Heck the Bulls won 55 games one year without Jordan. Bird took a backseat to nobody . Bird was the ultimate bad ass.
That's just completely false. LeBron James is one of the five or ten best basketball minds we've ever seen.
I'll give you that Bird had more grit or whatever term you want to use, but that's also a product of the time, just like saying LeBron has more 3's doesn't necessarily make him a better shooter than Bird.
You can even argue that Bird is equal/slightly superior in IQ, he's top 5-10 all time in that category too. But to say LeBron wins on sheer gifts is insane. Josh Smith is LeBron James without the skills and IQ.
Listen to the guy talk about specific plays in postgame interviews. He remembers and describes like 9 consecutive possessions in detail with where everyone was, what happened, what he was thinking, what he should have done, etc.
He's prodigious in that regard, always has been. That's why his hype was so insane. We see physical freaks pretty often. They just don't have the combination of size, skill, and IQ that LeBron has.
I think LeBron and Magic had better anticipation and playmaking skills than Bird, but I also think they had better handles, so that skews it a bit since that's part of it.
I also think Jordan was gifted at seeing things before they happened or knowing the right play. But more than the other three guys, the right play for Jordan was to take on three defenders and shoot a fadeaway 22 footer. His defensive reactions and instincts were as good as anyone's, he just also had unreal physical gifts to use with them.
To even imply that LBJ isn't one of, if not the best player ever is silly. Put your hate aside. He's a once in a lifetime type athlete.
So then how is Bird winning games then? His jumping ability? I'm not saying Lebron is some dummy. He's not. But he's certainly using his god given gifts to help win him games. Bird isn't in the league if not for his mind.
I said from the start that Bird had a higher basketball IQ and just an overall greater brain, so I'm confused.
Larry bird was a bad man!
A date which will live in infamy.
Bird broke down at the end of his career. Therefore his numbers are lower than they would have been. Had LeBron played with McHale and Parrish he would have less numbers.
End of career stats include a period of the player breaking down. You can't compare end of career stats to current player stats that has not broken down.
If your comparing basketball iQ’s it’s not even close. Bird forgot more than LeBron ever knew.
LeBron is a complaining whiner. I have nothing against LeBron really. Both couldn’t stop each other one on one. So give me the man who shoots better and passes better. BIRD
LeBron is a complaining whiner. I have nothing against LeBron really. Both couldn’t stop each other one on one. So give me the man who shoots better and passes better. BIRD
You are young so I'll be nice.
It is laughable to think LeBron James is the best player ever. He may wind up having the greatest longevity.
We probably shouldn't compare players from different eras. The NBA is very watered-down from what it was.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
By the way California Chrome is superior to Secretariat. Better athlete.
Larry Legend. Grateful that I got to see Bird at his best. Nothing like the Celtic/Laker duels in the 80s. Bird and Magic elevated the game to a different level.
You know, ADs growth spurt contributed greatly to where he is now. He developed "guard" skills before he added all the physical attributes. If everything else remains the same, could you imagine a 6'10 Ulis?! If picking, we are all taking the 6'10 version.
all good points. birds anticipation imho is the best ever though. magic and lebron were faster and their athleticism (compared to bird) raises all aspects of their game. the same way it did for mj. they’re just better athletes. bird was playing with a smaller window to execute. so the romanticism comes from that i think. you ask, how does he do that? and that’s all it is. maybe anticipation is the wrong word for it. maybe it’s more vague and it’s his “craftiness”. but he made people look stupid and have to constantly be using their head to keep up. what buttresses that for bird’s greatness was his will to win which most people put near mj’s level. which is the highest.
And here it is the old my era was better then your era post
The NBA now takes the best players from all over the world
The players today are more bigger, faster and more skilled today then they were back in the eighties... how many seven footers were shooting threes back then??
You are doing the same thing with the younger is better.
Please watch the video of Birds passing and tell me who is more skilled in passing today.
More skilled oh my God.
There is no use having this argument because different eras are different.
LeBron is number one or two in the last 20 years.
Nobody had better anticipation than Bird. Bird was playing chess and everyone else was playing checkers.
Saying eras are different is fine but you said the league was more watered down today then back then which is just not true
And overall yes today’s players are more skilled..yes Larry Bird is one of the most skilled players of all time that’s why he is in the top 10 of greatest NBA players ever...but overall the players today can do more than the players back then
Do you realize every time a team is added to the NBA there are players playing who would not have played. That waters down the league.
And as far as skills go your way off base. I watched both Generations
Bird's athleticism was way underrated. He was plenty good in that department. His basketball IQ and court vision were off the charts. His outside shot was phenomenal. One of the top 5 of all time in his prime.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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What made him so great was that by looking at him, one thought he couldn't play. However, he was probably the most intelligent player I had ever seen.
You can make arguments for Bird being as good as Lebron, but Jordan is a level above them both. Jordan had no weaknesses. None. He could do anything Bird could do, and could do most of them better. Bird himself said Jordan's the best player he's ever seen. We all know about his offense, but people forget that he made the First Team Defensive All NBA 9 times. He was also the League Defensive MVP in 1988.
You see, Larry Bird is white so naturally he’s smarter than all the black guys. At least that’s what I pick up from this
Do you realize that the pool for nba players today are bigger then it was back then?? Before the dream team there was only 24 international players from 18 different countries. Before this NBA season there are over one hundred nba players from overseas and 42 different countries.
The AAU system is bigger then it ever was before allowing more talented players to be found then before. Yes there are more teams today then back then but like I said the pool of nba players are also bigger today then it ever was..
I think there's something to this. "Bird is probably the best white player ever." I've heard so many people point this out. There's a reason for that, and it's so dumb. Lebron and Jordan have unparalleled basketball IQ's. Jordan was well known not only for his on-court IQ, but also for his cerebral warfare.
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Racist like Kareem saying Bird was incredibly gifted with basketball IQ. Kareem hated black people.
Do you remember the 87 season when Bird and Jordan would play against each other?
You saw all those games right?
Incredibly stupid.
Yes I did. Very early in his career. Hadn't become all-universe yet.
Wait.....Boobies. Boobies. Boobies.
Agree to disagree man. Whether Jordan is better than LeBron is up for debate, always will be. But to not even consider him as possibly the best ever? That's silly. No one has ever dominated people the way he does. And I can't stand the guy.
Jordan had to wait for the old guys to break down before he took over. It may hurt some of you younger guys but that's the truth.
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