Happy Birthday Larry Bird...the GOAT imo.

[GonzoCat90]

So then how is Bird winning games then? His jumping ability? I'm not saying Lebron is some dummy. He's not. But he's certainly using his god given gifts to help win him games. Bird isn't in the league if not for his mind.

I said from the start that Bird had a higher basketball IQ and just an overall greater brain, so I'm confused.

Because he's Larry Bird and that's really really good. He was 6'9, could score from anywhere on the court, rebounded well, was an amazing passer, great defender and had one of the best IQ's in the history of the game.

But LeBron's IQ is better *and* he has better physical gifts which is why he's a better player. It's lazy and dismissive to just credit one part of what either guy did.

It's like the people who say Cal is a great recruiter but can't coach. It's an attempt at some weird compromise but it's insulting and inaccurate.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Agree to disagree man. Whether Jordan is better than LeBron is up for debate, always will be. But to not even consider him as possibly the best ever? That's silly. No one has ever dominated people the way he does. And I can't stand the guy.

Bill Russell has 11 rings, Wilt averaged 50, Jordan averaged 37, others have done more.

LeBron is the best player since you've been watching. He is not the best player since I've been watching. I'm older. You may see players after I'm gone far better than both. I saw LeBron, I saw Bird. One may look like a killer but the other one is the Killer.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

Jordan had to wait for the old guys to break down before he took over. It may hurt some of you younger guys but that's the truth.

I'm in my 40's FWIW. The old guys breaking down argument can be made for any superstar. Jordan played against many HOF titans, who were in their primes.

 

[uky8unc5]

I'm Old. But I'm smart enough to know athletes have improved.
But do not EVER suggest Bird ranks behind any PLAYER in today's game.
If you say it, you never saw Larry PLAY.

 

[MbergCat]

Bill Russell has 11 rings, Wilt averaged 50, Jordan averaged 37, others have done more.

LeBron is the best player since you've been watching. He is not the best player since I've been watching. I'm older. You may see players after I'm gone far better than both. I saw LeBron, I saw Bird. One may look like a killer but the other one is the Killer.

I've been watching since mid 90's with Jordan. I'll stand by my opinion, but I respect yours as well.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I saw Jordan and I saw LeBron if we're going to argue that. LeBron's in trouble I mean really in trouble.

 

[CrustyCat]

The Goat of what ? He is a top 10 player sure but no where near Jordan , Lebron , Russell IMO .

That has to mean you haven't seen him play. If you have seen him play and still hold this view, then you don't know basketball well or at all, and certainly have no real perspective over a meaningful amount of time.

By the way, Bird owned Jordan when they played each other - Jordan at the relative beginning of his career, Bird at the end of his when his body was breaking down. Head-to-head, Bird kicked Jordan's ass.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

Larry Bird was an assassin.

 

[Pizza Slice]

I loved LeBron when he first came into the league but he's turned into a total diva. He also gets away with more stiff arms driving to the basket and Walks than any other player in history. He also plays 0 defense now outside of the occasional chase down block. Bird is better than LeBron overall. IMO LeBron is a top 5 player of all time but not top 3. Also I think Shaq should be included in every top 10 player of all time. If the only way of stopping you is fouling you then you are a top 10 player. In his prime he was unguardable.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

That has to mean you haven't seen him play. If you have seen him play and still hold this view, then you don't know basketball well or at all, and certainly have no real perspective over a meaningful amount of time.

By the way, Bird owned Jordan when they played each other - Jordan at the relative beginning of his career, Bird at the end of his when his body was breaking down. Head-to-head, Bird kicked Jordan's ass.

That's an exaggeration. Jordan regularly torched Bird too, and once for 65 points. Wilkins torched Bird too.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Yeah the game Jordan scored 63 the Celtics were so disappointed with their Victory afterwards

 

[ZenCatFan73]

Yeah the game Jordan scored 63 the Celtics were so disappointed with their Victory afterwards

The Celtics were the better team, of course, but the guy said head-to-head Bird kicked Jordan's ass, which is a little hyperbolic. I'm saying in their primes, Jordan was better. Bird is not the greatest of all time as the OP is asserting.

 

[TeoJ]

You gotta love people put out their opinions as fact.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

You gotta love people put out their opinions as fact.

I'm putting my opinion as my opinion. Nothing more.

@the nail at the foul line is a good poster. Mutual respect.

 

[HoldMyBeer]

1. Today isn't Birds Birthday.

2. You can't be the GOAT if it's debatable if you're even the best player in your franchise history.

3. Anybody putting Bird on the level of MJ, Lebron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem need their heads examined. He's not that much better than Paul Pierce (pierce more pts & higher shooting %).

There's a huge elephant in the room that's making some of you type ridiculous things like "Bird can do everything Lebron can do...". Really?

 

[Elliott Tim]

Probably the GOAT Basketball brain/IQ.. If you were to build the greatest player, you're going to use Larry's mind and probably his heart too..

Best friends ever!

 

[TeoJ]

Bird and Chuck Person two of the biggest trash talkers ever.Celtics and Pacers playing on Christmas day a few years ago.
They had been going at it the whole game,Bird comes across mid court and launches a three and turns and looks at the Pacer bench(Person was on bench)and says Merry Christmas boys........the ball was half way to the goal.When the ball went thru the net Persons team mate said it was the only time he had ever seen him speechless.

 

[Soupbean]

I love Bird and hate Lebron. That said, shooting was the only thing Bird did better than Lebron.

Other than passing, and rebounding just as well your right. Remember back then you didn't get an assist for dribbling twice and kicking out to a spot up shooter.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

Bird and Chuck Person two of the biggest trash talkers ever.Celtics and Pacers playing on Christmas day a few years ago.
They had been going at it the whole game,Bird comes across mid court and launches a three and turns and looks at the Pacer bench(Person was on bench)and says Merry Christmas boys........the ball was half way to the goal.When the ball went thru the net Persons team mate said it was the only time he had ever seen him speechless.

I remember this. Awesome.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Because he's Larry Bird and that's really really good. He was 6'9, could score from anywhere on the court, rebounded well, was an amazing passer, great defender and had one of the best IQ's in the history of the game.

But LeBron's IQ is better *and* he has better physical gifts which is why he's a better player. It's lazy and dismissive to just credit one part of what either guy did.

It's like the people who say Cal is a great recruiter but can't coach. It's an attempt at some weird compromise but it's insulting and inaccurate.

I'm not sure you're going to get anyone to say that Lebron has a better basketball IQ than Bird, but OK.

And, yet again, I'm not saying Lebron is some dummy. If you're a top50 player of all time, you're not an idiot of the game. But the fact remains that no matter if Bird was 6'9, he did not have NEAR the physical tools that not ONLY Lebron had, but many others around him had. Bird didn;t become a top10 player of all time because of his muscles, legs or strength.

I'll concede that maybe it's MORE than just his brain that made him grea.. maybe it was fire too. But I said that from the beginning as well.. WHat's in his chest and what's in his brain.. that's why he's top10.

Not to mention injuries.. Bron already has what, 2-3 more seasons than Bird?

 

[USSLair]

To even imply that LBJ isn't one of, if not the best player ever is silly. Put your hate aside. He's a once in a lifetime type athlete.

Maybe. But not in my playbook. He's a whiny loser. Overrated hack who will jump to any team. The Stu gotz is strong in me.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

1. Today isn't Birds Birthday.

2. You can't be the GOAT if it's debatable if you're even the best player in your franchise history.

3. Anybody putting Bird on the level of MJ, Lebron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem need their heads examined. He's not that much better than Paul Pierce (pierce more pts & higher shooting %).

There's a huge elephant in the room that's making some of you type ridiculous things like "Bird can do everything Lebron can do...". Really?

This is Michael Scott level.

 

[HoldMyBeer]

This is Michael Scott level.

More like JP Scott.

 

[nmbr1uk]

His birthday is December 7th. I know because he shares the same birthday as my Dad and Johnny Bench.

Dec7th 1941 has a familiar tone also...lol

 

[Kubballfan]

I read about 30 posts before I decided to post back.

There are a few truly elite players in the modern era . Jordan, Kobi, The Mailman, Durant and the like who could be mentioned in a conversation about the GOAT in the NBA.

NONE OF THEM ARE/WAS AS GREAT AS LARRY LEGEND. To make that argument is foolish.

The others on the list had holes in their game. He had none. Great defender, rebounder and scorer.

Those who suggest others are probably too young to appreciate Larry Bird as the GOAT.

It’s OK to be young. It’s NOT OK to be stupid.

 

[Cawood86]

If I am starting a team, he is my 1st pick without even a hint of a doubt. Shooter, passer, and rebounder. Made everyone on his team better. Played in the most competitive era of the NBA with many very, very good teams and was the best player of that era.
Grown man era. Magic's lakers, Thomas and the Bad Boys, Dr. J and the Sixers, Young Jordan and the Bulls, and Dominique and the Hawks and others.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

I read about 30 posts before I decided to post back.

There are a few truly elite players in the modern era . Jordan, Kobi, The Mailman, Durant and the like who could be mentioned in a conversation about the GOAT in the NBA.

NONE OF THEM ARE/WAS AS GREAT AS LARRY LEGEND. To make that argument is foolish.

The others on the list had holes in their game. He had none. Great defender, rebounder and scorer.

Those who suggest others are probably too young to appreciate Larry Bird as the GOAT.

It’s OK to be young. It’s NOT OK to be stupid.

That's nice. Calling people stupid because they don't share your opinion? I'm not too young, and in my opinion, Bird might not even be the greatest Celtic ever, let alone the greatest player ever. Also, there were no holes in Jordan's game.

 

[Estil]

I've said this before at least on other forums but how did we get this GOAT acronym? I thought in sports a goat (at least traditionally) was a player who committed a key blunder that was perceived (rightly or wrongly) as costing his team a championship or at least a playoff spot/win. You know, like Bill Buckner's ball through the legs? Scott Norwood's missed field goal? Charlie Brown on several occasions?

PS: As far as greatest b-ball player in history, my vote goes to Wilt Chamberlain...he at one time held nearly every record you could think of, basically like Wayne Gretzky in hockey. Did you know early in his career he actually considered quitting basketball because he was tired of other teams 4x or even 5x-ing him and it made the game no fun? I bet even Jordan wasn't 4x-5x teamed nearly that much, at least in his pre-1991 days.

 

[Pulaski Cat Fan]

1. Today isn't Birds Birthday.

2. You can't be the GOAT if it's debatable if you're even the best player in your franchise history.

3. Anybody putting Bird on the level of MJ, Lebron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem need their heads examined. He's not that much better than Paul Pierce (pierce more pts & higher shooting %).

There's a huge elephant in the room that's making some of you type ridiculous things like "Bird can do everything Lebron can do...". Really?

You lost all credibility when you said Bird wasn't much better than Paul Pierce. If you really believe that, then that's just way off.

 

[ipatent]

Wilt was the GOAT, IMHO.

 

[HoldMyBeer]

You lost all credibility when you said Bird wasn't much better than Paul Pierce. If you really believe that, then that's just way off.

I'm just using stats my man. I look at the numbers and nothing says "OMG, bird was soooo much better than Pierce (a player I wouldn't even rank in the top 75 alltime let alone GREATEST OF ALL TIME)." Especially when Birds most notable attributes are scoring & shooting , while Pierce has more points and has the higher shooting %.

"Paul Pierce is the greatest Offensive player in Celtics history" - Robert Parish

 

[TeoJ]

Cornbread Maxwell when he first saw Bird thought this will be easy,then Bird blocked his shot and he said it went down hill from their.The first game they played another team,they ask cornbread how over rated is this guy.He was going to let them find out them selves.

 

[Bluegrass79]

The greatest white player that ever existed on planet Earth is what Larry Bird is. Did you not watch the video above? Larry is king. He took Indiana freaking State University to the NCAA final in 1979...I mean to me that's unbelievable. Who the hell has ever taken a tiny mid major all the way through by themselves? Hell Indiana state hasn't done shite since 1979 lol. Greatest will to win of any player who ever lived. Bar none. You ALWAYS had a chance with Bird. Always!

 

[Wall2Wall]

Bird broke down at the end of his career. Therefore his numbers are lower than they would have been. Had LeBron played with McHale and Parrish he would have less numbers.

End of career stats include a period of the player breaking down. You can't compare end of career stats to current player stats that has not broken down.

Just because LeBron isn't finished doesn't make comparing statistics wrong, just incomplete. It's what we have to work with for now. You seem to have an overall bias against LeBron, and that's ok. Your argument that had LeBron played with better players his numbers would have suffered is probably true. He would certainly have more rings. I would counter that by saying LeBron was great enough to drag scrubs like Mo Williams, Daniel Gibson, Matthew Dellavadova, Dahntay Jones, and many others to the playoff finals.

It's also not all about stats. I merely posted both players career stats to show their levels of eliteness and that they both deserve to be in the discussion of greatest players to ever live. That seems to be getting lost in your hatred for LeBron.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Yeah, calling a guy the best or second best player of the last twenty years is showing hatred.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I'm just using stats my man.

"Paul Pierce is the greatest Offensive player in Celtics history" - Robert Parish

I know you don't realize this but you now have zero credibility. Bird at his peak was 29/10/7 while winning 67 games in a league with Magic, Jordan, Kareem. When did Pierce do that?

The two winningest superstars are Bird and Magic. Magic is ahead but Bird was ahead before he broke down and Magic played with Kareem.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

I would say he is top 5 for sure and you can make an argument he is the best ever. He probably hit more game winning shots that any player in history. Anybody that can play a whole game left handed and still score 27 just because you're bored has to be one of the best ever.

Lmao.......no he's not the GOAT... or "Top 5 for sure".

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

What makes Bird's IQ and brain superior to Jordan's or Magic's or LeBron's or any other all-time elite?

Incredible player though. His old tapes are so much fun to watch. He was brutal when he knew he had you. All-time trash talker. Shame injuries cut him short.

He was slower and didn't jump as high. So it makes him seem "smarter".

 

[king of cali]

I'm just using stats my man. I look at the numbers and nothing says "OMG, bird was soooo much better than Pierce (a player I wouldn't even rank in the top 75 alltime let alone GREATEST OF ALL TIME)." Especially when Birds most notable attributes are scoring & shooting , while Pierce has more points and has the higher shooting %.

"Paul Pierce is the greatest Offensive player in Celtics history" - Robert Parish

That’s why you just don’t use stats. No person would put Bird and Pierce in the same stratosphere as basketball players despite Pierce scoring more points because he played longer. Bird had a higher average with better shooting, and significantly better rebounding and passing. It really ain’t even close.

 

[KeepingItReal74]

The fact that you know so little about basketball is bothersome.

Incorrect. Lebron has highlights. Bird was consistently playing to win. His understanding of the game was by far better than LJ.