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Finals: BigBlueFanGA vs. JHannibalSmith

Who would win head to head


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

DraftCat

Senior
Nov 5, 2011
5,785
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Welcome to the 2021 NBA All-Time NBA Draft. The objective of the draft was to draft a team that will beat your opponent in a best of 7 games.

Finals will last for two days. Voters please vote for the team you believe would win. You will be able to change your vote if the discussion sways you the other way.


@BigBlueFanGA - Wilt Chamberlain, Anthony Davis, Chris Paul, Ray Allen, Alex English, Damian Lillard, Bernard King, Devin Booker, Dan Issel, Hal Greer, HC Lenny Wilkens

vs.

@JHannibalSmith - Larry Bird, David Robinson, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Chris Mullin, Gary Payton, Pete Maravich, Pau Gasol, Willis Reed, Jimmy Butler, Mark Price, HC Don Nelson
 
STARTERS

PG Gary Payton 6-4
SG Chris Mullin 6-6
SF Giannis Antetokounmpo 6-11
PF Larry Bird 6-9
C David Robinson 7-1

BENCH

PG Mark Price 6-0
SG Pete Maravich 6-5
SF Jimmy Butler 6-7
PF Willis Reed 6-9
C Pau Gasol 7-0

DEPTH CHART

PG Payton, Price, Giannis, Maravich
SG Mullin, Maravich, Butler, Giannis
SF Giannis, Butler, Bird, Mullin, Maravich
PF Bird, Reed, Giannis, Gasol
C Robinson, Gasol, Reed, Bird (small ball)
 
Your starting lineup would be LETHAL. Like, there’s no weakness. Possibly the best starting lineup I’ve ever seen in our all time drafts. Good work.

I appreciate it, man. I thought this team matched up pretty well with Wilt & AD bc nobody is gonna shut them down but Giannis is as well equipped as anyone to guard AD & also pull him away from the basket on the other end to help negate him there, too. And, Robinson wouldn’t be dominated by Wilt. That would be a great battle, IMO. The backcourt is a wash, IMO. But, English would have to guard Bird & that would be an extremely tall order for a guy who was defensively challenged. I think that matchup is the difference. Bird greatly impacted games in every way imaginable & having a weak defender guarding him would be series/game altering.
 
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Not going to vote just yet (I likely will sometime before the deadline if I remember to lol) since I want to give BigBlueFan a chance to go over his lineup and add things I may not say, but since my post admitting my wrongdoings in the other thread was well received, I'll comment on the teams...

PG: I think JHannibal's guys compliment one another very well. Payton is one of the best defensive point guards of all-time and could certainly score the ball some even if three point shooting wasn't his greatest strength. Price wasn't a great defender, but was a very good initiator and deadly outside shooter. Chris Paul is one of the better two-way point guards to play. Great ball handler, distributor, defender, outside shooter. Lillard's not a great defender, but he can take over a game when he gets hot.

SG: Mullin and Maravich are both great scorers, but far from the best defenders. That description fits both Ray Allen and Devin Booker as well. Hal Greer, I'm not entirely sure whether to put him in the shooting guard or point guard spot. I decided to put him in the shooting guard spot since he seemed to be more of a scorer, although he could be utilized as a secondary ball handler and had more of a point guard's body. Excellent player from back in the 60s who shouldn't be slept on.

SF: Giannis is being put as a small forward. That's fine. I consider him a positionless player. By 'positionless', I mean you don't have to confine him to any one position. You can also use him at either guard spot, the '4' spot or even as a 'small ball' center. About the only thing he doesn't do really well is shoot the ball from the outside, so it's a testament to him that he dominates despite of not being a prolific outside shooter. Butler is one of those athletic '3 and D' wings who obviously fits the modern game very well. I'm not sure what's happened to his outside shot recently, but he's been a strong shooter in the past. Alex English and Bernard King weren't as good on the defensive end as Giannis and Butler are, and both were a little like Giannis in that they weren't wonderful outside shooters, but they were walking buckets who could go out and get 30 or 40 in a game easily.

PF: Bird is being listed in this spot, but obviously I'd assume he'll play some at the '3' spot as well. I don't have to say a lot about him. He was a two-way force without a weakness in his game at his peak. Everyone's rankings can differ, but at worst, he's one of the top 10 players in NBA history. Having him as a small ball center is an interesting idea since I said Giannis could be one. I didn't think about Bird in the role, but I like the idea since he has the range to draw big guys away from the basket.

PF/C: I know Willis Reed is being listed at power forward, but he's interchangeable to me. Regardless, he was a terrific rebounder, defender and scorer at his best. Also a very tough player as Game 7 of the 1970 Finals can attest to. Pau Gasol, Dan Issel and AD are also interchangeable to me, so they're being put in this category along with Willis. Gasol really found his niche as the #2 guy with the Lakers complimenting Kobe. He can just be a strong defender/rebounder to provide some resistance against Wilt/AD/Issel and score when necessary on JHannibal's team. We're all Dan Issel fans on this board. His best pro years came in the ABA, but he was still a very productive player with the Nuggets into his mid-30s. Like going to the Lakers and teaming up with Kobe did wonders for Gasol, it's done the same for AD teaming up with LeBron in LaLa Land. He's still the same excellent two-way player, but he undoubtedly feels far less pressure to have to do everything in L.A. as I'm sure he felt he had to do with the Pelicans.

C: Now the true centers, Wilt and 'The Admiral.' In terms of statistical dominance, you could make a very strong case that Wilt is the NBA's all-time king in that regard. Nobody put up the point/rebound totals he did for a 5 or 6 year stretch. They even widened the painted area to try and make it harder for him, but he was still an unstoppable force. Outside of Bill Russell, very few could hold their own against Wilt. I think some people forget that he was also an underrated passer, averaging as many as 8.6 assists per season once. David Robinson was one of my favorites growing up, and obviously one of the best centers and players of the 1990s. He's not on Wilt's level, but had a strong all-around game of his own and certainly wouldn't back down against Wilt.
 
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Not going to vote just yet (I likely will sometime before the deadline if I remember to lol) since I want to give BigBlueFan a chance to go over his lineup and add things I may not say, but since my post admitting my wrongdoings in the other thread was well received, I'll comment on the teams...

PG: I think JHannibal's guys compliment one another very well. Payton is one of the best defensive point guards of all-time and could certainly score the ball some even if three point shooting wasn't his greatest strength. Price wasn't a great defender, but was a very good initiator and deadly outside shooter. Chris Paul is one of the better two-way point guards to play. Great ball handler, distributor, defender, outside shooter. Lillard's not a great defender, but he can take over a game when he gets hot.

SG: Mullin and Maravich are both great scorers, but far from the best defenders. That description fits both Ray Allen and Devin Booker as well. Hal Greer, I'm not entirely sure whether to put him in the shooting guard or point guard spot. I decided to put him in the shooting guard spot since he seemed to be more of a scorer, although he could be utilized as a secondary ball handler and had more of a point guard's body. Excellent player from back in the 60s who shouldn't be slept on.

SF: Giannis is being put as a small forward. That's fine. I consider him a positionless player. By 'positionless', I mean you don't have to confine him to any one position. You can also use him at either guard spot, the '4' spot or even as a 'small ball' center. About the only thing he doesn't do really well is shoot the ball from the outside, so it's a testament to him that he dominates despite of not being a prolific outside shooter. Butler is one of those athletic '3 and D' wings who obviously fits the modern game very well. I'm not sure what's happened to his outside shot recently, but he's been a strong shooter in the past. Alex English and Bernard King weren't as good on the defensive end as Giannis and Butler are, and both were a little like Giannis in that they weren't wonderful outside shooters, but they were walking buckets who could go out and get 30 or 40 in a game easily.

PF: Bird is being listed in this spot, but obviously I'd assume he'll play some at the '3' spot as well. I don't have to say a lot about him. He was a two-way force without a weakness in his game at his peak. Everyone's rankings can differ, but at worst, he's one of the top 10 players in NBA history. Having him as a small ball center is an interesting idea since I said Giannis could be one. I didn't think about Bird in the role, but I like the idea since he has the range to draw big guys away from the basket.

PF/C: I know Willis Reed is being listed at power forward, but he's interchangeable to me. Regardless, he was a terrific rebounder, defender and scorer at his best. Also a very tough player as Game 7 of the 1970 Finals can attest to. Pau Gasol, Dan Issel and AD are also interchangeable to me, so they're being put in this category along with Willis. Gasol really found his niche as the #2 guy with the Lakers complimenting Kobe. He can just be a strong defender/rebounder to provide some resistance against Wilt/AD/Issel and score when necessary on JHannibal's team. We're all Dan Issel fans on this board. His best pro years came in the ABA, but he was still a very productive player with the Nuggets into his mid-30s. Like going to the Lakers and teaming up with Kobe did wonders for Gasol, it's done the same for AD teaming up with LeBron in LaLa Land. He's still the same excellent two-way player, but he undoubtedly feels far less pressure to have to do everything in L.A. as I'm sure he felt he had to do with the Pelicans.

C: Now the true centers, Wilt and 'The Admiral.' In terms of statistical dominance, you could make a very strong case that Wilt is the NBA's all-time king in that regard. Nobody put up the point/rebound totals he did for a 5 or 6 year stretch. They even widened the painted area to try and make it harder for him, but he was still an unstoppable force. Outside of Bill Russell, very few could hold their own against Wilt. I think some people forget that he was also an underrated passer, averaging as many as 8.6 assists per season once. David Robinson was one of my favorites growing up, and obviously one of the best centers and players of the 1990s. He's not on Wilt's level, but had a strong all-around game of his own and certainly wouldn't back down against Wilt.

If you look at my depth chart I have those guys listed at all positions they are available to play. 7/10 play at least 2 positions so I can go 4 deep at each spot & match up with any lineup or style.
 
I want to hear some reasoning as to why GA has this big of a lead from some voters. No disrespect to his team, I just don’t understand it, aside from the UK factor.

I haven't voted yet, but I would say from an objective standpoint that I'd prefer BigBlueFan's trio of pure big guys. No disrespect intended to the trio of Willis Reed/David Robinson/Pau Gasol, of course. The guard play you could also give him an edge. Although it's close, and maybe I like Hal Greer more than some. Then with the guards you know are strong defensively, Chris Paul provides more as an outside shooter than Gary Payton even though I'm more biased towards Payton if I had to make up a 'favorite players' list. If it came down to it, I'd likely vote for JHannibal's squad just because I think it has more versatility as well as the two-way wings that are a bit more suited for today's style. But it's a good matchup, and I'd at least agree the voting should be close.

As for me, I think I learned two things for future reference if there is another all-time NBA Draft and I participate. Fewer guys from the 50s and 60s unless they're very well known (i.e. Russell, Chamberlain, Oscar), and maybe one or two guys who played at UK could get me more votes 😁
 
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I haven't voted yet, but I would say from an objective standpoint that I'd prefer BigBlueFan's trio of pure big guys. No disrespect intended to the trio of Willis Reed/David Robinson/Pau Gasol, of course. The guard play you could also give him an edge. Although it's close, and maybe I like Hal Greer more than some. Then with the guards you know are strong defensively, Chris Paul provides more as an outside shooter than Gary Payton even though I'm more biased towards Payton if I had to make up a 'favorite players' list. If it came down to it, I'd likely vote for JHannibal's squad just because I think it has more versatility as well as the two-way wings that are a bit more suited for today's style. But it's a good matchup, and I'd at least agree the voting should be close.

As for me, I think I learned two things for future reference if there is another all-time NBA Draft and I participate. Fewer guys from the 50s and 60s unless they're very well known (i.e. Russell, Chamberlain, Oscar), and maybe one or two guys who played at UK could get me more votes 😁

That’s where I screw myself but I’m ok with it. I pretty much do these drafts for my own satisfaction & don’t worry about voting like I should. I always try for the best TEAM possible & won’t compromise it just to stick a UK player in there for votes. And, I’m not insinuating that anybody did that. @BigBlueFanGA has 3 UK players but at least two of them are legit & would be drafted in these things 99.999% of the time so he didn’t just load up on locals for votes. Booker, maybe, lol. But, they are the difference, IMO. His team is definitely good enough to win this & I don’t mean to suggest otherwise. In fact, I knew he’d be a favorite after his 2nd pick. He did a great job building his team from the inside out. But, in real life this is a 7th game type of outcome, IMO. The current score is indicative of a sweep & that’s the only thing that bothers me about it. And, like I said earlier, I say the same thing when I’m on the other end of questionable blowouts, too. I won my 2nd round game 21-9 & that was ridiculous, too. But, it is what it is.
 
I always try for the best TEAM possible & won’t compromise it just to stick a UK player in there for votes.

I actually considered drafting Karl Anthony-Towns with my very last pick rather than Dave Cowens. No, I don't think taking Towns would have helped me win, but I thought about it as a have more fun with it thing rather than taking who I thought was the historically best big guy still available than anything else. Since Booker got drafted, Towns isn't really a stretch by the same standard. Like you, I wasn't going to draft a UK guy just to draft a UK guy, but as a backup big man with my last pick who would have been the fourth big on the team behind Russell/Olajuwon/Jerry Lucas, I don't think it would have been compromising my entire team.
 
Yes, congrats @BigBlueFanGA. Wilt & AD is a ridiculous front court duo; nice job on your team.
Thanks, your team was stacked. I really didn't pick those 3 because of their UK ties, they fit what I was wanting and their ties were a bonus.

I do need to apologize though. Part of the fun of these is the banter and bickering but in each draft I've been in, the more I talked the worse I did. It happened again against @Cowtown Cat. So I figured if I had a lead, I was better off shutting up.

I dont feel great about doing that but its nice to win one for a change. All the teams were so close. It was a good draft.

Now, on to baseball.
 
Yeah. Solid job. I wish BigBlueFan would have posted an explanation for his team just to make it a bit more fun this round, but I won't hold it against him since maybe he didn't have the time for it. And solid job by JHannibal in coming in second after I think he won the football draft if I remember that correctly.
I have been crazy busy, trying to be a good uncle and go to my little nieces (8&10) softball games last night and tonight.
 
Thanks, your team was stacked. I really didn't pick those 3 because of their UK ties, they fit what I was wanting and their ties were a bonus.

I do need to apologize though. Part of the fun of these is the banter and bickering but in each draft I've been in, the more I talked the worse I did. It happened again against @Cowtown Cat. So I figured if I had a lead, I was better off shutting up.

I dont feel great about doing that but its nice to win one for a change. All the teams were so close. It was a good draft.

Now, on to baseball.

I know you didn’t pick them just for votes. That’s why I mentioned it in the other post. I wanted to be clear that I wasn’t accusing you of that. Sorry if it came off that way. AD & Issel would/should be drafted every time & both fit perfectly with your team. Booker is fringe but he’s not a throwaway pick by any means & he does fit well, too. I would’ve tried harder on the conversation part but I was down 10 within a few hours & I knew I wasn’t gonna change anything. You had a great PG & lots of shooting to put around Wilt & AD. Your team was good enough to win with or without Issel & Booker.
 
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Yeah. Solid job. I wish BigBlueFan would have posted an explanation for his team just to make it a bit more fun this round, but I won't hold it against him since maybe he didn't have the time for it. And solid job by JHannibal in coming in second after I think he won the football draft if I remember that correctly.

Yes, back to back would’ve been sweet. But, then @BigBlueFanGA had to ruin EVERYTHING!! 🤬😂
 
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