Clay: John Calipari’s critics get more fuel from USA U19 loss to Canada

[bucsrule8872]

Current college coaches with more titles than Cal:

K- 5
Williams- 3
Pitino- 2

All three coaches have at least 10 years on Cal. All three have been at major programs most of their careers. Compare Duke, KU/UNC, and UK/UofL to UMass/Memphis.

Also, consider that all three have allegations of cheating from those titles. K has issues that have been swept under the rug. Williams has the academic scandal that should lead to at least two banners coming down (but won't). Pitino is about to lose his UofL banner to Stripper Gate.

Current coaches with the same amount of titles:

Smith
Izzo
Boeheim
Self
Ollie
Wright

Cal has more FF's than all of those guys, except Izzo.

Boeheim has been coaching longer (and has his own scandal).

Smith has failed to do anything substantial after his lone title 20 years ago.

Self has been to one Final Four since his lone Final Four, and it's been a decade.

Izzo has been pretty good at getting to FF's, but his one title came almost 20 years ago.

Ollie has not looked very good since Calhoun distanced himself from the program and Calhoun's players left.

Wright is good coach, but it's yet to be seen if he can replicate that performance.

It is just not easy to win a title, especially when you aren't cheating.

Only 10 active coaches with a title. Four of them are close to retiring (K, Williams, Pitino, and Boeheim). Three of those four coaches have been responsible for six of the last nine titles.

I can't think of anyone else I would rather have running the show right now. Only guys who you can make a logical argument for are K and Williams, and they are on their last legs.

 

[Catman100]

You're gonna have to list them. And since he's 26-6 in the NCAA Tournament at Kentucky, you've got an uphill battle on the "many times" part. Unless you're one of those who only count games lost as "big games".....

2010 WVU
2011 Uconn
2013 Uconn
2014 Wisconsin
2015 IU

Of those 5 did he not have more talent than the other team in every single one of those games? Maybe not against IU, but can you honestly say we should not have won the rest?

Look I'm not trying to be anti coach cal, I cant think of anybody better, but to say you cant question some of his coaching results is definitely being a blue blooded homer.

 

[Hoopcatjc]

Cal deserves all the criticism he's gonna get for losing with that team. Between the USA and Canada rosters the US team still had 13 of the top probably 17 players.

I'm not so sure. Cal had 3 weeks to put that team together and this was far from the best under 19 roster that team USA could have fielded. No way we lose with Jayson Tatum,
Marvin Bagley, Markell Fultz.

 

[Hoopcatjc]

2010 WVU
2011 Uconn
2013 Uconn
2014 Wisconsin
2015 IU

Of those 5 did he not have more talent than the other team in every single one of those games? Maybe not against IU, but can you honestly say we should not have won the rest?

Look I'm not trying to be anti coach cal, I cant think of anybody better, but to say you cant question some of his coaching results is definitely being a blue blooded homer.

In the history of the NCAA tournament, how many times has the most talented team in the field won it all?
By the way, Kentucky was the most talented team in the country in 1984, 1986, 1997 and 2003.

 

[bucsrule8872]

2010 WVU
2011 Uconn
2013 Uconn
2014 Wisconsin
2015 IU

Of those 5 did he not have more talent than the other team in every single one of those games? Maybe not against IU, but can you honestly say we should not have won the rest?

Look I'm not trying to be anti coach cal, I cant think of anybody better, but to say you cant question some of his coaching results is definitely being a blue blooded homer.

Same can be said of other coaches. K lost early against Lehigh. Self repeatedly gets outcoached by low to mid-major coaches. Every coach gets outcoached from time to time. They are coaching 18-19 year olds. These are amateurs playing. They have bad games. These other kids practice everyday. Their coaches are smart and have good game plans. Sometimes teams with nothing to lose win because they play loose and play to win not to lose. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and it is easier to be the hunter than the hunted. All those clichés mean something.

 

[skcatfan]

2010 WVU
2011 Uconn
2013 Uconn
2014 Wisconsin
2015 IU

Of those 5 did he not have more talent than the other team in every single one of those games? Maybe not against IU, but can you honestly say we should not have won the rest?

Look I'm not trying to be anti coach cal, I cant think of anybody better, but to say you cant question some of his coaching results is definitely being a blue blooded homer.

Three of those losses came in the FF, one as a 4 seed and another as a 8 seed. The NCAA committee certainly didn't think UK was the most talented team either of those years. Despite that you're criticizing Cal because he was able to get those teams to play at a high level come tournament time and make a FF. Winning a title is so tough to do and I don't think people that are critical of Cal don't understand that. Just look at UNC this year for example. How many times were they bailed out by questionable calls to save their ass? You could make the argument if UK had received those kind of calls in the tournament under Cal he would already have at least 3 titles.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

It will go a long way towards shutting them up, which is my point. Needs a 2nd and will get a 2nd.

We are actually agreeing.

 

[Catman100]

Same can be said of other coaches. K lost early against Lehigh. Self repeatedly gets outcoached by low to mid-major coaches. Every coach gets outcoached from time to time. They are coaching 18-19 year olds. These are amateurs playing. They have bad games. These other kids practice everyday. Their coaches are smart and have good game plans. Sometimes teams with nothing to lose win because they play loose and play to win not to lose. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and it is easier to be the hunter than the hunted. All those clichés mean something.

And they deserve whatever criticism they get as well.

All I am saying is that in those 5 games listed, when they tipped it off, most of BBN thought we should win. In the same exact scenario I don't think Coach K goes 0 for 5.

Once again, a great recruiter, and I don't think anybody is better suited for UK right now, but not sure our season losses ended with most everybody thinking the other team had more talent than us.

 

[Hoopcatjc]

And they deserve whatever criticism they get as well.

All I am saying is that in those 5 games listed, when they tipped it off, most of BBN thought we should win. In the same exact scenario I don't think Coach K goes 0 for 5.

Once again, a great recruiter, and I don't think anybody is better suited for UK right now, but not sure our season losses ended with most everybody thinking the other team had more talent than us.

I bet Coach K has more 1st and second round upset losses than Cal in the past 8 seasons.

I will NEVER understand this argument. John Calipari has been to 4 final fours in his 8 seasons here. Everyone knows that once you get to a FF, it's pretty much a crap shoot. The increased media presence, the non-basketball venues, the pressure on the coaches and players. Cal is doing this with mostly Freshmen every year.

Let's not forget that it was 14 years since the last title when Cal put a trophy in the display case in '12. We have won 8 championships in over 100 years and that makes us second all-time. Our teams do not get to the FF 4 times in the last 8 years with anyone less than Coach Cal. How did K do this past year with a #1 recruiting class? I'm not buying the Duke HC as the best ever. Hell, he's not in the same league with Calipari.

 

[kydan64]

Everyone is missing the point; Cal is getting heat for losing the game. And he wouldn't have it any other way. Losing happens.

The US team was the most talented team, but they lost. In other words, the players on the floor for the US were outplayed, on this occasion, by a lesser-talented team and possibly out-coached to some degree. Yet, we don't hear any outcry about the players choking or blowing it, we only hear about Cal.

And, once again, Cal shows these kids that he has their backs. He has told us repeatedly that when his teams lose he wants the blame, and when they win he wants the players to have the credit. This is another example of him backing up his words. Are there ANY other top-tier coaches who would do this without scapegoating or making excuses? Maybe. Maybe not. When Cal deflects and absorbs the blame the kids notice, and like he has constantly said, "It's all about the kids."

 

[cawoodsct]

We are actually agreeing.

Good. You'll go far agreeing with me.

 

[nssdigitalchumps]

1) Read Kentucky message boards.
2) See someone has started a terrible thread about the sky falling after a pointless loss no one really cares about.
3) See opportunity to stir pot while people are still arguing about.
4) Have no real basis for stirring pot, but you are a journalist, so everyone will believe you because they don’t have the naive circulation you do.
5) Watch newspaper industry become more like the Internet while wondering why the business is sinking like a rock in the ocean.
6)Retire.

 

[dlh331]

2010 WVU
2011 Uconn
2013 Uconn
2014 Wisconsin
2015 IU

Of those 5 did he not have more talent than the other team in every single one of those games? Maybe not against IU, but can you honestly say we should not have won the rest?

Look I'm not trying to be anti coach cal, I cant think of anybody better, but to say you cant question some of his coaching results is definitely being a blue blooded homer.

FYI, your years are wrong

2013 UConn should be 2014
2014 Wisconsin should be 2015
2015 IU should be 2016

 

[kev69]

Honestly, even being a huge UK fan, I didn't care about U19's loss.

It means zero to me.

For whatever reason, basketball in the summer time just doesn't appeal to me.

When the leaves start to change, and the cool air blows in, I'll start getting fired up for hoops. At least I hope I do again. Burying my Mom tomorrow afternoon, but the final viewing this past Thursday was the hardest part. Tomorrow will be tough, but I think it will more of a celebration of her life now.

Go Cats!

 

[FrankUnderwood]

I bet Coach K has more 1st and second round upset losses than Cal in the past 8 seasons.

I will NEVER understand this argument. John Calipari has been to 4 final fours in his 8 seasons here. Everyone knows that once you get to a FF, it's pretty much a crap shoot. The increased media presence, the non-basketball venues, the pressure on the coaches and players. Cal is doing this with mostly Freshmen every year.

Let's not forget that it was 14 years since the last title when Cal put a trophy in the display case in '12. We have won 8 championships in over 100 years and that makes us second all-time. Our teams do not get to the FF 4 times in the last 8 years with anyone less than Coach Cal. How did K do this past year with a #1 recruiting class? I'm not buying the Duke HC as the best ever. Hell, he's not in the same league with Calipari.

You make very good and solid points. The other poster obviously has comprehension problems... as he just keeps
Saying the same illinformed thing over and over and over